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Shadowlord123

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Damn it’s been a while since I’ve seen you on here. There are a couple points I disagree with. I think an exhausted FH still low or mid diffs Luslec. I mean, Traumerei only acknowledged Urek and didn’t even care that Luslec was getting some kind of spell ready. Gustang didn’t look worried either. Meanwhile Luslec was looking pretty stressed. He’s a trash talker too, so him being that quiet definitely says something.
Heya, I'm on vacation now, so I'm having plenty of time to post stuff again :cheez

I don't think Luslec looked at all stressed, more like locked in. He had in front of him the very people he's wanted to kill for tens of thousands of years, now having nearly exhausted all their strength. It was an opportunity like no other, but he also had to be careful with how he handled the situation because Urek was there, and the FHs are still formidable even if weakened. Not really a situation to trash talk.

There are a couple of reasons as to why I think Luslec is not fodder for a FH:

1. Already talked about it. Gustang mocked Urek for saying a 2v1 was fine when he had brought such an "unwelcome guest" along with him. I think this clearly depicts Luslec as a somewhat relevant player with the capacity to mess things up, at least for an exhausted FH. I doubt the fight would be less than Mid Diff for the weakened FH with that alone. Low Diff feels like too little to warrant this level of acknowledgment. Gustang clearly shows some level of concern for Luslec being there. Doesn't mean he's worried, obviously, but the fact that he'd rather not have Luslec there says plenty about Luslec's strength.

2. SIU already gave Dumas and Tiara gimmicks that approached the base strength of a FH, and I think it's very safe to assume that whatever Luslec can do when going all-out is going to be >> Rosario or the Pen's fire. This already means that Luslec's abilities are not something a FH can treat lightly, regardless of their state.

With all due respect, I don’t think saying “the Boss retreated when Urek arrived” is a strong argument.

His strongest troops were only regent tier, so Urek could casually wipe out the Revolution’s “10 Family Heads” in one attack. What’s the point of the Captain sticking around to stall Urek if it means risking his entire organization getting annihilated?

Luslec, on the other hand, only had Jinsung, Khel, and Garnak behind him. I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t even rank in FUG’s top 5 strongest, so losing them wouldn’t put FUG as a whole at major risk.

Plus, Luslec already has some idea of Urek’s personality since he’s met him before. He knows Urek doesn’t just kill people that easily. The Boss doesn’t know that, so he’s probably thinking, “If he gets serious, he could wipe us all out right now.” He doesn’t know how rarely Urek gets serious or that he usually lets his enemies go, so he chose to leave instead of taking that risk.

Other than that, I agree with everything else. Great analysis as usual.
The Boss' decision to leave was certainly reasonable, but there's no denying he was portrayed as insta-kill fodder for Urek. Had they left a moment later, all of them would have died.

Of course, we have no clue what level of power Urek was using at the Sprout. One could reasonably argue he was using 100% Reinforcement or something close to it. In which case, Boss retreating isn't much of an anti-feat, since it's likely this version of Urek could wipe Luslec instantly in a straight fight as well.

While I could see Boss as TT-level, he's kinda a nothing burger right now. We know he should be above Regents, but he's also canon fodder to Urek. Luslec, meanwhile, fought Urek, stopped him several times, and even injured him. All while significantly holding back. Luslec just looks a lot more impressive on paper.

I have no problem with the Boss being TT-level, but he's gonna have to show it. As of right now, I don't feel the gravitas of an overwhelmingly powerful being on par with Luslec or Adori. The gap between their introductions and portrayal is considerable, IMO.

I would like to add 2 cents on this. Like we saw Edahn seem to be too exhausted after fighting Mago. We know he didn't use so many of his arsenals, but do they matter? Likely not since Edahn himself thought only his main spear could give him true security against Mago and others. He never once mentioned any of his arsenal besides the spear.

Likewise, Gussy having many arsenals doesn't matter. SIU won't bother showing an arc or family for each family leader. Take that library of his, too many books, but used 2-3 only. Likewise Traumerei didn't use elgore, cobalt. Having many arsenals does not matter if they are useless.

Unless he faces someone like shinari, hendo or TP, I don't see him doing any well against other FLs. Most likely he will be used as hype tool for other FLs or SOs.
Gustang having practically infinite versatility on paper does matter, as that makes it very unlikely he's ever gonna be hard-countered in an actual fight (if SIU bothers to write him using his powers properly) and could almost always find ways to hard-counter his opponents instead.

Of course, I do agree that having a lot of options doesn't necessarily mean he'd always have the upper hand in a fight, but I think there are at least a few abilities that would always make him stronger and more formidable to fight.

