One Piece Ranking System...

[beastboy]

^
I Just disagree with one thing, Sables would be able to touch Mihawk, not hurt him tough...

And that third battle was kinda lame, plot wise (Everyone knows it was awesome)...
Crocodile could have used Sables to obliterate him, use that technique he used to (almost) kill him in the 2nd battle, but he just decided to fight hand to hand against Luffy, forgive me but no one wich Luffy could touch (except for Rank 8,9 & 10) would have an easy battle against him if they decided to fight short ranged...!

 

[BlackSword]

And yet Crocodile fanboys are completely devoid of bias? All I'm able to read here is that Luffy should be able to defeat Mihawk and Doflamingo because they are on Crocs level and Luffy beat Croc?

Everything that gets quoted for "Crocodiles great power" is basically a sword clash. From what I understand here, Crocodile must be on about 5 levels at once since:

• Clashed "equally" with Doflamingo
• Clashed "equally" with Mihawk
• Clashed "equally" with Akainu
• Clashed "equally" with Luffy
• Got owned by Jozu

So Jozu > Croc, thus Jozu = level 9?

Let's look at each of these "equal clashes" though.

• Doflamingo wasn't trying to kill Croc. In fact, he was trying to recruit Croc. Since we haven't seen Doflamingo fight seriously against anything and it's clear he wasn't trying to damage Croc, they cannot be viewed as equal. Combine this with the fact that Doflamingo suffered no damage from the sandstorm and was able to block the hook with a foot like it was nothing, they cannot possibly be viewed on the same level, even if Doflamingo had no haki or didn't know about the water weakness.
• Mihawk...well I know I can often overrate the "World's strongest swordsman", but if Croc is equal because he blocked one sword slash, then Mihawk is just a large disappointment. Plus, if Mihawk had shown any real semblence of trying in the entire war Crocodiles metallic hook would be cut into pieces. And I'm saying nothing about haki here, because at the end of the day even if Croc goes around not getting damaged, it doesn't mean he automatically wins. As shocking as this is, logias do have to attack, and no attack Crocodile has would touch Mihawk.
• Haha, equal to Akainu. No argument required here, Crocodile is equal to Akainu the same way Mr 3 is equal to Magellan.
• We know Luffy is above Crocodile. Give me the luck argument all you want, it was 400 chapters ago. Any character Luffy had a difficult battle with since then should be able to evade and counter Croc with ease.
• Jozu makes the case really. Levels are not just about who beat who, but where they generally fit in comparison to EVERYONE else.

But whatever, I can see this debate could go on for some time and if there can be no clear victor it won't be updated on the ladder. Too many people are blinded by haki being the only counter to logias like hitting through intangibility is the entire battle. I spent half the war reminding people that even a haki'ed up Luffy in the war would still be melted, frozen or dodged attempting to take an admiral head on.

Crocodile:
Crocodile vs Mihawk: First off Mihawk doesn't go easy when he is in a serious situation... He almost chopped Luffy's arms off...
Crocodile vs Luffy: Luffy could only compete with Crocodile because he had massive experience fighting him and a ready supply of water... Once Aokiji froze the water getting a bunch of water to fight Crocodile would be a pain in the ass...
Crocodile vs Jozu: Your whole 'simple clash' theory goes the same for the Jozu incident... He blind sided Crocodile hitting him once... Which Crocodile got up from with minimal difficulty...

Now all and all vs Admirals and even Jozu/Mihawk it is true that Crocodile would most likely get owned... Thus they are a level higher than him... But seriously anyone level 7 or lower from what we've seen would have a damn hard time beating him... Luffy one because it was a 'Plot' device... Not because Luffy was stronger.... Like has already been stated Luffy has on every arc beat the crap out of someone who is technically stronger than he is... I mean come on even Superman could get raped by a little kid with Kryptonite... Same goes for Crocodile...

 

[St Michael]

Thanks Whissard for your useful post

@ Bittman : nobody here is trying to convince you that Croc > DF , Mihawk , Jozu or Aka Inu. He isn't , at best , he could have put a good fight. But I believe that most of the time he would lost (he would lost all the time against the latest mentionned).

