My logia idea,
- Tart logia
- mist logia
- cloud logia
- blood logia
- most logia (weaker vers from forest),
I hope Oda not just focus on mythical zoan more.
You got a point there. And also technically Kizaru's and Enel's fruitsare overlapping way too much. In the end light and lightning both track down to the manipulation of electrons so Kizaru VS Enel should be a wild fight as they should be able to manipulate / influence each other with their respective DF powers.
Guess them teaming up might be even wilder.
My logia idea,
- Tart logia
- mist logia
- cloud logia
- blood logia
- most logia (weaker vers from forest),
I hope Oda not just focus on mythical zoan more.
I get mist, cloud and even blood logia but tart and most? What would tart logia even do? You would be a "pastry" person? And what is "most" in context of logia power? Sorry for asking about THAT specificly but english is my second language and I don't understand what "most" have to do with forest.
Btw, if we share logia idea they how about "star logia"? You know, fruit that would give you power of various stars and even ability to control certain cosmic phenomenons like gravity, magnetizm or even light. In case of last two I mean in more advanced way than Kidd and Kizaru use those powers. I think that would be pretty cool power to have.
I get mist, cloud and even blood logia but tart and most? What would tart logia even do? You would be a "pastry" person? And what is "most" in context of logia power? Sorry for asking about THAT specificly but english is my second language and I don't understand what "most" have to do with forest.
Btw, if we share logia idea they how about "star logia"? You know, fruit that would give you power of various stars and even ability to control certain cosmic phenomenons like gravity, magnetizm or even light. In case of last two I mean in more advanced way than Kidd and Kizaru use those powers. I think that would be pretty cool power to have.
Probably but I think mist fruit would be weaker ver of cloud fruit. You know, because you could use cloud power to create the weather conditions like Nami do it thanks to her clima takt but mist would just make it harder to see and would be just moist.
I get mist, cloud and even blood logia but tart and most? What would tart logia even do? You would be a "pastry" person? And what is "most" in context of logia power? Sorry for asking about THAT specificly but english is my second language and I don't understand what "most" have to do with forest.
Btw, if we share logia idea they how about "star logia"? You know, fruit that would give you power of various stars and even ability to control certain cosmic phenomenons like gravity, magnetizm or even light. In case of last two I mean in more advanced way than Kidd and Kizaru use those powers. I think that would be pretty cool power to have.
Sory, english also my 2nd language, i mean mosses, its maybe useless thought, n i plan to write crude oil, i dont know why i write tart, maybe because its already past midnight here.
Sure, but clouds and mist are literally the same thing. The only difference between them is in altitude. There's no meaningful difference between them in any way. Obviously ice and snow are the same at the molecular level but there's a material difference in how they are presented. If the suggestion was, say, steam which is hot, vs cloud this is somewhat more justified.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
OHHH, tar, not tart. Ok. A tar logia would actually check out as natural tar pits exist in nature.
Sure, but clouds and mist are literally the same thing. The only difference between them is in altitude. There's no meaningful difference between them in any way. Obviously ice and snow are the same at the molecular level but there's a material difference in how they are presented.
And Smoke is composed of multiple gasses, and Soot is what smoke turns into. Technically if Ceasar mastered his fruit he would have Smoker and the Crow Guy’s powers, and Smoker should be able to control soot/Crow Guy should be able to turn Smoker’s smoke into soot.
Sure, but clouds and mist are literally the same thing. The only difference between them is in altitude. There's no meaningful difference between them in any way. Obviously ice and snow are the same at the molecular level but there's a material difference in how they are presented. If the suggestion was, say, steam which is hot, vs cloud this is somewhat more justified.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
OHHH, tar, not tart. Ok. A tar logia would actually check out as natural tar pits exist in nature.
For sake of discussion, snow and ice are different because of altitude. Snow is water vapor freezing and keeping gas. Ice is water freezing with majority of gas getting pushed out. My point is that if we break them down, we'll see that it gets a bit silly to split hairs.
Human experience-wise, though, fog and clouds are different to the human experience. Fog inovkes feelings of dread, fear, and creepiness. Clouds, assuming the natural white one, invokes feelings of whimsy, freedom, and peace.
If Oda is a touchy-feely type, he could differentiate between the two and come up with justifications afterward.
