One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[kkck]

My asspull speculation is that the kuma we have seen since thriller bark has been doing stuff without haki over losing his literal will. And even then he was a force in marineford. Let alone how absurdly strong he was in his youth. It seems innate to his race but I can't look at young kuma and not think of big mom and kaido as kids. I don't think kuma will be yonko level but I could see him being stronger than doflamingo or jack.

 

[BlackTiger]

Kaido vs Snakeman implies he is

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 11, 2023, Original Post Date: Nov 11, 2023 ---

Doflamingo is not "YC3 level", IMO he is stronger than all commanders

Only Smoothie, YC2 and YC3 from WBP and BP.. He has no business to be placed above Cracker.

He just got nerfed by the gamma knife, and lost to a Luff + Law with help from all the colosseum fighters.

Boundman cannot land a hit on Cracker. Cracker df was rendered useless because of Nami. Oda also implied that Luffy could still run to recover his energy without gladiators help. Imagine if Doflamingo fights Luffy but he cannot use his string df. Did you also forget the help Doflamingo got from Bellamy and Trebol? While Cracker was alone all the homies were controlled by Nami.

I wouldn't be surprised if Oda even wanks Doffy/Kuma/Croco above guys like Katakuri

Next leader of BMP. The only Luffy's opponents (except Kaido) whose fight with Luffy was left inconclusive since he fell after Luffy and stood on the ground before Luffy after their fight. The only Luffy's opponent who Luffy called by his real name. Luffy called Crocodile shitty Croc. He called Doflamingo Doffy. He called Katakuri by his real name like how Luffy called other top tiers Kaido, Big Mom, Aokiji, Akainu, Kizaru by their real names. Oda also gave 2 double spread when Katakuri fell to the ground like it's a big deal. Other Luffy's main opponents don't get this kind of portrayal. Thinking Oda would put mid filler villains like Crocodile and Doflamingo above Katakuri is wishful thinking.

Kaido/Kizaru vs Snakeman shows how impossible it is to put other YC above Katakuri because there's not a single high tier that can keep up with Snakeman. If Kaido and Kizaru cannot make Katakuri as their hypetools via Snakeman, don't expect for Doflamingo and Crocodile to look better than Katakuri.

Only possible if there's a top tier that places their powers as among the mightiest like Rayleigh said FS users as among the mightiest or they beat Snakeman which means they can also beat Katakuri. If there's no top tier says that about their powers or they don't beat Snakeman or someone relative to Snakeman in speed, they are just regular YC/other characters that fall to Katakuri blitz list.

Crocodile feat=Doflamingo feat.

Doflamingo feat=Katakuri feat.

If Crocodile is YC1 in Cross Guild then Doflamingo is YC1 in Cross Guild too.

Katakuri is YC1+ above Cross Guild.

It's impossible to place them above Katakuri. It's possible to place them above Marco because Marco never showed better feat than Crocodile and Doflamingo in MF. Marco also has no counter to parasite. Katakuri showed superiority to Doflamingo via Boundman.

Oda showed he didn't mind to use Marco as a hypetool. First against King. Second is when Zoro beat King in 5 minutes. Third is when Ryokugyu negged both King and Queen. Oda showed these 3 characters King, Zoro, Ryokugyu can neg Marco. Won't be surprised if next time he'll use Marco to hype Doflamingo/Crocodile or Doflamingo/Crocodile shows superior feat than Marco. being used as a hypetool is Marco's job. Oda had 2 chances to use Katakuri as a hypetool through Kaido vs Snakeman and Kizaru vs Snakeman. In these fights, Katakuri only got more hype.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 11, 2023 ---

I guess Jozu/Vista looked really impressive in marineford, so they could be stronger as well.

As impressive as Cracker victim equal, Crocodile was stalling the strongest top tier in MF Mihawk. Jozu was hypetooled by Doflamingo. Crocodile showed better feat than Vista against Mihawk. How are these 2 above Cracker who showed similar or better portrayal than Doflamingo who hypetooled Jozu? It's only fair that you put Doflamingo and Crocodile above YC2 and YC3 too just like Vista and Jozu since their feats in MF were inferior to them which also places Cracker above Jozu and Vista because Cracker is portrayed above or on par with Doflamingo.

