Character Saddest original G10 member?

[-Ken-]

If I have to guess, Kaji power is probably where the original #5 should be. (Original as in no hidden power)

Kishin Oni is probably #1-3, contending with Ryoga and Byoudonin.

PoP Oni, I don't know.

 

[Phantron]

Why would there be an empty spot on the original #4? It's not like the U17 camp is lacking in people. You can simply bump everyone one spot if #4 was really Irie or Tokugawa who refused to go and also refused to give up his position for whatever reason and grab a new guy as the new #20. In general the coaches don't really care about the fate of the losers. The coaches didn't care that the guys on court #2 are sent home packing by the Black Jackets even though that's not what's supposed to happen (the losers are supposed to just move down in court).

 

[Kaoz]

Why would there be an empty spot on the original #4?

Maybe for the same reason that they didn't replace No. 2 despite Tanegashima not going? That is, they didn't forfeit their spot like Oni did, but just decided against traveling.

 

[Phantron]

Maybe for the same reason that they didn't replace No. 2 despite Tanegashima not going? That is, they didn't forfeit their spot like Oni did, but just decided against traveling.

But since Tanegashima got introduced as the #2 when the U17 team returned, shouldn't they also re-introduce Irie or Tokugawa had they been the #4? Or at least say, 'Hey Tokugawa/Irie, sorry to let you know Byodouin picked another guy to replace you while we're overseas!' From what I can tell the badge is supposed to be unique so if #4 was Irie/Tokugawa while still having their position like Tanegashima, then the #4 badge should still be in Japan, and yet we can see Ryoga clearly has the current #4 badge.

---------- Post added at 04:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:59 AM ----------

I also think you can rule out Tokugawa as #4 in any case because he's only going after Byodouin so that means he wants the #1. I don't see him as a guy who settles for anything less than that. Irie could be #4 in terms of his personality/strength but his dialogue with Akiba doesn't seem right. If he's the former #4, he sure isn't getting much respect from someone who is #20, not to mention it seems kind of backwards the former #4 would be challenging the current #20 for a badge.

 

[Kaoz]

Surely they have spare badges in case one gets lost or something? And technically yes, but for the sake of tension or whatever I could see that being thrown into a flashback in the future instead.

---------- Post added at 11:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 AM ----------

I don't think we know enough about Tokugawa to say he wouldn't take No. 4. As for Irie, if you look at Oni's situation, just BJK was apparently enough for No. 5 before, but in order to beat Kaji he pulled out at least part of his actual skills, so the abilities of the first string has apparently risen considerably while they were abroad.

 

[-Ken-]

It at least probably raise at least a little. I assume that from this.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/new_prince_of_tennis/v04/c058/4.html

 

[Phantron]

When the U17 team came back they said if they're not careful the reserve team could've passed them up.

So the fact that some people on the reserve team could've gotten spots on the official team is nothing special in itself. Of course Tokugawa and Irie are likely good enough to be on the official team but they chose to stay behind. If they used to have a position they sure weren't introduced as the ex #4 or whatever player.

I'm pretty sure Tanegashima is supposed to have fear of flying, not just 'he didn't want to travel' so he's the only one with a legitmate reason to not go. Staying behind to train the team is all noble and cool, but as we see in Oni's case you still got to leave your badge behind. Not like that matters because if you're good enough, you can always get it back.

 

[-Ken-]

Fear of flying =/= Hate airplane for me. It could mean he hate because he fear it, but I just think he get drunk on airplane, so he decided not to travel. I don't think Tanegashima had a valid excuse at all.

 

[Phantron]

Fear of flying =/= Hate airplane for me. It could mean he hate because he fear it, but I just think he get drunk on airplane, so he decided not to travel. I don't think Tanegashima had a valid excuse at all.

