One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Do you think kaido would find a match with vista to be fun?

No? Kaidou isn't a swordsman, Vista and Mihawk are hobbyist nerds. Just because Mihawk is world champ doesn't mean game ain't gonna recognize game- I don't think it was worth looking into more than that unless you think Vista is somehow S-tier with admirals and emperors and mihawk-types.

Now if somebody wants to, say, drink Kaidou under the table, he might indulge that challenge even if they're somebody well below his power level.

Yeah I waffle on putting Weevil higher in general because we're entering the endgame and there's not much use having him be anything less than a real threat.

I mean, Blackbeard Pirates doubters do have a point. They get hyped up for things that happen off screen, but get their asses kicked pretty much every time they are on screen. People like Boa and Garp went through them like a hot knife through butter until Blackbeard and Aokoji stepped in to save them.

They seem be just as top heavy as the Strawhats, which makes sense since they are seemingly being set up to fight each other, but that also means there have to be some members that there are a bunch of members that are more around Franky, Robin, Brook, Chopper, Nami, and Usopp’s level. They can’t all be (and obviously aren’t) a bunch of Zoro, Sanji, and Jinbeis.

The Strawhats have been stacking up Ws too, but not all of them are upper tier either.

Eh... but when the BB Pirates take those L's, it's always characters 99% of everyone else would have lost to for the same exact reasons. Magellan's poison, Boa's petrification, and Garp's punches are all career-ending events at best, and most likely instant death conditions for damn near anyone. Blackbeard mollywomping Law of all people speaks volumes to where the guy's at, but because he doesn't get Ultra Cool No-Damage Flawless Victories he gets looked down on in this weird way that feels totally surface level.

Tangent: They do seem to be about as top-heavy as the Strawhats, but the difference is that the Blackbeard Pirates actively seek out ways to strengthen themselves and their crew. The Strawhats just sort of Katamari their way into those upgrades at best, and it shows. Franky and Ussop didn't get any fancy seastone stuff or Egghead tech, Jinbe is depressingly useless in Elbaf. Like, aside from Robin busting out a random super transformation, the only non-trio Strawhat who has actively upgraded their arsenal mid-adventure is.... Cat-Burglar Nami, the shadow captain of the group :P

 

[HereNThere]

I mean, Blackbeard Pirates doubters do have a point. They get hyped up for things that happen off screen, but get their asses kicked pretty much every time they are on screen. People like Boa and Garp went through them like a hot knife through butter until Blackbeard and Aokoji stepped in to save them.

They seem be just as top heavy as the Strawhats, which makes sense since they are seemingly being set up to fight each other, but that also means there have to be some members that there are a bunch of members that are more around Franky, Robin, Brook, Chopper, Nami, and Usopp’s level. They can’t all be (and obviously aren’t) a bunch of Zoro, Sanji, and Jinbeis.

The Strawhats have been stacking up Ws too, but not all of them are upper tier either.

Hancock and Garp walking through them is by no means anti-feats for them given how powerful both are. Hancock petrifies basically anyone who finds her somewhat hot (i.e. the entire world for the most part) and Garp is Garp. We just saw a younger him forcing the future Yonkou to run away back in the day. He's a menace in general.

While Teach and Kuzan are the big players on the team right now, I wouldn't say that means the remaining Blackbeard Pirates are anywhere near non-monster trio + Jinbe Strawhats. More than half of the crew are Level 6 inmates who came out on top of the battle royale that Teach imposed on them, so that already puts that half of the crew at a crazy base level compared to weaker Strawhats. And on top of that, they've boosted themselves further with hax DFs.

Even the OG Blackbeard Pirates were pulling some pretty crazy stunts pre-timeskip. Auger sniping seagulls far out at sea (far enough out where the island he was on couldn't even be seen) and Lafitte breaking into Mary Geoise into a WG meeting with no issues.

The crew is destined to be beaten by the Strawhats, but I think the average strength of the former is far stronger than the latter.

 

[Tonix]

Eh... but when the BB Pirates take those L's, it's always characters 99% of everyone else would have lost to for the same exact reasons.

Yes, the top tiers of fighters. Getting stomped by those people while teaming up against them means they aren’t on the top tiers themselves.

Blackbeard mollywomping Law of all people speaks volumes to where the guy's at.

And Blackbeard having to do that after multiple members of his crew teamed up and failed to take out Law speaks volumes about where some of his crew mates are at.

