Special Move PoT and SPoT Technique Tier List

[FujiNumberOne]

Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

This is most likely correct.

Closed Eyes counter:
-Saiki
-Illusion
-maybe KnS, not sure about that one
-maybe Gen'U Yume Utsutsu, not sure here either

In counters:
-Saiki

I'd say CE definitely counters GUYU, since GUYU is completely predicated on creating an illusion of the ball.

I agree that TZ and World of Ice should be in SS. And I also agree the Magic Volley definitely needs to be a lot higher. While the pole shot isn't super difficult to return, Tight Rope Walking is. How can you return a shot that never DOESN'T touch the net without touching the net with your racket? It is technically possible, but ridiculously difficult.

And I don't see why Zero-Shiki Serve and Tannhäuser Serve aren't both at the same position, since they are technically the same thing, just different directions.

Also, Houo Gaeshi should also probably be higher than it is. While I think Hakuryu is a better technique, it's situational while Houo Gaeshi isn't. That's the only reason that I don't think both should be moved higher.

 

[FrostyMouse]

Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

I'd say CE definitely counters GUYU, since GUYU is completely predicated on creating an illusion of the ball.

I agree that TZ and World of Ice should be in SS. And I also agree the Magic Volley definitely needs to be a lot higher. While the pole shot isn't super difficult to return, Tight Rope Walking is. How can you return a shot that never DOESN'T touch the net without touching the net with your racket? It is technically possible, but ridiculously difficult.

I'd put TZone and WoI (KnS, if you prefer) above In, and as the best two moves, respectively, in the S tier.

Considering that Closed Eyes can at the very least counter Saiki, shouldn't it be in the SS tier? I personally think that Closed Eyes should move above Niou's Illusion, but that's as far as I'd put it. Even though Closed Eyes can counter Saiki, Saiki's more versatile than Closed Eyes, so Saiki's still a better move.

And I don't see why Zero-Shiki Serve and Tannhäuser Serve aren't both at the same position, since they are technically the same thing, just different directions.

Also, Houo Gaeshi should also probably be higher than it is. While I think Hakuryu is a better technique, it's situational while Houo Gaeshi isn't. That's the only reason that I don't think both should be moved higher.

Zero-Shiki Serve can't be returned except by plothax as it never bounces; the second it lands it just rolls backwards to a halt without ever leaving the gorund. Tannhauser Serve can be returned as long as you understand how to return it; when Ryoma uses the Tannhauser Serve against Atobe, Atobe returns it. Tannhauser Serve works along the same principle as Cool Drive and Tsubame/Hohou Gaeshi. It lands and then hovers imperceptibly above the ground all the way until the backstop.

Zero-Shiki Serve is a significantly better move than Tannhauser Serve.

I honestly think that a lot of the Rank S moves need to be reordered, but it's all too subjective. For example, I think that Neo-Scud Serve and Waterfall are way too highly ranked. I also believe that Shiraishi's Bible and the evolved Triple Counters should be above Laser Beam and Cool Drive.

 

[Kaoz]

Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

I'd say CE definitely counters GUYU, since GUYU is completely predicated on creating an illusion of the ball.

Well, I brought CE up as a counter when the chapter was first discussed, but quite a few people disagreed with me iirc, so I only listed it as possible counter. Personally, I think it does counter GUYU.

I agree that TZ and World of Ice should be in SS. And I also agree the Magic Volley definitely needs to be a lot higher. While the pole shot isn't super difficult to return, Tight Rope Walking is. How can you return a shot that never DOESN'T touch the net without touching the net with your racket? It is technically possible, but ridiculously difficult.

I believe you're talking about Myougi here and not Magic Volley.

And I don't see why Zero-Shiki Serve and Tannhäuser Serve aren't both at the same position, since they are technically the same thing, just different directions.

