One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Ricko]

Queen negging Marco Blue Bird is also the anime depicting offscreen of Marco vs King and Queen. If you want to use anime to explain the offscrren fight, you might as well agree that Queen>Marco.

I'm totally agree, so by your own statement Marco negging Kaido's bolo breath after he was trashed by King and Queen mean :
King > Queen > Marco > Kaido

The power of Queen or King is so overhelmy known and famous that the 5 elders even suggest them as unique to block BlackBeard access to Yonkou grade with others Yonkou.

 

[BlackTiger]

I'm totally agree, so by your own statement Marco negging Kaido's bolo breath after he was trashed by King and Queen mean :
King > Queen > Marco > Kaido

The power of Queen or King is so overhelmy known and famous that the 5 elders even suggest them as unique to block BlackBeard access to Yonkou grade with others Yonkou.

Marco didn't neg Kaido's Boro Breath he just blocked it. Queen destroyed Marco's Blue Bird to ashes. Marco also blocked King punch which was aimed at Zoro right after King negged him that doesn't change King negged Marco.

If you want to use the anime then better accept Perospero=Marco and Queen>Marco. Not by my own statement. It's by your own statement that you want to use the anime to explain the offscreened Ryokugyu vs King and Queen so might as well use the anime and accept Perospero=Marco that explains the offscreened Marco and Perospero truce and Queen>Marco that explains the offscreened Marco vs King and Queen. So it's your own statement that put Marco=Perospero and Marco<Queen not mine.

Kaido>King>Marco as per manga.

Nah Marco's name was mentioned because WB died. How would King name be mentioned when Kaido was alive? Do you expect the elders to say 5 yonko and King and Marco+WBP remnants can stop BB? Why would gorosei mention King name there when he was part of Beast Pirates that were led by Kaido one of the yonko that gorosei mentioned?

Marco's name was mentioned as a substitute of WB who died from WBP. Why should King name be mentioned as a substitute of Kaido from BP when Kaido were alive? It doesn't make sense that 5 elders mentioned Kaido and King name from Beast Pirates while they only mentioned Shanks and Big Mom from RHP and BMP respectively for groups that could beat BB because King is Kaido's right hand man it doesn't make sense that he's mentioned along with Kaido because that means Kaido and King are both captains of BP. If WB was alive WB name would be mentioned instead Marco name won't be mentioned. 5 Elders also said possibly Marco and the rest of WBP remnant so even they were not sure that Marco and the rest of WBP remnants can stop BB.

King negged Marco as per manga. Marco didn't heal the entire floor either while he was fighting King. No amount of excuse can be given to Marco.

 

[HereNThere]

This topic is going anywhere fruitful, so we can move on. Post dealing with this topic will now be subject to deletion.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Saturn is like a master class in showing power from character design. Like I know he's awakened, has undefined, telekinetic head-exploding powers, very much doesn't care about getting stabbed, and that's it... but I still get the feeling he and by proxy the Gorosei are WAY stronger than I assumed. I'm not sure how to feel about this. I know they look down on 'humans', but like... the whole concept of the balance of power in the world is thrown way out of wack of the Gorosei are anywhere near emperors/admirals. Which they now very much seem to be.

This topic is going anywhere fruitful, so we can move on. Post dealing with this topic will now be subject to deletion.

For a second I was like 'wtf is he talking about' then I hit the unhide ignored button. Wowzers.

 

[kkck]

Saturn is like a master class in showing power from character design. Like I know he's awakened, has undefined, telekinetic head-exploding powers, very much doesn't care about getting stabbed, and that's it... but I still get the feeling he and by proxy the Gorosei are WAY stronger than I assumed. I'm not sure how to feel about this. I know they look down on 'humans', but like... the whole concept of the balance of power in the world is thrown way out of wack of the Gorosei are anywhere near emperors/admirals. Which they now very much seem to be.



For a second I was like 'wtf is he talking about' then I hit the unhide ignored button. Wowzers.

It's not just the gorosei but also god knights... I don't mind the gorosei being that powerful... If they are unaging then I could see them all being ancient conqueror kings who managed to deify themselves through their organization. It's very fitting. With god's knights I do take issue with since they seem powerful enough for the RA to be specifically wary of them even though their executives seem capable of holding their ground against admirals and for some reason god knights don't leave majiroa. Basically these isolated and bigger than life nobles in this day and age still manage to somehow produce warriors of extraordinary prowess, some perhaps also in the yonko/admiral ballpark. Who also don't appear to participate in affairs of the world. I suppose it'd be interesting if the gorosei as potential conqueror kings from the past oversee the development of god knights..

