Shounen Orient by Shinobu Ohtaka

[Eastgrove]

I think rather than a death flag, the probability he'll abandon the Fortress and leave everyone to die is high. Not because of cowardice or selfishness, but pragmatism. If you look at everyone and everything as war material, civilians certainly have their place, but safeguarding comes at a cost.

 

[Haya-san]

I think rather than a death flag, the probability he'll abandon the Fortress and leave everyone to die is high. Not because of cowardice or selfishness, but pragmatism. If you look at everyone and everything as war material, civilians certainly have their place, but safeguarding comes at a cost.

I too have been thinking, if he’s not meant to die, then he might do something pretty heartless that will drive Tsugumi to leave him and join the duo. Another option is to leave all the metal to distract the demons and escape with everyone, but that would mean abandoning everything he gained so far and being out of the unifying Japan game.

Also, this week’s issue was a double issue and the magazine will be on break next week because of the Bon festival.

 

[Eastgrove]

I too have been thinking, if he’s not meant to die, then he might do something pretty heartless that will drive Tsugumi to leave him and join the duo. Another option is to leave all the metal to distract the demons and escape with everyone, but that would mean abandoning everything he gained so far and being out of the unifying Japan game.

Also, this week’s issue was a double issue and the magazine will be on break next week because of the Bon festival.

The protagonists also need a proper launch point for a long term goal. I don't think it can be said they've really broken away from their childish games of pretending to be Bushi. There's been no transition from back then and reality. So them determining to not be that guy and what he's done would be the start of a proper...start.

 

[crystalblade13]

I've avoided spoilers for everything. I think imma try to keep doing this. Just read chapter 10. Interesting how the inside of the bushi headquarters is. Is it just magic of some kind that allows it to be so big on the inside? Pretty interesting, I think these things can kinda be like the dungeons for ohtaka, an excuse to draw some really wacky and cool environments lol.

I'm glad too for the slower pace. I think ohtaka always does a nice job in the slower, character-interaction focused scenes. The theif girl seems nice, and I liked her conversation with musashi, I hope his backstory that they are hinting at is interesting. Not just "my parents were killed by the oni, so they must die". Also interesting that she seems wary of her own bushi. That expression she made wasn't a happy one.

I also very much liked the comedy. Just as a side note. I think the series is getting a lot more interesting now that we've went full adventure mode!

 

[Haya-san]

The first volume was out today and we got the Takeda in color:

Spoiler

I thought Naotora’s hair color would be brownish red, but it’s blue. I also noticed that the color of the Takeda family crest on his armor is blue, while his subordinates is red.

 

[Laminariales]

Huh, not at all what expected but pleasant, blue hair yellow eyes? and the silver haired girl is cute! I never seen ohtaka use that color (Tsugumi your probably pink hair expectations have rose)

Apperently the illust is the back cover, nice contrast to the red front

Spoiler

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 18, 2018, Original Post Date: Aug 17, 2018 ---

TSUGUMI COLOR SCHEME! (spoiler for ch 12 I guess? just the title)
http://moetron.net/post/177094968310/orient-manga-color-spread

Spoiler: reaction

Not pink hair! if the takeda girl was bluish silver tsugumi is greenish white? anywho with the pink very visually pleasing, we can't see the weapon colors though. hmm I want to start compiling the color spreads now

 

[airmattress]

Ohhh I like those colors! Though I can already tell, with that color scheme the anime designers are just gonna dump a layer of cyan on her and call it a day.

 

[Haya-san]

Ch 12

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Summary:

Spoiler

-Tsugumi asks the duo to lend them their power, she explains about the misunderstanding earlier and how her boss thought they were first-class samurais. She reveals that the bikes are fragments of the defeated kishins and necessary to battle the demons. It’s not clear if the fragments are the bikes or bikes are made of them.

-what’s heading toward the castle is not a kishin, but many, many weaker demons. Musashi and Kojirou decide to fight them, but Tsugumi mocks their overconfidence. She asks if they challenged a tornado before, and tells them those swarms of demons are like that. She reveals the plan to mobolize the whole fortress. She says their original plan was to run away and think of a plan and trails off. The duo become shocked that everyone is going to fight until the last one. Musashi then points out that she’s been sweating while clutching her clothes and urges her to speak her mind. Tsugumi’s urge to please Hideo and her desire to protect evryone begin to clash within her and she runs from the room, blaming the duo for confusing her.

