Semifinal Reinhard van Astrea vs. Vegeta

[Demonspeed]

lol lambu still in denial lololol

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2021 ---

mondaiji has clear cut statements and description of their cosmology and thus we can know the effects of the power unlike rezero where people wank something up-to hundred.

Mondaijitachi is sometimes clear, sometimes very unclear. It has good world building but it is definitely not as clear as most LNs with heavy exposition like Mahouka or Horizon. It has been said in early volumes for example that Izayoi could shake stars with his fists, but it was obvious it wasn't the case. He being able to reach third cosmic velocity speed as early as volume 1 however is clear. Azi Dahaka has also plenty of good feats, but some of the descriptions were pure, unadulterated hype.

 

[Blakestnight666]

Mondaijitachi is sometimes clear, sometimes very fancy. It has good world building but it is definitely as clear as most LNs with heavy exposition LNs like Mahouka or Horizon. It has been said in early volumes for example that Izayoi could shake stars with his fists, but it was obvious it wasn't the case. He being able to reach third cosmic velocity speed as early as volume 1 however is clear. Azi Dahaka has also plenty of good feats, but some of the descriptions were pure, unadulterated hype.

Yes i agree but unlike re zero where there are blank statements which fans wank, in mondaijj there are multiple characters with feats of destroying stars or universes

 

[lakhan220]

Now tht brings me back to the question, if Reinhard's immortality is conditional like moro's is, why shld hakai not work on him again ?

@Sachsenhesse would hakai work on semi immortals like moro or having conditional immortality like reinhard ?

 

[Purity of Magi]

*Just casually collecting all of Lambu's feathers that keeps falling everytime his brain breaks*

 

[Lambu]

@Lambu , u used this as ur source, right

Ok, let's see the second last question

Q: I think I remember reading about the Blessing of the Phoenix - Next in some what-if story, but does Reinhard really have that sort of blessing?

A: He does have it, and if the Next goes away, he'll be given the Next Next. The world won't let him die.

Now, why would world not let him die ? Tht is explained in the Q and A when he is asked to elaborate on tht blessing which i linked u above, but let me do it again.

Q: Please give me more details on the protection of the phoenix!

A: As long as there is someone's voice asking for help in the world, even if you defeat me, the second and third servants will appear.
https://matomame.jp/jump/?url=http://ask.fm/nezumiironyanko/answers/114399689397

What can u infer from tht ?

World doesn't let him die because someone's voice is asking him for help. And i m sure 'voices in the head` is relying on 3rd party for ressurection.

And between a battle of 2 characters here, u r heavily basing on ur immortality, which is actually conditional. (Reliance on 3rd party)

And please tell me what is so lol tht author has to troll there...was question being asked lol ?
Can I not say same to all questions u posted abt reinhard because he actually LOLs when he is giving reinhard answers tht he can't be defeated etc and skips some saying movie will come out..now, if the elaboration of immortality is a troll, so is all the claims basically then.

There are multiple Q&A but thats just one of them.

As for the Blessing of the Phoenix it allows him to come back from the dead once, then that Blessing gets replaced by another one as long as he needs to keep fighting. The World means Od Laguna, not the people, but onto your argument in that tweet.

Of course as long as people are asking for help he will come back. He wants to save everyone, he's a hero. You are putting that as a requisite instead of a drive.

If he's fighting an opponent and his goal is to defeat him, he will need to revive if he were to fall. Thats what his blessing is for. On top of that, he wont see his endeavour finished until there are no voices asking for his help, its just another condition for his revival.

 

[Blakestnight666]

Now tht brings me back to the question, if Reinhard's immortality is conditional like moro's is, why shld hakai not work on him again ?

@Sachsenhesse would hakai work on semi immortals like moro or having conditional immortality like reinhard ?

I am sure hakai would work on Moro. What zamasu had was one of the most strongest form of immortality granted by super dragon balls. The same super dragon balls that could restore entire universes easily

 

[Jammin]

Now tht brings me back to the question, if Reinhard's immortality is conditional like moro's is, why shld hakai not work on him again ?

He's not immortal.. I keep telling you guys he does not have that ability.

im·mor·tal·i·ty/ˌi(m)ˌmôrˈtalədē/

noun
noun: immortality

1. the ability to live forever; eternal life.
   "eating the fruit gave the gods immortality"

He ages. He dies. He's not immortal. Never was.