I’m not saying they are all weak chumps, but a lot of them are clearly not close to the top tiers.

because he doesn't get Ultra Cool No-Damage Flawless Victories he gets looked down on in this weird way that feels totally surface level.

Just be clear, I’m talking about Blackbeard’s crew mates, not Blackbeard himself. Every Yonko has crew mates who aren’t at like Yonko Commander/Warlord level. Even Rocks and Roger had lower tier members on their crew.

It’s not a diss on the Blackbeard crew to say that not everyone of them is an upper tier fighter.

Lafitte breaking into Mary Geoise into a WG meeting with no issues.

That’s starting to seem like a less impressive feat the more we are shown. Mary Geoise seems to have pretty lackluster defenses, and Lafitte can fly.

They seem to be mostly reliant on people not being able to get to the top of the Redline/the Marines keeping them away from the Redline/people being too afraid to even try.

 

[kkck]

No? Kaidou isn't a swordsman, Vista and Mihawk are hobbyist nerds. Just because Mihawk is world champ doesn't mean game ain't gonna recognize game- I don't think it was worth looking into more than that unless you think Vista is somehow S-tier with admirals and emperors and mihawk-types.

Now if somebody wants to, say, drink Kaidou under the table, he might indulge that challenge even if they're somebody well below his power level.

Yeah I waffle on putting Weevil higher in general because we're entering the endgame and there's not much use having him be anything less than a real threat.


Eh... but when the BB Pirates take those L's, it's always characters 99% of everyone else would have lost to for the same exact reasons. Magellan's poison, Boa's petrification, and Garp's punches are all career-ending events at best, and most likely instant death conditions for damn near anyone. Blackbeard mollywomping Law of all people speaks volumes to where the guy's at, but because he doesn't get Ultra Cool No-Damage Flawless Victories he gets looked down on in this weird way that feels totally surface level.

Mihawk seemed fairly interested in testing his strength against WB though. I am sure he takes challenges from swordmen more personally but that's not the same as not being interested at all in fighting non swordsmen. Given the sheer difference in strength between kaido/bigM and king/katakuri to be it's a stretch that mihawk would be impressed by someone in that tier.

 

[XXGenesis]

For a lot of nebulous characters, I guess it’s what you place value on as to how high or low you may scale them. Narrative, Portrayal & feats, Hype, Legacy & reputation.

Ace’s problem is his early death with a lack of portrayals to match his hype. Placing him for me isn’t hard. He’s clashed with BB & lost. Clashed in a TS with Yamato evenly with no decided winner. While on his come up heStalemated with Jimbei. So he’s easily YC1 lv.. I wouldn’t put him above Marco, King or Katakuri.

Ben Beckman…🫤 Not the biggest fan, I can totally see Oda not delivering. But holding a lil faith I think he’s Comparable to old Rayleigh/Gabban; just below the admirals.

Coby… has been mismanaged by not showing the fruits of his labor Post time skip, before giving him the most blatant power creep skill because of a back story lol…Considering Haki skill he’s also laughable somewhere in the YC1 range.

BB, is strong..I don’t like how Oda handles his power scailing similar to Coby. But it’s mostly Oda kinda trolling us…BB was hiding his strength; He encounters a GK Shanks & scared him. Layed low in the WBP crew then killed Thatch over the Yami fruit. Ace finds him and loses , When he infiltrates Impel down his whole Crew is taking out by Magellan, & saved by Shiryuu’s antidote. Crashes MFW, WB handles him on a 1 vs 1 & is saved by his crew pumping shots into WB, the crew even endures an attack from Sengoku, He jumps the Heart Pirates with a few of his crew and is successful but seems like he’s just fighting sloppy as mentioned by his crew. All in All BB has been holding back of sorts. I think BB before even eating any fruit was above a YC1 lv. Since then he’s eaten 2 very powerful fruits. I believe Oda is trolling us, or BB just fights stupidly and we just haven’t seen him lock in for real

 

[Tonix]

Coby… has been mismanaged by not showing the fruits of his labor Post time skip, before giving him the most blatant power creep skill because of a back story lol…Considering Haki skill he’s also laughable somewhere in the YC1 range

Coby should have just stayed a cover arc character imo. His power creep is insane. He went from not even to being able to beat Alvida or even just East Blue fodder pirates to knowing advance military martial arts techniques in like 2-3 months, and his post timeskip increase is even bigger.

Garp is obviously a way better teacher than Rayleigh. Wonder how strong Luffy would be now if Garp had trained him more often instead of just abandoning him with bandits.

