Discussion Over-hyped magic

[Brandish μ]

Discussion of over-hyped magic (not by Mashima). By over-hyped I mean magic that projected by fans to be greater then what is presented in the manga AND/OR what you feel the level of magic is.

This can refer to a magic type or spells. Please refrain from PoF discussion.

 

[Coné]

I know you did this because of the Gray vs Gajeel thread

As far as I've seen, in this forum IDSM and Nakagami Armor are very overhyped here. Possibly Brandish's Mass Manipulation and Natsu's BDKM are over hyped too, but these last two probably deserve all the hype.

 

[Brandish μ]

I'll put down 5. No order.

1) Macro (Mira-Seilah)
2) Brandish shrinking/changing of mass
3) Devil Slaying Magic
4) Gajeel ISD shadow body
5) Bluenote gravity

 

[Coné]

I'll put down 5. No order.

1) Macro (Mira-Seilah)
2) Brandish shrinking/changing of mass
3) Devil Slaying Magic
4) Gajeel ISD shadow body
5) Bluenote gravity

I don't know why Macro is still over hyped if the way it works is so simple. The strongest character it's affected was Tartaros Erza, so any character above that won't be affected. Pretty much the same for Mass Manipulation, but I've seen folks in UBD saying she can shrink Kaidou.

I agree on DeS, but I don't see your point on Gajeel's ISD. It pretty much works like Rogue's magic except he has his own DC and he has his own Dragon Slaying Magic. And how's Bluenote overhyped...?

 

[DemonKing888]

God Slayer magic, sorry but other then Zancrow Godslayers just seem like gutter trash. compared to Dragon/Devil slayers.

 

[Brandish μ]

I know you did this because of the Gray vs Gajeel thread

As far as I've seen, in this forum IDSM and Nakagami Armor are very overhyped here. Possibly Brandish's Mass Manipulation and Natsu's BDKM are over hyped too, but these last two probably deserve all the hype.

Yes I thought to make a thread because of some of the differences in opinions in vs thread. Could call this thread 'what do you disagree with others about'.

Nakagami gets overhyped because you can break the laws of magic with it (from the manga) which can be interpreted as 'can do anything'. It can stop magic in a given space is what I feel, but it's offensive blow should not be the highest I give that to katana+red pants (Starlight is one of Erza's strongest attacks in terms of power used but how high is it for damage dealt? MP would be used to nullify magic, then rest for the slash, so slash power would be reduced I assume). It's good for hax destroying. I see it like Haki works on Logia's in One Piece.

Yes for ISDM and Mass Manipulation. I haven't got the feeling that BDKM is over-hyped yet what is the over-hype suggesting?

 

[Coné]

Yes I thought to make a thread because of some of the differences in opinions in vs thread. Could call this thread 'what do you disagree with others about'.

Nakagami gets overhyped because you can break the laws of magic with it (from the manga) which can be interpreted as 'can do anything'. It can stop magic in a given space is what I feel, but it's offensive blow should not be the highest I give that to katana+red pants (Starlight is one of Erza's strongest attacks in terms of power used but how high is it for damage dealt? MP would be used to nullify magic, then rest for the slash, so slash power would be reduced I assume). It's good for hax destroying. I see it like Haki works on Logia's in One Piece.

Yes for ISDM and Mass Manipulation. I haven't got the feeling that BDKM is over-hyped yet what is the over-hype suggesting?

Nakagami pretty much falls under NLF. I wouldn't use Nakagami Armor as an argument on a thread against someone stronger than Ajeel.

Then BDKM is hyped on other forums. I've seen a guy trying to scale BDKM Natsu to Mach 20000 and Large Island+ DC because he blitzed Zeref.

 

[Brandish μ]

I don't know why Macro is still over hyped if the way it works is so simple. The strongest character it's affected was Tartaros Erza, so any character above that won't be affected. Pretty much the same for Mass Manipulation, but I've seen folks in UBD saying she can shrink Kaidou.

I agree on DeS, but I don't see your point on Gajeel's ISD. It pretty much works like Rogue's magic except he has his own DC and he has his own Dragon Slaying Magic. And how's Bluenote overhyped...?

