Semifinal Reinhard van Astrea vs. Vegeta

[lakhan220]

How is that my logic?

I wasn't talking about Reinhard's soul possibly being different "because he's from a different universe so he's different", but about him possibly having blessings or whatever related to that Od Laguna thing protecting his soul.

Well, like jammin said i wait for source so i can verify it . and my reply was to this `his soul has resistances that normal souls don't.`, which can also mean his soul is different . U didn't specify Od laguna based resistance in there.

As it stands, if re zero world protects, db verse says non immortals souls can be destroyed.

 

[Nie Li]

Well, like jammin said i wait for source so i can verify it .

As it stands, if re zero world protects, db verse says non immortals souls can be destroyed.

Yeah, I don't know either. I haven't read the rezero LN. I'm just conjecturing (that a word in English?).

 

[Lambu]

Seriously tho, u r in denial here when the author himself is providing it as requisite and u r shifting to reinhard getting to decide tht.

It is very simple - As long as he is not needed, he won't resurrect.
And same here, man. I have to be repetitive in denying ur denial to statement of the author himself.




By tht logic, saiyans r completely made different and are alien races, so why shld they be at all affected by blessings or be bound to its rules , right ?

If so, this contest will never reach end as stalemate since reinhard's soul is made differently , so hakai won't work and vegeta is an alien , not human or resident of earth or born here so built differently, so he is not bound to the effects of blessings or rules of re zero world

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2021 ---

I would like source for tht actually, so i can check in detail too abt mechanisms surrounding it.

Sorry, but because as it is, i can't take lambu's words at face value when he avoids mentioning few critical junctures of the divine blessings aspects here.

I answered all your twisted points and with enough clarity. The tweet doesn't reference to the people's wants summoning him, its his own need what brings him back.

Its pointless to discuss with someone drunk in his theories, you can go as far as say Vegeta teleports even when he directly says he can't.

How is that my logic?

I wasn't talking about Reinhard's soul possibly being different "because he's from a different universe so he's different", but about him possibly having blessings or whatever related to that Od Laguna thing protecting his soul.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2021 ---

You jumped the gun like an olympic medalist with that post.

Its No Limits Fallacy, Vegeta will break through it because he's from DragonBall. Its Natsu all over again.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021 ---

Well, like jammin said i wait for source so i can verify it .

As it stands, if re zero world protects, db verse says non immortals souls can be destroyed.

You will have to read the entirety of Arc 4-5-6 of the novel to make sense of it. Have fun! o/

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021 ---

Why am I still here... ugh.

 

[lakhan220]

I answered all your twisted points and with enough clarity. The tweet doesn't reference to the people's wants summoning him, its his own need what brings him back.

Its pointless to discuss with someone drunk in his theories, you can go as far as say Vegeta teleports even when he directly says he can't.

Sorry, but u actually answered none at all. Can od laguna survive the blast of a star ? Oh really now ? `As long as there is someone's voice asking for help ` - how did tht translate as his own need ? it is clear reliance on 3rd party here.

Its No Limits Fallacy, Vegeta will break through it because he's from DragonBall. Its Natsu all over again.

Same no limits fallacy as he resurrects because someone's voice asking for help translates to his own need . So, he resurrects and resurrection is immortality,

ou will have to read the entirety of Arc 4-5-6 of the novel to make sense of it. Have fun! o/

Not gonna. U can post transcripts like hermit did to put ur point across.

Why am I still here... ugh.

Anyways, i myself am a bit bored . Will return tomorrow if there is some spice and i m in mood for it.

 

[Nie Li]

Spoiler: Summary of today's debate

 

[Jammin]

Sorry, but because as it is, i can't take lambu's words at face value when he avoids mentioning few critical junctures of the divine blessings aspects here.

Nor should you.