But Luffy ? Seriously ? His growth between Alabasta and MF doesn't matter , since he still has no way to efficiently hit Crocodile. He would dodge easier .. but without help or water , he would end up screwed anyway. (remember that even Smoker hit him in G2.)

 

[bittman]

So basically, if I'm reading this right, Luffy beating Crocodile 400 chapters ago proves that Crocodile is stronger?

Ok, I may be appearing to ignore the two defeats Crocodile had over Luffy, but it is like saying Lucchi is stronger than Luffy because Lucchi defeated him the first time he met, and the only reason Luffy is alive is pure luck (water being sucked away, Lucchi throwing him instead of killing him, etc). At the end of the day, once Luffy found a way to abuse Crocodile's weakness (and remember, this ONLY stopped him from using the logia defence), Luffy was shown to be stronger. The same Luffy that only moments before collapsed from exhaustion was able to defeat Crocodile just by having a bit of the weakness on hand (literally).

In the WB War, water was in abundance. If you recall, Aokoji froze everything and Luffy easily found water as they crashed into it. Luffy was able to defeat Crocodile in a country where Crocodile was in his pure element. On the high seas, Crocodile would be infinitely weaker. Simply by being in a storm, or even a half decent mist, Crocodile would be weaker than potentially any Supernova introduced.

Again, you're looking too deeply into the logia defence which is VERY easily broken on Crocodile thanks to his weakness being in abundance in a world which is probably 9/10ths water.

Plus, if you look at Croc's attacks, most people above level 6 would be able to block, evade or counter them with ease. Croc's speed, power and defence (outside of logia intangibility) is all terrible minus the fact that it gives him range, which can be a rare talent, but useless if he can't keep a distance. With logia intangibility, sure his defence is up there with the rest of the logias.

P.S. "Even Smoker hit him in G2" - it was implied Smoker had grown potentially on par with Luffy. Luffy was able to somewhat outrun Smoker in Alabasta, but here in his fastest form he wasn't able to even evade. From what I saw in the war, Smoker's speed and reactions were far above Crocodile, who had only been sitting in a prison for 2-3 months.

P.P.S. Mihawk doesn't go easy? Do we remember Mihawk's first fight? That said, I do know where this train of thought comes from. Mihawk is a difficult character to properly judge the power of as his feats don't particularly match his title.

P.P.P.S. Crocodile didn't get up with minimal difficulty, I'm fairly sure it was heavily implied Doflamingo saved Crocodile from a second huge hit which could have ended the entire game for Crocodile. Doesn't look like he was getting up easily.

Anyway, as I said previously, if it's this debatable then don't bother moving him.

 

[beastboy]

I'm laughing, whenever Crocodile is in a discussion it never ends easily...

Bitman, Luffy beat Lucci while they were fighting at their bests, hand to hand in land...
Crocodile got beaten by Luffy because he didn't use his better attacks by some silly reason!

 

[Wisshard]

you just don't want accsept that Croc is on Mihawk and Doflamings level and Always has been

It's not possible, unless Crocodile deliberately allowed Arabasta Luffy to evade his attacks, and to land attacks on him.

However you slice it, Arabasta Crocodile simply hadn't good enough reaction speed to react to Mihawk's attacks or the attack speed to land attacks on Mihawk. Thus, if Crocodile truly was on par with Mihawk (and Doflamingo) during the Marinford, he must have improved tremendously during his time in Impel Down.

I doubt Doflamingo has COA or else when Crocs head came off it really would have Doflamingo is already Broken enough as it is

A very possible explanation is that Doflamingo was playing around; he didn't try to kill Crocodile, or even fought him seriously.

First off Mihawk doesn't go easy when he is in a serious situation... He almost chopped Luffy's arms off...

Mihawk is hard to read, but personally, I'm inclined to believe that there is more to the World's Strongest Swordsman than what he showed during the war.

