One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[kkck]

What? Koby is clearly framed as well stronger than a rookie, which luffy was pre time skip. The only reason luffy had an impact during marineford is that one of the largest pirate armies in the planet had his back. Even considering kobys growth seen at water 7 it makes no sense to think he wouldn't grow past pre time skip Luffy over the timeskip. I wouldn't be surprised if helmepo can easily defeat one of the original pacifista at this point.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Honestly the only counter argument I'm seeing for Coby>>>>>Marineford Luffy is... "Because"

Let's bring up feats, evidence, context, etc...

 

[XXGenesis]

so Oda does this thing of foreshadowing and giving hype to characters. That fans can eat up and other fan that are more reserved about this hype pertaining to certain characters ridicule others for diving so deep into….Wellll Screw ya’ll LmL

Lol I was always one of those ppl holding out for hope. koby’s appearance Post TS had me impressed. As the story went on if became more and more clear Koby hadn’t become commander lv but gained a substantial boost

*Which I still had reservations about because he could have just easily received a power creep, for whatever creative reasoning Oda wants to give.

My perspective then on was there’s no way We weren’t going to see Koby start to ascend into the higher tiers before the manga was over. Or solidify himself as the future of the marines.

 

[Australopithecus]

Luffy did have haki pretimeskip so that a null argument. Luffy just didn't know what it was.

Pretimeskip Luffy was acknowledge as strong by people as well.

Give us feats that put him above Marineford Luffy.

I'm saying they are comparable, not that one is tiers above the other.

The issue that I see is Haki. I mean, the way Coby is now, he is definitely above preTS Luffy. Remember when Luffy had a hard time with Sentomaru because the latter had haki?

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 30, 2023, Original Post Date: Jul 30, 2023 ---

What? Koby is clearly framed as well stronger than a rookie, which luffy was pre time skip. The only reason luffy had an impact during marineford is that one of the largest pirate armies in the planet had his back. Even considering kobys growth seen at water 7 it makes no sense to think he wouldn't grow past pre time skip Luffy over the timeskip. I wouldn't be surprised if helmepo can easily defeat one of the original pacifista at this point.

Lol, I don't think so. I mean he couldn't even properly handle a canon ball hahaha

Edit: Upon further consideration, I have lost faith in Oda's ability to maintain consistency in this particular area

 

[Pirate Queen]

The issue that I see is Haki. I mean, the way Coby is now, he is definitely above preTS Luffy. Remember when Luffy had a hard time with Sentomaru because the latter had haki?

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 30, 2023, Original Post Date: Jul 30, 2023 ---

Lol, I don't think so. I mean he couldn't even properly handle a canon ball hahaha

Luffy beat 2 advanced CoA users on Amazon Lily. BOTH of Hancock's sisters. And Coby just now learned advanced CoA...

The arguments just aren't holding up

 

[Australopithecus]

Luffy beat 2 advanced CoA users on Amazon Lily. BOTH of Hancock's sisters. And Coby just now learned advanced CoA...

The arguments just aren't holding up

I understand the problem you're describing. When it comes to advanced CoA, I personally consider it to be the level displayed by Katakuri when he clashed against Luffy and caused him hand pain. However, it's true that the opponents you mentioned were also able to use CoA. The issue is that Luffy was able to overcome their CoA, but not when he fought against Sentomaru. From what I gather, Coby's current level must be higher than Sentomaru's, which means that fighting against pre-TS Luffy would likely work in Coby's favor.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I understand the problem you're describing. When it comes to advanced CoA, I personally consider it to be the level displayed by Katakuri when he clashed against Luffy and caused him hand pain. However, it's true that the opponents you mentioned were also able to use CoA. The issue is that Luffy was able to overcome their CoA, but not when he fought against Sentomaru. From what I gather, Coby's current level must be higher than Sentomaru's, which means that fighting against pre-TS Luffy would likely work in Coby's favor.

I do understand where your coming from. But Sentomaru is a seasoned haki user.

Coby used ACoA 1 time and it was pure luck. He had no idea how he utilized it exactly.

In a long 1v1 drawn out fight he isn't utilizing Honesty Impact freely in my opinion. And out of Honesty impact he's not using Haki with a greater master than 2 seasoned CoA Zoan users.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 30, 2023, Original Post Date: Jul 30, 2023 ---

I think Coby vs Marineford Luffy is an intriguing match up but I'm cleary in the minority.

I get power creep is the thing but I'm talking about both fighters on their merits and skill sets.

Coby hasn't shown anything Marineford Luffy cannot do with a combination of Gear2+3. Speed feats seem equivalent.