It's kind of double standard when you put Jozu and Vista above Doflamingo/Crocodile because they stalled admirals but you didn't put Doflamingo/Crocodile above Jozu and Vista when Crocodile stalled a stronger top tier.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Kaido vs Snakeman implies he is

 

[BlackTiger]

Feel free to explain how Kaido with or without FS looked better than Katakuri against Snakeman. He looked like shit tbh.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 11, 2023, Original Post Date: Nov 11, 2023 ---

Regarding beast pirates getting rolled by Greenbull, I'd at least partly attribute that to them being nerfed

Just like Crackeer was nerfed he was injured.

Greenbull being a bad matchup (GB bypasses durability, which is the main attribute of beast pirates).

Just like ice can bypass durability.

given how he dominated rooftop Zoro.

Like how Gear 5 and Stussy leftover Lucci is keeping up with post Wano Zoro.

Your arguments are full of bias.

Cracker lost to Aokiji so he's fodder. King lost to Ryokugyu because he's nerfed. You even lied Cracker had BMP help. He fought Aokiji and Van Augur solo. The other frozen characters are WCI citizens trying to escape the ice from Cracker vs Aokiji and Van Augur fight.

Cracker had more reason to lose to Aokiji. King had 0 reason why he lost. He got Queen's help. He fought the weakest admiral.

I know you're happy that Cracker lost because you can put Jozu above Cracker but it won't work like that. Cracker was nerfed against stronger admiral and Van Augur who in the future will beat the strongest YC3 Yasopp.

Cracker=Doflamingo>Jozu is the canon powerscaling. It won't change because you don't like it.

 

[Ricko]

If you see the anime you will see that King and Queen were heavily wounded, in a near death state.

Queen couldn't maintain a complete transformation.
And King couldn't even lit his fire... How can they compete an admiral in such condition.
Even Ryokugyu state it would not be the same if they were in better shape, and that they are too slow.

It's like comparing King vs Marco, while Marco had to heal a whole army with his flame, and protect his friends... When King can fight fully.

 

[XXGenesis]

@BlackTiger The irony that I didn’t specify but hinted at. Is you can make good statements others don’t address, that obviously take some analyzing of the manga.

But still say stupid shit about WCI/Snakeman/Katakuri/Kaido….& literally just keep repeating the same silly ass arguments over and over to everyone. Give it a rest.

Just get rid of the effing YC term and use the WG's ranks that are more consistent and without many exceptions.*

YC are Zodiac VA/Masked CP0 level. Stronger than Base Commander VA and weaker than Admiral. Easy.

*I think the one thing has to consider is that you have to use the Sea train arc to place the CP units, which means Wanze is Commodore Level, stronger than the Captain T-bone, and Blueno, Kalifa, Kumadori, Fukurou and Nero are all Rear Admiral/CP 8 level. This can still easily make that CP9 the strongest ever with their quantity of agents. Pre-skip Lucci, Kaku and Jabra are all standard VA level.

I think this perspective really works throughly because it has evidence within the Manga.

Bruh we’ve been through this before lol.
The Marines have their ranks for the Marines which are even more trash considering the wide ass spectrum in comparison to characters.

The Yonkou crew’s are literally 1st mate, the commanders followed officers/executive/tobi ropo

Kudo’s to you for using that metric. I hate it same way you don’t like YC’s…To-ma-toe…To-ma-to

 

[BlackTiger]

But still say stupid shit about WCI/Snakeman/Katakuri/Kaido….& literally just keep repeating the same silly ass arguments over and over to everyone. Give it a rest.

It's the opposite though. I kept saying these things because you cannot refute how Kaido can low diff Katakuri when Snakeman just embarrassed him and Kaido with FS is still much slower than Katakuri. Unless you can address this issue, I will keep remind you that Kaido low diffing Katakuri is fanfiction. Non FS Kaido needs a lucky hit to hit Katakuri to eventually beat him. FS Kaido has 50/50 chance to hit Katakuri.

Snakeman embarrassing Kaido and pushing the fastest character in the series Kizaru to be even faster won't disappear just because you want Kaido to low diff Katakuri who operates at Snakeman's speed.