All that said, I do think I side more with kkck on this, because I do think it would open needless questions if we had to try to figure out what ODA thinks is the distinction.
On Tonix's point, we are already dangerously close to this territory with soot and smoke.
Also, I would say Caesar is the singlemost highly skilled Logia, both because he was smart enough to modify his fruit, and because his mastery of his casual element is the highest that we have seen.
The other contenders are maybe Enel and Crocodile, for different reasons. (Going off of my memory. I might be forgetting critical little details.)
And Smoke is composed of multiple gasses, and Soot is what smoke turns into. Technically if Ceasar mastered his fruit he would have Smoker and the Crow Guy’s powers, and Smoker should be able to control soot/Crow Guy should be able to turn Smoker’s smoke into soot.
If only Caesar wasn't such an eccentric slop he should have managed to take over the whole world properly utilizing his DF. IMO he has the most broken logia and one of the most broken DF's of the whole story.
If only Caesar wasn't such an eccentric slop he should have managed to take over the whole world properly utilizing his DF. IMO he has the most broken logia and one of the most broken DF's of the whole story.
He made weapons of mass destruction that people were eager to buy. I think Caesar didn't want to really rule anything. He just wanted money, much like Vegapunk. There is a certain class of villain that realizes its safer to flourish in a status quo than take it over.
Evil's greatest friend is relative peace.
He made weapons of mass destruction that people were eager to buy. I think Caesar didn't want to really rule anything. He just wanted money, much like Vegapunk. There is a certain class of villain that realizes its safer to flourish in a status quo than take it over.
Evil's greatest friend is relative peace.
For sake of discussion, snow and ice are different because of altitude. Snow is water vapor freezing and keeping gas. Ice is water freezing with majority of gas getting pushed out. My point is that if we break them down, we'll see that it gets a bit silly to split hairs.
Human experience-wise, though, fog and clouds are different to the human experience. Fog inovkes feelings of dread, fear, and creepiness. Clouds, assuming the natural white one, invokes feelings of whimsy, freedom, and peace.
If Oda is a touchy-feely type, he could differentiate between the two and come up with justifications afterward.
All that said, I do think I side more with kkck on this, because I do think it would open needless questions if we had to try to figure out what ODA thinks is the distinction.
On Tonix's point, we are already dangerously close to this territory with soot and smoke.
Also, I would say Caesar is the singlemost highly skilled Logia, both because he was smart enough to modify his fruit, and because his mastery of his casual element is the highest that we have seen.
The other contenders are maybe Enel and Crocodile, for different reasons. (Going off of my memory. I might be forgetting critical little details.)
I don't have that high of an opinion on caesar. He was never really a threat to the strawhats through the arc. The only reason he appeared to be a threat is because luffy dropped his guard like a jackass. But in any other scenario even at that point in time luffy, zoro and sanji can one shot him basically. I doubt he has a chance against even mid level haki users in the new world. He has some neat tricks due to him applying his scientific knowledge with his fruit but ultimately isn't really a warrior. I don't think he'd win against, say, pekons.
Crocodile was hailed as a insanely skilled fruit user when introduced though I am not sure to how he'd be scaled to modern fruit users. Even if his skill with his fruit made sense at this point in the story, I wouldn't put my money on him being more skilled at using his fruit than, say, admirals. And I would argue that anyone with awakening is more skilled with his fruit than someone without awakening.
I don't have that high of an opinion on caesar. He was never really a threat to the strawhats through the arc. The only reason he appeared to be a threat is because luffy dropped his guard like a jackass. But in any other scenario even at that point in time luffy, zoro and sanji can one shot him basically. I doubt he has a chance against even mid level haki users in the new world. He has some neat tricks due to him applying his scientific knowledge with his fruit but ultimately isn't really a warrior. I don't think he'd win against, say, pekons.
Crocodile was hailed as a insanely skilled fruit user when introduced though I am not sure to how he'd be scaled to modern fruit users. Even if his skill with his fruit made sense at this point in the story, I wouldn't put my money on him being more skilled at using his fruit than, say, admirals. And I would argue that anyone with awakening is more skilled with his fruit than someone without awakening.