 

[Blakestnight666]

h

He's not immortal.. I keep telling you guys he does not have that ability.

im·mor·tal·i·ty/ˌi(m)ˌmôrˈtalədē/

noun
noun: immortality

1. the ability to live forever; eternal life.
   "eating the fruit gave the gods immortality"

He ages. He dies. He's not immortal. Never was.

His power is more ressurection based

 

[Sachsenhesse]

@Sachsenhesse would hakai work on semi immortals like moro or having conditional immortality like reinhard ?

Define semi immortals. Moro is a though question, since he isnt strong per se, he could probaby cancel it with enough kipower, if he absorbed that much. But his normal body, would probably desintegrate. Depends really on his Ki-level when hit by that attack.

For reinhard i believe it will work, if it gets past his "defenses" but once it touches him, he gets erased and also gets no second chance for a wish to come back "trigger". If reinhard got a real good defense against it, sure he can defend it, but seeing his feats until now, he isnt quite there in my opinion.

 

[Lambu]

Oh and @lakhan220 the troll answers are clearly the Godzilla ones. Its common knowledge in the fandom that Tappei likes to meme with the movies, he brings it up as a reference to "absurdity" and op moments like "nothing beats Godzilla" lol

I guess you didnt know that, but that you took those responses and made a powerscaling from them is beyond my comprehension.

 

[Blakestnight666]

Define semi immortals. Moro is a though question, since he isnt strong per se, he could probaby cancel it with enough kipower, if he absorbed that much. But his normal body, would probably desintegrate. Depends really on his Ki-level when hit by that attack.

For reinhard i believe it will work, if it gets past his "defenses" but once it touches him, he gets erased and also gets no second chance for a wish to come back "trigger". If reinhard got a real good defense against it, sure he can defend it, but seeing his feats until now, he isnt quite there in my opinion.

Moro isn't immortal per say. He has what you call longitivity as he can survive for billions of years. He can still be killed by powerful characters. And Moro is quite strong. Strong enough to one shot vegeta

 

[Lambu]

*Just casually collecting all of Lambu's feathers that keeps falling everytime his brain breaks*

This is too much even for me, DragonBall is the bane of this tournament.

Also I feel like Im losing tons of time trying to explain stuff, way too exhausting.

 

[lakhan220]

There are multiple Q&A but thats just one of them.

As for the Blessing of the Phoenix it allows him to come back from the dead once, then that Blessing gets replaced by another one as long as he needs to keep fighting. The World means Od Laguna, not the people, but onto your argument in that tweet.

Of course as long as people are asking for help he will come back. He wants to save everyone, he's a hero. You are putting that as a requisite instead of a drive.

If he's fighting an opponent and his goal is to defeat him, he will need to revive if he were to fall. Thats what his blessing is for. On top of that, he wont see his endeavour finished until there are no voices asking for his help, its just another condition for his revival.

And what kind of heroism is needed here exactly and who exactly does he want to save ?

And it is a requisite, it is not a drive. Now u r just trying to play with words. Author was asked to explain in detail and by tht statement, it is imperative it is requisite - reliance on 3rd party.

Sure he needs to wish for blessing - he will get it, but will it work ?
No, it won't because only 2 characters and no one needs him.
Oh surely, now u try to shift it into Od laguna.....let me point out tht Od laguna has been said to have no personal feelings or will of its own. So, why would suddenly now it start needing reinhard ?

If u say for other people, again 3rd party based resurrection. certainly not for rocks or inanimate objects, right? he is a hero after all, and wants to help living beings not inanimate stuffs.

Again, tht makes it a conditional immortality.

He's not immortal.. I keep telling you guys he does not have that ability.

im·mor·tal·i·ty/ˌi(m)ˌmôrˈtalədē/

noun
noun: immortality

1. the ability to live forever; eternal life.
   "eating the fruit gave the gods immortality"

He ages. He dies. He's not immortal. Never was.

Yeah, i got tht now. Thankyou.
And certainly tht conditional immortality (resurrection) is no true immortality which hakai won't work on anymore.

Oh and @lakhan220 the troll answers are clearly the Godzilla ones. Its common knowledge in the fandom that Tappei likes to meme with the movies, he brings it up as a reference to "absurdity" and op moments like "nothing beats Godzilla" lol

I guess you didnt know that, but that you took those responses and made a powerscaling from them is beyond my comprehension.

Well, certainly, it was me trying to giving u advantage here since reinhard actually lacks any feats beyond coming back from moon. So, very much like tht akira nomination who could theoretically do big bangs.