If you see the anime you will see that King and Queen were heavily wounded, in a near death state.

Queen couldn't maintain a complete transformation.
And King couldn't even lit his fire... How can they compete an admiral in such condition.
Even Ryokugyu state it would not be the same if they were in better shape, and that they are too slow.

Anime is non cannon garbage. In the mange they're negged whether they're healthy or not won't change the outcome. The narrative of Ryokugyu vs King and Queen is YC1 and YC2 like the likes of King and Queen are fodders to admirals.

Anime is admirals hater. They added more bandages to King's body when in the manga, only King's forehead is bandaged.

It's like comparing King vs Marco, while Marco had to heal a whole army with his flame, and protect his friends... When King can fight fully.

Marco only healed the entire floor to halt the process of oni virus before he carried Zoro to the rooftop. He didn't heal the entire floor when he was fighting King. This is fanfiction never stated in the manga. King didn't even use his magma dragon attack against Marco. Didn't even use his hybrid mode which sent Zoro flying. Cannot even damage King's mask. Marco is doomed to be King's hypetool. It's necessary to hype Zoro when Zoro beat King because Zoro beat someone who beat YC1 like Marco.

What makes it more embarrassing is Sanji before his exoskeleton power up did more damage to Queen than Marco did. Marco is in Wano to hype King and Queen before King and Queen lost to Zoro and Sanji. King got hype by negging him. Queen got hype by taking 0 damage from Marco's strongest attacks. Marco failed to damage anyone in Wano. The only one he damaged was himself because he wasted a lot of stamina by spamming hi strongest attacks against 2 calamities which barely did damage to Queen and 0 damage to King.

Marco is more comparable to Cracker and Doflamingo.

 

[McNuss]

Tierlist (tops only)

• A+ Throne Tier: Imu
• A Gorosei Tier: Warcury, V.Nusjuro, Mars, Ju Peter, Saturn, Teach*
• A- Commander in Chief/Fleet Admiral/Holy Knights Captain/Yonko/Revo leader Tier: Kong, Sengoku (pre-skip), Sakazuki, Kuzan, Garp (pre-skip), Garling, Newgate (pre-skip), Shanks, Kaido, Linlin, Luffy (current), Mihawk, Dragon

• B+ Admiral/Revo Chief of Staff Tier: Borsalino, Issho, Aramaki, Sabo, Garp (post-skip), Sengoku (post-skip), Law, Kid, Yamato, Zoro
• B Zodiac Vice Admiral/Revo Commander/Yonko Commander/Shishibukai Tier/Masked CP0/Seraphim: Tokikake, Gion,Tensei, Ivankov, Morley, Betty, Karasu, Lindbergh, Kuma, Doflamingo, Crocodile, Hancock, Jinbei, Moria (Thriller Bark arc, with Oars and 1000 Zombies), Katakuri, Smoothie, Cracker, Snack, Perospero, Alber, Queen, Jack, Marco, Jozu, Vista, Ace, Guernica, Maha, Joseph, Lucci (post-skip), Kaku (post-skip), Stussy, S-Snake, S-Shark, S-Bear, S-Hawk, S-Crocodile, S-Flamingo, S-Bat? Gecko?, Urouge, Sanji (current), Luffy (Post)
• B- Vice Admiral Base Commander/CP0/Revo Vice Commander/Tobi Roppo/Donquixote Seats/BM Chess Piece Combattants Tier: Vergo, Smoker, Doll, Comil, Momonga, Trebol, Diamante, Pica, Inazuma, Ahiru, Jiron, Ushiano, Gambo, Jabra (post-skip), Kalifa (post-skip) Blueno (post-skip) Fukurou (Post-skip) Kumadori (post-skip), Sasaki, Who's Who, Black Maria, X. Drake, Page One, Ulti, Fukurokujo, Tamago, Bege, Pekoms, Bobbin, Hawkins, Apoo,