 

[costicla]

Coby should have just stayed a cover arc character imo. His power creep is insane. He went from not even to being able to beat Alvida or even just East Blue fodder pirates to knowing advance military martial arts techniques in like 2-3 months, and his post timeskip increase is even bigger.

Garp is obviously a way better teacher than Rayleigh. Wonder how strong Luffy would be now if Garp had trained him more often instead of just abandoning him with bandits.

Well, from what we saw, Rayleigh showed Luffy the basics of HakI and had sparring matches with him. Plus he then left Luffy to figure out stuff for himself. Garp has been training Coby since the incident with Morgan, from what we saw, and he still did training by himself, since he said he is weaker than most people. So I don't know if Garp is better than Rayleigh , but he is probably more brutal. Him training Luffy and the others is him coming from time to time at the hideout, beating them up and trowing them in the forest to survive.

Still, Coby is probably the fastest in the series to reach such levels of power. The problem is that we don't see the story from his perspective, he isn't the main character so we don't know all the missions and adventures he went on as a marine. We hear about them, like Rocky Port, but have not see them, since he and the marines aven't been the maine focus since marineford. We probably will see much more from him now since the maine enemy will be the World Government. Though, I don't think he really will be a match for Luffy, at leat not full power Luffy, sinceeven with all his growth, at Marineford Luffy still took him out with a punch. Though he is much stronger now, so is Luffy.

 

[Tonix]

Well, from what we saw, Rayleigh showed Luffy the basics of HakI and had sparring matches with him. Plus he then left Luffy to figure out stuff for himself.

He spent over a year training Luffy, and then left him alone for the last few months of the two year time skip.

Garp has been training Coby since the incident with Morgan

Between the Morgan incident and Coby reappearing using very advanced techniques was like 2-3 months at best. Some of that time was spent swabbing decks and stuff. And after that, Garp went back to eating crackers in Sengoku’s office all day.

During the timeskip, Garp could only have trained him for around the same amount of time as Rayleigh trained Luffy, probably even less time, because Coby went out into the world and made a name for himself before Luffy left Amazon Lily.

Current Coby could probably take most of Luffy’s pre-timeskip opponents now. That’s a ridiculous glow up from where he started in the amount of time it took.

I wish Oda had stuck with Smoker as Luffy’s Garp instead of tossing him aside in favor of Coby.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Mihawk seemed fairly interested in testing his strength against WB though. I am sure he takes challenges from swordmen more personally but that's not the same as not being interested at all in fighting non swordsmen. Given the sheer difference in strength between kaido/bigM and king/katakuri to be it's a stretch that mihawk would be impressed by someone in that tier.

I assumed the only reason he showed up at all was for Whitebeard- "to measure the distance between me and that man". He probably (rightfully) figured this would be his last possible chance to cross blades with Whitebeard, but I assume he lost that desire when Whitebeard starting hacking up his lungs. If he thumbs his nose at Shanks for having one arm he probably lost interest when he saw just how debilitated Whitebeard is.

Again, I don't think it's just about "what tier" somebody is in. Are they swordsman? Then they count. Mihawk wouldn't have dueled Zoro in East Blue if what you're saying is the case.

King specifically nebulously counts as a "swordsman" by OP-universe swordsman standards. Zoro's whole annoyance at King's gimmick sword invalidated whatever vague sword-guy code they all share.

 

[Tonix]

If he thumbs his nose at Shanks for having one arm

As best as I can remember, it was said that Mihawk lost his interest in fighting Shanks after Shanks lost his arm, not that he lost his interest in fighting Shanks because Shanks lost his arm.

It seems like they are friends, so post arm loss Shanks might have just told Mihawk about whatever he is planning.

 

[kkck]

I assumed the only reason he showed up at all was for Whitebeard- "to measure the distance between me and that man". He probably (rightfully) figured this would be his last possible chance to cross blades with Whitebeard, but I assume he lost that desire when Whitebeard starting hacking up his lungs. If he thumbs his nose at Shanks for having one arm he probably lost interest when he saw just how debilitated Whitebeard is.

Again, I don't think it's just about "what tier" somebody is in. Are they swordsman? Then they count. Mihawk wouldn't have dueled Zoro in East Blue if what you're saying is the case.

King specifically nebulously counts as a "swordsman" by OP-universe swordsman standards. Zoro's whole annoyance at King's gimmick sword invalidated whatever vague sword-guy code they all share.