Nevertheless, the point here is Reinhard is not truly immortal like u were making him out to be.

 

[Nie Li]

The point here is that hakai destroys souls as well as the body, right? So the important part is not really if Rein is immortal or not, but if his soul has resistances that normal souls don't.

 

[Lambu]

And what kind of heroism is needed here exactly and who exactly does he want to save ?

And it is a requisite, it is not a drive. Now u r just trying to play with words. Author was asked to explain in detail and by tht statement, it is imperative it is requisite - reliance on 3rd party.

Sure he needs to wish for blessing - he will get it, but will it work ?
No, it won't because only 2 characters and no one needs him.
Oh surely, now u try to shift it into Od laguna.....let me point out tht Od laguna has been said to have no personal feelings or will of its own. So, why would suddenly now it start needing reinhard ?

If u say for other people, again 3rd party based resurrection. certainly not for rocks or inanimate objects, right? he is a hero after all, and wants to help living beings not inanimate stuffs.

Again, tht makes it a conditional immortality.


Yeah, i got tht now. Thankyou.
And certainly tht conditional immortality (resurrection) is no true immortality which hakai won't work on anymore.



Well, certainly, it was me trying to giving u advantage here since reinhard actually lacks any feats beyond coming back from moon. So, very much like tht akira nomination who could theoretically do big bangs.

Nevertheless, the point here is Reinhard is not truly immortal like u were making him out to be.

It doesn't change that its him who decides to come back or not, theres no 3rd party involved.

Seriously, these skips on the explanations I give in order to stay on the same train are killing my interest.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2021 ---

The point here is that hakai destroys souls as well as the body, right? So the important part is not really if Rein is immortal or not, but if his soul has resistances that normal souls don't.

Spoiler!

Spoiler

None of the "debaters" care

 

[Nie Li]

Spoiler!

Spoiler

None of the "debaters" care

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Man good thing reinhard has the blessing of distinguishing salt from sugar, or he would confuse you with a chocolatebar.

 

[Jammin]

The point here is that hakai destroys souls as well as the body, right? So the important part is not really if Rein is immortal or not, but if his soul has resistances that normal souls don't.

Yeah, Lambu mentioned another layer there that involves Od Laguna which prevent his soul from being rewritten or erased. I have yet to fact check that though. It seems like it definitely prevents his existence being erased by an authority. Or at least it did for his predecessor.

The mechanics of it in particluar seem like they warrant a close look.

 

[lakhan220]

It doesn't change that its him who decides to come back or not, theres no 3rd party involved.

Seriously, these skips on the explanations I give in order to stay on the same train are killing my interest.

Seriously tho, u r in denial here when the author himself is providing it as requisite and u r shifting to reinhard getting to decide tht.

It is very simple - As long as he is not needed, he won't resurrect.
And same here, man. I have to be repetitive in denying ur denial to statement of the author himself.

The point here is that hakai destroys souls as well as the body, right? So the important part is not really if Rein is immortal or not, but if his soul has resistances that normal souls don't.

By tht logic, saiyans r completely made different and are alien races, so why shld they be at all affected by blessings or be bound to its rules , right ?

If so, this contest will never reach end as stalemate since reinhard's soul is made differently , so hakai won't work and vegeta is an alien , not human or resident of earth or born here so built differently, so he is not bound to the effects of blessings or rules of re zero world

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2021 ---

Yeah, Lambu mentioned another layer there that involves Od Laguna which prevent his soul from being rewritten or erased. I have yet to fact check that though. It seems like it definitely prevents his existence being erased by an authority. Or at least it did for his predecessor.

I would like source for tht actually, so i can check in detail too abt mechanisms surrounding it.

Sorry, but because as it is, i can't take lambu's words at face value when he avoids mentioning few critical junctures of the divine blessings aspects here.

 

[Nie Li]

By tht logic, saiyans r completely made different and are alien races, so why shld they be at all affected by blessings or be bound to its rules , right ?

If so, this contest will never reach end as stalemate since reinhard's soul is made differently , so hakai won't work and vegeta is an alien , not human or resident of earth or born here so built differently, so he is not bound to the effects of blessings or rules of re zero world

How is that my logic?

I wasn't talking about Reinhard's soul possibly being different "because he's from a different universe so he's different", but about him possibly having blessings or whatever related to that Od Laguna thing protecting his soul.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2021 ---

You jumped the gun like an olympic medalist with that post.