One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Kaido uses ACoC Thunder Bagua on a half dead Kinemon and not killing him will never not be funny

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 30, 2023, Original Post Date: Sep 30, 2023 ---

If by funny you mean "easily the worst part of the entirety of Wano", then yes

 

[Fox666]

Kaido uses ACoC Thunder Bagua on a half dead Kinemon and not killing him will never not be funny

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 30, 2023, Original Post Date: Sep 30, 2023 ---

If Law and Kid can survive 40 ACoC hits, Kinemon can survive 1

 

[john ellis]

Kinemon is clearly yc1+ and scales about kata, can take a ACoC hit from kaido where as g4 post wci can’t. Kinemon kills kaido

 

[Fox666]

Everyone and their dogs can take a ACoC hit from Kaido, except Zoro

 

[BlackTiger]

Kinemon is clearly yc1+ and scales about kata, can take a ACoC hit from kaido where as g4 post wci can’t. Kinemon kills kaido

Different type of attacks.

Different type of method on how they take the attacks.

Luffy took Thunder Bagua from base Kaido.
Luffy took it cleanly to his head so he took the attack full power. No damage reduction.

Kinemon took nameless advCoC attack from base Kaido.
Kinemon managed to block the attack with his swords to reduce the damage.

Thunder Bagua>>>nameless advCoC attack>>>nameless advCoC kinemon took (the ap was reduced since Kinemon blocked it).

Act 1 Kaido 1 shot Kinemon with Thunder Bagua. Kinemon would die surely this time if he takes the attack to his head without blocking with his swords.

 

[john ellis]

Different type of attacks.

Different type of method on how they take the attacks.

Luffy took Thunder Bagua from base Kaido.
Luffy took it cleanly to his head so he took the attack full power. No damage reduction.

Kinemon took nameless advCoC attack from base Kaido.
Kinemon managed to block the attack with his swords to reduce the damage.

Thunder Bagua>>>nameless advCoC attack>>>nameless advCoC kinemon took (the ap was reduced since Kinemon blocked it).

Act 1 Kaido 1 shot Kinemon with Thunder Bagua. Kinemon would die surely this time if he takes the attack to his head without blocking with his swords.

That was a meme

 

[BlackTiger]

Look at what happened to pre Udon Luffy who can stalemate Katakuri. Got blitz and one shot by base Kaido.
Even if I can give benefit of the doubt and argue the one shot was an outlier (my mistake for being fair here), the portrayal/narrative was that Luffy an absolute fodder for Kaido.

Look at the powercreep between pre Udon and post Udon luffy.
Pre Udon Luffy was seen as an irrelevant insect by Kaido.
Just one hit from rooftop Luffy made Kaido think "what changed between Udon and now" and gave him vision of his "top 5".

Look at what all rooftop Zoro accomplished. He had so much haki emanating from his swords that it gave BM a shock & asked Kaido to dodge, made Kaido dodge, a dragon twister from him injured Kaido and got Kaido start remembering "Oden's haki" (when in fact it's just Zoro's haki), blocked and partially deflected Hakai.
Kaido especially acknowledged Luffy, Zoro and Law post rooftop. Said they could've conquerored the world if they joined up.

It's giga downplay to suggest rooftop Zoro is weaker than pre Udon Luffy

Now look at what King did to rooftop Zoro.

So Zoro who beat King in 5 minutes needed Kaku help to beat Baby Seraphim.

Since Zoro beat King before Gear 5 reached his limit while Zoro still failed to beat Lucci even after Gear 5 reached his limit, Lucci is fighting Zoro for more than 5 minutes.

Lucci is keeping up with Zoro who beat King in 5 minutes.

Zoro beat King in 5 minutes. Broke his wing. Broke his sword.

Now look at what Lucci did to that Zoro.

Equal fight.

The narrative was that Zoro (Zoro who in 5 minutes beat someone who beat the crap out of Marco) equal to Lucci and needed Kaku's help to fight baby Seraphim

It's giga downplay to suggest Lucci is below King who beat the crap out of Marco

Seraphim>>>>Lucci>>>King>>>Marco

Am I doing this right?

 

[baditz]

So Zoro who beat King in 5 minutes needed Kaku help to beat Baby Seraphim.

Since Zoro beat King before Gear 5 reached his limit while Zoro still failed to beat Lucci even after Gear 5 reached his limit, Lucci is fighting Zoro for more than 5 minutes.

Lucci is keeping up with Zoro who beat King in 5 minutes.

Zoro beat King in 5 minutes. Broke his wing. Broke his sword.

Now look at what Lucci did to that Zoro.

Equal fight.

Seraphim>>>>Lucci>>>King>>>Marco

Am I doing this right?

