One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[BlackTiger]

If we consider how aramaki performed against the scabbards then it's clear the implication is that admirals are a fair bit above YC1. WB pirates executives in turn seem well ahead of other yonko's executives all things considered. We saw marco holding off king and queen as well along with getting actual respect from big mom and 2 years earlier the gorosei thought he had a chance of halting BB's advance... Even katakuri didn't get any respect from big mom...

Admirals are far above YC1. Ryokugyu negged King, Queen and other Beast Pirates should teach you that. Kizaru is stated to be holding back yet he still outperformed drunken Kaido in fighting Snakeman. This does not take into account that powercreep that you worship makes Kaido an even bigger jobber.

If Ryokugyu is a bit above YC1 then King, Queen and Beast Pirates combined are way below YC1 which makes King and Queen gifters level, Your logic doesn't work here.

Marco lost to King solo without doing any damage. Holding 2 characters is meaningless if you cannot damage them. Marco is more equal to Queen in Wano. He cannot damage Queen and force him to use his hybrid form and his Germa attacks while Marco already lost his stamina.

Jozu is Doflamingo's play toy. Vista did not do better than Crocodile, Doflamingo equal in fighting Mihawk. Jozu and Vista are comparable to Crocodile and Doflamingo. Nothing in MF implies that they are better than other Yonko executives.

Actual translation implies Big Mom was insecure because she looked like a subordinate compared to Katakuri in WCI.

Spoiler

Gorosei was talking about group power not individual power. Yonko names were mentioned because they're leaders from yonko group the strongest pirates group. WB died so Marco as his right hand man name was mentioned instead from a yonko group called WBP. It has nothing to do with Marco's individual power. If WB were alive, WB name would be mentioned along with other yonko Marco name won't be mentioned at all.

Big Mom actually disrespected Marco she called Marco a slave.

Big Mom said the remnant of WBP lost their way to which Marco corrected her by saying we (WBP) are not bounded by pops will which means Marco helped SHP because of his own will not because of what WB told him aka a slave. When BM said she thought Marco was better than this, she was actually saying that she thought Marco was better than a slave.

Spoiler

Dressrosa Luffy held out admiral better than Marco and Jozu did combined.

 

[john ellis]

Kizaru is probably low yonko tier at best. The admirals are probably capable of beating the yonko’s sometimes. I think they would lose more often than not. G4 luffy is probably capable of beating kizaru, the fight just ended in a semi stalemate. While kizaru sent luffy flying he also didn’t really accomplish anything.

 

[albertwv]

Snakeman without ACoC can't be gauged fairly against Kizaru

When Snakeman with ACoC hit Kaido it stun locked him until he used future sight.

And Snakeman Luffy didn't lose. He took a hit. The barrier did more damage than Kizaru did.

If taking a hit means you lose, you have to review all clashes lol

Im not arguing Snakeman with ACoC, I'm saying Snakeman with ACoA (I presume Luffy is using ACoA at the very least).
I think Snakeman with ACoA lost against Kizaru in this round. Which is why Luffy came back to fight Kizaru in Gear 5. Luffy decided to up a level as Snakeman wasn't doing the job.
If anything I think Luffy started out quickly with Gear 4 Snakeman because of speed. Luffy knew Kizaru was a speed monster and wanted to fight him using speed, because maybe Boundman was too slow.
Unfortunately Kizaru was still faster and knocked Luffy out far away.
So then Luffy came back and used Gear 5.

 

[sulpheed]

after beating Kaido , Luffy need to train more to face a power house like Akainu . If killing Luffy is Kizaru's order , Luffy's crew is finished here .

 

[XXGenesis]

So the big thing is that Kizaru fought Snake Man for a panels and he got the upper hand….Is it that big of a deal?

Here’s my perspective. It would hbeen more entertaining to see Luffy crank up how serious he is in his fight. But he went str8 into G4; Kizaru is fast, so I’m not disappointed he blocked Snakeman’s attacks & countered attack Luffy.

Kizaru is shining right now No pun intended. His ability to travel distances at his Speed is insane; He’s Lightspeed for real.

Main issues is Oda having Luffy go str8 into G4 and it doesn’t seem like he’s using ACoC in his strikes…Why?! Because it’s Oda lol idk.