-she bumps into Hideo who had noticed her absence. Tsugumi reassures him that she’s alright, and he notes how worked up she is and issues his next command to her: to tell everyone to prepare to fight. To take up their weapons, challenge the demons and fight them heroically. Once again, Tsugumi’s feelings clash and she recalls her big sister, who’s urging her to be brave. She then tells Hideo that she won’t do it, and to her shock, Hideo begins to cry for being such an ingrate daughter. He picks her up by her collar like a kitten and tells her to get out of the fort. He begins to play with her mind that she can’t live without him. After panicking at his words, she gives in(?) and tells him she can’t bear being alone and asks him to let go of her. He pats her on her head, repeating that she can’t do anything without him and can’t live by herself. As he leaves the hallway, Tsugumi becomes angry at her pathetic self and makes up her mind that she must leave him. Morning comes and the demons have reached the castle. It seems the next chapter will also be about Tsugumi’s sister

 

[airmattress]

I've been meaning to say ever since the final arc of Magi, but man these overly exaggerated expressions just kill all the tension and drama for me. Like you don't need the characters to be drenched in sweat and tears and have deformed faces almost every single panel to get the point across. It's as if everyone just goes from 0 to a 100 in one panel and starts going crazy. I really don't like that because for 1, these reactions are usually so overblown that it kinda gets cringey, and 2, I feel like there emotions need to be built up more and the way that Ohtaka's doing it now makes it seem like every issue has the same weight to it cause everyone just goes crazy right off the bat. At least tone down the sweating.

Tl,dr this manga lacks any sort of subtlety.

And are we ever gonna get a chapter without the obligatory "someone pointing with their finger panel"? I seriously need to make a compilation of this at some point lol

 

[Laminariales]

I've been meaning to say ever since the final arc of Magi, but man these overly exaggerated expressions just kill all the tension and drama for me

Have the same problem but different effect, feel stressed all though the chapter but nothing happened yet xD I guess because most characters so far have been more towards the yasashi axis than kitsui (according to the ohtaka graph), we'll need few more stoic looking people to show up.

And so she have a sister, I like siblings stories so that's a good title for upcoming issue. Hope she doesn't look exactly like her since ohtaka's siblings designs are good, but she might get lazy since the sister is dead. As for hideo I'd lie to say I didn't skip a beat the first panel he showed up, dammit physical beauty! I though he was her father for a second feel stupid xD Since he issued the order I wonder about the ending of this arc, will he be redeamed? the MCs ganna take over the castle? the castle will somehow dismantle? P.S. at last, poor kojirou this is the second time she hurts him, since musashi doesn't have a sword he might get to shine a bit next chapter

The mob enemies are coming, although I don't know what to expect from the last page, are they giant cats? moles? just the plain natural disaster or is there someone to unleash them?

 

[Haya-san]

^ it seems after Gyokuen, Ohtaka developed a liking for drawing exaggerated expressions. Someone needs to point it out to her that she’s going a bit overboard with it. Ohtaka got a lot of potential as a manga author, but I felt like she needed someone to point out her strengths and what makes her mangas enjoyable.

Spoiler: Magi

Magi had crazy potential as a manga with different civilizations and cultures and Ohtaka had a knack for politics and portraying adventures and relationships. Stuff like white/black rukhs and the metaphysical stuff toward the end did nothing but overcomplicate the story IMO and distracted Ohtaka from focusing on what made Magi so loved in the first place. I hope she realized this after Magi.

About the text in the color spread:

The editor/PR guy really needs to tone it down and keep it consistent. A few issues ago, they said everyone in Japan is crazy about this manga and how popular it is, and here they say it became very popular due to Tsugumi. While it’s true the opinions on this manga became more positive with the start of the new arc and Tsugumi is getting a lot of love, the reactions to the first arc were so mixed and a lot of people were comparing it to Magi. Shounen Sunday did the same when they made it like the final arc was so popular and it was ‘exceeding expectations’, and reality was the opposite.