 

[Asako]

I thought i knew blessing guy but do i really know him
Lak making me doubt my knowledge lambu honestly


Btw i never heard of reinhard being immoral, he never was but he does have that blessing of phoenix, and lak making me doubt the requirement for it, i mean i never thoughts blessing guy had requirements to meme with his blessings
What i do know tho that him being not being immoral doesn't matter against hakai considering it is Dodgable
And reinhard have that blessing that making him avoid all in coming projectal attacks

It's kinda the reason btw i planning on throwing all my gun campaigning on goku is cause none of them will work on reinhard

Hakai Dodgable right ? I think i remember you can dodge it but I'm no DBZ fan so i could be wrong

 

[Nie Li]

Btw i never heard of reinhard being immoral

I'm sure he has a harem blessing.

 

[Arjuna]

I don't even know what to believe anymore

Wish i was well versed in Re Zero to make a judgment.

 

[Nie Li]

Hakai Dodgable right ? I think i remember you can dodge it but I'm no DBZ fan so i could be wrong

Yeah, it's still energy projection. In fact, there are other versions of the technique that look more like the typical DB beams (but causing the target to be hakaied).

 

[Asako]

Yeah, it's still energy projection. In fact, there are other versions of the techniques that look more like the typical DB beams (but causing the target to be hakaied).

Then it's no problem with hax dodge blessing man
I dunno what why you guys been busy arguing about immortality and such for who knows how many pages
Just because of hakai and blessing of phoenix

I'm sure he has a harem blessing.

I mean he doesn't look like a playboy but maybe secretly he have it

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Hakai Dodgable right ? I think i remember you can dodge it but I'm no DBZ fan so i could be wrong

Yes it can be dodged. There are multiple forms of attack with it and i already ackowledged the possibility that reinhard doesnt get hit by it.

The thing is, his blessings arent allmighty and can be overpowered theoretically. Hakai is quite potent and can fall into that category.

If not Vegeta still has the sheer destructive power, which could erase Od Laguna etc.

 

[Valhalla]

They way i understood how the phoenix blessing works, he just has it via Od Laguna, but he is not immortal. When he dies via battle, the blessing activates and respawns him back to life, full powered. And after that he gains "phoenix next", which means the cycle continues. Thats what i got from my research during the Aladdin battle

 

[Jammin]

Then it's no problem with hax dodge blessing man
I dunno what why you guys been busy arguing about immortality and such for who knows how many pages
Just because of hakai and blessing of phoenix

Nah, the issue that Lakhan brought up is that Reinhard's blessing of the phoenix may not trigger if it requires a third party which, of course, doesn't exist in this game. Makes a pretty good case for it too, among other things.

There are actually ways around the hax dodge. Since that only activates if he can dodge. And the ranged protection specifically only effects projectiles (which beams and stuff like that obviously aren't.) So there is some fine print there too.

It's actually a pretty interesting match up. Made more interesting because a lot of Reinhards abilities have limits that seem very much up for debate. He's not like a Malphas where "She pwns everything. The end."

 

[Nie Li]

And the ranged protection specifically only effects projectiles (which beams and stuff like that obviously aren't.)

I don't think this nuance matter since he has blessings for non-projectile attacks protection anyway, but... what are those if not projectiles?

 

[Valhalla]

Nah, the issue that Lakhan brought up is that Reinhard's blessing of the phoenix may not trigger if it requires a third party which, of course, doesn't exist in this game. Makes a pretty good case for it too, among other things.

That made me think, and forgot to ask Lak about this

Off topic @lakhan220 need your opinion on this then since you brought it up.
You got Aladdin from Magi. He has this ability called Solomon's Wisdom, which connects him to a place/dimension beyond the universe called the Sacred Palace. Via this connection with the Palace, he gains various abilities ranging from Omniscience, Soul manipulation, simple but potent power boost and resistances, some sort of mind trick, etc it can even bring him back to life when he dies (although that is more gods doing that resides in the Sacred Palace). Would the Sacred Palace be considered a third party?
If it is a third party, then Solomon's Wisdom, which is one of Aladdin's most powerful abilities, cant be really used in this tournament. I personally would disagree with that since its part of Aladdin's arsenal, but there is a somewhat similar case with Rein and Od Laguna so im curious.