• C+ Vice Admiral/CP9/Revo Elites: John Giant, Cancer, Stainless, Mozambia, Onigumo, Doberman, Strawberry, Yamakaji, Lacroix, Lons, Dalmatian, Bastille, Maynard, Draw, Nazu Ketagari, Bluegrass, T-Bone (post-skip), Lucci (pre), Kaku( pre), Jabra (pre), Koby, Crocodile (Alabasta saga), Hack
• C Rear Admiral/CP8 Tier: Blueno (pre), Kalifa (pre), Kumadori (pre), Fukuro (pre), Nero, Sicily, Akehende, Kadar, Catacombo, Hina, Prince Grus, Kujaku, Mr. 1, Miss Doublefinger, Smoker (pre-skip)
• C- Commodore/CP7 Tier: Wanze, Mr 2, Daigin, Yarisugi, Brannew, Wapol

• D+ Captain: T-Bone (pre-skip), Mr. 3, Miss Goldenweek, Very Good, Shu, Sharinguru, Gorilla, Tashigi, Ratel
• D Commander/CP6: Mr. 4, Miss Merry Christmas, Hibari, Rosinante,
• D- Lieutenant Commander/CP5: Mr. 5, Miss Valentine, Spandam, Helmeppo, Fullbody, Jango

• E+ Lieutenant/CP4: Mr. 6, Miss Mother's Day, Zotto
• E Lieutenant/ Junior Grade/CP3: Mr 7, Miss Father's Day, Stalker
• E - Ensign/CP2: Mr: 8, Miss Monday, Makko, Isuka

F Tier/Marine Infantry and Sailors Division/CP1: FODDER

Might finish later, anyways, I think this is how the story wants Pl to be perceived.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 11, 2023, Original Post Date: Nov 11, 2023 ---

Ah by the way the asterisk for Teach means, by the time he's gonna fight Luffy, he'll be +1 from Kaido.

 

[XXGenesis]

No S tier .
Ya B tier chaotic as hell.

Being Relative doesn’t mean same level/Tier
Ex Zoro vs Killer

 

[McNuss]

No S tier .
Ya B tier chaotic as hell.

Being Relative doesn’t mean same level/Tier
Ex Zoro vs Killer

A tier is defined by anyone within being weaker than those above, and stronger than those below.

There might be variety within a Tier, but the story has moved past the point where this has relevancy; yes King is stronger than Jack but both are weaker than Admirals and stronger than Tobi Roppo or Base Commander VA.

I placed Zoro in Admiral, one above King but one below Kaido.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 11, 2023, Original Post Date: Nov 11, 2023 ---

And there is no S tier because the Tierlist continues after F, but there is no point in listing and I did not count how many letters I need in the end.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Feel free to explain how Kaido with or without FS looked better than Katakuri against Snakeman. He looked like shit tbh.

Spoiler: Snakeman failing to dodge a giant drunk Kaido and getting bit

Spoiler: Snakeman getting blasted through the entirety of Onigashima by Kaido's bolo breath

Spoiler: Luffy being forced to switch from Snakeman to Boundman to continue fighting Kaido (a first ever in any of his fights)

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 11, 2023, Original Post Date: Nov 11, 2023 ---

My asspull speculation is that the kuma we have seen since thriller bark has been doing stuff without haki over losing his literal will. And even then he was a force in marineford. Let alone how absurdly strong he was in his youth. It seems innate to his race but I can't look at young kuma and not think of big mom and kaido as kids. I don't think kuma will be yonko level but I could see him being stronger than doflamingo or jack.

I think it will depend on whether he gets his mind back. I can believe a current healthy Kuma with his mind back being stronger than Doflamingo/Jack. His innate durability, modified body with lasers, and his paw paw fruit definitely makes him like a grown up Seraphim.

 

[BlackTiger]

Spoiler: Snakeman failing to dodge a giant drunk Kaido and getting bit

Kaido looked slow af compared to Katakuri I already addressed this. I'll quote it again.

So did Katakuri blitz Snakeman or not?

This is Snakeman Luffy stretched his arm then kaido dodged

This is Katakuri also dodged Snakeman after Snakeman stretched his arm

Back to Snakeman vs Kaido. Snakeman pulled his arm back then stretched his arm again by the time Dragon Kaido rushed toward Snakeman. This is evident Snakeman pulled his arm back because the spark around Luffy's shoulder indicates Luffy stretched his arm which is only possible if he already pulled his arm back from previous page when Kaido turned into dragon to dodge Snakeman.