If he just doesn't like to travel that seems like a pretty weak excuse to not travel abroad, though then again the whole U17 team seems pretty messed up anyway. I mean right now I won't be surprised if Akutsu just mugs a random G10 member that isn't good at fighting and bury them in an unmarked grave and take their badge and just said "Yeah I won this badge fair and square, that guy isn't coming back to camp" and I doubt anyone will even suspect of any wrongdoing. So in light of that I never thought it was all that weird a guy may have been stranded in a foreign country too.

 

[-Ken-]

The 1st stringer tends to have the general stupid do whatever you want attitude anyhow.

Byoudonin go train off camp for a bit after he lose to Oni.
Irie "1st stringer level" stays in camp to train people.
Tokugawa, another "1st stringer level" also stays behind until he can beat Byoudonin.
Oni also decide to stays in camp to train people, even leaving his title as #1 behind.
Kimijima pretty much takes out #8 player of ALL japan, and he doesn't even get an eye blink.
Tohno just bash around and shot ball at every loser in sight.
Duke was #3, but he doesn't really get like he's in that high of a position. He pretty act like Byoudonin yes man.
If #4 exist, he's stranded in another country although he used to be all hail as part of G10, the "Ultimate Army".
I won't be at all surprise if Shuuji just stays behind because he doesn't like traveling on airplane.

Weak excuse, yes, I agree. But I think this arc as a whole is sloppy writing at best. Although I do think G10 match are rather enjoyable to read.

 

[Phantron]

The whole G10 is almost a caricature of some kind of corrupt government. Byodouin doesn't even respect the coaches though it's fair to say there's probably no reason why he should care for their advice.

Tanegashima probably lucked out since if he went with the team, it's most likely he would be the one who's not coming back to Japan. I can see Ryoga's thought process when he meets the U17 team overseas, it'd be like:

Thinks or maybe plays Byodouin and realize he can't beat him (or at least not easily).
Thinks about the #2 except the #2 isn't even present.
Thinks about #3 but he's Byodouin's yes-man and the obligatory token power player, and Ryoga is obviously not the token power player.

So #4 gets the axe, which would've been #2 if Tanegashima came along.

 

[Hardy]

And what if Tanegashima is better than Ryoga? Then, Ryoga wouldn't appear in the series at all.

Doesn't sound too cool...

 

[AlexisMeade]

I don't think the higher the number the stronger one is, since the system is shuffle matches. Let's say Ryoga is stronger than Byoudouin. Can he challenge Byoudouin to a formal shuffle match betting their number? Would it be even necessary, since they both are part of the G10 who have the right to go places anyway. IMO Mouri and Ochi are much cooler and probably stronger than Kimijima-Tohno, double-wise.

 

[Phantron]

I don't think the higher the number the stronger one is, since the system is shuffle matches. Let's say Ryoga is stronger than Byoudouin. Can he challenge Byoudouin to a formal shuffle match betting their number? Would it be even necessary, since they both are part of the G10 who have the right to go places anyway. IMO Mouri and Ochi are much cooler and probably stronger than Kimijima-Tohno, double-wise.

While I'm sure the ordering is not strictly that of power, I think it's pretty safe to assume that the guy with the #1 badge is indeed the strongest, and if Ryoga is sure he can win I don't see why he didn't challenge Byodouin.

 

[Ninomiya]

I don't think the higher the number the stronger one is, since the system is shuffle matches. Let's say Ryoga is stronger than Byoudouin. Can he challenge Byoudouin to a formal shuffle match betting their number? Would it be even necessary, since they both are part of the G10 who have the right to go places anyway. IMO Mouri and Ochi are much cooler and probably stronger than Kimijima-Tohno, double-wise.

I felt this too I swear. But Ochi/Mouri outside of Ochi's service game would have struggled with Marui/Kite.
It would be Ochi's Mental Pressure that secures the win I reckon.
Kimijima/Tohno seemed so individual in that match, just like two excellent Singles Players just standing on a court beside each other instead of a real pair.