 

[Nie Li]

That made me think, and forgot to ask Lak about this

Off topic @lakhan220 need your opinion on this then since you brought it up.
You got Aladdin from Magi. He has this ability called Solomon's Wisdom, which connects him to a place/dimension beyond the universe called the Sacred Palace. Via this connection with the Palace, he gains various abilities ranging from Omniscience, Soul manipulation, simple but potent power boost and resistances, some sort of mind trick etc. Would the Sacred Palace be considered a third party?
If it is a third party, then Solomon's Wisdom, which is one of Aladdin's most powerful abilities, cant be really used in this tournament. I personally would disagree with that since its part of Aladdin's arsenal, but there is a somewhat similar case with Rein and Od Laguna so im curious.

I know you aren't asking me but... this is like having Shazam in a tournament and then denying his powers because he gets his power from some greek Gods to transform.

If the character has constant access to these abilities and can call upon them at will, they should be allowed. It's a different matter if we were talking about "a power that another character lent him for some specific task", like... Kakashi with Obito's Mangekyo Sharingan in both eyes in the last arc of Naruto. Or like Battler, who was also in the tournament but needed active intervention from other characters to grant him his powers, instead of them being powers that he could summon himself.

In the case of Aladdin and Reinhard, they should totally be permitted to use this ""third party"", as it's just part of their arsenal. It's not as if Od Laguna itself came into the battlefield to intervene.

 

[Valhalla]

Another good example would be Urek Mazino.
If there is no Tower of God, there would be also no shinsu, and if there is no shinsu, Urek does not have his powers. Would the Tower of God be considered a third party? If so then Urek would be useless since there is no shinsu (at least useless in this tournament)

 

[Jammin]

That made me think, and forgot to ask Lak about this

Off topic @lakhan220 need your opinion on this then since you brought it up.
You got Aladdin from Magi. He has this ability called Solomon's Wisdom, which connects him to a place/dimension beyond the universe called the Sacred Palace. Via this connection with the Palace, he gains various abilities ranging from Omniscience, Soul manipulation, simple but potent power boost and resistances, some sort of mind trick, etc it can even bring him back to life when he dies (although that is more gods doing that resides in the Sacred Palace). Would the Sacred Palace be considered a third party?
If it is a third party, then Solomon's Wisdom, which is one of Aladdin's most powerful abilities, cant be really used in this tournament. I personally would disagree with that since its part of Aladdin's arsenal, but there is a somewhat similar case with Rein and Od Laguna so im curious.

I don't read Magi so I can't comment on that.

But I know the point he was making wasn't about Od Laguna. That's a given. Since it has to exist for him to have any abilities. The author said in reply to somebody asking for details about the Phoenix Blessing.

"As long as there is someone's voice asking for help in the world, even if you defeat me, the second and third servants will appear."

So according to that there needs to be a person other than him asking for help.

Lambu's reply to this is that it's a joke and shouldn't be taken seriously. But considering how often he's quoted the shin godzilla stuff which sounds like even more of a joke. I don't know if it actually is. It sounds an awful lot like he's trying to have it both ways with those author Q&A comments and got burned.

 

[Valhalla]

I don't read Magi so I can't comment on that.

But I know the point he was making wasn't about Od Laguna. That's a given. Since it has to exist for him to have any abilities. The author said in reply to somebody asking for details about it.

"As long as there is someone's voice asking for help in the world, even if you defeat me, the second and third servants will appear."

So according to that there needs to be a person other than him asking for help.

Lambu's reply to this is that it's a joke and shouldn't be taken seriously. But considering how often he's quoted the shin godzilla stuff which sounds like even more of a joke. I don't know if it actually is. It sounds an awful lot like he's trying to have it both ways with those author Q&A comments.

Ah, i see yeah the Magi stuff was more like comparison
but it looks like i kinda missed Lak's main point then
Didnt really think about the asking stuff, i was thinking more like the use of outside tools that some characters are connected to and can or must use

@lakhan220 ignore my question then, seems like i failed to fully understand the main point of your argument