Thanks for the reply. I'll give my thoughts on how I see it and give my examples, but this is one where the smallest detail could be really cool, so if you have some counter example, please let me know.
Okay so I want to premise that there is a difference between being skilled and being powerful. It's why people commonly make the distinction of "weak but skilled" as a character archetype. So in that framework, here is why Caesar and Crocodile have their distinctions. Crocodile is the easiest.
Crocodile:
Only logia in existence that has demonstrated a unique ability locked to his right hand specifically. Moisture absorption. This ability doesnt make sense under current logia paradigms. It being locked to the hand doesnt make sense. it playing around with moisture doesnt super make sense in the sense that the actual heatbased fruits are unable to provoke a similar response. Where is the moisture going? It's not going to Crocodile, because even drops of blood hard counter him. It's not like he's putting his hand down and spreading sand, but that drawing in of water into his body is moving his fruit away from a sand fruit, and more a desertfication fruit, which itself begins to encroach on the biome logias that Aramaki and Caribo have.
Biome magnification, in where his power provokes the natural desert environment to become worse with sandstorms. Maybe this is an ability that is knocking on the door of a logia awakening. Maybe it's just getting smart with what he can stir up.
Caesar:
Gas synthesis to the point that he can synthesize any gas he wants and also its antidote, as an expression of his mastery over the subject matter. The only other logia that can demonstrate a wide range of expression on their field is Aramaki, since he can produce multiple expressions of plant life. That said, because caesar can produce even chemicals that he himself synthesized, he is in another league.
Meanwhile Ace and Sabo, for example, have never produced blue fire, which is the common upgrade for fire characters. This may be a case of not all logias are born equal.
Oxygen (and ambient gas) absorption
So, Caesar can remove the ambient element around him. To the best of my knowledge, we have not seen any other logia remove their logia element, that existed in a space without them generating it. Or in other words, we havent seen something like Ace go to a burning boat and draw the flames into their bodies, or Aokiji go to random ice and draw it into his body.
Caesar so far, is the only one (to the best of my knowledge) who will acitvely remove gas that he didnt produce. This power is maybe closer to Crocodile, though Crocodile still gets distinction for drawing in something that isnt his element.
Casual element production and control at all times--
this one depends on the reader, but generally in shonen, this sort of thing would be considered a focus exercise, such that the logic would be that if you're constantly engaging let's say the emission muscle, you're constantly training it. Under this rationale, the only other person who might constantly be engaging their power and a manifestation of it is Karasu.
The monster form--
I personally dont find this to be an expression of high skill, but I will put it here for fairness, while also pointing out that others have similar forms. (Enel, Aramkai.)
One could say that it took Luffy some time to figure out his altered modes, so we could say that the modes for the others have a equivalent level of difficulty and understanding of their bodies to pull off, with proper distinctions made for G2/G3 vs Luffy actual "monster" mode in Gear 4.
So, the synthesis aspect is by far the most busted. Because this one incorporates actual knowledge of chemistry, it qualifies for high skill. It is quite literally the most "I achieved mastery by studying" expression of high skill. In synthesis alone, Caesar is king.
In (ambient) element manipulation, Caesar is high up there.
Honorable mention for Enel, he is the only logia to have combined observation haki into his fruit to gain the unique ability to be aware of electro magnetic radiation. This is without a doubt a high-skill application, and the only person who can rival him in the category of "Devil Fruit-Haki integration, general" is Luffy, with the guys who coat their df emissions in haki very distant competitors.
Regarding your last thought on Awakenings, I think I would agree, and thats why I took care to say "his mastery of his casual element is the highest that we have seen."
I wasn't super confident on the awakenings since we've only seen maybe their consequences.
I would contend, however, that if the Logia awakenings are marked by the ability to permanently change an environment, then Crocodile is once more knocking on the door of that ability. It's possible that crocodile's explanation is the mechanical breakdown of how an awakening works on a more detailed level. I wouldnt call Croc's an awakening, but I would be very comfortable saying that right hand ability is an omen of the awakening being nearby. And because Croc is a new world level pirate, he is probably going to show that Awakening during final war.
Thanks again for the chat.
If we wanted to have fun, we could tabulate all the unique features the Logias have shown us. There's one category that Kizaru and Karasu are very good at, for example, that wasnt really covered here.
