Semifinal Reinhard van Astrea vs. Vegeta

[Purity of Magi]

Battler, who was also in the tournament but needed active intervention from other characters to grant him his powers

? Wat xD

 

[Nie Li]

I don't read Magi so I can't comment on that.

But I know the point he was making wasn't about Od Laguna. That's a given. Since it has to exist for him to have any abilities. The author said in reply to somebody asking for details about it.

"As long as there is someone's voice asking for help in the world, even if you defeat me, the second and third servants will appear."

So according to that there needs to be a person other than him asking for help.

Lambu's reply to this is that it's a joke and shouldn't be taken seriously. But considering how often he's quoted the shin godzilla stuff which sounds like even more of a joke. I don't know if it actually is. It sounds an awful lot like he's trying to have it both ways with those author Q&A comments and got burned.

I'm not going to fight Lambu's battles but that wasn't his reply to that point. He explained how that is not a requirement for the resurrection blessing.

 

[Valhalla]

Oh shit, here comes the Umineko expert

 

[Nie Li]

? Wat xD

Going by what was said about him in his battle thread. He ended up with an early defeat because of that against some joke character called Nora.

 

[Jammin]

I'm not going to fight Lambu's battles but that wasn't his reply to that point. He explained how that is not a requirement for the resurrection blessing.

That is correct. He claims that Q&A answer was a joke. Not intended to be an explanation of how that blessing works.

EDIT: And he does provide his alternate explanation.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2021 ---

No idea how he can prove that though considering how many times he cited silly stuff from those author Q&As already. Logically he's put himself in quite a pickle.

 

[Purity of Magi]

Going by what was said about him in his battle thread. He ended up with an early defeat because of that against some joke character called Nora.

Ah yeah, I have read that thread closely as a beautiful spectator and had certainly a joy watching the nomination suffer and getting crushed to its finest.

If one cannot win or defend their nominations because of zero knowledge, using battle thread as arguments/facts and anything like that and losing against a gag character (which was fucking hilarious btw) then you should just simply perish/suffer for that matter alone.

That aside, the narrative where he comes from should never ever been seen from a shonen perspective at all smh.

 

[Asako]

We talked about this in our little corner but arjuna just didn't know how to use battler powers
Battler actually really good it just... Well arjuna you can't speedrun a series when you don't know much about it especially when umineko is one of the most time consuming series to understand =3=

Spoiler: This is actually more accurate to battler powers

If only arjuna knew
=3=

Jokes aside it just Arjuna didn't know much about battler

Ignore this post those that looking about reinhard and vegeta, this is about battler

 

[Valhalla]

We talked about this in our little corner but arjuna just didn't know how to use battler powers
Battler actually really good it just... Well arjuna you can't speed run a series when you don't know much about it especially when umineko is one of the most tike consuming series to understand =3=

Spoiler: This is actually more accurate to battler powers

If only arjuna knew

Plus you got Magu behind the scenes, watching carefully for Umineko inconsistencies ...

 

[GrySun]

So now that this has calmed down...

Who should I vote? Who is the stronger one?

 

[Sachsenhesse]

So now that this has calmed down...

Who should I vote? Who is the stronger one?

 

[Valhalla]

So now that this has calmed down...

Who should I vote? Who is the stronger one?

 

[Nie Li]

We're all still in Aizen's illusion from a few matches ago.

 

[Seven777]

You still dont get its not about tanking, destroying planets/stars or whatever, it isnt about speedblitzing either.

Reinhard can slash anything including concepts. Whatever Vegeta uses it will be nullified. Thats greater than any ki blast or technique the saiyans can pull off.
He's stated to be capable of moving as fast as he wants in his universe parameters, theres a reason hax characters like him get the handicap of "equalized speed" to their opponents when making a VS
Reinhard is capable of tanking attacks that ignore any form of defence, attacks unaffected by the concept of time that can vaporize anything no matter what.

