Match Oni (Without Kishin or PoP) vs Sanada

[-Ken-]

Well, I think this could be a good match right now. We knows that Sanada seem to around the same level or higher than #6 with his black aura. Putting in Kishin or PoP will obviously make this match scale 6-0, so let's leave that out.

How do you think Oni will fare? I don't know if he can return Black Aura. But then Sanada couldn't return 10 ball strike either as far as we know. Do 10 ball reaction time give him enough reaction time to handle black aura?

 

[Phantron]

I've seen no indication that Sanada tries to make impossible shots with black aura, like say hit a ball straight down the middle and then make a 90 degree turn as soon as it crosses the net. So as long as he doesn't do that, the black aura is just an equivalent of a hard to hit 2-ball, and Oni can hit 10-ball easy. X-ball by definition is faster reaction time than an equivalent number of X-turns from black aura because X-ball can hit that many balls at the exact same time, while each turn from the black aura is sequential so it'd give the opponent more time to prepare for it versus the X-ball which hits all X spots at the same time.

Now it's an open question why doesn't Sanada just do an impossible shot with black aura in the first place.

 

[Kaoz]

Maybe he can't swing the racket fast enough to do something like what you described?

 

[Phantron]

Maybe he can't swing the racket fast enough to do something like what you described?

Possibly, and in that case black aura will be quite useless against 10-ball that can easily cover the entire baseline axis.

 

[Kaoz]

Yeah, I agree. I can only see it being problematic for Oni if Sanada launches the ball into the sky again, not sure if 10BS would cover that too.

 

[-Ken-]

Hmm, those argument all make senses. I wonder if Sanada vs Ohmagari thread would have been a closer match.

 

[iceemperor]

Oni is shown to be on par with byoudoin even without PoP or Kishin. He destroyed a 3rd court player without any of those even though takei's skills can be called into question. He also destroyed kaji without either of those. Sanada has just begun using black aura. I think Oni can easily return the clutch and fuurinkainzanrai.

 

[Kaoz]

Byoudouin got a lot stronger since their first encounter, and Oni did need Kijin at the end of that match or he would've lost. I think it's also very likely that Oni used Kijin against Kaji.

 

[iceemperor]

Even so Oni does not need either to beat sanada. It's just worlds apart. We have ohmagari stomping both him and akutsu even if they both weren't exactly playing like a doubles pair. Oni is above ohmagari and could just as easily stomp them both. At this point Sanada is outclassed by oni though after the World Cup this might not be the case.

 

[Hardy]

Wasn't Oni without Kijin as good as Tanegashima (you know, they never lost/won against each other) who destroyed BA! Sanada?

 

[Kaoz]

Wasn't Oni without Kijin as good as Tanegashima (you know, they never lost/won against each other) who destroyed BA! Sanada?

I used to think this too, but I've changed my mind recently. Primarily because I feel we might be thinking too much into it by applying limiters to Oni when the conversation he had and Tanegashima had was pretty much a blanket statement, but also because what's the next step down from Kijin!Oni? 10BS!Oni - Kintarou played evenly with this guy (and Kaji may have been better) and I do not see Kintarou anywhere near Tanegashima.

 

[Hardy]

I dunno man. I like Tanegashima but you really think he wouldn't lose against Kijin! Oni? I mean Kintarou being better than pre-Kijin Oni kinda screws this completely, but Tanegashima being as good as people that use interdimensional powers* isn't that much better either.

*I still don't consider the GS one of them >_>

 

[Kaoz]

I can't say that I particularly like the idea of it, but after reevaluating the information we have I think it's more likely than not. And he is the No. 2, so it's not completely unbelievable.

 

[Hardy]

True, but what would you say if it was Duke the one that was on par with Kijin Oni? He's the no. 3 after all.

 

[Kaoz]

I don't know? So far, nothing has implied that he is, so there's no reason to assume it. However, even if it was, we'd have to accept it. That said, at the moment I'd see Duke closer to this Oni/Tanegashima group than the Kaji/Ohmagari group.

 

[Hardy]

Fair enough then.

Alright so, let's see. Anything Sanada has (except BA) should be reflected with Oni's BJK, right? Just like Tanegashima did it, so not even Rai would give troubles to Oni.

Now then BA is a different case. Ohmagari (who should be around the Oni we're discussing) needed 2 rackets to barely return the shot, right? What could Oni possibly do against it? As it was discussed before, maybe 10bao could be enough (I'm not a fan of the thought that BA=2 balls, Phantrom. At this point we should think that Tanegashima > 3bao right? ._. ) to return it. But on the other hand, what can Sanada do to return Oni's 10 bao? What was his record, 5 bao?

 

[Kaoz]

Yeah, Sanada's best is 5ao. Judging by the reaction from the Kintarou match, 10BS is also fairly dangerous if you can't return it, so even assuming they're trading points, Sanada might be on the losing side. Regarding Rai though, I think Tanegashima's special vision helped him return it cleanly since Rai's path is unpredictable? In which case it would be something Oni can't do.

I guess this would beg the question if we're talking about a one set or a three set match here since I don't think Sanada could use Rai for that long.

 

[Hardy]

Mmm true, the fanbook says that Tanegashima has a great vision for fast moving objects thanks to riding on his segway (...lol) and there's nothing to support that Oni should be able to do the same. HOWEVER... neither does Yukimura, who returned it before having camp training, right?

I dunno man, I can see Oni winning in a 1 set match too.

Even if Oni can't return Rai (which I doubt) Sanada can't return 10 bao either, so I don't see how he'd be superior in a 1 set match. By the tie break his legs will... break, and it should be a win for Oni.

 

[Kaoz]

I more meant that Rai probably won't last over three sets, just that it might be enough for one. I didn't mean to imply he would definitely win in that case. I don't know if Oni would be able to touch Rai or not, but he would have it harder than Tanegashima for sure. Regarding Yukimura, he's special - if you read his profile again, it's like half his stats don't even matter, he can just return every special move because ???

 

[Hardy]

I know what you mean with Yukimura being special (after all, being able to simply return every is kind of his thing), but I dunno, considering his rallies with Fuwa I don't think that the thought of Oni being as good as him at returning shots is too crazy. He can hit the SSS rather easily after all (I'm aware that Momo kinda does it too but... eh, I dunno ._. ).

Also, well, I wouldn't ignore the fact that Yukimura has a 6 in mental and tech as if it didn't matter ^^