Zero-Shiki Serve can't be returned except by plothax as it never bounces; the second it lands it just rolls backwards to a halt without ever leaving the gorund. Tannhauser Serve can be returned as long as you understand how to return it; when Ryoma uses the Tannhauser Serve against Atobe, Atobe returns it. Tannhauser Serve works along the same principle as Cool Drive and Tsubame/Hohou Gaeshi. It lands and then hovers imperceptibly above the ground all the way until the backstop.

Zero-Shiki Serve is a significantly better move than Tannhauser Serve.

^This

Up to this point, only Sanada returned ZSS, but Atobe and Hiyoshi both returned THS, and Tachibana has shown that he could probably do it by returning Tsubame Gaeshi after it bounced.

Considering that Closed Eyes can at the very least counter Saiki, shouldn't it be in the SS tier? I personally think that Closed Eyes should move above Niou's Illusion, but that's as far as I'd put it. Even though Closed Eyes can counter Saiki, Saiki's more versatile than Closed Eyes, so Saiki's still a better move.

The problem I have with CE in SS, is that it counters 3-4 moves and is pretty much useless outside of that. I don't think that's worthy of SS tier tbh.

I honestly think that a lot of the Rank S moves need to be reordered, but it's all too subjective. For example, I think that Neo-Scud Serve and Waterfall are way too highly ranked. I also believe that Shiraishi's Bible and the evolved Triple Counters should be above Laser Beam and Cool Drive.

I'll try to throw something together later today when you guys don't mind.

 

[FrostyMouse]

Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

The problem I have with CE in SS, is that it counters 3-4 moves and is pretty much useless outside of that. I don't think that's worthy of SS tier tbh.

It doesn't just counter 3-4 moves. Remember the Fuji vs Kirihara match? For a time, until Kirihara started dragging his racket along the ground to distract Fuji, Kirihara couldn't get a single point off of Fuji because he couldn't predict where Fuji would be. CE also has regular uses in matches; I don't understand why he didn't use CE against Shiraishi.

I'll try to throw something together later today when you guys don't mind.

All right.

 

[FujiNumberOne]

Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

Hmm, are we sure that THS bounces? I thought it didn't bounce at all, and the only way that Atobe returned it is by hitting it at the instant the serve hit the ground. I might be wrong though. I was a little fuzzy on the explanation they gave.

 

[Kaoz]

Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

Hmm, are we sure that THS bounces? I thought it didn't bounce at all, and the only way that Atobe returned it is by hitting it at the instant the serve hit the ground. I might be wrong though. I was a little fuzzy on the explanation they gave.

chaosmaster1991 (20:42:48): http://read.mangashare.com/Prince-of-Tennis/chapter-236/page006.html
considering that both Echizen and Atobe can hit these kind of shots constantly, was Sanada wrong with this explantion?
Sai the Shaman (20:43:47): no
Sai the Shaman (20:43:56): it just shows the amount of skill ryoma and atobe have
chaosmaster1991 (20:45:26): I see... but the ball does bounce, yes? it's not like Zero Shiki Drop/Serve where there's no bounce at all?
Sai the Shaman (20:46:59): supposedly, there is no real bounce, but unlike zeroshiki it shoots forward at incredible pace so it's still not impossible to return
Sai the Shaman (20:47:06): you can use your racket to scoop it
Sai the Shaman (20:47:13): which is what I assume yukimura did
chaosmaster1991 (20:47:47): and that's the same Atobe's Front Foot Hop does I take it?
Sai the Shaman (20:48:18): for the most part. the point of the front foot hop was to provide extra puch and lift
chaosmaster1991 (20:51:08): so Yukimura is the only one that can return these kind of shots from the baseline and everyone else has to use a variation of a rising shot?
Sai the Shaman (20:51:26): possibly
chaosmaster1991 (20:51:42): great, do you mind me copypasting this?
Sai the Shaman (20:51:48): if you want
Sai the Shaman (20:51:49): lol
chaosmaster1991 (20:51:51): thanks
Sai the Shaman (20:52:03): yukimura uses a variation of a rising too
chaosmaster1991 (20:52:22): well yes, but everyone else hit the ball right after it bounced
Sai the Shaman (20:52:31): yeah
Sai the Shaman (20:53:25): the theory here is that yuki let it roll which negates the over spin factor (see vs. Tanishi) and he has the racket control to let the ball roll onto his racket and then push from there back over
chaosmaster1991 (20:53:44): ic

This applies to all of COOL Drive, Tannhauser Serve, Shitsu e no Fugue, Tsubame Gaeshi and Houou Gaeshi, though the former three seem to have more power than Fuji's counters, making it much harder to hit them before they touch the ground (see what happened to Tanishi as reference).