I mean, mihawk picked a fight with luffy pretty much for the lolz and luffy was not even a swordsman. And had his fun with an asshat like krieg. Mihawk definitely takes pride in being the world's strongest swordsman but odds are he also takes pride in simply being strong.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Marineford makes it hard to judge most characters going all out abilities for several reasons - (1) narratively Oda wanted to save that for a lot of them since they'd be relevant in future arcs, (2) the power system of haki still needed a lot of fleshing out and developing, and (3) there is such a big gap in power between the characters there it would make for a boring war for us readers since only a few characters would have been relevant.

Other than WB who was going to die in that arc I don't think anyone else really went all out. The OG Admirals fought but based on current showings its clear they had a lot more to give. Garp and Sengoku didn't do their absolute best either especially seeing what Garp could do now. There technically were many CoC users there that didn't even do the basic blast that likely would have knocked out a bunch of the foot soldiers.

This also doesn't factor that for the Schibukai most of them had 0 motivation to go all out. They were forced to be present but they don't have to fight to their limits for the WG. They just toyed around with people. Mihawk didn't want to kill Luffy, he wanted to test him to see how far he'd made it since they last saw each other in East Blue.

The key take away from Marineford is just how Oda made characters relative to each other.

• He made it clear the OG Admirals were above the WB commanders but that the WB top commanders could at least hold out a bit against them even if they'd eventually lose.
• He made it clear that a full fledged Yonko is above an OG Admiral but an OG Admiral would do some damage before losing.
• He also made it clear despite being old that Garp and Sengoku could still fight on the level of at least the top WB commanders and likely close to OG Admirals.
• And for the Shichibukai it was apparent that a few of them were much stronger with BB, Mihawk, Doffy, Hancock, Kuma all being portrayed as at least top WB commander level to likely OG Admiral level. This by proxy means that some of them could even give a Yonko a hard time even if they'd ultimately lose.

 

[Tonix]

And for the Shichibukai it was apparent that a few of them were much stronger with BB, Mihawk, Doffy, Hancock, Kuma all being portrayed as at least top WB commander level to likely OG Admiral level. This by proxy means that some of them could even give a Yonko a hard time even if they'd ultimately lose

I think the OG Shichibukai, except maybe Moria, (and Boa because no one strong even tried to fight her) gave pretty equal performances at Marineford. They were all clashing with each other and/or top members of Whitebeard’s crew on relatively equal footing.

Even Crocodile proved why he deserved to be a Shichibukai by clashing with both Doffy and Mihawk and coming out unscathed.

The almost complete lack of deaths or serious injuries between the OG Shichibukai and Whitebeard’s top commanders showed that they were all relatively the same tier.

My main takeaway powerscale wise from the battle was that every Marine not named Garp or Tsuru that is VA or lower is a chump and all the lower than Yonko level top tier pirates are around the same level. (Second takeaway is that giants aren’t inherently super strong, no matter how big they are.)

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I think the OG Shichibukai, except maybe Moria, (and Boa because no one strong even tried to fight her) gave pretty equal performances at Marineford. They were all clashing with each other and/or top members of Whitebeard’s crew on relatively equal footing.

Even Crocodile proved why he deserved to be a Shichibukai by clashing with both Doffy and Mihawk and coming out unscathed.

The almost complete lack of deaths or serious injuries between the OG Shichibukai and Whitebeard’s top commanders showed that they were all relatively the same tier.

My main takeaway powerscale wise from the battle was that every Marine not named Garp or Tsuru that is VA or lower is a chump and all the lower than Yonko level top tier pirates are around the same level. (Second takeaway is that giants aren’t inherently super strong, no matter how big they are.)

I'd potentially include Crocodile and Jinbei in that whole match up but they were less clear to me coming out of Marineford. Both of them clashed with an Admiral and struggled harder than say Marco or Jozu did which is why I didn't have them in the same tier. But post time skip it does seem clear they'd be on similar standing as Yonko commander or better but still below OG Admiral.

As for VA and lower I think Oda has played fast and loose with this one. Some VAs clearly seem to be really strong and on the path to being Admirals but then others are a complete disappointment. The VA rank is just too large and too varied to use the rank as any indicator of power level. You got guys as weak as Maynard but at the same time have people as strong Tsuru, Garp or some of those other Admiral contenders like Gion.

Regarding deaths I think Marineford had the most success out of all of One Piece. Ace and WB dying is the first deaths in the story that actually stick. Both had emotional impact too so I don't think Marineford of all arcs should get criticized for lack of deaths.