Go back to Snakeman vs katakuri. Unlike against Kaido. Snakeman didn't have the time to pull his arm back. Katakuri hit Snakeman before Snakeman could pull his arm back.

Katakuri looked much faster than FS Kaido amped with Snakeman pattern which boosts his speed]. If Kaido blitzed Snakeman then Katakuri blitzed Snakeman which is not the case.

In summary: Kaido dodged then bit Snakeman when Snakeman already pulled his hands then stretched his arms again. Katakuri dodged then hit Snakeman with Buzz Cut Mocho before Snakeman can pull his arm again.

Kaido with speed boost via copying Snakeman pattern is very slow compared to Katakuri.

Spoiler: Snakeman getting blasted through the entirety of Onigashima by Kaido's bolo breath

Did less damage than Buzzcut Mochi did to Snakeman.

Damage Snakeman took vs Katakuri: White eyes+blood

Spoiler

Damage Snakeman took vs Kaido: Just a scream+scracthes/bruises

Spoiler

Spoiler: Luffy being forced to switch from Snakeman to Boundman to continue fighting Kaido (a first ever in any of his fights)

Luffy switched to Boundman because Boundman produces more ap. He needs more ap to finish Kaido as soon as possible before Gear 4 time limit ran out.

It has nothing to do with Kaido beating Snakeman.

Spoiler

Kaido also looked like shit to Katakuri if you compare their performances against base Luffy and Boundman.

Against base Luffy: Base Luffy bodybagged Kaido (chapter 1037). Base Luffy kept getting pummeled by Katakuri.

Against Boundman: Kaido needed 30 minutes and his fastest attack coated with advCoC to beat Boundman. Katakuri beat Boundman before 30 minutes with just Power Mochi, his basic awakening attack.

So yeah Kaido looked like shit compared to Katakuri. Actually I don't even need to use Snakeman to downplay Kaido. Kaido already looked like shit compared to Katakuri against base and Boundman Luffy. Snakeman is the icing of the cake that seals the deal that Kaido without FS has no chance to hit Katakuri and will be his punching bag until Katakuri runs out of haki.

 

[Ricko]

Marco only healed the entire floor to halt the process of oni virus before he carried Zoro to the rooftop. He didn't heal the entire floor when he was fighting King. This is fanfiction never stated in the manga. King didn't even use his magma dragon attack against Marco. Didn't even use his hybrid mode which sent Zoro flying. Cannot even damage King's mask. Marco is doomed to be King's hypetool. It's necessary to hype Zoro when Zoro beat King because Zoro beat someone who beat YC1 like Marco.

What makes it more embarrassing is Sanji before his exoskeleton power up did more damage to Queen than Marco did. Marco is in Wano to hype King and Queen before King and Queen lost to Zoro and Sanji. King got hype by negging him. Queen got hype by taking 0 damage from Marco's strongest attacks. Marco failed to damage anyone in Wano. The only one he damaged was himself because he wasted a lot of stamina by spamming hi strongest attacks against 2 calamities which barely did damage to Queen and 0 damage to King.

Marco is more comparable to Cracker and Doflamingo.

You are funny because you spam non logical argument, just by pleasure of contradiction.
Negating event just because you have decided they were "not canon" or true.
But I take it like a game and would like to see how you can explain this following.

It's normal to Ryokugyu "the weakest admiral" to trash King and Queen together, even in good health.
But Marco (a fodder for King) was able to stall a freaking Yonkou during some chapters, just before healing an army and fighting 2 YCs.

So if I follow your amazing logic (something really hard)... Ryokugyu should trash and neg Big Mom....
Really strange that WG didn't just send their weakest Admiral to trash Yonkous... I think he would mid-dif Kaido, and maybe neg him if future show that the all mighty Snakeman can't hurt Ryokugyu.

 

[BlackTiger]

You are funny because you spam non logical argument, just by pleasure of contradiction.
Negating event just because you have decided they were "not canon" or true.
But I take it like a game and would like to see how you can explain this following.

Anime is non canon it's not a non logical argument. The non logical argument is yours using anime to defend King and Queen. You don't need to be an Einstein to know anime is non canon and has a lot of flaws that contradicts the manga. Just because you cannot use the manga to support your argument doesn't mean you need to use an anime which Oda doesn't care about. It's called desperation.