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I think in general Oda has indicated that the OP world is vast and has a ton of powerful people that we may never meet. The moment we got two outsiders recruited as new Admirals through a draft that opened up a lot. This was further compounded by us learning about BM, Kaido, and Oden just randomly being exceptionally strong people without much training. The WG having that many powerful fighters makes sense if we are to believe they maintained global dominance for 800 years. God's knights probably are probably by nature on the stronger side (they are the cream of the crop of descendants of ancient royalty), get the best possible trainers and resources to train, have access to the best DFs if they choose. Plus we have already seen they go down to the normal world during the Hunts so who's to say they don't venture out into the world on top level government missions that are kept even hidden to CP0, CDs trusting other CDs the most does make sense.

 

[Fallou]

Saturn is like a master class in showing power from character design. Like I know he's awakened, has undefined, telekinetic head-exploding powers, very much doesn't care about getting stabbed, and that's it... but I still get the feeling he and by proxy the Gorosei are WAY stronger than I assumed. I'm not sure how to feel about this. I know they look down on 'humans', but like... the whole concept of the balance of power in the world is thrown way out of wack of the Gorosei are anywhere near emperors/admirals. Which they now very much seem to be.



For a second I was like 'wtf is he talking about' then I hit the unhide ignored button. Wowzers.

Imo that’s classic shonen logic, the need for an ever stronger enemy in order to challenge the MC trumps established power scaling. To be fair One Piece has been less guilty of that than many other manga and stood by its worldbuilding a lot more.
But it’s not like I even despise shonen tropes, every genre has their own, it’s just that, combined to publishing/economic constraints, they tend to make good plotting and good worldbuilding (in that case a power system that makes sense from beginning to end) more difficult

 

[grey matter]

Saturn is like a master class in showing power from character design. Like I know he's awakened, has undefined, telekinetic head-exploding powers, very much doesn't care about getting stabbed, and that's it... but I still get the feeling he and by proxy the Gorosei are WAY stronger than I assumed. I'm not sure how to feel about this. I know they look down on 'humans', but like... the whole concept of the balance of power in the world is thrown way out of wack of the Gorosei are anywhere near emperors/admirals. Which they now very much seem to be.



For a second I was like 'wtf is he talking about' then I hit the unhide ignored button. Wowzers.

My interpretation is that the balance was ONLY between the ground forces of the WG, versus the pirates and other miscreants/rebels.

Gorosei, Holy knights etc are exclusively for Celestial Dragons alone.
They are the heads of the WG, and by their nature, they do not want to directly interfere with the matters on the surface. They are smug royalty who leaves these matters for their subordinates, i.e Marines, Shichibukai, Cipher Pol/govt agents etc.
Unless matters get EXTREMELY DIRE, the elite Celestial Dragons won't interfere.

This is a post I made a while back, this is my interpretation of the "balance" in one piece that was mentioned during Marineford:

Regarding the Shichibukai, balance, 3 great powers..........my take on it

The balancing is shichibukai working together with marines, versus the collective Yonkos.


If we analyze things from Marineford perspective (this is important, because the 3 great powers balance was something which strictly existed only pre-Mareinford, post-Marineford was the slow crumbling of the world balance), marines as an organization is roughly equal to 3 Yonko crews.
They have 5 top tiers in 3 admirals, Sengoku and Garp. But are lacking in commander level characters (I mean, the high-end zodiac Vice Admirals are commander level, but they are few in number).
So collectively, marines are ~ 3 Yonko crews.

Marines can comfortably deal with a single Yonko crew.
But if 2 Yonkos join together, then it poses bit of a threat. They would still win, but would take decent losses.
If 3 Yonkos join together, then it's too close to call.
If 4 Yonkos join together, then it's game over.


This is where Shichibukai come in.
Shichibukai collectively is basically a high end Yonko crew (comparable to WBP/RHP).
Mihawk - yonko level fighter. Other shichibukai being varying commander level fighters, with some of the Shichibukai subordinates passing for executive level.


Now, with the addition of Shichibukai, the marine organization is so powerful that it is potentially equal to 4 Yonkos collectively.

The balance is:
- yonkos keep each other in check, because of their selfish nature preventing each other from working together
- presence of 4 yonkos keeping marines in check. They can't invade and take out a single Yonko, because that would force all the Yonko to team up for self preservation - something marines don't want.
- marines (with shichibukai) remaining the strongest force in the world balanced against collective might of 4 Yonkos.


I don't know if Oda thought so deeply about this balance and powerscaling, but this fits in perfectly IMO. A very cold war esque balance.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Luffy solos Marineford Whitebeard, still loses to Prime beard after extreme diff

 

[Fox666]

Luffy's fruit does has advantage over the Gura Gura no Mi.

 

[kkck]

Luffy being resistant to vibrations sounds weird. In some ways WB's vibration attacks seem almost like explosions.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Luffy definitely is not immune to shock waves since attacks like Rokugun are effective against him. Not clear if he has resistance to them in same way he does have resistance to physical attacks in general. We can sure bet that when he fights BB, quake punches will hurt and do damage.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 1, 2023, Original Post Date: Dec 1, 2023 ---

Luffy solos Marineford Whitebeard, still loses to Prime beard after extreme diff

Damn makes you think how different Marineford would have been if current Luffy was there. Ace would have definitely been rescued and likely an admiral would have been defeated. Heck maybe WB would have come out alive and BB would be a nobody.