Yonkou & Admirals the forever old debate. They are on the same tier. The hierarchy of who sits above who depends. They’ll either win or lose with high difficulty. Big Mom imo loses to most in the tier; Kaido for me sits up high above all admirals except Akainu.

I think the major convoluted tier is YC1+. As Characters in this level are preforming on vastly different levels. From Law+Crew Vs BBP in a Mid diff defeat. To Kidd Vs Shanks in a low diff defeat. Yamato+Scabbards Vs GreenBull in a low diff defeat. Lucci Vs G5 low diff defeat. Also there’s Sabo vs Fujitora mid diff stalemate/unfinished.

So yea it all varies. We seen 2 YC1+ pressure Big Mom to high diff ( Low on the Yonkou/Admiral Tier ).

Seen a YC1+ vs BB (Sits lower on the Yonkou/Admiral tier) give him a good Midd diff fight before losing.

Then we saw a YC1+ get stomped by Shanks. (sits high within the Yonkou/Admiral tier)

So yea. It’s becoming convoluted with how many people have gotten strong enough or just simply how many people out there that can pressure the higher tiers to whatever level. It also make it hard to compare them amongst themselves as they have all preformed against different Characters under different conditions.

 

[john ellis]

I mean using simple power scaling logic, kata and king scale above Marco who is kizaru tier, as such since kizaru scales above yonko luffy Kata and king are low pirate king tier and would give primebeard and Roger a run for there money. O wait or maybe power scaling things based off luffy is a bad idea

 

[albertwv]

So the big thing is that Kizaru fought Snake Man for a panels and he got the upper hand….Is it that big of a deal?

Here’s my perspective. It would hbeen more entertaining to see Luffy crank up how serious he is in his fight. But he went str8 into G4; Kizaru is fast, so I’m not disappointed he blocked Snakeman’s attacks & countered attack Luffy.

Kizaru is shining right now No pun intended. His ability to travel distances at his Speed is insane; He’s Lightspeed for real.

Main issues is Oda having Luffy go str8 into G4 and it doesn’t seem like he’s using ACoC in his strikes…Why?! Because it’s Oda lol idk.

Yonkou & Admirals the forever old debate. They are on the same tier. The hierarchy of who sits above who depends. They’ll either win or lose with high difficulty. Big Mom imo loses to most in the tier; Kaido for me sits up high above all admirals except Akainu.

I think the major convoluted tier is YC1+. As Characters in this level are preforming on vastly different levels. From Law+Crew Vs BBP in a Mid diff defeat. To Kidd Vs Shanks in a low diff defeat. Yamato+Scabbards Vs GreenBull in a low diff defeat. Lucci Vs G5 low diff defeat. Also there’s Sabo vs Fujitora mid diff stalemate/unfinished.

So yea it all varies. We seen 2 YC1+ pressure Big Mom to high diff ( Low on the Yonkou/Admiral Tier ).

Seen a YC1+ vs BB (Sits lower on the Yonkou/Admiral tier) give him a good Midd diff fight before losing.

Then we saw a YC1+ get stomped by Shanks. (sits high within the Yonkou/Admiral tier)

So yea. It’s becoming convoluted with how many people have gotten strong enough or just simply how many people out there that can pressure the higher tiers to whatever level. It also make it hard to compare them amongst themselves as they have all preformed against different Characters under different conditions.

Hard disagree with Akainu > Kaido. Idk why people overhype Akainu who had a difficult fight against sick Old WB, was blocked by Shanks and didnt decide to keep attacking, and beat extreme diff Aokiji, a fellow Admiral.

Kaido was the WSC and arguably the strongest of his time maybe stronger than a heathy Old WB, stronger than Shanks, and stronger than BM.
In a 1v1, I can see Kaido, healthy Old WB, and Shanks defeat any of the admirals mid-high diff. BM might have extreme diff or may lose to them.
I would even bet that those 3 could 1v2 the admirals extreme diff.

The Big Mom fight was unfair and not straight forward as people see it. Law and Kid had plot armor whether you like it or not. They themselves alone were not able to take her down. I think if BM had fallen down to the ground from the island, she would have been fine and returned back to the castle and kept on fighting. Kid's railgun only managed to push her down but not actually damage her. Law's inside attacks did more damage to her, but it wasnt enough to take her down. Law used the help of an underground explosion to knock her out. But if it wasnt for that, she would have been fine.