Sure let's play a game. In the anime, Perospero clashed equally ith Marco. Marco kick that sent Kizaru flying cannot budhe Perospero.


In the anime, Queen negged Marco.


You see how easy it is to humiliate Marco if I use anime? But I'm not that low so I'll never use anime in my argument. Manga already did a good job to embarrass Marco.

It's normal to Ryokugyu "the weakest admiral" to trash King and Queen together, even in good health.

Yes it's normal that what happened when an admiral went serious mode unlike in MF.

But Marco (a fodder for King) was able to stall a freaking Yonkou during some chapters, just before healing an army and fighting 2 YCs.

Marco had df advantage that nullified Big Mom homies it's not a representative of Marco's strength. Marco cannot damage King and Queen with his strongest attacks. Usopp with Marco df can stall Big Mom.

In fact, Brook stalled Big Mom longer than Marco did he fought Big Mom for more thn 3 chapters. Damaged her Prometheus because he has a similar df with Marco.

King negged Marco because Marco's df cannot negate King's df or his Lunarian defense. That's what happened when Marco fought someone whose df cannot be negated.

One last thing Marco never stalled Big Mom. Big Mom knew her homies would be negated by Marco's df so she used her fists instead to fight Marco. She quickly grabbed him blitzing him and was ready to finish him off.

So if I follow your amazing logic (something really hard)... Ryokugyu should trash and neg Big Mom.... Really strange that WG didn't just send their weakest Admiral to trash Yonkous...

No because Ryokugyu doesn't have a df that can nullify Big Mom homies. If his plant can nullify Big Mom homies he can neg Big Mom yes.

Keep crying though. It won't help your arguments at all.

Spoiler: Snakeman failing to dodge a giant drunk Kaido and getting bit

This is quite disingenuous tbh. Snakeman just stretched his arm to which Kaido dodged. It's normal that Snakeman cannot dodge because Snakeman was stretching his arm he cannot dodge while stretching his arm.

This is similar with Zoro vs Carrot. Zoro attacked Carrot. Carrot dodged. Then why cannot Zoro dodge? Because Zoro just used his arm to slash his sword at Carrot. He cannot dodge at that position similar with Kaido vs Snakeman.

 

[Ricko]

Sure let's play a game. In the anime, Perospero clashed equally ith Marco. Marco kick that sent Kizaru flying cannot budhe Perospero.

That mean that Perospero have a better defense than Kizaru if we follow your logic.
Or Perospero Candy's power negate Marco pheonix power, in the same logic as yours.

Or maybe, with a clever interpretation, just because all high tier fighters don't go all out in the begining of their fight...
I can't understand how you can be sure of event you don't see in the manga... albeit the pleasure of trolling around and wasting your time.

 

[XXGenesis]

Can this topic be banned. It’s getting annoying now. Having to see this argument had every damn page. It’s nonsense l.

 

[McNuss]

Yeah which is what I am saying, let's move away from the YC stuff, in the broad spectrum they are just one Tier without too much difference within, but with a great difference to the ones below, and above: The Admirals and Yonko and even beyond...!!!

That's were we are at, and what we should talk about.

 

[BlackTiger]

That mean that Perospero have a better defense than Kizaru if we follow your logic.
Or Perospero Candy's power negate Marco pheonix power, in the same logic as yours.

Or maybe, with a clever interpretation, just because all high tier fighters don't go all out in the begining of their fight...
I can't understand how you can be sure of event you don't see in the manga... albeit the pleasure of trolling around and wasting your time.

That means Perospero=Marco good you agree. Perospero physical strength>>>Kizaru physical strength. Marco cannot overpower Perospero in the anime.

And King/Queen individually>Marco too as seen in the second video I posted above.

Who is trolling I showed you how pathetic Marco is in the anime. He lost to King/Queen individually in the second video I posted. Clashed equally with Perospero in the first video I posted.



Marco is also in mythical zoan form which boosts his physical strength yet he still cannot overpower Perospero's left hand blocking his full power kick.