---

Spoiler

SSS

TnK - Echizen, Tezuka

SS

Black Jack Knife - Oni
Rai - Sanada
Tezuka Phantom - Tezuka
Yips - Yukimura
Zero Shiki Serve - Tezuka

S

Angel Mode - Kirihara
Atobe Kingdom - Atobe
FuuRinKaZan - Sanada
Hecatoncheires no Monban - Fuji
Hoshi Hanabi - Fuji
Hyakuren Jitoku no Kiwami - Tezuka, Echizen
Koori no Sekai - Atobe
Saiki Kanpatsu no Kiwami - Chitose, Tezuka, Echizen
Samurai Drive - Echizen
Simple Minded - Kabaji
Super Ultra Great Delicious Daisharin Yama Arashi - Tooyama
Tezuka Zone - Tezuka
Zero Shiki Drop Shot - Tezuka, Echizen

A

108 Style Hadokyuu - Ishida G.
Abare Dama - Tachibana
Bible - Shiraishi
Closed Eyes - Fuji
COOL Drive - Echizen
Data Tennis - Yanagi
Devil Mode - Kirihara
Evolved Triple Counter - Fuji
Final Hadokyuu - Kawamura
Flower Serve - Matsudaira Chikahiko
Gen'U Yume Utsutsu - Yamato
Illusion - Niou
Kamikakushi - Chitose
Lateral Shukuchihou - Kite
Moujuu no Aura - Kamio, Ishida T., Tachibana, Chitose
Muga no Kyouchi - Echizen, Kirihara, Sanada, Kabaji (?), Chitose, Niou (?), Yukimura
Shitsu e no Fugue - Atobe
Southern Cross - Krauser
Synchro - Oishi, Kikumaru, Washio, Suzuki
Tannhauser Serve - Atobe, Echizen

B

Big Bang - Tanishi, Kite
Bloodshot Mode - Kirihara
Dash Hadokyuu - Kawamura
Data Tennis - Inui, Konjiki
Entaku Shot - Shiraishi
Gyro Laser - Kaidoh
O-Habu - Hirakoba
Hametsu e no Rondo - Atobe
Haritsuki Gomen - Krauser
In - Sanada
Kagero Zutsumi - Fuji
Myougi - Marui
Neo Scud Serve - Ootori
Nezumi HanaBEAT - Jackal
No Step Hadokyuu - Ishida T.
Laser Beam - Niou, Yagyuu, Kaidoh
Sealed Step - Kikumaru
Tornado Snake - Kaidoh
Triple Counter - Fuji
Waterfall - Inui

C to ?

everything else

That's what I would suggest for starters. Note that the techniques are not ordered within the tiers, I think it'd be better to agree on tiers first and discuss specific positions afterwards.

 

[FrostyMouse]

Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

A few things about your list of techniques.

Echizen uses Saiki for one point, so that counts as him being able to use it.

http://somemanga.com/alt/Prince_of_Tennis/373/om/16/
http://somemanga.com/alt/Prince_of_Tennis/374/om/1/

He uses the Zero-Shiki Drop Shot on his own as well.

http://somemanga.com/alt/Prince_of_Tennis/154/om/12/
http://somemanga.com/alt/Prince_of_Tennis/154/om/13/

Kabaji and Niou don't actually use Muga, they just use Hyakuren, and Hyakuren and Saiki, respectively. You can say that Kabaji actually learns how to use Hyakuren, whereas it's only Niou's Illusion that grants him the ability to use Hyakuren and Saiki. I think it's doubtful that Niou could use Hyakuren or Saiki without using an Illusion of a player who can use them.

