Society Religious Discussion and Q&A Thread

[Sanity Check]

This is great content.

 

[Franz]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/gdpr-consent/?next_url=https%3a%2f%2fwww.washingtonpost.com%2fworld%2feurope%2fpope-francis-civil-unions%2f2020%2f10%2f21%2f805a601c-139e-11eb-a258-614acf2b906d_story.html

Here

 

[M3J]

That's pretty cool of him, homosexuality should be normalized. Funny how the religious bigots are turning against him though

 

[Franckie]

What did that move actually accomplish, other than pissing people off?

Israel has never once had any intention of foregoing its claim over Jerusalem and the Palestinians are a hopeless cause. The decision is long overdue in recognizing this reality. Also, the decision hardly pissed anyone off. Israel has gained relations with 3 countries (UAE, Bahrain, Kosovo) in the last month. Serbia has also agreed to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

Somalia, Sudan, Mali, Mauritania, and Oman are probably the most likely next candidates to normalize relations with Israel. Pakistan too if the Pakistani army has its way over the current Islamist Populist government. Saudi's apparently are still hesitant to do it directly but they still approved of Bahrain normalizing relations with Israel too. (Bahrain is a Saudi vassal state and occupied currently by Saudi soldiers.)

 

[M3J]

I mean, the substance is there. That democrats are too weak to even try to fight to make their case and their audience has a a mashed potato brain that can't grasp any nuance is a different issue...

Thank you for proving my point. Did the Dems even genuinely care though or were they just trying to use it to rally their supporters?

Republicans forgetting to sign into their fake accounts getting caught (by their other colleagues, lol)

Not surprised. But it also makes you wonder how many Republicans have done this as well. :\


Imran Khan is definitely a hypocrite. Dude talks about Islamophobia in other countries like India (rightfully so), but ignores the Muslims in China being detained and tortured, as well as Ahmadis and Shia being killed in his own country.

 

[hokageji]

Imran Khan is definitely a hypocrite. Dude talks about Islamophobia in other countries like India (rightfully so), but ignores the Muslims in China being detained and tortured, as well as Ahmadis and Shia being killed in his own country.

Totally... In India, its true to an extent. and agree with you.
Man and i thought he will bring some liberal policies in that country. Not sure if it is true, but there was an article some time ago taht said Pakistan's most liberal time for woman was during Musharraf...

But he's not alone, its quite common in a lot of muslim nations.. People are wrong in blaming France and not criticising Samuel Paty's killers at the same time.

 

[M3J]

I think many people thought he would, but I think Sunnis are privileged so it's not like him ignoring what the minority Muslims go through would affect them or his popularity with them.

France deserves some blame, but no one should be killing anyone over religion.

 

[hokageji]

France deserves some blame, but no one should be killing anyone over religion.

How do they deserve blame?

 

[M3J]

Aren't the cartoonists okay with stuff like drawing Mohammad? I think if religious people don't like that, whether Muslims, Hindus, or otherwise, then people should respect their wishes. But anyway, the Blasphemy Law in Pakistan is disgusting, and I'm glad that at least, USA is open-minded enough to not tolerate that shit.

 

[hokageji]

If the law particularly allows this in the term freedom of speech, i dont see anything wrong in that. If they allow that for Muhammad, but dont allow it for Jesus, then its a problem.

Was the cartoon, distasteful, inconsiderate, inappropriate? Maybe... but should people be allowed to? Yes they should. And Macron vows to protect such expression and not be bullied into changing the law, that should be commended as well.

 

[M3J]

But also, punish the killers. It's disturbing how many Muslims are defending the murder.

 

[hokageji]

Yes, i think the islamic world should be condemning the attacks... and by islamic world, i dont mean common people, religious and political leaders. Common people don't owe an apology or condemnation to France, but leaders who criticized France definitely should've.

 

[kkck]

Aren't the cartoonists okay with stuff like drawing Mohammad? I think if religious people don't like that, whether Muslims, Hindus, or otherwise, then people should respect their wishes. But anyway, the Blasphemy Law in Pakistan is disgusting, and I'm glad that at least, USA is open-minded enough to not tolerate that shit.

The cartoonist and people showing the cartoons have exactly zero blame for this. They were victims of unhinged lunatics who think their silly religious interpretation stands above basic human rights. People have a right to draw, depict, wear or shit on whichever religious figure they please.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 11, 2020 ---

But also, punish the killers. It's disturbing how many Muslims are defending the murder.

TBH to me this straight up terrifying. It completely changed my view of the muslim world as a whole... To me it looks like about 40% of the muslim world actually believes the rest of us, even when we specifically don't belong to their religion, still have to follow their laws. I could buy their most extreme fanatics and their most insane leaders being this unhinged but if a percentage that huge of their culture as a whole stands by a believe THAT monstrous and barbaric...