 

[HereNThere]

As for VA and lower I think Oda has played fast and loose with this one. Some VAs clearly seem to be really strong and on the path to being Admirals but then others are a complete disappointment. The VA rank is just too large and too varied to use the rank as any indicator of power level. You got guys as weak as Maynard but at the same time have people as strong Tsuru, Garp or some of those other Admiral contenders like Gion.

I don't know why Oda inflated the VAs so much. He has those other Marine ranks for a reason. There could've been 9-15 Vice Admirals and that would've been more than enough.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I don't know why Oda inflated the VAs so much. He has those other Marine ranks for a reason. There could've been 9-15 Vice Admirals and that would've been more than enough.

I think he just wanted impressive sounding title for a bunch of characters but you're right. I just checked and I'd wager about half of all named marines are VA rank which is insane when you think about it. He really should have made use of the lower ranks and reserved 10-15 VA ranks for the impressive ones that all could be low YC to high YC level and maybe two to three right below OG Admiral.

 

[Desseker]

Law already has COC!!!

Oda told me when Law used massed haki it was conquers haki.

The reason is because normal armament haki is when you use it on your self to negate devil fruits, law did more than that. Law was able to apply his haki on his crew mates as well so they can change from female to male.

A normal conquer blast is when you put your will onto someone else knocking them out. That what law did. He put his will or his COC on his crew mates to negate the effect of the devil fruits.

The reason this is COC and nor normal armament haki is we have seen Joyboy and Shanks do something similar or the same thing to what Law did.

.

 

[Tonix]

Kind of bored due to Golden Break so I thought I’d make a list of the top 10 strongest female characters we’ve seen in the series so far.

1) Big Mom. Don’t really think that needs explanation.

2) Yamato. When Luffy first fought Kaido he was coming in after having just beaten a warlord and two of Big Mom’s top crew mates and Kaido oneshot him. Yamato was able to actually trade blows with Kaido for a significant amount of time, which puts her at like at stronger than a warlord or a commander, but not quite Yonko level.

3) Boa. Her power is insanely broken, and she’s also extremely strong in her own right.

4) Tsuru (in her prime). This is mostly speculation, but she was part of the monster trio of the Marines during Roger’s day, and the other two members were Garp and Sengoku. Young Doffy was scared of her. And I assume she has CoC (important for #5)

5) Gunko. She just kind of auto wins against anyone without CoC due to her regeneration. She’s strong but definitely coasting off not being able to die.

6) Smoothie. Another almost pure speculation due to no real feats. Not clear if she has CoC or not.

7) Stussy (Prime or Clone) if her Clone’s abilities are similar to the original’s, she was a powerhouse. Hasn’t been shown to have Co

8) Shakky&Gloriosa. Just going to lump them together so I don’t have to make this a top 11.

9) Nami. I know it might be controversial to put her above Robin, but Zeus is such a powerful pet, and her weather magic is also super powerful.

10) Robin. She basically just roflstomped Black Maria, and was able to easily deal with 300,300 Bounty Cavendish (So like pre-timeskip Luffy/Kidd/Law)

Honorable mention to Shirahosi. She will be in the top 3 (maybe even top) if she ever manages to master her powers.

 

[Kuroiyaiba]

I can easily agree with your number one and two, placing Boa on three looks reasonable to me, but Gunko might easily be stronger than Boa.
I‘d place Bonny before Nami and behind Robin but I don’t think Nami is cut out for top 10, I‘d rather
be placing Ulti there.
Maffey and the two currently unnamed (apparently ) female God‘s Knights might also be considered as top 10 contenders.

All that said I totally love a female powerlevel top 10 ranking.

 

[Tonix]

Gunko might easily be stronger than Boa.

Idk, Gunko is only alive after getting one shot TWICE by Usopp of all people because she can regenerate. Boa having CoC makes me think she could take Gunko.

Bonny

I knew I was forgetting at least one strong female character. I’d probably put her between Smoothie and the former Empresses.

I think Monet also deserves an honorable mention. She obviously loses to anyone on the list with Haki, but I think Nami and Robin could take her as well. She has a water based body and Nami has electric attacks. She has also shown that being scared causes her to lose control of her powers, and Robin is super fucking scary, so I’d give Robin the edge over her too.

Maffey and the two currently unnamed (apparently ) female God‘s Knights might also be considered as top 10 contenders.

I also forgot about them. I guess just lump them in with Gunko, because their strength is also just their regeneration powers. None of the God Knights have done anything impressive besides regenerating so far.