Spoiler: ch 12

Judging by the bell hair accessory, Tsugumi's sister might have been a member of the Kosameda samurais. I wonder if she had a relationship with Hideo. It seems that even though they had the option to retreat, Hideo wants to fight the demons no matter what. He has those Jamil vibes, and it's possible there's a reason why he become mentally/emotionally unstable.

Spoiler: Magi

Another thing that bothers, why did Ohtaka gave him a beauty spot on the chin and name similar to Hakuyuu? There might not be any deep reason behind his design, but I can't help but think Hakuyuu might have had a dark side that we and maybe the Kou bros didn't know about. He was a black rukh personality type, like Sinbad and Arba.

I do hope Ohtaka is planning a good character development for Musashi. He doesn't annoy me to the point I want to drop this manga, but he doesn't really interest me that much. There are mangas where the protag is boring and the characters around him and the storyline are what makes you continue reading, but I want him to get better.

Also, read this on manga pocket, but some people say that due to her switching publishers, Ohtaka might be trying to cater to the Shounen Magazine readership.

 

[Laminariales]

Spoiler: Magi out of the way

Idk I remember with the start of magi in the BSs ohtaka commented people with slanted eyes are easier for her to draw, which is why beside the main two most characters were more stoic, (mor, sinbad, kassim), but maybe by the end of magi as an artist it isn't an issue anymore, all the characters so far are quite elaborate. or theory 2 she shifted all her facial expression needs toward arba and madaar .

As for hakuyuu, unrelated to your comment but I'm annoyed by people who over idolize them I believe if they were alive they'll do exactly what EnMei did and actually fall short because they didn't own djinns, they were some 18/21 y/o boys princes like I'm sure they are fine people but not angels. Back to hideo he have the sche/titus beauty spot as well though

The editors are annoying but that's always the case with side comments, actually what happened to rugby helmet editor guy from ohtaka's first volumes omakes, I mess him. I dk these two seams nice but sometime you need a bat. I'm not sure what kind if shounen magazine audience are that removed from sunday though? it's quite varied they carry fumetsu no anata e even <3 actually this magazine > sunday for me since I only watch conan as an anime

Ho I forget the sister must have been part of the army, if hideo caused her death in unnecessary way it might give tsugumi the strength to launch a rebellion

 

[Haya-san]

Spoiler: Magi out of the way

As for hakuyuu, unrelated to your comment but I'm annoyed by people who over idolize them I believe if they were alive they'll do exactly what EnMei did and actually fall short because they didn't own djinns, they were some 18/21 y/o boys princes like I'm sure they are fine people but not angels. Back to hideo he have the sche/titus beauty spot as well though

Spoiler: Magi and off-topic

Well, they were introduced as some sort of heroes and that image kind of stuck with people, but yeah. I like them, but it bothers me how some people put them on a pedestal and that they would've ruled Kou so differently and so much better than the Kou bros if they were alive. It reminds me when there were opinions that one day, Hakuei would realize that she had been wrong for following Kouen and would betray him and join Sinbad, who was thought to be more close to her brothers. To be fair, at that time, we didn't know much about the relationship between YuuRen and the Kou bros and Sinbad's true intentions, so the idea might have sounded plausible to them. And btw, I would've accepted it if she joined Hakuryuu in volume 15, it's just Sinbad that I wouldn't accept lol!

The Kou bros weren't saints, but the truth is, both the ideals of the Kou bros and Hakuei were greatly influenced by Hakutoku and YuuRen. The only difference is them not challenging Arba, but as we know, Sinbad too allied with her despite what Althamen did to him, and the only one who could've defeated her in the end was Aladdin after a big power-up.

I think Ohtaka originally intended to reveal stuff about the princes that we didn't know, but like Sinbad's third spy, that plot got scrapped in the end.

 

[Laminariales]

Spoiler: Magi and off-topic

Well, they were introduced as some sort of heroes and that image kind of stuck with people, but yeah. I like them, but it bothers me how some people hold them on a pedestal and that they would've ruled Kou so differently and sooo much better than the Kou bros if they were alive. It reminds me when there were opinions that one day, Hakuei would realize that she had been wrong for following Kouen and would betray him and join Sinbad, who is more close to her brothers. And btw, I would've accepted it if she joined Hakuryuu in volume 15, it's just Sinbad that I wouldn't accept lol! The Kou bros weren't saints, but the truth is, both the ideals of the Kou bros and Hakuei were greatly influenced by Hakutoku and YuuRen. The only difference is them not challenging Arba, but as we know, Sinbad too allied with her despite what Althamen did to him, and the only one who could've defeated her was Aladdin after a big power-up.