I have a hard time believing Kid is a YC1+, I can see Law being YC1+ but not Kid.
What feats show Kid above King or Kata? He's been hyped up to being Luffy's rival but no way is he near Luffy's level. His and Law's bounties are out of their leagues, they should have been 1.5 billion or 2 billion the most.

Law had a better feats during his fight versus BB than Kid vs Shanks, and honestly that was what I was expecting from Law. Law grew up from his time in Punk Hazard (vs Smoker and Vergo), in Dressrosa (vs. Doflamingo), to the rooftop (vs Kaido) to fighting with BM.
Kid on the other hand showed no growth, which I wished he had.
Law learned from fighting the Yonkos about using Haki to counter DFs.
Remember, BB is not like BM or Kaido in defense and power. He can bleed easier than the other Yonkos, the Yonkos were naturally stronger,
So Law is closer in strength to BB, than Kid was to Shanks.

Kaido > Shanks > Admirals > BM > BB > Luffy? > Yamato > Law > Zolo > King/Kata > Kid > Sanji

That is my current ranking list. It is hard to gauge Gear 5 Luffy against the Admirals and BM at the moment. Since I truly believe Luffy sitll cannot defeat Kaido in a true 1v1. Plus im not having alot of confidence in Luffy at the moment from his fights with Lucci, Seraphim, and Kizaru.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Where is the mental gymnastics coach? I'm looking for an instructor.

Qualifications: Must be able to scale Lucci to Admiral level at the same time scaling Kizaru to bum YC1 level*

 

[Fox666]

I prefer to scale based on numbers similar to bounties.

Luffy: 4.8 billion
Kaido: 4.5 billion
Kizaru: at least 4 billion
Yamato: 3 billion
Kid / Law: 2.4 billion
Marco: 1.6 billion
Lucci: between 1 and 3 billion (???)
Zoro: 1.2 billion
Doflamingo: 800 million

 

[john ellis]

Where is the mental gymnastics coach? I'm looking for an instructor.

Qualifications: Must be able to scale Lucci to Admiral level at the same time scaling Kizaru to bum YC1 level*

Lucci is admiral level because it took g5 luffy to defeat him and g4 luffy clearly based off 1 panel cannot beat an admiral. Kizaru is yc1 tier not admiral tier because…… kata has future slight so therefore he would clearly beat kizaru.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Lucci is admiral level because it took g5 luffy to defeat him and g4 luffy clearly based off 1 panel cannot beat an admiral. Kizaru is yc1 tier not admiral tier because…… kata has future slight so therefore he would clearly beat kizaru.

Is this a bit

This has to be a bit

 

[XXGenesis]

No matter what the reasons were that Lucci Vs G5 clash was a bad portrayal.

Luffy Vs Kizaru using G4 & G5 yet no ACoC action….Bad Portrayal.

@albertwv
Kidd Damaged Big Mom repeatedly; He also endured attacks from Big Mom & Kaido; Also from Hawkins DF…..Law Helped in this Endevaor damaging and enduring Big Mom’s attacks…They are both YC1+……Neither of them could have produced those results without each other’s help.

What I don’t understand many don’t grasp….Kidd, Law, Zoro, Marco, King, Kata, Lucci, Sanji….Are all More comparable & relative to each other still; Than they are to the likes of the Admirals/Yonko or even the old man trio.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Is this a bit

This has to be a bit

Let the man cook

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 25, 2023, Original Post Date: Sep 25, 2023 ---

If killing Luffy is Kizaru's order , Luffy's crew is finished here .

 

[john ellis]

Is this a bit

This has to be a bit

O I think future slight is highly over rated it only works on slower or people if similar speed, kata is being speed blizted by kizaru and probably low-medium diff. Also your using the circular logic of lucci being admiral tier because of a kizaru feat then down playing kizaru to not admiral

 

[Core D. Roy]

O I think future slight is highly over rated it only works on slower or people if similar speed, kata is being speed blizted by kizaru and probably low-medium diff. Also your using the circular logic of lucci being admiral tier because of a kizaru feat then down playing kizaru to not admiral

I think you replied to the wrong person because I didn't say anything about any of that.

 

[albertwv]

No matter what the reasons were that Lucci Vs G5 clash was a bad portrayal.

Luffy Vs Kizaru using G4 & G5 yet no ACoC action….Bad Portrayal.