Looking at the list, you can't confirm who is stronger out of Akiba, Taira and Hara.
since the Mutsu twins completely outclassed Washio/Suzuki by sheer stats, we can assume they are just as good individually as lets say Akiba, Taira, Hara and Mitsuya etc.
Although Mitsuya > Yanagi. So we're looking at... Mitsuya, Mutsu, Mutsu, Hakamada all the way above being above Yanagi in Singles?

 

[AlexisMeade]

While I'm sure the ordering is not strictly that of power, I think it's pretty safe to assume that the guy with the #1 badge is indeed the strongest, and if Ryoga is sure he can win I don't see why he didn't challenge Byodouin.

I have no doubt he can challenge Byoudouin. I have doubt if it's formal. Personal match isn't allowed in the camp, right? If Ryoga win, would he get the No. 1 badge? Or do you have to step down to lesser court first, and then challenge the No. 1 badge wearer?

 

[Ninomiya]

To challenge for higher position on the 1st String, you have to give up your own badge.
This makes perfect sense.
If you're the No.15 and challenge for the No.10 spot, you have no real reason to drive yourself to victory since you're already guaranteed to go abroad.
But if you're forced to give up everything to challenge for a higher spot, then you'll have serious motivation to not lose when you play.

So Ryoga should only challenge him if he thinks he can win, otherwise he will lose his spot on the 1st String.

If you notice ONLY the strong MSers Kintaro and Niou gave up badges to get higher ones.
They can afford to do this because of how strong they are.
People like Kenya and Kawamura can't.

But if you're already in the 2nd String you have nothing to lose. Like Ishida Gin. His challenge was a complete joke.
Amongst the most useless challenges I've ever seen. Didn't last a set.

 

[Brandnewkid]

The number 4 is considered bad luck in Japanese culture. Maybe every other previous #4 had something bad happen to them, like a career ending injury. Obviously, the only person who can overcome something like that would be Sengoku.

Calling it now, Sengoku's gonna be the new number 4. Ryoga doesn't care.

 

[Fayte]

Although Mitsuya > Yanagi. So we're looking at... Mitsuya, Mutsu, Mutsu, Hakamada all the way above being above Yanagi in Singles?

I would just avoid trying to tier Mitsuya altogether. Beating Renji does not make him better than Renji. Meaning, just because Mitsuya beat Renji does not mean Hakamada can too. Mitsuya's data tennis is the direct counter to Renji's data tennis, just like Renji's data tennis was a direct counter to Inui's data tennis (Nationals). That was the whole point of those matches. Every HSer was a counter to a MSer (Fuwa/Yukimura, etc). Mitsuya beating Renji still says absolutely nothing about how good he is playing someone he wasn't "created" to play against.

 

[Ninomiya]

I would just avoid trying to tier Mitsuya altogether. Beating Renji does not make him better than Renji. Meaning, just because Mitsuya beat Renji does not mean Hakamada can too. Mitsuya's data tennis is the direct counter to Renji's data tennis, just like Renji's data tennis was a direct counter to Inui's data tennis (Nationals). That was the whole point of those matches. Every HSer was a counter to a MSer (Fuwa/Yukimura, etc). Mitsuya beating Renji still says absolutely nothing about how good he is playing someone he wasn't "created" to play against.

Actually, in the order shown by the Top10, the Singles Players > Doubles Players.
In 11-20, Fuwa was obviously the best out of them at No.11 but something I discussed with Kaoz is where we have Fuwa and ability to play with Closed Eyes makes Vanish irrelevant.
Hakamada and Vanish makes Prediction impossible meaning Data Tennis can't really work unless you are just godly superior.
Mitsuya and Akiba could have similar stats but Data Tennis against anybody with similar stats means the death of the opponent. So Mitsuya > Akiba.

So really, Hakamada should definitely be better than Yanagi.

More importantly Fayte, you are of the belief that Yanagi was better than Inui at Nationals no? So if you say Mitsuya beating Yanagi does not mean he is better than Yanagi, then if you use Yanagi and Inui as an example you must also have changed your belief completely that Yanagi was better than Inui at Nationals.