I think Ohtaka originally intended to reveal stuff about the princes that we didn't know, but like Sinbad's third spy, that plot got scrapped in the end.

Spoiler: Magi spoilers

Well right and wrong are subjective but as a seasonal history puff the kou empire methods aren't bad ,fate iskander a.k.a King of Conquerors is considered admirable with fates fans and certainly I, like from historical point of view it's a rule the winner continue going tell they lose, then maybe a truce tell the country next to you gets weaker. if you have a considerable military power, resource, and the others don't even compare the choice between subjection vs invasion come quite naturally, if it wasn't so no country would need a military for defence. point is the kou empire who have overwhelming military power, resources of land and people, and warzones are nothing new to their lifehood since that's where they spend their adolescence. their line of thinking seams only natural. I like YuuRen and I know it's not fair to compare them with arasa-y/o EnMei but EnMei are much better spec wise like a lot of countries had KVs and didn't manage to do what they did, the best two-men army. Then there is hakuei whose beliefs "yes but etiquette" that's a sentiment, if naive, is the most ideal of all, and it's not naive if you succeed, then you're "correct". but that's speaking right and wrong tbh I wouldn't mind either story-wise if she rebelled whither wanting to protect her brother or anger at her mother

Sinbad politic views are fair too since he sees the life or merchant as the way, he lost his "life" there once even it's not less of a battlefield. The only thing that's bothersome was his hypocrisy/delusion making the chapter where he went to the sacred palace with arba so rewarding. and maybe I'm biased as arba fan but also don't see error with them allying with her/ keep your enemies closer - reference kouen lecture to alibaba on the ship, personal grudge take a back-seat when you're a good ruler

In the end magi ended up being people forcing their own values on others, as shounen manga puts it we'll settle it with our fists while talking and whomever punches harder is the right (but then even that gotten twisted with AliRyuu shounen fight, how do you score that? what's wrong with ohtaka xD)

Uhm to stay on topic, I do wish the unity under heaven here gets more Asian drama like this time around and not too political. whether the goal is the ruling or the sacred treasures, which sincescans wrote some intriguing stuff about in their release. wonder if we'll see them during the story or only as a goal.

 

[Haya-san]

Here are the sales for the first volume:

#29 (22,870 copies)

Source

If this was a manga by a new author, I won’t consider it bad, but this is by an author whose previous work sold way more than this. To compare, the final volume of Magi sold about 111,000 copies in the first three days, and Magi in its best days sold over 250k. Also, the first volume of Orient was announced with the first chapter, which says that Kodansha were betting on Ohtaka’s popularity and talent and have high expectations for this manga.

I won’t say Orient is already doomed. There are mangas that experience an increase in sales after a few volumes when the story gets more interesting.

Amazon.jp reviews

There are two 5/5 reviews. The others stated that they picked this manga up because it was by Ohtaka and they liked Magi and Sumomomo, but for some reason, they couldn’t get into it. Some say they don’t feel the same urge to read the next volume that they did when they read the first volume of Magi, and some even questioned if it’s really written by Ohtaka. Not all the negative reviews are, well, so negative, and that this is only the begining and there’s a chance it’s going to get better.

 

[airmattress]

Here are the sales for the first volume:

#29 (22,870 copies)

Source

If this was a manga by a new author, I won’t consider it bad, but this is by an author whose previous work sold way more than this. To compare, the final volume of Magi sold about 111,000 copies in the first three days, and Magi in its best days sold over 250k. Also, the first volume of Orient was announced with the first chapter, which says that Kodansha were betting on Ohtaka’s popularity and talent and have high expectations for this manga.

I won’t say Orient is already doomed. There are mangas that experience an increase in sales after a few volumes when the story gets more interesting.