 

[kkck]

I could see luffy having more resistance than a normal person to vibrations but the gura gura no mi or even hashoken have shown to have serious power... There's no way luffy can simply eat explosions from either. I suppose any resistance luffy has could be greatly expanded by G5 due to how malleable luffy becomes.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Luffy definitely is not immune to shock waves since attacks like Rokugun are effective against him. Not clear if he has resistance to them in same way he does have resistance to physical attacks in general. We can sure bet that when he fights BB, quake punches will hurt and do damage.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 1, 2023, Original Post Date: Dec 1, 2023 ---

Damn makes you think how different Marineford would have been if current Luffy was there. Ace would have definitely been rescued and likely an admiral would have been defeated. Heck maybe WB would have come out alive and BB would be a nobody.

BB would have recalculated his efforts from "swim in Luffy's wake while waiting patiently to claim the gura-gura" to "kill the shit out of Luffy before he becomes too much of a problem".

 

[McNuss]

I think Rogertimes are completely irrelevant to the actual One Piece as far as it goes for powerscaling. "Prime Roger" or "Primebeard", "Prime Garp", etc. etc. are all phantoms that are as bonkers as demanded for the plot, but don't really have anything to show as time for flashbacks is limited.

Fact is, at the end of the series, as the only other Pirate King, Roger will also be the only one directly comparable to Luffy, well maybe besides Imu, who as King of the World has a similar and comparable title. So that means Roger will be upscaled as far as Luffy will go, and "Prime Beard" will adjust in similar fashion to the endgame of other Luffy brothers and rivals like Sabo, Zoro, Sanji, Kid, Law, etc.

• A+ Throne Tier: Imu
• A Gorosei Tier: Warcury, V.Nusjuro, Mars, Ju Peter, Saturn, Teach*
• A- Commander in Chief/Fleet Admiral/Holy Knights Captain/Yonko/Revo leader Tier: Kong, Sengoku (pre-skip), Sakazuki, Kuzan, Garp (pre-skip), Garling, Newgate (pre-skip), Shanks, Kaido, Linlin, Luffy (current), Mihawk, Dragon

About Pre-Skip Whitebeard, honestly if it weren't for the tsunami or the potential of sinking islands , I don't even think he would belong in that tier.
He was just too slowed down already and had heart attacks and Haki failures midfight - yikes.

Chances are high Mihawk's slash would have cut him clean in half had Jozu not stepped in and Mihawk not half assed since he is just too eccentric. Nice little show to hide your obvious disabilities.

He's a Jack with Earthquakes, really.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 4, 2023, Original Post Date: Dec 4, 2023 ---

Unban the topic mods. How may forms of media do we need to prove Mihawk is a fraud?

Mihawk is like the guy who once won Bowling World Championship and now misses every throw on purpose when playing with his friends.
That is, until you poke him really hard, maybe say nasty things about his mum or stuff, then he annihilates you with a strike series.

But yeah, his title is as meaningless as any World Cup winner, maybe one of the competitors had a bad day, next year its someone else and there might be someone in the backyard better than everyone but not even in the competition.

But as far as plot progression goes, Mihawk must be legitimately powerful and atleast +1 from current Zoro.

-----

That is...
Well there is also the theory that Zoro already beat Mihawk. Luffy beat two of them pre-skip, why shouldn't Zoro beat one of them in the inbetween? That eye scar must have come from somewhere.

 

[Pirate Queen]

 

[Rein Avara]

You'll get your time to shine soon I feel it

 

[DeadlyBeast]

BB would have recalculated his efforts from "swim in Luffy's wake while waiting patiently to claim the gura-gura" to "kill the shit out of Luffy before he becomes too much of a problem".

I'd think Luffy would be too strong for BB in that parallel timeline for him to switch to kill him, but maybe he would have created a long running plan like he did against WB.

Considering the type of person BB is it really is interesting to think what alternate route to getting where he is could he have taken if he didn't get the Gura Gura no mi powers. In theory whatever lead BB to have the ability to steal and absorb powers is independent of all of this so if he couldn't get that power what fruit would he have gone for? Presumably he'd want to take out WB eventually (weakest Yonko target due to health) so maybe a power that had an advantage against Gura Gura powers.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Is Post Time Skip Franky stronger than maeineford Crocodile

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Is Post Time Skip Franky stronger than maeineford Crocodile

Probs not MF Crocodile since he was to me retconned in power level at that point in the story. Now current post skip Franky vs Alabasta Crocodile I can see Franky winning so long as he realizes how to bypass Crocodiles logia intangibility.