Discussion Ranking the Sins

[Demonspeed]

But his heat/magic is suppressed

I don't see how it's suppressed, his Magic is still there as is PL keeps rising, without his Magic he would not be able to fight. The heat is stored in the axe, allowing him to not burn his surrounding and he can use it later, Rhitta is like a battery.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

10K is still a huge difference though. I don't think Estarossa would be able to keep up with that. And we have seen Meliodas easily toy with Derrierie despite her 48K(a difference of 6K between her and Estarossa). Against Dolor and Gloxinia, Meliodas must have somehow reached the 50 or 60K with his mark when he had a PL of 32500 without it, and now this mark is even more powerful. I can't imagine a scenario with Estarossa keeping up with him even for an instant.

The problem is we don't know how much his new mark adds. There's nothing to base it off of. Drole was nearly oneshotted by Rhitta so he was a bit impaired, and to top it off he wasn't healed for a very very long time during that fight. Plus there's still the issue of Merlin who took down Grayroad and we're not even sure if she got a power up. Power levels are pretty pointless right about now.

 

[Demonspeed]

Unless estarossa can power up with his darkness ( i hope he can)

Technically he should, but that's why I am saying "Considering everything we know so far". Only Meliodas and Derrierie did it for some reason and even Derrierie didn't use it in her fight against Meliodas.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 6, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 6, 2016 ---

The problem is we don't know how much his new mark adds. There's nothing to base it off of. Drole was nearly oneshotted by Rhitta so he was a bit impaired, and to top it off he wasn't healed for a very very long time during that fight. Plus there's still the issue of Merlin who took down Grayroad and we're not even sure if she got a power up. Power levels are pretty pointless right about now.

We don't know indeed, but it should be a power up even bigger than the previous ones. Gloxinia was healed and in armor, he destroyed it with a sword slash or something. Dolor got healed after that and was still no match for him(when he was injured Meliodas had not used his PoD). Even if Estarossa can match Meliodas when he is at 60K, I am certain that he would be crushed if he uses his mark. My comparison of the brothers was strictly in terms of PL as I said.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

Technically he should, but that's why I am saying "Considering everything we know so far". Only Meliodas and Derrierie did it for some reason and even Derrierie didn't use it in her fight against Meliodas.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 6, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 6, 2016 ---

We don't know indeed, but it should be a power up even bigger than the previous ones. Gloxinia was healed and in armor, he destroyed it with a sword slash or something. Dolor got healed after that and was still no match for him(when he was injured Meliodas had not used his PoD). Even if Estarossa can match Meliodas when he is at 60K, I am certain that he would be crushed if he uses his mark. My comparison of the brothers was strictly in terms of PL as I said.

Drole still isn't viable because of his injuries. He can be 20K ahead of Meliodas but he was still pretty much nuked on prior to that. Meliodas could just very well have been 40K during that fight and still could've destroyed them because Gloxinia has very little strength going for him and Drole is just too much of a target to do anything. Even a newly revived Dreyfus was able to make a giant dent in Fraudrin who is very far ahead of Dreyfus in terms of power levels (granted he wasn't using full size, but even without it he's still an elite demon). Meliodas would certainly crush Estarossa, I have no doubt about that, but as for stat distribution Meliodas doesn't have to completely outclass Estarossa in the strength department to win.

 

[Demonspeed]

Drole still isn't viable because of his injuries. He can be 20K ahead of Meliodas but he was still pretty much nuked on prior to that. Meliodas could just very well have been 40K during that fight and still could've destroyed them because Gloxinia has very little strength going for him and Drole is just too much of a target to do anything. Even a newly revived Dreyfus was able to make a giant dent in Fraudrin who is very far ahead of Dreyfus in terms of power levels (granted he wasn't using full size, but even without it he's still an elite demon). Meliodas would certainly crush Estarossa, I have no doubt about that, but as for stat distribution Meliodas doesn't have to completely outclass Estarossa in the strength department to win.

Shouldn't Glox and Dolor be in perfect condition thanks to the Drop of Life though? Gloxinia lacks strength but Mel still destroyed his armor in one hit and Dolor is a veteran warrior, who is acrobatic and a Giant, his height should not be a handicap.