That's why I'm asking for feats.
What has Reinhard slashed?
What has Reinhard nullified?
What has he tanked?
How fast has he moved?
Rather than just taking your word claiming "that's greater than any ki blast a saiyan can pull off", I'd like to see something tangible. Anyone can say somethings better, showing it is a bit harder. So I say again what has Reinhard done?

 

[Blakestnight666]

So now that this has calmed down...

Who should I vote? Who is the stronger one?

Vegeta

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 30, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 30, 2021 ---

That's why I'm asking for feats.
What has Reinhard slashed?
What has Reinhard nullified?
What has he tanked?
How fast has he moved?
Rather than just taking your word claiming "that's greater than any ki blast a saiyan can pull off", I'd like to see something tangible. Anyone can say somethings better, showing it is a bit harder. So I say again what has Reinhard done?

he killed puck who was destroying the world a.k.a planet and resets it. And he has tons of protection which are pretty useless against higher power verses

 

[Copy Panda]

Ah yeah, I have read that thread closely as a beautiful spectator and had certainly a joy watching the nomination suffer and getting crushed to its finest.

If one cannot win or defend their nominations because of zero knowledge, using battle thread as arguments/facts and anything like that and losing against a gag character (which was fucking hilarious btw) then you should just simply perish/suffer for that matter alone.

That aside, the narrative where he comes from should never ever been seen from a shonen perspective at all smh.

Truly arjuna level outcome

 

[Lambu]

That's why I'm asking for feats.
What has Reinhard slashed?
What has Reinhard nullified?
What has he tanked?
How fast has he moved?
Rather than just taking your word claiming "that's greater than any ki blast a saiyan can pull off", I'd like to see something tangible. Anyone can say somethings better, showing it is a bit harder. So I say again what has Reinhard done?

I already answered all those questions except what has he nullified, which is he's capable of nullifying Authorities with Reid, which are absolute powers beyond universal laws. He can cut through the mere concept of things as he slashed through reality itself.

All the other questions I already answered and some of them directly to you. Save me the trouble of explaining the same for the upteenth time please.

That is correct. He claims that Q&A answer was a joke. Not intended to be an explanation of how that blessing works.

EDIT: And he does provide his alternate explanation.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2021 ---

No idea how he can prove that though considering how many times he cited silly stuff from those author Q&As already. Logically he's put himself in quite a pickle.

Yeah Jams, if you are trying to piss me off you are succeeding with full marks.
Now, if you are not then you should reconsider how good your reading capabilities are.

The twitter that was clearly a joke was the Godzilla one, which Lak instantly used to claim Reinhard's pOwEr LeVeL is that of Godzilla in DragonBall's cringeworthy fashion and make calculations from it.

The other one, about Reinhard always coming back as long as someone asks for help is a twist on Lak's part that he sold as a "panacea" for the entire debate, and I explained a 3rd party doesn't have a play in there, its his own will and I corrected it here:

There are multiple Q&A but thats just one of them.

As for the Blessing of the Phoenix it allows him to come back from the dead once, then that Blessing gets replaced by another one as long as he needs to keep fighting. The World means Od Laguna, not the people, but onto your argument in that tweet.

Of course as long as people are asking for help he will come back. He wants to save everyone, he's a hero. You are putting that as a requisite instead of a drive.

If he's fighting an opponent and his goal is to defeat him, he will need to revive if he were to fall. Thats what his blessing is for. On top of that, he wont see his endeavour finished until there are no voices asking for his help, its just another condition for his revival.

You are not reading or straight up dont want to, its worse than discussing with a wall because at least the wall doesn't throw misinformation born from ignorance in return.

You keep spitting my arguments are untrustworthy, claiming I lie when all I said has never been proved wrong and when someone challenged my arguments I answered back.
Moreover, when I asked you twice to prove when have I ever lied you run away with your tail between your legs, unable to say anything because you didn't even read my arguments through the entire event. Its beyond sad to slander someone and lay it down as "playing around" you know that?