Crocodile vs Luffy: Luffy could only compete with Crocodile because he had massive experience fighting him and a ready supply of water...

Yes, but Arabasta Luffy was able to keep up with Crocodile's speed; he landed attacks on Crocodile and successfully evaded many of Crocodile's attacks.

Consequently, G2 Luffy (and everyone who match or exceed his combat speed) would dominate Crocodile, unless Crocodile drastically improved his combat speed in Impel Down.

[Jozu] blind sided Crocodile hitting him once...

Jozu didn't blindside Crocodile; Crocodile noticed Jozu before he charged, but still couldn't react to the Brilliant Punk [1 (bottom left panels)].

But seriously anyone level 7 or lower from what we've seen would have a damn hard time beating him...

You really think G2 Luffy would have a damn hard time beating Crocodile? Or Lucci, Smoker, Zoro, Sanji, Ivankov, Crocodile, Jinbei, Vista, Shiliew and Sentoumaru?

Even assuming no one of them has CoA, Crocodile has a weakness that is easy to figure out, and barring Shiliew, all of them has shown combat speed that far exceeds Crocodile's.

 

[beastboy]

I don't think it is that easy to figure out Crocodile's weakness....
Its not like everyone has the habit of pouring water on their opponents...

BTW, and this is off topic, shouldn't Gomu Gomu no Baku Baku (when Luffy ate Crocodile) hurt Crocodile!?

 

[chess4]

personally i feel like this thread is pointless. like crocodile said, you never know how abilities will match up.

ivankov is much stronger than mr 3, but mr 3 would have a better chance at betting magellan becaus eof his wax.

enel with would have destroyed rob lucci, but pre timeskip luffy fought tooth and nail to win, but he took out enel because he was his natural enemy.

its all about matchups.....

most of the strongest people in the manga we havent seen go all out, so i think we cant make a excellent hypothesis on everyone fightings ability

 

[Wisshard]

like crocodile said, you never know how abilities will match up.

Indeed, but Haki seemingly level out the play field to an extent, since physical aptitude, martial/DF prowess and Haki matters as much for top tier logias (as well as other DF users) as for people like Zoro and (presumably) Garp.

That being said, as you say, fighting styles and abilities obviously match up differently to each other. But, in order to make good use of such advantageous fighting styles/abilities, you have to have the fighting strength to back it up.

enel with would have destroyed rob lucci

Indeed, since Lucci has no way to harm Enel. But give both basic CoA, and Lucci would treat Enel like G2 Luffy treated Marigold and Sandersonia.

 

[BlackSword]

Just a little update...
Once, we have a serious fight with the Strawhats post-time skip. I will create 2 ranking systems Pre & Post time skip. I may also make a secondary rankings for individual classes of fighters. Example: Swordsman, DF Users, Melee Fighters, ect...
If you have any ideas please feel free to leave them.

 

[Fox666]

You really think G2 Luffy would have a damn hard time beating Crocodile? Or Lucci, Smoker, Zoro, Sanji, Ivankov, Crocodile, Jinbei, Vista, Shiliew and Sentoumaru?

Even assuming no one of them has CoA, Crocodile has a weakness that is easy to figure out, and barring Shiliew, all of them has shown combat speed that far exceeds Crocodile's.

Zoro and Sanji are far weaker than Crocodile. I have no idea why do you included them in the list. I doubt they can win even if they fought together.

Crocrodile was playing with Luffy, or just did not take him serious. He managed to sneak through the Moby Dick to attack Whitebeard without any of the Whitebeard pirates noticing. He managed to confront Mihawk and Doflamingo. I just don't see why think that he is slow.

I don't think it is that easy to figure out Crocodile's weakness....
Its not like everyone has the habit of pouring water on their opponents...

Not to say that if you use water, you should have an advantage over any Devil Fruit user...

 

[El-Thor]

It's REALLY hard to create an accurate ranking system in OP.

I think ANY logia should be level 8 or higher. Rayleigh should be on the same level as admirals. Kuma should be next to Jozu or Marco. etc. etc.