We will have more feats from Meliodas soon anyway so if you are fine with it we can agree to disagree for now. We are both speculating after all.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

Shouldn't Glox and Dolor be in perfect condition thanks to the Drop of Life though? Gloxinia lacks strength but Mel still destroyed his armor in one hit and Dolor is a veteran warrior, who is acrobatic and a Giant, his height should not be a handicap.

We will have more feats from Meliodas soon anyway so if you are fine with it we can agree to disagree for now. We are both speculating after all.

Yeah there is quite a bit of speculation on this and it would be best to just see how the plot goes.

 

[kkck]

Escanor is not trying to suppress his power though, what he tries to suppress(at times) is the heat he emits. His PL doesn't increase as you said. So far, it only surged during the night against Gowther and at 11:00/11:30 AM against Estarossa. Against Galan it was clearly rising with 5 points per seconds.

Rhitta doesn't hold him back, as I said just above, what he tries to suppress is the heat he emits in order to not burn everything around him, and the heat intensifies at times depending on his emotions. Like in the Special at the beach when he saw Merlin and in his fight against Estarossa. That's what he meant, he was too excited to contain that heat and he said Rhitta would not be enough to contain everything either. Against Gowther, his emotions are what transformed him as well but since it was night his PL was not rising.

Escanor can't not emit heat, it's inevitable, but Rhitta stores that heat so that he can release it after as attack, he can also use his Magic on it(probably the weapon allowing him do that) and it's a mighty weapon fitting for a man of his build. Sacred Treasures have been made to support the Sins in battle and suit them, they are in no way holding them back. Escanor without Rhitta would have less time to help his companions because Rhitta would not be here to store the heat.

As far as we know escanor's heat is directly related to his PL though. That is why the heat around him increases as the day goes by. As for rhitta working as a restrain for escanor's power, that would be so far the only reasonable explanation to what he said regarding rhitta suppressing the hell that was unleashed due to escanor exerting himself. If it didn't do that then it would be pointless for escanor to have suggested that even rhitta couldn't have controlled escanor's power at that point. I mean, otherwise the same would have been true if he said jello couldn't suppress his power. And it would have been exactly as relevant.

And the beach case you mention is an excellent example of what I am talking about. He got excited and the result was that his power increased and thus water evaporated (though it would seem he managed to suppress his power that time). And that chapter would also be pretty strong evidence that escanor does not have a 11:30 am boost in power. Primarily because he didn't have that boost in that occasion, otherwise the lake they were at would have evaporated entirely. Hence my point: Under normal circumstances escanor tries to keep his power at the lowest plausible level. And he tries to keep his power's growth at the slowest possible rate. Against estarosa he didn't have a time related boost, he merely stopped willingly suppressing his own power as much as he could and it surged to a level we hadn't seen before. Considering that even rhita can only suppress his power to a point (evidenced by its inability to do it after escanor's fight with estarosa) the most likely scenario is that rhita works merely as a supplement to escanor's conscious suppression of his own power.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 6, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 6, 2016 ---

Shouldn't Glox and Dolor be in perfect condition thanks to the Drop of Life though? Gloxinia lacks strength but Mel still destroyed his armor in one hit and Dolor is a veteran warrior, who is acrobatic and a Giant, his height should not be a handicap.

We will have more feats from Meliodas soon anyway so if you are fine with it we can agree to disagree for now. We are both speculating after all.

Well, if we got at least by demon's healing then regeneration works pretty well but demons still need time to recover, specially if they accumulate a lot of damage. It wouldn't be weird if the same logic applied to other types of healing as well, however efficient they may be. And in that fight dolor and gloxinia were healed repeatedly from what seemed like serious wounds, many of which would have seen to even take out a couple of demon hearts at a time. Even if that does not apply, I would argue that it's very likely that gloxinia's healing powers require more than a fair bit of magic. He made the point that after healing merascyla he would need some time until he could use the technique again. Unless the limitation was the fairy tree itself though IMO that is less likely considering his inherent control of the tree as a fairy and his disaster.