Truly disappointing, if this is your idea of debating I will not waste any more time answering you.

 

[Seven777]

I already answered all those questions except what has he nullified, which is he's capable of nullifying Authorities with Reid, which are absolute powers beyond universal laws. He can cut through the mere concept of things as he slashed through reality itself.

All the other questions I already answered and some of them directly to you. Save me the trouble of explaining the same for the upteenth time please.

Hate to break it to you, but "universal laws" don't mean anything, their strength always vary from series to series. What I want to know is, how big was the attack he nullified? Mountain sized? Planet sized? Universe sized? Something tangible.

You did answer the speed one, true. Raindrops, right.... Reinhard can't touch Vegeta if that's all he's got under his belt.

Slashing through reality also means nothing, Buu can scream through reality, no one cares about that, nor should they. What has Reinhard slashed? Who is the most durable character he's cut? What's the largest structure he's cut? As I recall Elsa's blades didn't snap in one hit. I know Reinhard wasn't using his sword, but as I understand it, his blessings are separate from his sword. And yet these "always active blessings" Didn't cut through her daggers. I'm not seeing anything from Reinhard that suggests he's cutting Vegeta.

Haha, let's not pretend you actually answered the points, you ignore them because you know they fuck your arguement. Saying nonsense like "it's well beyond saiyans or ki blasts" or "it's above universe laws" is not answering a point, it's just a fancy way for you to say you think Reinhard is better.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 30, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 30, 2021 ---

Actually, now that I think about it, Reinhard wasn't even fast enough to save Subaru from Elsa. Really he should've defeated her in 2 seconds flat, with none of his friends injured and the enemy not escaping to kill again. It'd take Vegeta much less than two seconds to take care of her, and he wouldn't need a spirit art or a technique either, Elsa also would not have escaped.

 

[Valhalla]

This turned out to be a more tougher battle than i thought very eager to see how it wraps up

Question, can Vegeta destroy Rein? If he can, can he do it for good.
Easy answer imo is, no. But i like to see what the DB fans think.
Even if Vegeta might be stronger, he still cant kill Rein for good, right, as far as i know.

As long as he has the phoenix blessing and his Reid sword which protects him from even god powers, attacks like hakai should not finish him for good, nor would it affect him. And Vegeta's hakai is still in question, i dont even know why this attack is even considered. He just started to train it.
As for Rein, If he dies, he will come back ready and full powered. Unless Vegeta can fight forever, i dont think he would outlast Rein.

I dont doubt Vegeta's strength, and if this was a contest between raw power, Vegeta would take it, but this aint a DB tournament, but a crossover tournament, and we gotta take into account everything that Reinhard has to offer as well, divine blessings and his Reid Sword. There are limits to Re:Zero abilities, but there are limits to DB as well. Raw power can carry someone only so far, and even if you can miraculously overpower hax, can the character overpower it indefinitely. Does he have a way to go around hax, a way other than just overpower overpower.

I think its really hard to talk DB in tournaments like these in general, because of the very reason that they only got ki and raw power as arguments.

As for Re:Zero laws and powers, there is much more to talk about in that department i think; will their powers work on DB characters, what are the limits of Re:Zero powers, can characters "die when they are killed" () , can some powers be equalized with certain DB powers etc. things like this is all up to Lambu to convince you. I can only give my opinion here, with info and knowledge that i had to gather during the Aladdin vs Rein fight

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 30, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 30, 2021 ---

Well either way, im entertained

 

[lakhan220]

As long as he has the phoenix blessing and his Reid sword which protects him from even god powers, attacks like hakai should not finish him for good, nor would it affect him. And Vegeta's hakai is still in question, i dont even know why this attack is even considered. He just started to train it.
As for Rein, If he dies, he will come back ready and full powered. Unless Vegeta can fight forever, i dont think he would outlast Rein.

And the very said gods in the DB universe can be defeated and when u translate tht to rezero world, like i provided the comparison, what is stopping them ?