 

[Newkerzy]

Was the cartoon, distasteful, inconsiderate, inappropriate? Maybe... but should people be allowed to? Yes they should. And Macron vows to protect such expression and not be bullied into changing the law, that should be commended as well.

Yes. Yes. It was. Coming from a Muslim myself, I’m fine if someone made a joke about the Prophet so long as it’s actually tasteful and funny. Depicting the prophet as a progenitor of mass murderers, is not. What people are doing by defending the likes of Charlie Hebdo and Jyllands-Posten, they are enabling the likes of Trumpists around the world. If this keeps up, you will eventually find Europe in the same boat as the US one day. You’re close, but luckily dodged a bullet in recent years.

It won’t last long, however.

 

[kkck]

I mean, it seems a lot of religious people are that much of fanatics. Didn't some Hindus kill Muslims in India because they claimed the Muslim killed a cow or something? The current climate in India is that if you're not pro-Hindu, you're Hinduphobic and deserve to get beaten up.

Sure, any religion can and will have its nutjobs. And not just religion but also ideologies... But it's one thing for a religion to have it's nutjobs here and there and its another when the culture itself, when a representative part of the group in question is just ok with the casual murder of someone over a cartoon.

 

[M3J]

I watched almost all of Hunter Biden's sex tapes that were leaked. That guy is a freak and a savage. But I don't think anything negative about him. He has videos of him banging his own niece, but whatever man. Who am I to judge. Its been claimed the lead actress of disney's new Mulan movie, Liu Yifei, is in some of Hunter's sex videos. There are interesting poltiical implications surrounding that, with some claiming Liu Yifei works for the chinese communist party.

I seem to remember Stormy Daniels confirmed for attending NXIVM parties. Which could be a conflict of interest as far as her accusations on Trump go. There are so many different angles and unknowns. I don't know how people can treat these topics as if they were validated by peer reviewed science. There's just so much that we don't know, that can't be explained by watching the news or reading an article.

Why do I feel like you're lying? Even if you're not, it's very creepy of you to be watching a guy's sex tapes. Are you attracted to Hunter? This whole thing sounds like some weird conspiracy theory shit from QANON. You need to learn how to fact check things instead of believing memes.

Ironically, you do exactly that - treating topics as if they were validated just because it's what you want to believe.

Sure, any religion can and will have its nutjobs. And not just religion but also ideologies... But it's one thing for a religion to have it's nutjobs here and there and its another when the culture itself, when a representative part of the group in question is just ok with the casual murder of someone over a cartoon.

I mean, my main reason for being so defensive is because of all the bigotry Muslims face every day, even when they do nothing, and often ironically. The religion itself, I don't care for.

 

[kkck]

I mean, my main reason for being so defensive is because of all the bigotry Muslims face every day, even when they do nothing, and often ironically. The religion itself, I don't care for.

Under normal circumstances I would agree. But if even 30% of the muslim world is ok with those murders... Then you are talking about a culture who is largely ok with any one of us being murdered over depicting their silly prophet. We are talking about a extremely basic human right...

 

[Sanity Check]

I mean, my main reason for being so defensive is because of all the bigotry Muslims face every day

All that bigotry muslims face.

You mean.

Like this.

...

Or were you referring to Trump's attempts to regulate illegal immigration?

As america lacks sufficient job openings to employ high numbers of illegals crossing the border?

 

[McNuss]

Yes. Yes. It was. Coming from a Muslim myself, I’m fine if someone made a joke about the Prophet so long as it’s actually tasteful and funny. Depicting the prophet as a progenitor of mass murderers, is not. What people are doing by defending the likes of Charlie Hebdo and Jyllands-Posten, they are enabling the likes of Trumpists around the world. If this keeps up, you will eventually find Europe in the same boat as the US one day. You’re close, but luckily dodged a bullet in recent years.

It won’t last long, however.

I am an atheist and I think something like this should be allowed by law, but loathed by society.

I mean there is a reason why such caricatures simply don't exist about Jesus Christ, even though portraying him as a pedophile would be more plausible than someone from the early middle ages with modern TNT bombs.

But the problem isn't even the caricature, it is France. France has very deeply rooted proplems with racism, poverty and social separation.

I mean why the fuck did half a dozen elite cops have to kill an 18 year old armed with just a knife? WTF! Arrest him and take him to court? Democracy? Human rights? Hello?

The following terrorist attacks in Nizza and Vienna were to be expected, I mean in the eyes of his supporters the killer of Samuel Paty must have become a martyrer.

But no one really criticizes France here since the German-French friendship ensures hegemony within the EU for both of us.

