I think he is at full power because Fraudrin said his power was the same as back then. I assume the missing piece of the mark is what allows him to keep a piece of his personality.
I know that, and it does not change what I said. Escanor's PL was far higher than any of the Sins when Meliodas was not at his prime. Meliodas is at his prime now and she said Escanor was still unrivaled because of his victories. Escanor's PL being higher doesn't mean that it's far higher than Prime Mel. And having a higher PL doesn't guarantee victory.
Not only did Merlin amplify Gowthers power (by an unquantifiable amount) but she explicitely made Escanor lower his guard.
Lowering his guard doesn't matter, his Spirit level won't change. While she called him, Gowther attacked by surprise, obviously because Escanor could have dodged or deflected it easily had he been aware of his presence. These two did that many times before. Merlin's Magic stat was 3540, she can't amplify it to insane levels wat such a level while Gowther(Magic: 1300)'s Blackout Arrow works on people with a Spirit equal or below 400. Even when he fought Gowther at Vaizel with his PL of 28800, Gowther's Blackout Arrow worked on him. It's safe to say that Escanor's Spirit stat is his lowest.
Merlin is most certainly NOT capable of casting infinitely powerful magic, that would entail being capable of universe busting power (the word infinite is not to be taken lightly).
There is a misunderstanding. I am not saying that she her spells are infinitely powerful, I am saying that her spells are powerful and some of her spells don't need to have lot of power to be deadly. As she is now I don't see why she would be unable to injure him with some spells.
There's really no guarentee that Meliodas will gain more power if he dies again. The only thing we know for certain is that his emotions will go away. For all we know, he could have his full power back, but probably lacks the emotional loss to use it to its full potential. After all a person trying to kill you is a lot stronger than a person holding back against you.
I know that, and it does not change what I said. Escanor's PL was far higher than any of the Sins when Meliodas was not at his prime. Meliodas is at his prime now and she said Escanor was still unrivaled because of his victories. Escanor's PL being higher doesn't mean that it's far higher than Prime Mel. And having a higher PL doesn't guarantee victory.
Huh? I don't get you. You are admitting yourself that Merlin still states that Escanor is unrivaled in power, so how does that not mean that Escanor is not far higher then Mel? There is at least a tier of difference (since they are not rivals in power), which I normally associate with a maximum of a Mid-Diff win. Sometimes yeah, but in this case I think Merlin is talking specifically about general power/strength, not just PL since she is basing it on the feat of easily defeating the two commandment top-tiers, not the actual PL he achieved (no one was there who can calculate it).
Against Mel the easiest way to win is through physical strength, and that happens to be what Escanor excels at the most.
Lowering his guard doesn't matter, his Spirit level won't change. While she called him, Gowther attacked by surprise, obviously because Escanor could have dodged or deflected it easily had he been aware of his presence. These two did that many times before. Merlin's Magic stat was 3540, she can't amplify it to insane levels wat such a level while Gowther(Magic: 1300)'s Blackout Arrow works on people with a Spirit equal or below 400. Even when he fought Gowther at Vaizel with his PL of 28800, Gowther's Blackout Arrow worked on him. It's safe to say that Escanor's Spirit stat is his lowest.
Your state of emotion should go hand-in-hand against someone like Gowther. Escanor let his guard down with Merlin because he dropped his hardened battle ready state of emotion to soft and gentle. Goes without saying that it would be a lot harder to mind rape someone who has the mental state of a seasoned warrior then someone who expresses such an exploitable trait like love. Didn't Escanor use up all of his temporary power in his last attack though, to my knowledge that power was limited by the amount that he summoned with his fake sun.
There is a misunderstanding. I am not saying that she her spells are infinitely powerful, I am saying that her spells are powerful and some of her spells don't need to have lot of power to be deadly. As she is now I don't see why she would be unable to injure him with some spells.
I know that, and it does not change what I said. Escanor's PL was far higher than any of the Sins when Meliodas was not at his prime. Meliodas is at his prime now and she said Escanor was still unrivaled because of his victories. Escanor's PL being higher doesn't mean that it's far higher than Prime Mel. And having a higher PL doesn't guarantee victory.