 

[TarXan]

But his heat/magic is suppressed

Which translation because it says heat, not magic power but the aura around him that makes everything melt/Burn that doesn't have any affects on his strength or magic level

Rhitta's job is to store that heat not weaken Escanor that makes no sense, the SCs were created to draw out the Sins full potential in battle and compliment their abilities NOT handicap them in a fight

This argument just feels like a bs attempt to make Escanor seem like he beat Estarossa/Zeldris in a weakened state to justify him being #1 strongest force in Taizai right now

 

[Escanorzoldyck]

I didnt say rhitta weakens him nor did i try to justify anything
All rhitta does is store the wasted energy/heat

 

[MrSchmitty7]

Which translation because it says heat, not magic power but the aura around him that makes everything melt/Burn that doesn't have any affects on his strength or magic level

Rhitta's job is to store that heat not weaken Escanor that makes no sense, the SCs were created to draw out the Sins full potential in battle and compliment their abilities NOT handicap them in a fight

This argument just feels like a bs attempt to make Escanor seem like he beat Estarossa/Zeldris in a weakened state to justify him being #1 strongest force in Taizai right now

His heat is his magic power though. Heat isn't a physical separate element its the rapid motion of particles. Escanor emits sunlight radiation, the heat is just a property of it. Saying that heat is separate from the radiation is physically impossible nor would it ever make sense. That's like saying I can put a campfire underwater and it'd still burn. And it doesn't matter what Rhitta does. You can call it storing, surprising, or holding; it still has to take away from Escanor to store his magic. It's like a bank. The bank may store money from your wallet, but that doesn't mean the money is in your wallet. In other words, Rhitta takes magic away from Escanor so that he's not profusely pumping out magic. The Sacred Treasures were created to allow the Sins to draw out their full power, nowhere did it say that they couldn't be handicaps. Rhitta does its job, it allows Escanor to draw out his full magic. It is not designed to aid him in battle however, it aids him depending on the way he uses it.

 

[TarXan]

I didnt say rhitta weakens him nor did i try to justify anything
All rhitta does is store the wasted energy/heat

Chill babe, I was speaking in general

You know I love you <3

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 11, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 7, 2016 ---

Soooooooooooo Godliodas #1 after that recent chapter amarite ?

1. Meliodas Ex Machina
2. Escanor
3. Gowther
4. King
5. Merlin
6. Diane
7. Ban

I put King over Merlin because his awakened form is haxed, once he gets his wings he'll be way stronger, plus Nakaba stated he got weaker being away from the Fairy Forest for so many years

Mel being the current strongest is self explanatory, his base form's equivalent to Estarossa PL with his Demon Mark Active, then he has 2 more stages of power with boost his stats beyond our comprehension

 

[Kay3795]

"Infinity" is by far the most haxxxed & overpowered -- "unfair" & "cheating" -- ability introduced thus far in NNT & one of the most overpowered abilities in fiction.
This alone puts Merlin at least on number 3 of the most dominant SINs.

King's ability to command life & death is frightening & hugely versatile. I'd give the nod to him as 2nd in terms of ability for now.

Meliodas' ability to counter Vanish magic is great; seemingly a great Counter to Merlin's style. His unparalleled skills in combat & the Demonic abilities displayed thus far makes him formidable enough for the number 3 spot in terms of ability.

Gowther is a huge unexplored wildcard atm with a crippling mind ability that could make even a much tougher foe crumble, so he gets 4th or 5th in ability.

Ban used to be on my highest list but now I'm not so sure he should be now. There are big, detrimental, limitations to his ability & it's mostly relevant vs combatants with much STR.... Still, his immorality is impressive indeed & so is Snatch. When both are combined with zero sign, he becomes nigh-unstoppable; so he gets number 5 or 4 in ability. Can't wait to see him power up, & with his ST.

Diane gets 6th or 7th as her abilities are underwhelming compared to the others for now. I like the concept of being one with nature & being able to predict danger though, so I'm looking forward to when she shines again.

Escanor is probably last as far as ability is concerned. He's mostly a mass of energy. I'd like to see when he properly controls his abilities in order to do more with it: healing, complete dominance over external sources & dispensing his energy to others in order to protect; His "curse" would finally be a blessing to his people.

 

[kkck]

I think that overestimates a bit merlin's ability. Surely it is a very useful ability but I wouldn't rate it above that of other sins even if it does seem hax. Simply because the ability merely keeps magic going. It does not however give her insanely powerful attacks or anything of the sort. Her magic does not make spells stronger, it merely keeps them going. Now, this is insanely useful but in combat it does not warrant the reaction this got in the manga.