With Mira now having Seilah it gets some hype. I am not trashing this power, just believe it can be over-estimated because it should really only work on similar level opponents (that you gave evidence for).

Dual modes don't last long, but in a fight v ISD Gajeel it's sometimes thought that Gajeel can dodge moves all fight with it. I give LFD/ISD not much time to be used in a fight, Natsu/Gajeel only have used it for short times. Therefore Gajeel won't be able to use intangibility heaps. Sometimes Bluenote Gravity is given too much hype but this is me being picky about it I could probs take that one back.

 

[Brandish μ]

God Slayer magic, sorry but other then Zancrow Godslayers just seem like gutter trash. compared to Dragon/Devil slayers.

Is that more about the magic or the wizards themselves? Chelia is alright.

 

[Coné]

With Mira now having Seilah it gets some hype. I am not trashing this power, just believe it can be over-estimated because it should really only work on similar level opponents (that you gave evidence for).

Dual modes don't last long, but in a fight v ISD Gajeel it's sometimes thought that Gajeel can dodge moves all fight with it. I give LFD/ISD not much time to be used in a fight, Natsu/Gajeel only have used it for short times. Therefore Gajeel won't be able to use intangibility heaps. Sometimes Bluenote Gravity is given too much hype but this is me being picky about it I could probs take that one back.

Oh yeah. Scaling Sayla to Mira is just stupid. That's not really over-estimating the magic, it's not knowing how to scale characters.

Yeah, sure it can be overestimated like that, but that's not really overhyping the magic itself. Just abusing its use

Bluenote's gravity is alright since I rarely see match-ups with Bluenote.

 

[Brandish μ]

Nakagami pretty much falls under NLF. I wouldn't use Nakagami Armor as an argument on a thread against someone stronger than Ajeel.

Then BDKM is hyped on other forums. I've seen a guy trying to scale BDKM Natsu to Mach 20000 and Large Island+ DC because he blitzed Zeref.

What is NLF? I would use Nakagami if someone had a hax like Ajeel/Minerva where a magic defense was used. But it would be a waste of MP without hax I find as the nullifying of magic would not be needed.

Haha Natsu was fast but a calc would be ridiculous. Best hype I give Natsu with BDKM is that with his best move he can 2-shot Zeref. I don't give BDKM Igneel/Acno level power.

 

[Vasgoko]

That's wrong IDSM wasn't overhyped until Gray got it.

The entire time Silver was present and had it in Tartaros Arc, I saw no complaints of that sort.

Saying Silver is proficient with IDSM is illogical and invalid cuz we don't know exactly how many years he has had IDSM.



I don't really see any overhyped magics except for Jellal's Sema.

I believe that Jellal's Sema is overrated and overhyped

I'm going to use the same arguments used against Gray's IDSM.


1) Jellal's Sema was only used against OS. PRE TIMESKIP Oracion Seis.

The Oracion Seis hadn't been out of their cells since the Nirvana incident (with the exception of Cobra just for the dragon eclipse arc). That means the members of OS had no training and no exercise to move their legs. In theory, they should be just as strong as they were in Nirvana.

Now, EZEL (arguably one of the weakest 9 gates) is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS

So Sema had to be pretty weak if it had that much trouble against OS. If Sema wanted to stand a chance against Tartaros demons, it had to at least kill all OS members.


2) Jellal was about to use Sema at GMG against Jura.

Now, how big is GMG stadium? Sure as hell not as large and powerful as when he fought OS.

Was Jellal planning to kill everyone at the stadium? Cuz he sure would have done it if it weren't for Ultear.

The only explanation is that Sema was overhyped and exaggerated and th explosion should be not that much bigger than GMG stadium. Which is pretty damn small.

 

[Brandish μ]

Oh yeah. Scaling Sayla to Mira is just stupid. That's not really over-estimating the magic, it's not knowing how to scale characters.

Yeah, sure it can be overestimated like that, but that's not really overhyping the magic itself. Just abusing its use

Bluenote's gravity is alright since I rarely see match-ups with Bluenote.

I say knowing not to scale as the same as over-estimating in the context of over-hyping. End result is over-stating the magics capabilities.