Funny thing is, all German politicians right now are in defense of the Hebdo caricatures, despite the fact that these would be 100% illegal in Germany and Samuel Paty would be facing a lawsuit, which he would likely have won since it all was for educational purposes but still. The currently co-ruling CSU is even all about sharpening the blasphemy laws. Ah this hypocrisy...

That said, I am all for getting rid of blasphemy laws and pretty much afraid of the possibility of CSU leader Markus Söder becoming our next Chancellor.

 

[Newkerzy]

But the thing is, all these countries were de facto no longer real enemies, as they are all allies of the US. And they all had an aligning anti-Iran agenda before.

The general consensus here is that this is just symbolism that Trump was able to get because his son-in-law Kushner is best friends with Netanyahu.

Also if the Palestinians are to be given up (do you actually support ethnocide here?), then that's also a declaration of bankruptcy for the Israeli democracy. It has been 25 years now since Rabin got murdered.

Fortunately, Netanyahu's time is limited now and this is something where I hope that the Biden administration will capitalize on to bring forward actual progress towards peace in the region.




Merkel must have been really angry as she is a profound transatlantic herself. Obama and Merkel wanted to negotiate a free trade agreement, TTIP, which faced massive criticism among the population here even before Trump closed any windows on it.

A lot of this criticism was justified, but a lot also came from general mistrust.

The one that mainly benefited from the spy scandal was Russia. The perfect fuel for their conspiracy theory bullshit stuff.

The problem is, the memory of the public lasts longer than the daily topics in politics. Before the NSA scandal, there was the lie around the Iraq War and other stuff before and this creates permanent damage of mistrust.

Mistrust on which right-wing populists capitalized. We still got like a dozen of "Trumps" left in Europe.

So as far as foreign politics go, I think this is actually a pretty big question.

The Biden administration will have its hands full with fixing just the damage caused by Trump but I also hope they get that there has already been damage present before.


Everyone here expects Biden to rejoin the Paris Agreement but otherwise to just tackle it moderately.

This could become interesting here as many expect the Green Party to form a coalition with the CDU after the next election in 2021. By their nature they would get the Minister of the Environment and as the junior partner in a coalition likely the Minister of Foreign Affairs as well. More and stronger international agreements regarding climate change are one of their main promises to their voters so it would be interesting to see wether the EU and the US are willing to put something up together. The chances will likely be there.

No, and honestly I have no idea what the plan is here.

The interests of the US and the EU are already conflicting too much here.

For Russia it is obviously because it is a part of Europe. Granted, with Merkel you have someone that is strongly opposed to Putin but the limits of reality in Europe might be much tighter than the US would want them to be.

Even within the EU this is a dividing topic.

And for China, I can only say what is the case for Germany but China makes us rich.
But I also think that no one has any good idea on what to do with China and there might be none at all.


Hopefully.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 12, 2020 ---

I am an atheist and I think something like this should be allowed by law, but loathed by society.

I mean there is a reason why such caricatures simply don't exist about Jesus Christ, even though portraying him as a pedophile would be more plausible than someone from the early middle ages with modern TNT bombs.

But the problem isn't even the caricature, it is France. France has very deeply rooted proplems with racism, poverty and social separation.

I mean why the fuck did half a dozen elite cops have to kill an 18 year old armed with just a knife? WTF! Arrest him and take him to court? Democracy? Human rights? Hello?

The following terrorist attacks in Nizza and Vienna were to be expected, I mean in the eyes of his supporters the killer of Samuel Paty must have become a martyrer.

But no one really criticizes France here since the German-French friendship ensures hegemony within the EU for both of us.

Funny thing is, all German politicians right now are in defense of the Hebdo caricatures, despite the fact that these would be 100% illegal in Germany and Samuel Paty would be facing a lawsuit, which he would likely have won since it all was for educational purposes but still. The currently co-ruling CSU is even all about sharpening the blasphemy laws. Ah this hypocrisy...

That said, I am all for getting rid of blasphemy laws and pretty much afraid of the possibility of CSU leader Markus Söder becoming our next Chancellor.

Blasphemy laws are always a double-edged sword. On one hand, you could uphold it as a way to root out/discourage racism. On the other hand, it’s not uncommon for people to abuse it to suit their own interests, especially for political reasons. Again, it’s not completely infallible. Blasphemy laws on paper should work, but in practice, it’s often used a way for authorities and unsavories to abuse their power.

The real question is, how do we root out racism using legal instruments? How do we use punishment, (alongside education) to stamp out racism? Normally, you stamp out racism by discouraging it and using softer methods, but a hard rule of law could also be beneficial as well. That’s a thousand-year question.