Coby would need to show endurance feats and some x fact because having a 1 really strong punch is not enough against Marineford Luffy.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I do understand where your coming from. But Sentomaru is a seasoned haki user.

Coby used ACoA 1 time and it was pure luck. He had no idea how he utilized it exactly.

In a long 1v1 drawn out fight he isn't utilizing Honesty Impact freely in my opinion. And out of Honesty impact he's not using Haki with a greater master than 2 seasoned CoA Zoan users.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 30, 2023, Original Post Date: Jul 30, 2023 ---

I think Coby vs Marineford Luffy is an intriguing match up but I'm cleary in the minority.

I get power creep is the thing but I'm talking about both fighters on their merits and skill sets.

Coby hasn't shown anything Marineford Luffy cannot do with a combination of Gear2+3. Speed feats seem equivalent.

Coby would need to show endurance feats and some x fact because having a 1 really strong punch is not enough against Marineford Luffy.

So you saying current Koby is like the pre-skip Smoker of the story?

Cuz that's what I'm saying

 

[Pirate Queen]

So you saying current Koby is like the pre-skip Smoker of the story?

Cuz that's what I'm saying

Well despite Luffy probably being able to take him. His seastone weapon and logia made it impossible for Luffy to beat him even in marineford. Coby is not so lucky

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Well despite Luffy probably being able to take him. His seastone weapon and logia made it impossible for Luffy to beat him even in marineford. Coby is not so lucky

I'm sure if it came down to it and it was life & death, Luffy would have beaten Smoker pre-skip (say post enies lobby). Once he knew about the seastone he can just avoid it like it's a sword. Only tricky part is overcoming the logia part but knowing Luffy I'm sure he probs would come up with something creative. I mean at the end of the day Smoker is kind of walking around with his own kryptonite

 

[I Am Atomic]

When it comes to advanced CoA, I personally consider it to be the level displayed by Katakuri when he clashed against Luffy and caused him hand pain.

That wasn't advanced CoA. Katakuri added mochi and hardened it, then added CoA to it. I mean that's what I thought he did by calling it Block Mochi (hence why it looks like a block).

 

[kkck]

Lol, I don't think so. I mean he couldn't even properly handle a canon ball hahaha

Edit: Upon further consideration, I have lost faith in Oda's ability to maintain consistency in this particular area

Welp, koby is clearly not meant to be an elizobello type character that throws one punch and is out. And helmepo has had incredible growth as well. Helmepo had about as good a showing as koby 2 years back and he is able to instantly cover massive distances with his geppo. He kept up with koby and prince as they moved to deal with pizarro's arm. BS or not, oda has made both koby and helmepo powerful enough to be present in this final stage of the manga.

 

[Fox666]

I'm sure if it came down to it and it was life & death, Luffy would have beaten Smoker pre-skip (say post enies lobby). Once he knew about the seastone he can just avoid it like it's a sword. Only tricky part is overcoming the logia part but knowing Luffy I'm sure he probs would come up with something creative. I mean at the end of the day Smoker is kind of walking around with his own kryptonite

The impression I had is that Smoker was keeping up with Luffy, plus the Logia intangibility.

Luffy did said he got stronger in Marineford, and Smoker managed to immobilize Luffy in Gear 2.

Welp, koby is clearly not meant to be an elizobello type character that throws one punch and is out. And helmepo has had incredible growth as well. Helmepo had about as good a showing as koby 2 years back and he is able to instantly cover massive distances with his geppo. He kept up with koby and prince as they moved to deal with pizarro's arm. BS or not, oda has made both koby and helmepo powerful enough to be present in this final stage of the manga.

No matter what stage of the story, Luffy has always been able to one-shot Koby.

Luffy did one-shot Koby in Marineford.

Is Koby now comparable to Luffy after Whole Cake Island? I don't think so. And if Kaido one-shot that Luffy, Emperor Luffy would do the same to Koby...

 

[kkck]

No matter what stage of the story, Luffy has always been able to one-shot Koby.

Luffy did one-shot Koby in Marineford.

Is Koby now comparable to Luffy after Whole Cake Island? I don't think so. And if Kaido one-shot that Luffy, Emperor Luffy would do the same to Koby...

I think there is something you aren't considering there: shenanigans. Yes, luffy was one shot by kaido following his victory over katakuri. BUT we know cladding is BS in regards to durability. Cladding is ultimately the most like culprit behind the yonko's apparently invulnerability. Evidenced by cladding being what ultimately leveled the playfield between luffy and kaido and also by big mom's durability disappearing when she despaired over caramel's picture. So if koby can use conqueror haki at will then odds are his durability will skyrocket. Not to yonko level but still a big boost for him. Even when luffy was at udon his survival of his confrontation with big mom was credited to hyoguro, a much weaker fighter than luffy, projecting his haki to defend them (even if against a presumably weakened big mom).