It is abusing it for sure. It is not overhyping the magic capabilities but is overhyping the mode's capabilities (duration).

 

[Mirage]

I honestly don't think I've seen any other magic but DeS being over-hyped. Every forum I'm on, there are always those Gray fans who think Gray can just casually freeze people and win.

Then again, 90% of the magics in FT fall under NLF, so eh.

 

[Brandish μ]

That's wrong IDSM wasn't overhyped until Gray got it.

The entire time Silver was present and had it in Tartaros Arc, I saw no complaints of that sort.

Saying Silver is proficient with IDSM is illogical and invalid cuz we don't know exactly how many years he has had IDSM.



I don't really see any overhyped magics except for Jellal's Sema.

I believe that Jellal's Sema is overrated and overhyped

I'm going to use the same arguments used against Gray's IDSM.


1) Jellal's Sema was only used against OS. PRE TIMESKIP Oracion Seis.

The Oracion Seis hadn't been out of their cells since the Nirvana incident (with the exception of Cobra just for the dragon eclipse arc). That means the members of OS had no training and no exercise to move their legs. In theory, they should be just as strong as they were in Nirvana.

Now, EZEL (arguably one of the weakest 9 gates) is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS

So Sema had to be pretty weak if it had that much trouble against OS. If Sema wanted to stand a chance against Tartaros demons, it had to at least kill all OS members.


2) Jellal was about to use Sema at GMG against Jura.

Now, how big is GMG stadium? Sure as hell not as large and powerful as when he fought OS.

Was Jellal planning to kill everyone at the stadium? Cuz he sure would have done it if it weren't for Ultear.

The only explanation is that Sema was overhyped and exaggerated and th explosion should be not that much bigger than GMG stadium. Which is pretty damn small.

IDSM gets more love than DS magic to me. I agree it got more hype when Gray got it.

As for Sema it can be over-hyped sometimes. High AoE moves get a lot more hype than others, and it's a huge attack. But as you say it's best feat is to put down OS, their physical strength is not awesome. I do think it could put down people stronger, but probably not someone like Jura with a oneshot (would need to be a finisher).

When I saw Sema for the first time I thought the same why was Jellal going to use it in the GMG arena? Explosion looked much bigger than the stadium...

 

[Coné]

What is NLF? I would use Nakagami if someone had a hax like Ajeel/Minerva where a magic defense was used. But it would be a waste of MP without hax I find as the nullifying of magic would not be needed.

Haha Natsu was fast but a calc would be ridiculous. Best hype I give Natsu with BDKM is that with his best move he can 2-shot Zeref. I don't give BDKM Igneel/Acno level power.

No limits fallacy - it just means that as long as Nagakami Armor doesn't get an explanation about its mechanism, its hax will only be used on people who are below or equal to the strongest person it was used on.

It was scaling with the dragon kings It wasn't even scaleable because Zeref wasn't serious at all and Zeref isn't scaleable to the dragon kings either

That's wrong IDSM wasn't overhyped until Gray got it.

The entire time Silver was present and had it in Tartaros Arc, I saw no complaints of that sort.

Saying Silver is proficient with IDSM is illogical and invalid cuz we don't know exactly how many years he has had IDSM.



I don't really see any overhyped magics except for Jellal's Sema.

I believe that Jellal's Sema is overrated and overhyped

I'm going to use the same arguments used against Gray's IDSM.


1) Jellal's Sema was only used against OS. PRE TIMESKIP Oracion Seis.

The Oracion Seis hadn't been out of their cells since the Nirvana incident (with the exception of Cobra just for the dragon eclipse arc). That means the members of OS had no training and no exercise to move their legs. In theory, they should be just as strong as they were in Nirvana.

Now, EZEL (arguably one of the weakest 9 gates) is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OS

So Sema had to be pretty weak if it had that much trouble against OS. If Sema wanted to stand a chance against Tartaros demons, it had to at least kill all OS members.


2) Jellal was about to use Sema at GMG against Jura.

Now, how big is GMG stadium? Sure as hell not as large and powerful as when he fought OS.

Was Jellal planning to kill everyone at the stadium? Cuz he sure would have done it if it weren't for Ultear.