Take the pen, we know the kind of stuff Tiara could do with it (mimic abilities much stronger than her own, transform into entities with abilities far beyond her own output), and Gustang's is stated to be much stronger than hers. So just imagine the stuff he can do with it.

The purple transformation Dumas had would also give Gustang a big boost. He's almost guaranteed to have it, since the form gave off power similar to that of the FHs (and the power was called "overwhelmingly strict"; not a coincidence given Dumas is Gustang's strictness).

Other than that, we got nothing on the Library's causality manipulation, or perception change. Nothing with Mikel's twisting ability either. Honestly, Gustang practically didn't use his powers at all in that fight, lol. On paper, his arsenal is absurdly broken.
 

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Heya, I'm on vacation now, so I'm having plenty of time to post stuff again :cheez

I don't think Luslec looked at all stressed, more like locked in. He had in front of him the very people he's wanted to kill for tens of thousands of years, now having nearly exhausted all their strength. It was an opportunity like no other, but he also had to be careful with how he handled the situation because Urek was there, and the FHs are still formidable even if weakened. Not really a situation to trash talk.

There are a couple of reasons as to why I think Luslec is not fodder for a FH:

1. Already talked about it. Gustang mocked Urek for saying a 2v1 was fine when he had brought such an "unwelcome guest" along with him. I think this clearly depicts Luslec as a somewhat relevant player with the capacity to mess things up, at least for an exhausted FH. I doubt the fight would be less than Mid Diff for the weakened FH with that alone. Low Diff feels like too little to warrant this level of acknowledgment. Gustang clearly shows some level of concern for Luslec being there. Doesn't mean he's worried, obviously, but the fact that he'd rather not have Luslec there says plenty about Luslec's strength.

2. SIU already gave Dumas and Tiara gimmicks that approached the base strength of a FH, and I think it's very safe to assume that whatever Luslec can do when going all-out is going to be >> Rosario or the Pen's fire. This already means that Luslec's abilities are not something a FH can treat lightly, regardless of their state.
Dumas’s full power definitely does not approach the base strength of a FH. Remember, Baam put the adult Zahard who appeared on the Hidden Floor and Dumas at similar levels. We know that version of Zahard possessed only a fraction of the real Zahard’s power. We also know the FH’s are definitely above 50% of the real Zahard’s strength, while Dumas is comparable to a small fraction—so like 10% at best(this is raw power btw, not even including their abilties). Also, Baam can’t sense the true depth of a Family Head’s power to begin with, so his comparison between Dumas and the FHs was never reliable in the first place.

As for Tiara, the statement that “her flames are close to a Family Head’s” is crazy ngl. However, I believe it’s an inconsistency in SIU’s power scaling. For example, the version of Dumas that beat Jinsung and Yama in a couple of moves struggled against Ju and Tump—branch heads who are indirectly stated to be inferior to Pudidy. However Pudidy and Jinsung are comparable… so yeah, ridiculous errors in power scaling is not uncommon for SIU. So I feel like we can chalk tiara’s gimmick up to be just a massive outlier and an inconsistency on SIU’s part. Or Tiara was just massively overrating her abilities.


The Boss' decision to leave was certainly reasonable, but there's no denying he was portrayed as insta-kill fodder for Urek. Had they left a moment later, all of them would have died.

Of course, we have no clue what level of power Urek was using at the Sprout. One could reasonably argue he was using 100% Reinforcement or something close to it. In which case, Boss retreating isn't much of an anti-feat, since it's likely this version of Urek could wipe Luslec instantly in a straight fight as well.

While I could see Boss as TT-level, he's kinda a nothing burger right now. We know he should be above Regents, but he's also canon fodder to Urek. Luslec, meanwhile, fought Urek, stopped him several times, and even injured him. All while significantly holding back. Luslec just looks a lot more impressive on paper.

I have no problem with the Boss being TT-level, but he's gonna have to show it. As of right now, I don't feel the gravitas of an overwhelmingly powerful being on par with Luslec or Adori. The gap between their introductions and portrayal is considerable, IMO.
I mean, the Boss has gotten crazy portrayal.

There is the statement, “The Tower’s newest champion had arrived” or something to that effect.

Maschenny appeared to be more serious than we’ve ever seen her when she met the Boss, while he looked quite casual. That scene easily gives me the impression that the Boss is way above Maschenny.

The major organizations, excluding Zahard’s Empire and the Workshop, are led by top Towerborn:

Wolhaiksong: Baek Ryun
FUG: Luslec

So it only makes sense for the Boss to be up there too, imo.

Plus, he’s leading an organization with at least 10 regent-level threats. The strength of those troops far surpasses FUG’s. I feel like the Boss has to be at least as strong as Luslec for all these guys to submit to him.
 
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