Whete is that Zoro beat King in 5 mins cime from?

 

[I Am Atomic]

Am I doing this right?

Glad you asked. No!

 

[BlackTiger]

Whete is that Zoro beat King in 5 mins cime from?

I meant Zoro with power up.

15 minutes before Onigashima landed on Flower Capital, the fight between Zoro and King started.

5 minutes until Onigashima landed on Flower Capital Zoro was still fighting King.

That means non KOH Zoro had been fighting King for 10 minutes.

Before Onigashima landed (within 5 minutes) Zoro powered up to KOH and beat King.

That means it took Zoro less than 5 minutes to beat King the moment he got KOH.

Overall, the duration of the fight if we combine pre KOH and post KOH Zoro, the fight lasted for more than 10 minutes.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 7, 2023, Original Post Date: Oct 7, 2023 ---

Glad you asked. No!

Yes. Similar logic. X>Y because X did better than Y.

 

[Pirate Queen]

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 11, 2023, Original Post Date: Oct 9, 2023 ---

Spoiler: After reading 1095*

 

[albertwv]

I think it's time for the Admirals to suffer the same fate as the rest of the hyped characters. Look at the Warlords and Yonko Commanders and CP 0, or even most of the NW pirates. They were all hyped up to be incredibly strong but they all shared the same feat, they were sidestepped by a new hyped up character.
The Warlords were supposed to be world tier strong that could match Navy HQ and Yonko (really blur about that though). Bu after Luffy took down 2 and finally after the 3rd one, they were no longer a threat or relevant. Then the Yonko Commanders were introduced with Jack's amazing entrance and performance in Zou add Marco Jozu and Vista's performances in MF. Then what we saw at WCI with Cracker and Kata, the YC's looked invincible and close to Admiral level or so we thought.
CP0 were hyped up to really strong too but after Wano Im not too sure, only one seems capable is Lucci.

Now it looks like its the Admirals turn to take a knee and let the Gorosei to shine.

 

[BlackTiger]

I think it's time for the Admirals to suffer the same fate as the rest of the hyped characters. Look at the Warlords and Yonko Commanders and CP 0, or even most of the NW pirates. They were all hyped up to be incredibly strong but they all shared the same feat, they were sidestepped by a new hyped up character.
The Warlords were supposed to be world tier strong that could match Navy HQ and Yonko (really blur about that though). Bu after Luffy took down 2 and finally after the 3rd one, they were no longer a threat or relevant. Then the Yonko Commanders were introduced with Jack's amazing entrance and performance in Zou add Marco Jozu and Vista's performances in MF. Then what we saw at WCI with Cracker and Kata, the YC's looked invincible and close to Admiral level or so we thought.
CP0 were hyped up to really strong too but after Wano Im not too sure, only one seems capable is Lucci.

Now it looks like its the Admirals turn to take a knee and let the Gorosei to shine.

Katakuri hype never died unless someone without FS or Snakeman speed can beat Snakeman.

WSC Kaido needed FS and copy Snakeman pattern for speed boost to counter Snakeman.

Fastest character Kizaru had to amp himself to get faster to counter Snakeman because his normal speed was not enough. In normal speed, he was forced to block being unable to dodge and hit back.

So far there's not a single character that can counter Snakeman without using FS or make themselves faster than Kizaru. Not a single character that can beat Snakeman. Against Kaido, Luffy turned into Boundman to produce more ap so he could finish Kaido as soon as possible because Gear 4 almost ran out of time limit. Against Kizaru, Luffy turned into Gear 5 to have a better chance to win. Snakeman Luffy vs Kaido or Kizaru was unfinished. It's good that Oda respects Snakeman a lot.

The rest I agree though.

Doflamingo hype died when Cracker was toying with Boundman the mode that beat Doflamingo. It got worse later on when Katakuri beat the crap out of Boundman while Kaido 1 shot Boundman.
Marco hype died when King beat him.
King hype died when Ryokugyu turned him into a plant food along with Queen and the rest of Beast Pirates bozos.
Cracker hype died when Aokiji beat him.
Big Mom hype died when Shanks 1 shot 2 SN (Kidd and Killer) while Big Mom lost to 2 SN (Kidd and Law).
Kidd hype died when Shanks 0,5 shot him.
Law hype died when BB beat him.

 

[kkck]

In fairness, the strawhats are supposed to surpass and defeat all those folk. And it still looks like the issue regarding the commanders is that at least WB's were a bit ahead of the curve strength wise and by a good margin at that. I don't think admirals can necessarily win against yonko but they come at least pretty damn close (kizaru tied with luffy basically but luffy has a time limit for fighting at full strength, kaido and big mom do not). Marco, jozu and vista held their own against admirals and mihawk... Odds are that marco and jozu were sort of the new generation that took over the previous older top WB commanders for that matter. Meanwhile the implication appears to be admirals can more than solo kaido's or big mom's executives.