The only explanation is that Sema was overhyped and exaggerated and th explosion should be not that much bigger than GMG stadium. Which is pretty damn small.

Silver showed that he was more proficient on it than Gray by casually freezing Sun Village while Gray barely freezed a tornado

1) Sema has kinetic energy that backs up its insane DC. OS wasn't taken down because Jellal wanted to recruit them.

2) Jura's facial expressions indicate that it's at least as strong as Roaring Thunder, which is arguably Laxus' strongest attack

I honestly don't think I've seen any other magic but DeS being over-hyped. Every forum I'm on, there are always those Gray fans who think Gray can just casually freeze people and win.

Then again, 90% of the magics in FT fall under NLF, so eh.

 

[DemonKing888]

Is that more about the magic or the wizards themselves? Chelia is alright.

A little bit of both, I say that because while Chelia is alright she's still equal to Wendy a Dragon slayer.

God Slayers haven't shown any type of potential that should give them the name God Slayer, they haven't even shown off a God-Force like how Gray can already turn his skin black to increase his power.

Plus we have Natsu who nuked a war god already with 1 hit.

The Dragonslayers have shown themselves to be Superior growth-wise to them

Our only hope is for Invel to be a Ice Godslayer to truly see what kind of potential these mages have. Other wise they've been pretty much a joke at this point compared to other slayer types.

 

[Coné]

A little bit of both, I say that because while Chelia is alright she's still equal to Wendy a Dragon slayer.

God Slayers haven't shown any type of potential that should give them the name God Slayer, they haven't even shown off a God-Force like how Gray can already turn his skin black to increase his power.

Plus we have Natsu who nuked a war god already with 1 hit.

The Dragonslayers have shown themselves to be Superior growth-wise to them

Our only hope is for Invel to be a Ice Godslayer to truly see what kind of potential these mages have. Other wise they've been pretty much a joke at this point compared to other slayer types.

I think you're just being a bit pessimistic about them. Chelia is basically the same as Wendy and Zancrow is basically the same as Natsu except Zeref killed him. I think we'll still have a chance to see how strong Orga is right now, and if you judge by his magic alone (at the GMG), it wouldn't be that disappointing (his attack against Jura had enough energy to bust a small town). The problem is his physical strength though.
Besides, the DS are the main characters of the series and Gray is one of the most important characters too, so it's logical that they'll have more space to develop their strength.

 

[Brandish μ]

No limits fallacy - it just means that as long as Nagakami Armor doesn't get an explanation about its mechanism, its hax will only be used on people who are below or equal to the strongest person it was used on.

It was scaling with the dragon kings It wasn't even scaleable because Zeref wasn't serious at all and Zeref isn't scaleable to the dragon kings either


Silver showed that he was more proficient on it than Gray by casually freezing Sun Village while Gray barely freezed a tornado

1) Sema has kinetic energy that backs up its insane DC. OS wasn't taken down because Jellal wanted to recruit them.

2) Jura's facial expressions indicate that it's at least as strong as Roaring Thunder, which is arguably Laxus' strongest attack

Thanks for NLF. Sounds about right what I was trying to say.

To me Sema is stronger than Roaring thunder by a fair bit, and I base this on AoE. Sema has OS member (minimum level) DC multiplied by a huge AoE. Roaring thunder is a finisher for Laxus (can take out Jura but definitely not a one shot, Jura had taken a lot of dmg and used a lot of power) with small AoE. The DC for the attacks on wizards seems about the same but AoE is much in Sema's favour (proxy for power can be DC x AoE - loose estimate).

Laxus best attack is Fairy Law. I find in Jellal v Laxus discussions Sema is seen as the trump card but FL is forgotten (like the manga has).

 

[Mirage]

Our only hope is for Invel to be a Ice Godslayer to truly see what kind of potential these mages have. Other wise they've been pretty much a joke at this point compared to other slayer types.

I honestly don't see God Slayers ever being on the level of Dragon and Devil Slayers.

What their name implies is somewhat shaky in the first place. I doubt God Slayers slay Gods.

Ankhseram vs Chelia, Orga and Zancrow confirmed?