 

[Fox666]

I would take precaution ranking Rayleigh at the same level of the Admirals. He just seemed unable to handle Kizaru completely. I think as him being slight below.

I would also do the same with Marco. While he can withstand them, it seems that he can't overcome them in power.

Perhaps I like the idea of Whitebeard and Roger first mates being equals?

 

[DEATHBOTT]

inazuma should be in 6.5. he seemed like quite the capable fighter. kuro should be a 1. don krieg a 0.5. helmeppo would be a 2 imo he seemed pretty good. Jango and fullbody would be 1s. and hina a 4. the demon guards of impel down a 4.5. sadichan a 4.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

It's not possible, unless Crocodile deliberately allowed Arabasta Luffy to evade his attacks, and to land attacks on him.

However you slice it, Arabasta Crocodile simply hadn't good enough reaction speed to react to Mihawk's attacks or the attack speed to land attacks on Mihawk. Thus, if Crocodile truly was on par with Mihawk (and Doflamingo) during the Marinford, he must have improved tremendously during his time in Impel Down.


A very possible explanation is that Doflamingo was playing around; he didn't try to kill Crocodile, or even fought him seriously.


Mihawk is hard to read, but personally, I'm inclined to believe that there is more to the World's Strongest Swordsman than what he showed during the war.


Yes, but Arabasta Luffy was able to keep up with Crocodile's speed; he landed attacks on Crocodile and successfully evaded many of Crocodile's attacks.

Consequently, G2 Luffy (and everyone who match or exceed his combat speed) would dominate Crocodile, unless Crocodile drastically improved his combat speed in Impel Down.


Jozu didn't blindside Crocodile; Crocodile noticed Jozu before he charged, but still couldn't react to the Brilliant Punk [1 (bottom left panels)].



You really think G2 Luffy would have a damn hard time beating Crocodile? Or Lucci, Smoker, Zoro, Sanji, Ivankov, Crocodile, Jinbei, Vista, Shiliew and Sentoumaru?

Even assuming no one of them has CoA, Crocodile has a weakness that is easy to figure out, and barring Shiliew, all of them has shown combat speed that far exceeds Crocodile's.

Crocodle would crush the entire list you named by trying

he never tried in any of his fights he avoided Luffy's attacks unless they cought him off guard when gear 2 luffy attacked Croc he avoided that too

 

[bittman]

Crocodle would crush the entire list you named by trying

he never tried in any of his fights he avoided Luffy's attacks unless they cought him off guard when gear 2 luffy attacked Croc he avoided that too

Hahaha.

Do you see you're problem here? "Crocodile wasn't trying", so that I say "Oh Luffy wasn't trying" or "Oh, Mihawk wasn't trying"

"<INSERTCHARNAMEHERE> wasn't trying, so he can crush everyone because we can imagine fantastic scenarios of their power."

The best counter to the above is Moria. Moria can one-shot things by cutting their shadows, he should be the most broken character in the world, but it doesn't appear he uses it quite as well as we imagine he could actually use it. (Heck, he keeps using that bloody crap Shadows Asgard move like it's "good").

Show any evidence that Crocodile was not trying in any aforementioned battles (particularly in the WB war) and I'll believe this argument.

@ El-Thor: yeah it can be difficult to rank people properly when we've seen so much more of some, and very little of others. The only beings in One Piece you could probably accurately rank would be the Strawhats, and perhaps the enemies they soundly defeated in comparison to each other. Technically, we haven't seen much of everyone else (Shichibukai, Admirals, Yonkou, Supernovas, etc).

 

[DEATHBOTT]

wapol is a 0.5. drake and hawkins i reckon should be 5.5, they seemed stronger than the other supernovas.

 

[Wisshard]

Zoro and Sanji are far weaker than Crocodile. I have no idea why do you included them in the list. I doubt they can win even if they fought together.

I included Zoro and Sanji because their combat prowess right before the time skip is much higher than Arabasta Luffy, and subsequently, they should have the tools (especially with Asura and Diable Jambe, respectively) to deal with Crocodile until they figure out his weakness (which, for Sanji at least, shouldn't take too long).