Chitose can use Moujuu no Aura, as he does when he plays doubles with Tachibana against Washio/Suzuki.

Apart from a few mentions on who actually performs the technique, I only have one or two comments. I don't think that Echizen should be credited as being able to use the technique if it's only when he's using Muga. For example, Echizen uses Tannhauser Serve while using Muga, but he can't naturally.

Aside from that, I think that Gen'U Yume Utsutsu and Closed Eyes should be in the S Tier.

 

[Kaoz]

Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

A few things about your list of techniques.

Echizen uses Saiki for one point, so that counts as him being able to use it.

http://somemanga.com/alt/Prince_of_Tennis/373/om/16/
http://somemanga.com/alt/Prince_of_Tennis/374/om/1/

He uses the Zero-Shiki Drop Shot on his own as well.

http://somemanga.com/alt/Prince_of_Tennis/154/om/12/
http://somemanga.com/alt/Prince_of_Tennis/154/om/13/

Added.

Kabaji and Niou don't actually use Muga, they just use Hyakuren, and Hyakuren and Saiki, respectively. You can say that Kabaji actually learns how to use Hyakuren, whereas it's only Niou's Illusion that grants him the ability to use Hyakuren and Saiki. I think it's doubtful that Niou could use Hyakuren or Saiki without using an Illusion of a player who can use them.

http://translations.shamannet.com/?p=296

Is this Muga no Kyouchi, or is it…?

Niou’s “Illusion” and Kabaji’s “Copy” can reproduce Muga. However, whether this is really the attainment of “Muga no Kyouchi” is heavily argued.

I'll put (?) behind their names for now.

Chitose can use Moujuu no Aura, as he does when he plays doubles with Tachibana against Washio/Suzuki.

I didn't add Chitose for Moujuu because I'm not sure whether he can use the actual aura and not just the synchro form. I don't mind adding him though.

Apart from a few mentions on who actually performs the technique, I only have one or two comments. I don't think that Echizen should be credited as being able to use the technique if it's only when he's using Muga. For example, Echizen uses Tannhauser Serve while using Muga, but he can't naturally.

Anyone disagrees with this?

Aside from that, I think that Gen'U Yume Utsutsu and Closed Eyes should be in the S Tier.

Not sure, as GUYU only works against high level players that can anticipate the next shot, no comment on CE for now.

 

[FrostyMouse]

Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

http://translations.shamannet.com/?p=296

I'll put (?) behind their names for now.

I'd forgotten that I'd seen that before...I'd seen that page once when I was looking through something.

Well, technically, as PoHW, PoGW, and TnK are doors "inside Muga," they are Muga, and this panel supports that.

So, I suppose it's fair to say that the whole list can use Muga. Although, I'd be more apt to put a (?) by Niou and Kabaji's names though.

So, I'd put it this way, I guess.

Muga no Kyouichi: Echizen, Tezuka, Yukimura, Sanada, Kirihara, Chitose, Nanjirou, Kabaji (?), Niou (?)

Also, Nanjirou can use TnK.

I didn't add Chitose for Moujuu because I'm not sure whether he can use the actual aura and not just the synchro form. I don't mind adding him though.

Well, Kamio and Ishida Tetsu just use the synchro form, so, and you credited them. :P

Anyone disagrees with this?

Interestingly though, Echizen is able to just copy Matsudaira Chikao's Magnum Serve, who appears to be Matsudaira Chikahiko's younger brother or something, without the use of any Muga or previous experience.

http://somemanga.com/manga/New_Prince_of_Tennis/2/14/
http://somemanga.com/manga/New_Prince_of_Tennis/2/19/
http://somemanga.com/manga/New_Prince_of_Tennis/2/20/
http://somemanga.com/manga/New_Prince_of_Tennis/2/21/

Magnum Serve isn't even on the B Tier list, but I would say that Magnum Serve counts as one of Echizen's moves.