Amazon.jp reviews

There are two 5/5 reviews. The others stated that they picked this manga up because it was by Ohtaka and they liked Magi and Sumomomo, but for some reason, they couldn’t get into it. Some say they don’t feel the same urge to read the next volume that they did when they read the first volume of Magi, and some even questioned if it’s really written by Ohtaka. Not all the negative reviews are, well, so negative, and that this is only the begining and there’s a chance it’s going to get better.

Ouch. That's bad. By chance do you know how long the volume was out when the sales were counted? Usually for new volumes they're out for 2 or 3 days on the first week but maybe this was the sales for 1 day? It's not likely but it's good to know regardless.

But man... idk how lenient these new publishers are gonna be but I think things need to improve or the manga could be in trouble. I checked back on Magi's 1st and 2nd volume sales back in december 2009 (they were released together) and they did not make top 30 at the time (though the threshold was 26k for the 1st week and 44k for the 2nd, so they could've sold 20k and just weren't featured). That was back when she was barely known, but not even a year ago and with the subpar final arc it was still selling several 100 thousands so honestly I was expecting at least 50k for Orient's 1st week.

At the same I do get why it's happening and I do agree with the comments. As much as I hate saying it, it feels like Ohtaka took the worst points of Magi's final arcs and built Orient based on everything that fans said they didn't care for or like (like big monster fights that drag on with little to no reason to actually care about the fights), and that just killed any momentum she had left.

Ah well, hopefully she bounces back eventually.

Edit: A better way to see how the manga is doing is to compare it to other volume 1 sales from the magazine. I know the fairy tale mangaka recently started a new series, that might be a good 1 to compare.

 

[Ice]

This makes me feel cery distressed
I really like Orient! I think it is briliant.

 

[Haya-san]

Ouch. That's bad. By chance do you know how long the volume was out when the sales were counted? Usually for new volumes they're out for 2 or 3 days on the first week but maybe this was the sales for 1 day? It's not likely but it's good to know regardless.

These are the sales for the first three days. Another thing to compare it to is the sales for last two volumes of the Sinbad spin-off that sold about 33,000 each in the first four days. 22k aren’t considerd bad sales for the first volume of a new manga, but I too expected it to be at least on the top 20, since it’s by Ohtaka. I know the first few chapters of this manga weren’t amazing, but I wonder if the way Ohtaka ended Magi turned people off or made them too wary to invest in her next work. Maybe it’s different for other people, but of the Japanese Magi artists that I’m following on twitter, only two read it.

Well, like I said before, it’s all going to depend on how the current arc turns out, but I wish if Kodansha would stop it with the exaggerated publicity. From the comments on manga pocket, people seem to like the current arc more than the previous one, which is a good sign.

 

[Laminariales]

Might be pessimistic but I expected it not to show up at all xD like nothing happened that warrant a reread and all chapters are available digitally. Actually the sales aren't bad and places like CDjapan that ships overseas don't factor in. but I would like to compare it with something like Eden Zero though since they started about the same time and follow big names.

But man... idk how lenient these new publishers are gonna be but I think things need to improve or the manga could be in trouble. I checked back on Magi's 1st and 2nd volume sales back in december 2009 (they were released together) and they did not make top 30 at the time (though the threshold was 26k for the 1st week and 44k for the 2nd, so they could've sold 20k and just weren't featured). That was back when she was barely known, but not even a year ago and with the subpar final arc it was still selling several 100 thousands so honestly I was expecting at least 50k for Orient's 1st week.

I would like to add that magi had an anime adaptation, anime no matter how horribly adapted increase sales tremendously like a long commercial, pandorahearts and tokyo ghoul are good examples, magi anime at least was good. I do think though the narration here needs some help. rugby helmet editor was featured in magi omakes 1 & 3 and and quote "your manga is boring", I want the new editors to be like you're "overdoing it"

I won't worry too much about cancellations though these are good sales, actually better than deserved objectively, certainly riding on magi. and I have said before it irk me when magi name pops up every so often in the review remind me when VnS started and the 2-3 stars reviews were all pandorahearts in ENG to stand out even more, if I could have a word redacted from someone else's text xD well after two years this problem disappear, and I respect those who mention sumomo lol

 

[Eastgrove]

Well, I didn't like the start, but I'm warming up to the last few chapters. As has been noted, that is not unusual, so the manga is probably safe. I hope Ohtaka isn't distressed.