Lowering his guard doesn't matter, his Spirit level won't change. While she called him, Gowther attacked by surprise, obviously because Escanor could have dodged or deflected it easily had he been aware of his presence. These two did that many times before. Merlin's Magic stat was 3540, she can't amplify it to insane levels wat such a level while Gowther(Magic: 1300)'s Blackout Arrow works on people with a Spirit equal or below 400. Even when he fought Gowther at Vaizel with his PL of 28800, Gowther's Blackout Arrow worked on him. It's safe to say that Escanor's Spirit stat is his lowest.
It's not really that much of a stretch that merlin could increase gowther's blackout arrow affectiveness four or five times though. Spirit seems to be a stat that works differently from magic and strength and the numbers are much lower than the others. Even with the commandments you deal with numbers between 2000 and 4000. Also worth noting, blackout arrow could be more effective than just blackout. Blackout worked on everyone in the kingdom, blackout arrow being a more concentrated attack could easily have effect on beings with pl greater than 400. Odds are that escanor has spirit comparable to the commandments and it grows to as well as the rest of his power. Considering we most likely have not seen even a fraction of his true power yet, I wouldn't put it past him to have the strongest spirit stat if he draws out enough of his power. Unless his moods actually lower it or something.
It would've made more sense if they called Merlin's magical power "eternity" instead of infinity. Eternity is related to time specifically while infinity can be related to any numerical value.
There's really no guarentee that Meliodas will gain more power if he dies again. The only thing we know for certain is that his emotions will go away. For all we know, he could have his full power back, but probably lacks the emotional loss to use it to its full potential. After all a person trying to kill you is a lot stronger than a person holding back against you.
Yeah but a large majority of their PL's come from strength, especially the characters that rely on physical strength, Mel's mark boosts his strenght stats more than Magic/Spirit
I think Escanor will have the highest TOTAL POWER LEVEL but Mel will most likely have higher Strength + Spirit in his full power
I just thought it might be interesting to bring this back now, since everyone has gotten a power-up (except Ban), we can guess more or less how strong they'll end up at their best, and we pretty much know where Meliodas stands in the grand scheme of things with his full strength.
Have your rankings changed for the sins with their power-ups, or any new information?
Well, if we go PL wise I don't expect my ranking to change substantially. Only ban would be dead last now because he is the only sin that has yet to evidence any growth.
Escanor remains at the top followed by meliodas. I don't expect that to change through the series. King, diane, merlin and gowther have had increases in power though I think their relative positions would remain the same. Except merlin who could be lower than before. Mostly because king and diane are still developing their powers. I am not sure about diane but I think king could end up 3rd or 4th PL wise in the long term followed by diane. Neither merlin or gowther really need insane PLs to be effective. Though I wouldn't be surprised if merlin clears 50k. I am not sure of what the deal with ban will be or what direction nakaba wants to take with him though.
That said, I am thinking that eventually the demon clan will bring in the indura's to the fight at which point at least several sins will have to clear 60k to remain relevant. Escanor and meliodas already easily clear this benchmark but perhaps king and diane will need to break through that threshold soon. Given that king is at 40k and he hasn't even finished growing his wings I am thinking that he will definitely grow at least to that point.
Gowther and Merlin are either 3rd or 4th. They should be at full power but Gowther especially lacks feats. I am confident that both have PLs at the very least above Derrierie and Monspiet.
King is 5th, 41K and still growing. He can't be above the four I mentioned already.
Diane is 6th, might be 5th depending on the techniques she has in reserve. Hard for me to imagine her dodge King's long attacks with her size though.
Ban is unsurprisingly 7th. I think he is stronger too but he needs feats.
Ability, skills and power is better than just having a strong PL; anyway.
Meliodas
Escanor
Gowther/Merlin (?)
Diane/King
Ban (?)
EOS I expect something like this:
Meliodas (Strongest Demon)
Escanor (Strongest Human)
Gowther/Merlin (?)
Diane (Strongest Giant King)
King (Strongest Fairy King)
Ban (?)
(nothing really changes, with Ban still being last)
Edit: I forgot about Gowther, a complete unknown. All I know is that he's substantially weaker than Senior Gowther (that'd probably change in the future).
Eh, I'd say everyone is around the 40 to 50 thousands range.
Escanor and Mel are obvious.
Merlin and Gowther are mysteries due to the nature of their power, but I can see both being between the high 40 and low 50 thousands.