There's nothing smart about interpretation from the anime. It's just a desperate measure. In the anime Marco never healed the entire floor either while fighting King. You're the one who insisted on using the anime to support your powerscaling then when I showed you anime scenes where Marco looks weak you started to make a random headcannon that Marco's defense>Kizaru's defense, Perospero's candy negates Marco's df power instead of admitting that you are wrong for using the anime.

You rather make a random argument Perospero has better defense than Kizaru and Perospero candy negates Marco df power instead of admitting that anime is non cannon for what? For defending Marco/King? Ridiculous. What to defend from Marco when he clashed with Perospero equally, when Queen negged his Blue Bird in the second video I posted? In the end you achieved nothing. Marco still looks like fodder in the anime.

Nah anime doesn't clear Ryokugyu vs King and Queen. In the manga, the explosion is heard from the place where Ryokugyu fights King and Queen implying they have been fighting. When the manga switches to Ryokugyu, Ryokugyu already beats King and Queen.

In the anime, the explosion is heard from the place where Ryokugyu fights King and Queen yet when the scene switches to Ryokugyu vs King and Queen, Ryokugyu hasn't started fighting King and Queen which doesn't make sense. Where does the explosion sound come from then?

So it's not valid. Irrelevant what the anime shows it's not canon in the manga.

 

[Ricko]

That means Perospero=Marco good you agree. Perospero physical strength>>>Kizaru physical strength. Marco cannot overpower Perospero in the anime.

And King/Queen individually>Marco too as seen in the second video I posted above.

You are really dead serious, as if One Piece was a question of life...
You can't even see the joke, no one serious would say Marco = Perospero
But they are both in a tier that allow a fight between them.

Here some serious discussion and I will end here.

1. Often the anime depict fights that Oda don't want to spend time to show in Manga.
That's why it can be an element to add to the manga.

2. World is not just black and white, there's full shade of grey.
The way to "estimate" the power of a character is to take a large panel of feat, and not just pick one, when it's conveniant.
It's also important to take the setup, the best way to show it was in Hunter X Hunter, with the fighting range theory.

Battle never occur in optimal condition of opponent, even on a ring, and even less in a war.
In Marine Ford, Admiral couldn't go all out because they add to protect the island, that change a lot in estimation of their Battle capacity.
The same was during the battle between Admiral vs Revo.

There is also DF interactions that can help and be impactfull. Even if with haki this interaction is less proeminant.

So what I try to say to you since the beginning is you can't do a "perfect" evalution of character prowess with so few exemples.
Especialy in the Ryokugyu vs King and Queen fight, you just don't have enough element.
And the small element that anime give you, you just throw them away because it doesn't please you.
And the problem is that you base all your theory with so few matters, never taking the big picture of the story.

Your way to think and debate look like totalitarism, "what I think is the truth" "element that contradict me are false, because I have decide it's like that".
So to tell truth, it's not really interesting to debate with you.

The good way of the anime, it show that Queen is not a total fool, and can give a good fight to a YC1.
If we take only the manga, he's seem a total useless failure.
After it's the choice of anyone to take just the last part because it's convenient.
Some would take just the anime part, because they don't like Marco.
And between, there is those who just said "It's sad, I would like to see a fight of two healthy YC vs an Admiral. It could be interesting, I'll try to imagine the outcome"
Or "I wonder what King vs Marco will give in a optimal 1v1 fight".
But no one could give affirmative fact, as if you were Oda himself...

 

[BlackTiger]

You are really dead serious, as if One Piece was a question of life...
You can't even see the joke, no one serious would say Marco = Perospero
But they are both in a tier that allow a fight between them.

Nah you are hell bent on using the anime then might as well accept Marco=Perospero and Queen>Marco

1. Often the anime depict fights that Oda don't want to spend time to show in Manga.
That's why it can be an element to add to the manga.

This argument won't work.

Queen negging Marco Blue Bird is also the anime depicting offscreen of Marco vs King and Queen. If you want to use anime to explain the offscrren fight, you might as well agree that Queen>Marco.

The manga also doesn't explain how Marco and Perospero came to an agreement to overthrow Kaido. It's offscreened. If you want to use the anime to explain offscreen fights/events, you might as well accept Perospero=Marco because Perospero clashing with Marco is anime filling the offscreen event of Marco and Perospero came to term to make a truce.