The way I see it,
Rezero world Authority>Blessings>everything else
DB world Zeno>angels>gods of destruction>supreme kais>Grand kai>Normal kais

Now, if we were to straight up compare there, u know where the blessings and authority would end. It is very simple tht while all the advantages of rezero world r being given to reinhard, but at same time, DB characters are being denied everything. They can fight gods & angels themselves, but here they can't fight the blessing or authority, the contemporary in re zero world.
Then there is sheer magnitude which even jammin indicated tht Lambu claims rezero world = Universe and he rewrote world = universe ? Really now ?
Where r the lines the sun flickered, it turned black, the universe and other planets started rumbling themselves etc etc etc. DB world portrays it. They have to at least say a line abt it.

Even in Naruto, it was said juubi can destroy world...did it mean whole universe ? No
So, when u bring 2 verses, all efforts r done on alleviating reinhard to universal level which he is not , while DB characters are there.

My question was simple. What stops vegeta from blasting sun itself and destroy od laguna itself and stop the resurrection cycle itself?

Tht brings me to blessing of phoenix - clearly states 'As long as there is someone's voice asking for help in the world, even if you defeat me, the second and third servants will appear." `, meaning post death, he is still needed by the world for sake of someone else.
And 2- World keeps on bringing him back because it needs him.

Inference - world is bringing him back for sake of someone else.

Now lambu's claim
1-It was a joke
2-then he turned it into he is saying tht for himself

No, now reenact this scenario as per lambu's explanation , there r only 2 characters in the world ....Reinhard dies, he calls himself back as he needs him back, meaning when he is soul he is hearing his own voices, and world is bringing him back for sake of his own self .....how does tht even make sense ?

Soul which shld exist in complete different plane is calling its own self for help...so who is actually hearing it - od laguna ?
but explanation states world needed him is why he is brought back, if there r no people in the world, for what reason would od laguna bring it back ?

Tht statement clearly states, tht someone needs help and he hears their voice is why he is brought back. How would one call themselves....is he having split personalities now ?

See, it is very clear like i said yesterday, it relies on someone asking for help (whose voices he hears) is why he is being brought back, means it is a requisite here , a 3rd party interference. My question is simple - Why would vegeta wish for his help ? And if noone wants his help....u know rest.

Also other point, vegeta's hakai. It was not a matter of magnitude, but the claims tht as he is immortal , hakai shld not work on him which is wrong because this is ressurection and conditional immortality.

My point is rather simple here

1-If u really wanna make verses battle, u have to bring them to table giving both of them advantages

Reality here - Saiyans can fight Gods and angels too, but here, they can't fight divine blessings which r supposed to be their contemporaries.

2-World here - the earth = Universe for rezero, when clearly it has stated no clear effect to anything outside solar system
But DB world - the clashes of beerus and goku was felt as shockwaves in completely different worlds, galaxies away.

Reality here - Buff reinhard to universal level when no indication at all for effects even at jupiter much less the other galaxy , but nerf saiyans.

Sorry, but the way it has been presented in this thread , it is just double standards completely.
If u r gonna nerf the destroyer who could destroy a solar system+ in SSJ2, u have to give him further advantage in other aspects..it just cannot be one sided completely.

Anyways, meh, i m bored kinda.
but as for ur question yesterday, i have tried giving source and explanation in posts. I am not rejecting the od laguna, but saying the requisite here for phoenix doesn't fit the tournament as it is established - since reliance on 3rd party.

As for talking to himself and calling out to himself for help as soul from other plane , it really just doesn't make sense at all when clearly it says.....someone. Why would u call urself out for ur own help as souls ?

 

[Hardy]

My question was simple. What stops vegeta from blasting sun itself and destroy od laguna itself and stop the resurrection cycle itself?

He would die too with no Sun? Sounds like a big reason.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 30, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 30, 2021 ---

"WHAT STOPS VEGETA FROM KILLING HIMSELF!???"