Crocrodile was playing with Luffy, or just did not take him serious.

So, basically your argument is that Crocodile deliberately allowed Luffy to dodge his attacks, and hit him?

Bottom line is, by all appearance, Crocodile's combat speed is about on par with Arabasta Luffy.

He managed to sneak through the Moby Dick to attack Whitebeard without any of the Whitebeard pirates noticing.

The Whitebeard commanders were occupied by Admirals, VA's and what not, and fodder will always be fodder.

He managed to confront Mihawk and Doflamingo. I just don't see why think that he is slow.

As I pointed out before, either Doflamingo and Mihawk wasn't fighting seriously, they don't possess CoA or Crocodile improved hell of a lot in combat speed in Impel Down.

I don't see any merit in continuing this debate. I've laid out my reasoning, and why I'm inclined to believe that Mihawk and Doflamingo wasn't fighting seriously rather than the alternatives, and you are free to disagree.

he never tried in any of his fights he avoided Luffy's attacks unless they cought him off guard

In their third fight, Crocodile wasn't caught off guard by anything Luffy threw at him; he simply didn't have the reaction speed to comfortably evade all of (Arabasta) Luffy's attacks.

when gear 2 luffy attacked Croc he avoided that too

As I already pointed out, that was anime filler.

 

[Lord Rayleigh]

You really think G2 Luffy would have a damn hard time beating Crocodile? Or Lucci, Smoker, Zoro, Sanji, Ivankov, Crocodile, Jinbei, Vista, Shiliew and Sentoumaru?

Even assuming no one of them has CoA, Crocodile has a weakness that is easy to figure out, and barring Shiliew, all of them has shown combat speed that far exceeds Crocodile's.

Don't lose your mind, Crocodile is not of one the main strongest characters of One Piece but still he is not someone that can easily get beaten, especially by the people you quoted. That's why, even though he had skirmichs against some Whitebeard Pirates, Jozu, Doflamingo, Mihawk and Akainu, he was still standing after the end of the battle of Marineford. Unlike you think, I doubt that anyone can bypass his intangibility power with Haki or know his weakness.

It also seems that you forgot that Crocodile is a dangerous man and can ALSO be a threat to his foe. His sand logia gives him really great powers : very long range attacks such as Desert Spada, and awesome close attacks such as the dehydratation that can beat people in the blink of an eye.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Hahaha.

Do you see you're problem here? "Crocodile wasn't trying", so that I say "Oh Luffy wasn't trying" or "Oh, Mihawk wasn't trying"

"<INSERTCHARNAMEHERE> wasn't trying, so he can crush everyone because we can imagine fantastic scenarios of their power."

The best counter to the above is Moria. Moria can one-shot things by cutting their shadows, he should be the most broken character in the world, but it doesn't appear he uses it quite as well as we imagine he could actually use it. (Heck, he keeps using that bloody crap Shadows Asgard move like it's "good").

Show any evidence that Crocodile was not trying in any aforementioned battles (particularly in the WB war) and I'll believe this argument.

@ El-Thor: yeah it can be difficult to rank people properly when we've seen so much more of some, and very little of others. The only beings in One Piece you could probably accurately rank would be the Strawhats, and perhaps the enemies they soundly defeated in comparison to each other. Technically, we haven't seen much of everyone else (Shichibukai, Admirals, Yonkou, Supernovas, etc).

time to rephrase he was not trying in the Luffy Fights
Mihawk and Doflamingo were not trying is Wisshards lousy argument about why they could not beat croc

Croc was not trying in the Luffy fights

fight 1 Croc waited around for 2 minutes then Impaled him once the time was up

fight 2 Croc was just dodging attacks instead of Spaming Dessert Espada or Sables to destroy every thing around him and felt like giving Luffy a chance then he got tired of it and sucked every thing Dry inculding Luffy in a few seconds
Fight 3 Croc did not use his powers for gods sake until it was too late he could have used Sables and destroyed the cave at the start of the fight