Full counter is also relatively weak, at least as it has been shown so far. It works well in very specific but very limited circumstances. For the most part full counter is a deterrent to keep the enemy from just shooting magic at meliodas. It's unfortunate that most people seem familiar with the magic to begin with. I am sure the likes of merlin could attack with spells that can't be full countered. Full counter is basically useless against the likes of king and gloxinia unless they use their one or two skills, out of perhaps a dozen different ones, that are vulnerable to it. It also does squat against creation.

I am not sure if diane will get the eye thing. That seems to be a dolor specific thing rather than a giant thing.

At least as far as usefulness, I would say king's magic takes the cake. He controls life and death. And combines that with the fairy's inherent ability to control the fairy tree. With that alone king can do basically anything. Merlin can potentially do anything if she knows enough spells but I would think that she is still behind king in this department considering she has to learn spells whereas for king his powers are completely inherent to him.

As for ban, I am not sure yet. I think it depends on how exactly he grows from now. If he is able to increase his power and his use of his magic increases proportionally to that then he should easily be able to solo the 10 commandments combined. Give him fraudrin's stats and proportionally the same ability to steal strength he had before and he would be able to take enough strength from all 10 commandments to beat them easily.. If the amount he can steal is set -presumably close to what he stole before- then the situation is quite different. The 12k he could steal wouldn't necessarily guarantee him a victory against anything.

And I would definitely give the first spot to escanor simply because his magic has an inherent inability to fuck around. His magic is basically an embodiment of more power than mere mortal minds can fathom. Escanor' magic is power itself, the sun itself. And it manifests itself in pure strength, speed, resilience, stamina, and magic. The magic other specks of dusts around the sun can cast obviously does not even begin to compare to the sun. Unless the sun in nanatsu is something different from the real life sun.

 

[Demonspeed]

Full Counter is far from useless even when you know its power. Against some types of Magic it is but without it Meliodas can deal with everyone with his sword skills at close range. King and Gloxinia can't carelessly use certain forms against it(Meliodas reflected Status Promotion once, and forms like Sunflower for King and Basquias for Gloxinia need to be used with). And there is Counter Vanish.

Merlin's ability is that useful because, her Magic Power herself is high and her spells versatile. As Escanorzoldyck said before, she can just use an ice spell and the opponent will be frozen forever. It's here to support her other spells. The best thing about Sunshine is that it increases his PL(especially his physical abilities) and allows him to use sun attacks, but it does nothing else(so far). It works like a regular power up. Among the other elemental abilities, I find Thunderbolt, Great Thunder and Tempest more versatile.

Disaster is extremely powerful and useful, but in terms of versatility, King has yet to prove that he is superior to Merlin. Chastiefol has 10 forms.

I would rank them like this, strictly talking about usefulness:

1. Infinity.
2. Invasion or Disaster. Hard to decide.
4. Snatch.
5. Full Counter.
6. Creation(higher outside of battle, maybe 2nd).
7. Sunshine.

Raw power

1. Infinity:Because of the absurd amount of Magic Power you need to stop time itself in the first place.
2. Sunshine: Sun attacks. If we only consider his physical abilities he's N.1.
3. Disaster: Only the Fairy Kings displayed this magic so far and it can be used in many ways.
4. Creation.
5. Invasion: While it is extremely dangerous and powerful. When I think about raw power I can't put it higher than this.
6. Snatch: Useful but the body needs to be able to support it and there is a time limit. Hunter Fest is nonetheless incredibly dangerous.
7. Full Counter: Depends on the fighting skills of the user and might be useless against Magics which can't be reflected.