2. World is not just black and white, there's full shade of grey.
The way to "estimate" the power of a character is to take a large panel of feat, and not just pick one, when it's conveniant.
It's also important to take the setup, the best way to show it was in Hunter X Hunter, with the fighting range theory.

King negged Marco there's nothing more to estimate. Marco is too weak to King. Nothing to estimate when Ryokugyu negged King and Queen. That's the narrative that Oda wanted to portray and only coping from fanboys like you still cannot accept this.

Battle never occur in optimal condition of opponent, even on a ring, and even less in a war.
In Marine Ford, Admiral couldn't go all out because they add to protect the island, that change a lot in estimation of their Battle capacity.
The same was during the battle between Admiral vs Revo.

Doesn't change Ryokugyu negging King and Queen is still valid because Ryokugyu had no reason not to go all out.

There is also DF interactions that can help and be impactfull. Even if with haki this interaction is less proeminant.

Ryokugyu still negged KIng and Queen whether King can burn Ryokugyu plant or not. There's no df interaction to be explained when King negged Marco.

So what I try to say to you since the beginning is you can't do a "perfect" evalution of character prowess with so few exemples.
Especialy in the Ryokugyu vs King and Queen fight, you just don't have enough element.

Manga is the only proof.

And the small element that anime give you, you just throw them away because it doesn't please you.

No it doesn't you might as well accept Perospero=Marco and Queen>Marco because those fill the offscrreened marco and perospero truce and Marco vs King and Queen just like you desperate to use anime to say King and Queen were nerfed against Ryokugyu.

Your way to think and debate look like totalitarism, "what I think is the truth" "element that contradict me are false, because I have decide it's like that".
So to tell truth, it's not really interesting to debate with you.

No need to bring politic into this you're the desperate fanboy bringing anime because the manga doesn't support your powerscaling: King negging Marco and Ryokugyu negging King and Queen.

What I think the truth is the manga. Not the anime. This is a dumb argument from you. It doesn't take a genius for people to prefer the manga over the anime in term of which one is more canon.

I don't use the anime not because it's false but because it's non canon garbage.

The good way of the anime, it show that Queen is not a total fool, and can give a good fight to a YC1.

No Queen negged Marco in the anime if you want to use the anime, Queen>>>Marco there's no Queen can give a good fight to YC1 Marco anime never shows that.

If we take only manga, he's seem a total useless failure.

You just admit you hate the manga because the manga doesn't support your Queen wank so you use the anime instead.

After it's the choice of anyone to take just the last part because it's convenient.

What in the world is that question which one is more convenient between the manga and the anime? Anyone with common sense agrees that manga is more canon whether it is convenient or not because the manga is written by Oda while Oda doesn't take part in the anime. People use the manga because it's canon not because it's convenient.

Even if Perospero clashed with Marco equally, you don't see me putting him below Cracker because I use the manga not the anime. If I use which one is more convenient for my powerscaling, I'll use the anime and put Marco below Snack and equal to Perospero.

Some would take just the anime part, because they don't like Marco.

No I use the anime part you because want to use anime to explain the offscreeen of Ryokugyu vs King and Queen. Therefore I also use anime to explain the offscreen of Marco and Perospero truce (marco clashed equally with perospero) and Marco vs King and Queen (Queen negged Marco).

And between, there is those who just said "It's sad, I would like to see a fight of two healthy YC vs an Admiral. It could be interesting, I'll try to imagine the outcome"

What kind of question is this? If they lost while in injured, they would lose as well even if they're not injured. The difference is the difficulty of their defeat.

Or "I wonder what King vs Marco will give in a optimal 1v1 fight".

Already explained Marco never healed the entire floor when he fought King.

But no one could give affirmative fact, as if you were Oda himself...

Manga already answers Marco never healed the entire floor while Marco was fighting King. Manga shows the narrative that admiral>>>YC through Ryokugyu words: admirals like myself cannot be beaten by subordinates. The narrative of Ryokugyu negging King and Queen is admirals are above subordinates like King and Queen.

Manga gives you all the answers but you cannot admit it because it doesn't suit your powerscaling so you cope with using anime instead.