I doubt King was using his full power to apprehend Gowther and I assume his actual level is around Gloxinia and Dolor's, but leaving room for growth for when the stronger threats arrive.
Diane's can probably get by at a smooth 50 with her dance.
Honestly, I could see gowther being in the 30s. What would he even do with 50k pl? His magic won't become more effective with more pl and he has never been a particularly physical fighter either. Of course, he could be higher than the 30s but it wouldn't particularly make a difference... Gowther is much like merascylla in that regard.
Merlin also doesn't have the same PL requirements as say, king or diane. Merlin has a variety of spells and infinity, she would be fairly deadly remaining in the 50s.
King and diane in turn do specifically have much higher PL requirements than merlin or gowther. Their performance depends entirely on their PL and they have no techniques whose effectiveness would remain regardless of PL. At the very least considering both of them are supposed to surpass dolor and gloxinia I would argue both of them will at the very least clear 54k eventually. And I daresay both of them will eventually go over 60.
Honestly, I could see gowther being in the 30s. What would he even do with 50k pl? His magic won't become more effective with more pl and he has never been a particularly physical fighter either. Of course, he could be higher than the 30s but it wouldn't particularly make a difference... Gowther is much like merascylla in that regard.
Merlin also doesn't have the same PL requirements as say, king or diane. Merlin has a variety of spells and infinity, she would be fairly deadly remaining in the 50s.
King and diane in turn do specifically have much higher PL requirements than merlin or gowther. Their performance depends entirely on their PL and they have no techniques whose effectiveness would remain regardless of PL. At the very least considering both of them are supposed to surpass dolor and gloxinia I would argue both of them will at the very least clear 54k eventually. And I daresay both of them will eventually go over 60.
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How would Gowther and Merlin not benefit from a higher PL? Obviously the power and effectiveness of their attacks would change, it's logical.
Merascylla is not that strong among the Commandments to begin with, her ability is very useful but she is undoubtedly the weakest Commandment(not counting Fraudrin because he is not an official member)
Gowther in the flashback could fire an Invasion attack bigger than anything shown before. Although Invasion can affect people regardless of their PL, there is obviously a limit. His Blackout knocked out people with Spirit power below 400 and he needed Merlin's amplification to knock out Escanor at Edinburgh. He tricked Galan but it was just that, a trick Galan was unaware of his presence. That's all he was able to do before. Merlin is the same, versatility would not compensate the lack of power and Infinity is not that good. Her spells can stay active forever but what's the point if it's not powerful enough? Its usefulness depends on the spell used too. Gowther at least uses physical abilities a little, but Merlin fights only with Magic, before the power ups her Magic power was above that of King's and she is an exceptional magician, Gloxinia has 47K in Magic alone, she and King's Magic power must be absurdly high as well.
Diane's abilities are rather straightforward but King is easily one of the most versatile Sins with Disaster + Chastiefol's forms.He is almost like a physical fighter with Guardian, can heal with Pollen Garden, Fossilization is a straight petrification technique and he has three other forms hidden. Merlin is the only one with more versatility than him.
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There were some interesting feats in the recent chapter, for Diane especially. The fact that we don't know the hour is a problem, but she was able to take Escanor's punch and retaliate without Heavy Metal. The current Escanor is definitely stronger than when he faced Galan and probably weaker than when he faced Estarossa ATM.
After powering up a little she momentarily knocked King out with one hit using Gideon(would have not been so easy if he were serious), without Helbram's intervention it could have been a fatal injury. It looks like he was unable to move after this too(could be because of the emotional shock though). I would like to see how fast his Pollen Garden can heal him now. That's the only advantage he has compared to Merlin when it comes to defensive capabilities. He has versatility and firepower but the physically strongest Sins(Meliodas, Diane and Escanor) can kill him with a few moves if they hit him while he is unguarded. The punch Diane took in this chapter would have killed him I think, he said Meliodas's punch would have killed him when he and Ban teased him too.
Gowther was fine after taking a hit, unsurprisingly. And the range of his Invasion is much better. To directly enter in the mind of people, he needed to be very close before(Nightmare Teller on Dreyfus/Fraudrin and Escanor) but now he can do this at long range.
Ban implied that he could "almost kill" Diane but with his feats it's hard to believe. His Snatch was rather ineffective against her.