 

[Rescorlian]

Until we got some more informations, I have to think Infinity is the most absurd and OP ability ever.
Gowther, when he'll get his original powers back, will have the second rank I think. His abilities were already OP'd before, and with the bonus of raw power and the commandements, he's gonna be awesome

LOL Escabor fanboys should realize Mel has multiple stages in power, his base form is equal to Estarossa who was already match to pre 11:30 Escanor

His demon mark boosts his stats tremendously, before being possessed he was able to take on Gloxinia and Dolor while holding back

Also his final form where he loses control his PL went from 3k to 4K to 10k when he fought Galand, that's a huge increase

In his base form he already has the ability to match Escanor from early morning to 11:30, then applying his new Mark he surpasses his base power level and it's not even close, not to mention when the darkness takes over he reaches the pinnacle of his strength and magic

You guys serious think Escanor's stronger than that lmaoooo

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 6, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 6, 2016 ---

I could understand Pre Purgatory Mel but Post purgatory Godliodas is currently the strongest, a 60k base power stat puts him on the same level as his brothers when they're using their demon Mark

Like 60k right off the bat in base is too much power, not to mention he jumped from 4400 to 10300 before his power up so imagine if he lost control jumping from 60k to lord knows what

The most funny thing is that this guy made the point that PL meant nothing and never determined the issue of a fight, and now the guy is just abusin' them, how cute

 

[TarXan]

The most funny thing is that this guy made the point that PL meant nothing and never determined the issue of a fight, and now the guy is just abusin' them, how cute

You can't be serious......

Lmfao read the thread title, " Ranking the sins " and I did just that

Coming to a thread discussing overall strength and ranking characters based on their current capabilities with that logic

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 17, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 17, 2016 ---

PL's literally don't mean anything, at least to me because Merlin and Gowther already established that they increase and decrease during battle, so they're not necessarily accurate

Gloxinia has a 50k stat and he can easily get beat down by Gilthunder

Depending on the match ups, PL's can be useless

Like Mel toyed with Derieri with a 7k power gap -___- while resetting her combos which make her 10x stronger with 1 hand and shit

 

[Isaiah Thomas]

You can't be serious......

Lmfao read the thread title, " Ranking the sins " and I did just that

Coming to a thread discussing overall strength and ranking characters based on their current capabilities with that logic

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 17, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 17, 2016 ---

PL's literally don't mean anything, at least to me because Merlin and Gowther already established that they increase and decrease during battle, so they're not necessarily accurate

Gloxinia has a 50k stat and he can easily get beat down by Gilthunder

Depending on the match ups, PL's can be useless

Like Mel toyed with Derieri with a 7k power gap -___- while resetting her combos which make her 10x stronger with 1 hand and shit

Meliodas was 60000 in base when he toyed with Derieri & we don't know the physical strength difference at the time.

Power Level matter but the overall number don't the subcategories matter more they are what really matter. For example Ban is physically stronger then Melascula that why he was able to kill her, Arthur had a higher power level then Hendrickson but it's mainly magic & since Arthur don't know how to use magic he lost.

 

[kkck]

Come on, power levels not being the sole factor that determines victory does not mean they are irrelevant. Saying power levels are irrelevant is equally stupid as suggesting power levels are everything. Power levels are merely a reference of someones overall combat capacity. No more, no less.

 

[TarXan]

Meliodas was 60000 in base when he toyed with Derieri & we don't know the physical strength difference at the time.

Power Level matter but the overall number don't the subcategories matter more they are what really matter. For example Ban is physically stronger then Melascula that why he was able to kill her, Arthur had a higher power level then Hendrickson but it's mainly magic & since Arthur don't know how to use magic he lost.

This is what I've emphasized so many times

The overall stat doesn't mean anything, depending on the match up

I literally brought up Gil being able to beat Gloxinia for a reason, he has a 50k PL but is physically useless against any opponent

Even Dreyfus' PL isn't an accurate number, it increases based on his will power

The Derieri point is kind of redundant because Combo Star increases her strength with every blow but Mel easily deflected every single combo with literally 0 effort

Idk if you guys think I'm stating that they're irrelevant because they're not depending on the match up

I only bring that up when posters act surprised when high PL characters get taken out by lower PL characters

But I guess that's my fault, should've said " total PL " instead of PL's in general

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 17, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 17, 2016 ---

Come on, power levels not being the sole factor that determines victory does not mean they are irrelevant. Saying power levels are irrelevant is equally stupid as suggesting power levels are everything. Power levels are merely a reference of someones overall combat capacity. No more, no less.

Hence why I said " depending on the match up " like I've done several times this discussion is brought up

 

[Rescorlian]

You can't be serious......
Gloxinia has a 50k stat and he can easily get beat down by Gilthunder

Not sure if serious or trolling