Not sure, as GUYU only works against high level players that can anticipate the next shot, no comment on CE for now.

You have a point there.

 

[Kaoz]

Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

Well, Kamio and Ishida Tetsu just use the synchro form, so, and you credited them. :P

>_> You have a point there. Should there be a seperate entry for Moujuu Synchro then?

Interestingly though, Echizen is able to just copy Matsudaira Chikao's Magnum Serve, who appears to be Matsudaira Chikahiko's younger brother or something, without the use of any Muga or previous experience.

Magnum Serve isn't even on the B Tier list, but I would say that Magnum Serve counts as one of Echizen's moves.

Echizen copied other lower level techniques without Muga before, so that's not really a suprise.

 

[FrostyMouse]

Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

>_> You have a point there. Should there be a seperate entry for Moujuu Synchro then?

If you want.

Echizen copied other lower level techniques without Muga before, so that's not really a suprise.

True. He copies the St. Rudolph's player's Sky Inversion Drop Shot, as well as some others.

 

[Fuji Shusuke]

Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

OMG so many comments!!!! I'll take my time reading through and examining the comments and I'll state any changes I'm about to make.

 

[Fuji Shusuke]

Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

This thread has been untouched for quite some time. I have revised Ranks SSS, SS and S. I don't really know all the recent techs so can you give me the Technique, Users and a suggested rank. Right now I'm stuck with Reflection Eyes, Danji of Summer, and is the Yukimura dream thing a separate tech?

Please help me complete this list.

 

[LetalHawk]

Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

I'm not too sure to put Reflection, since that technique doesn't exist in S.POT, Summer of Danji would be an A or even S technique, and Yuki's world/dream SS ^^

Also, Izou's Vanish could be in the A tier with Taira's Bakyuun. Do you think Kawamura's final hadoukyuu technique should be A? I think it could perfectly be on the S Tier

 

[Fuji Shusuke]

Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

I'm not too sure to put Reflection, since that technique doesn't exist in S.POT, Summer of Danji would be an A or even S technique, and Yuki's world/dream SS ^^

Also, Izou's Vanish could be in the A tier with Taira's Bakyuun. Do you think Kawamura's final hadoukyuu technique should be A? I think it could perfectly be on the S Tier

Thanks, I'll try to fit these in.

 

[Kaoz]

Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

This thread has been untouched for quite some time. I have revised Ranks SSS, SS and S. I don't really know all the recent techs so can you give me the Technique, Users and a suggested rank. Right now I'm stuck with Reflection Eyes, Danji of Summer, and is the Yukimura dream thing a separate tech?

Please help me complete this list.

For all we know, the dream part is an extension of Yips, so it's not really a new technique.

Furthermore, some people (myself included) doubt that Fuwa actually has Mirror Eyes. We think that he was already caught in the extended Yips when that part was shown.

 

[Fuji Shusuke]

Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

Since Yips is already a Rank SS tech, I don't think I'll need to put a separate entry for dreaming. I'll put Vanish in S but it could be an A. Bakyuun would go in A. I'll add Shitsui e no Fugue to S. Danji of Summer will go in S but maybe even SS. Added Moujuu no Aura and Moujuu no Synchro so Rank S. Also, should FuuRinKaZan be made into one, or stay separate? In my opinion, they all have different power levels. Even though they are one technique some seem more returnable than others. Any thoughts and anything I miss?

 

[Surprise]

Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

It should probably be seperate techniques, the problem is that we have no idea what to do with zan.

 

[MochiRoll]

Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

Separate techniques. But it's true though that we have yet to see what Zan is.

Momo can use BJK now so I guess it's alright to put his name besides Oni there.

 

[Kaoz]

Re: PoT and NPot Moves Tier List

I think FuuRinKaZan should be combined in one entry, as the reason why it's good in the first place is it's ability to counter various playstyles.