Both Gowther and Escanor have yet to use their Sacred Treasures.
He tried pulling Gideon away so the spirits can't ram its thorn deeper into her head. And I think he actually succeeded (barely) at that moment. I think Diane would've gotten hurt, likely even worse, again otherwise after that Snatch.
And I'm not sure if Escanor is stronger than when he fought Galan tbh. Diane almost doubled his (Galan's) PL when she punched Escanor but he seemed to be completely unharmed while Galan actually managed to (minimally) injure Escanor. I also think her stats should be distributed more or less like Galan's I think (without looking his exact stats up).
It's really difficult to gauge Sunboy's strength tho because he looks the same 90% of the time...we only saw him change to an even more hulking figure when he was almost at Peak or massively pissed. Apart from those three(?) instances his appearance barely changed beyond him wearing different clothes/armor.
He tried pulling Gideon away so the spirits can't ram its thorn deeper into her head. And I think he actually succeeded (barely) at that moment. I think Diane would've gotten hurt, likely even worse, again otherwise after that Snatch.
And I'm not sure if Escanor is stronger than when he fought Galan tbh. Diane almost doubled his (Galan's) PL when she punched Escanor but he seemed to be completely unharmed while Galan actually managed to (minimally) injure Escanor. I also think her stats should be distributed more or less like Galan's I think (without looking his exact stats up).
It's really difficult to gauge Sunboy's strength tho because he looks the same 90% of the time...we only saw him change to an even more hulking figure when he was almost at Peak or massively pissed. Apart from those three(?) instances his appearance barely changed beyond him wearing different clothes/armor.
You are probably right about Ban, but Escanor can't be weaker than when he fought Galan. When he fought Galan the sun was just rising, he spent the night with the two Demons so he was at his weakest when transformed. When the Sins saved Pelio's village it was morning already and there is the time they took to go to Corand next. The fight against Galan was very short compared to all of this.
Assuming Escanor's durability increases every seconds, he being unharmed would make sense since he should be stronger. But even if it's not the case, there is the fact that Galan put a lot of strength in his attack and used his weapon, Diane punched him. Galan in Critical Over should also have more Strength than Diane even if her PL is superior.
1- The fully regressed Meliodas
2- The One (using his Entire store built over several years)
3- Assault mode of the STILL regressing Meliodas
4- The One (after burning the store of energy
From what the translation of mangastream implies Escanor isn't a battery. He just happens to naturally build up power when he doesn't release it. That's why they used the word "build" instead of built. I can't believe some Mel fans still by into that lol
Think of it like a lightbulb. If I let its light build up for years it's still going to have the same brightness from start to finish. If I take it out I just replace it instantly and it has the same effects.
Now if I took out a light bulb who's brightness I built up for years and replaced it, it would take time for that lightbulb to get as bright.
Basically build in this case alludes to a continuation, not a storage.
Plus Escanor's power vanishes at night, so he cannot store it in the first place.
Look I am not Mel fan. From design to who he is, and I am willing to except a human besting the successor of the Demon King. Escanor is known as the peak of all clans and he wouldn't have that name if he couldn't beat this one demon. But I still think if Mel used his full arsenal (revenge counter) he would of won. I loved the fight no matter what because it's the Seven Deadly MF Sins.
Look I am not Mel fan. From design to who he is, and I am willing to except a human besting the successor of the Demon King. Escanor is known as the peak of all clans and he wouldn't have that name if he couldn't beat this one demon. But I still think if Mel used his full arsenal (revenge counter) he would of won. I loved the fight no matter what because it's the Seven Deadly MF Sins.
All his Counter techniques require that he be attacked with magic. The one time Escanor did attack him with magic he used full counter appropriately.
Revenge Counter requires that he powers down to his weakest, and allows himself to be beat on, and he only uses it when backed into a corner and the battle looks hopeless, which obviously wasn't anywhere close to happening for the majority of the fight. He never would have survived a beating from late morning escanor while powering down to his weakest anyway, considering even though he was much weaker, a punch from escanor in late morning form was still able to make him bleed while he was in Assault form.
The only other thing he can do is punch people, and use hellbaze, both of which he did. That's what divine slayer is.
So what exactly didn't he use, that he still could have?