@albertwv
Kidd Damaged Big Mom repeatedly; He also endured attacks from Big Mom & Kaido; Also from Hawkins DF…..Law Helped in this Endevaor damaging and enduring Big Mom’s attacks…They are both YC1+……Neither of them could have produced those results without each other’s help.

What I don’t understand many don’t grasp….Kidd, Law, Zoro, Marco, King, Kata, Lucci, Sanji….Are all More comparable & relative to each other still; Than they are to the likes of the Admirals/Yonko or even the old man trio.

The lack of ACoC is dumb part on Oda.

Kid barely damaged Big Mom. What was impressive on his part was that he managed to tank a few punches from her directly, but so did Law, and Law tanked alot more punches with (A)CoA from BM.
Kid damaged BM maybe only once AND that was from a combined attack with Law.
After that, Kid didnt damage BM again, he managed to hit her twice with his cannon but it didnt damage her it only managed to push her down the hole that Law created.
BM was more scared of Law's powers than Kid's.

Honestly Kid wasn't impressive at all during Onigashima, He used no haki, even though he was stated to have CoC. I don't see him being stronger than King or Katakuri. That is why I was not surprised when Shanks took him down in one shot.

 

[XXGenesis]

The lack of ACoC is dumb part on Oda.

Kid barely damaged Big Mom. What was impressive on his part was that he managed to tank a few punches from her directly, but so did Law, and Law tanked alot more punches with (A)CoA from BM.
Kid damaged BM maybe only once AND that was from a combined attack with Law.
After that, Kid didnt damage BM again, he managed to hit her twice with his cannon but it didnt damage her it only managed to push her down the hole that Law created.
BM was more scared of Law's powers than Kid's.

Honestly Kid wasn't impressive at all during Onigashima, He used no haki, even though he was stated to have CoC. I don't see him being stronger than King or Katakuri. That is why I was not surprised when Shanks took him down in one shot.

Oda’s reign was Great but it’s over now honestly. Way too many dumb, ambigous, and vagueness surround hit portrayal of

the word impressive is subjective….however the consensus is Kidd didn’t have any standout grandiose moments

You nor do I, or anyone else besides Oda or maybe an editor. Knows if Big Mom used ACoA…We saw her use ACoC against Page1 and that was the last time; Visually or any context was given to Big Mom using advanced haki.

We don’t know how much damage Kata or King are capable of doing against Big Mom or Kaido. It’s not something that we’ll ever see in manga. Given context and comparisons, they can do some damage and take a few attacks; Given Other characters around their level did the same thing.

However you are being either disingenuous, bias or refusing to acknowledge facts (Plot) (Feats).**Neither Law not Kidd are stronger than Big Mom. The Win was because it was 2 YC1+ & Plot Vs Big Mom.

Kidd’s Rail Gun made Big Mom spit up Blood; It took 2 shots to send her down the hole where plot bombs finished her off….

Kidd’s I-Beam collapse did major damage to Big Mom…So did his Giant Bill; Which she dodged the 2nd time as to not get hurt again…

The only thing you’ve acknowledge is Kidd’s endurance…..Which still means YC1 mentioned shouldn’t have enough stamina to win.

The truth is Kidd’s portrayal is mostly Midd. To say YC1 are stronger than him is hate lol. Just give him his due credit.

 

[shailks]

Call him any names but we still don’t know what exactly is one piece. I don’t even care for the fights anymore just need to know about that and what joyboy did and how roger was roo early all those years ago.

 

[Ricko]

The big mistake of Oda is Wano stupid powerscaling...

With Yonkou OS 1st commander level opponent, or Admiral low-diff 1st and 2nd commander...
The manga make me think of Bleach where beside Captains all characters are irrevelents... And it hurt the story telling, fight interest and overall attractivity...

The great point of One Piece was that any one could beat other opponent with the good strategy or skill.

Now we have a bunch of powerhouse far too powerfull than the rest of the world.
The powerscaling of Marineford was good, commander could stall Admiral even without hope of win.
Schichibukai were looking like a threat to anyone... Today Shank could solo all Marineford (beside Admirals and Mihawk) alone...

 

[Pirate Queen]

Kaido uses ACoC Thunder Bagua on a half dead Kinemon and not killing him will never not be funny

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 30, 2023, Original Post Date: Sep 30, 2023 ---