So... if koby can use cladding freely then yeah, odds are that under the right circumstances (that being the yonko not going all out) he can eat an attack from a yonko. My speculation here is that this is heading towards a rematch between luffy and koby in the imminent big war. And when they clash the skies will split (and koby gets overpowered after).

 

[Fox666]

I think there is something you aren't considering there: shenanigans. Yes, luffy was one shot by kaido following his victory over katakuri. BUT we know cladding is BS in regards to durability. Cladding is ultimately the most like culprit behind the yonko's apparently invulnerability. Evidenced by cladding being what ultimately leveled the playfield between luffy and kaido and also by big mom's durability disappearing when she despaired over caramel's picture. So if koby can use conqueror haki at will then odds are his durability will skyrocket. Not to yonko level but still a big boost for him. Even when luffy was at udon his survival of his confrontation with big mom was credited to hyoguro, a much weaker fighter than luffy, projecting his haki to defend them (even if against a presumably weakened big mom).

So... if koby can use cladding freely then yeah, odds are that under the right circumstances (that being the yonko not going all out) he can eat an attack from a yonko. My speculation here is that this is heading towards a rematch between luffy and koby in the imminent big war. And when they clash the skies will split (and koby gets overpowered after).

Is Koby even using ACoC? I think it's just a massive punch

There's a clear difference between the black lightning coming from Koby and Garp hands.

And even if Koby could use ACoC, there would still be an enormous difference with Luffy.

 

[kkck]

Is Koby even using ACoC? I think it's just a massive punch

There's a clear difference between the black lightning coming from Koby and Garp hands.

And even if Koby could use ACoC, there would still be an enormous difference with Luffy.

I give it a hard "probably". The black energy sort of oozing out of presumably conqueror haki clad attacks is the most consistent depiction of haki yet. We even see it when big mom hit page one. And sure, garp shows more of the black lightning but it's still visually the same as the one we see coming out of koby's fist. it is a bit late but it is pretty clear oda wants to make a powerhouse out of koby, sooner rather than later. He is still a character that screamed he wanted to be an admiral pretty early in the manga. I

 

[Fox666]

I give it a hard "probably". The black energy sort of oozing out of presumably conqueror haki clad attacks is the most consistent depiction of haki yet. We even see it when big mom hit page one. And sure, garp shows more of the black lightning but it's still visually the same as the one we see coming out of koby's fist. it is a bit late but it is pretty clear oda wants to make a powerhouse out of koby, sooner rather than later. He is still a character that screamed he wanted to be an admiral pretty early in the manga. I

Black lighting has always been seen with regular CoA

ACoC has a thick trail of black lightning, which is not present in Koby's attack... and I think it's an intentional contrast with Garp's attack

 

[DeadlyBeast]

The impression I had is that Smoker was keeping up with Luffy, plus the Logia intangibility.

Luffy did said he got stronger in Marineford, and Smoker managed to immobilize Luffy in Gear 2.

Smoker did get stronger by Marineford but his pace of improvement definitely seemed minor compared to Luffy's. If I recall Luffy out sped Smoker and tried to continue towards Ace before getting hit with the jitte. I'm still of the conviction that even then if it was a forced 1v1 Luffy would have defeated Smoker.

To me Smoker is just a one of those characters who matters more for plot than for actual power. Both Smoker and Koby will continue rising in the ranks, get to show a random impressive feat once in a blue moon, but for all intense and purposes fail to live up to their hype. If you really think through what each character has actually ever done in combat that's impressive, there's not much to look forward to them doing in the future.

 

[Fox666]

Smoker did get stronger by Marineford but his pace of improvement definitely seemed minor compared to Luffy's. If I recall Luffy out sped Smoker and tried to continue towards Ace before getting hit with the jitte. I'm still of the conviction that even then if it was a forced 1v1 Luffy would have defeated Smoker.

To me Smoker is just a one of those characters who matters more for plot than for actual power. Both Smoker and Koby will continue rising in the ranks, get to show a random impressive feat once in a blue moon, but for all intense and purposes fail to live up to their hype. If you really think through what each character has actually ever done in combat that's impressive, there's not much to look forward to them doing in the future.

While Smoker was taking advantage of his fruit, it's still a speed feat that he put Luffy down in Gear 2

 

[kkck]

Black lighting has always been seen with regular CoA

ACoC has a thick trail of black lightning, which is not present in Koby's attack... and I think it's an intentional contrast with Garp's attack

The trail of black energy is there, it's just not as big as garps or kaidos.