Honestly, to me CP0 looks like it was too powerful. Lucci had zero chance against luffy but he held his ground way more than even some YC1s have a right to. Kaku has an awakening, that's not nothing... That one asshole who sacrifices himself to kill luffy was framed as pretty strong. Stucci is at least capable enough to get the drop on lucci and kaku, which is impressive even after they got their asses handed to them.

Yeah, the shichibukai got shit treatment through the story. Luffy's victory over crocodile makes less sense the longer the story goes, the WG ignoring how weak moria got is pretty awkward... Doflamingo and jinbe being weaker than YC3s is a pretty awkward point if the shichibukai are supposed to give pause to the yonko and the WG as a whole. Overall the only shichibukai who live up to that level of hype are mihawk, a proper yonko level fighter, and boa who has some pretty decent combat capacity along with her petrification ability which can decimate armies nearly instantly. In hindsight WB got incredibly lucky during the great war boa wise as she could have probably decimated his commanders had she actually meant to. Overall it ultimately looks like the story's power creep made the shichibukai a pretty awkward plot point as it went on.

 

[BlackTiger]

WB's were a bit ahead of the curve strength wise and by a good margin at that.

Not really you have nothing to base this on. Kaido was afraid to fight BMP when BM and her crews charged in while Kaido was confident with only bringing King to MF to fight WBP

Roger was happy to fight WBP while despite having young Rayleigh, Roger avoided BMP that had BM, teen Katakuri, teen Cracker and other teen Charlottes.

Imagine current BMP with adult Charlottes. Roger might run in sight just like with Kaido if BM and her crews come to challenge Roger and his crews.

Marco, jozu and vista held their own against admirals and mihawk...

Luffy held his own against admiral Fujitora. Marco, Jozu and VIsta feats are outdated. Crocodile held his own against Mihawk who is on par with admiral or could be above since Mihawk is on par with Shanks who is portrayed above admirals. None of WBP commanders has portrayal above Crocodile who is Doflamingo's equal.

King beat Marco one sidedly too. WBP credibility to be above other yonko crews died after that moment.

Doflamingo weaker than YC3s is a pretty awkward point if the shichibukai are supposed to give pause to the yonko and the WG as a whole.

So Jozu is YC5?

Doflamingo being on par with Cracker doesn't mean other YC3 are on par or above Doflamingo too. You cannot give Cracker's portrayal to other YC3. They need to prove they're above Doflamingo too. Jozu failed 100% when Doflamingo treated him as a chair. Jack failed even worse.

Honestly, to me CP0 looks like it was too powerful. Lucci had zero chance against luffy but he held his ground way more than even some YC1s have a right to. Kaku has an awakening, that's not nothing...

The only YC1 who looks bad when Lucci is holding his own against Zoro is King and Marco who lost to King. Katakuri has nothing to do with this since Zoro hasn't shown the capabilities to beat Katakuri or Lucci hasn't shown the capabilities to beat Snakeman who is faster than Gear 5 that blitzed him while Zoro has shown the skills to beat Marco after he beat King who brutally beat Marco

Overall it ultimately looks like the story's power creep made the shichibukai a pretty awkward plot point as it went on.

Egghead Gear 5 Luffy>>>Wano Gear 5 Luffy by virtue of powercreep which makes Kizaru>>>Kaido?

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 16, 2023, Original Post Date: Oct 16, 2023 ---

kizaru tied with luffy

You believe in power creep so you agree that Egghead Gear 5>>>Wano Gear 5.

You also believe Kizaru tied with Luffy or even won since Kizaru could talk unlike Luffy so you agree Kizaru>>>Kaido.

A bit hypocritical when you said this

I don't think admirals can necessarily win against yonko but they come at least pretty damn close

Admirals should be>>>yonko by powercreep argument since admiral Kizaru fought toe to toe with much stronger Gear 5 than the Gear 5 that beat yonko Kaido.

 

[john ellis]

@Pirate Queen you excited for two piece 20 year time skip, and ussop being one of the yonko.

 

[Pirate Queen]

@Pirate Queen you excited for two piece 20 year time skip, and ussop being one of the yonko.

Oh yeah

 

[kkck]

Pfft, in 20 years ussop will have stumbled his way into the empty throne...

 

[Pirate Queen]

Luffy blocking Sengoku in Marineford is equivalent to Chopper blocking Big Mom in WCI

Fight me

 

[kkck]

Yeah, both sound like bullshit lol.