Character Saddest original G10 member?

[Hardy]

We don't know if Yanagi > Inui at Nationals. I mean, Inui had gathered his Data already before the match ended... but he died before he could even use it. If it had been a singles match, that wouldn't had happened at all.

It's almost the same case as Kaidoh>Kirihara. Yeah, Akaya couldn't beat Kaidoh's combo when he was in BS mode, but he didn't even try to do it while in Devil Mode (he knew that Inui was weaker and just went after him).

 

[Phantron]

There's a recuring problem with Yanagi and Inui. They're described as roughly equal when they're in elementary school and that's still supposed to be the way they are, but 'roughly equal' to Yanagi means Inui is roughly as good as the big 3 of Rikkidai, which means he'd be steamrolling most lesser players which is something he clearly cannot do.

It's probably easier to think of Yanagi as mysteriously becoming weaker whenever Inui is involved. As we see in the game against Kirihara, Yanagi is supposed to be able to defeat people at Kirihara's level rather easily, and it's hard to see Inui pulling that off. I mean he is supposed to be part of the big 3 after all.

 

[Hardy]

There's a recuring problem with Yanagi and Inui. They're described as roughly equal when they're in elementary school and that's still supposed to be the way they are, but 'roughly equal' to Yanagi means Inui is roughly as good as the big 3 of Rikkidai, which means he'd be steamrolling most lesser players which is something he clearly cannot do.

It's probably easier to think of Yanagi as mysteriously becoming weaker whenever Inui is involved. As we see in the game against Kirihara, Yanagi is supposed to be able to defeat people at Kirihara's level rather easily, and it's hard to see Inui pulling that off. I mean he is supposed to be part of the big 3 after all.

I don't see the problem with Inui = Yanagi (at least, almost). before Echizen came, he was Seigaku S3. Yanagi is no way close to Sanada nor Yukimura. Yeah, they are Rikkai big 3, but he's still a lvl lower. I'm sure that Yanagi beats the crap out of Kirihara's just because he has tons of data about Akaya.

---------- Post added at 10:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 PM ----------

Lol, not only you're overrating Yanagi by saying he's "roughly equal to the other 2 monsters", you're underrating Inui a lot.

 

[Phantron]

I don't see the problem with Inui = Yanagi (at least, almost). before Echizen came, he was Seigaku S3. Yanagi is no way close to Sanada nor Yukimura. Yeah, they are Rikkai big 3, but he's still a lvl lower. I'm sure that Yanagi beats the crap out of Kirihara's just because he has tons of data about Akaya.

---------- Post added at 10:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 PM ----------

Lol, not only you're overrating Yanagi by saying he's "roughly equal to the other 2 monsters", you're underrating Inui a lot.

It's the big 3 of Rikkidai not the big 2 plus their sidekick/advisor.

While it seems like there's no way Yanagi is on the same level as the other 2, that's how he's always been introduced. There are various reference about how Tezuka is someone the big 3 needs to be wary of (which also implies the big 3 is considered as the same tier as Tezuka and that includes Yanagi). Mouri says he wants to play the big 3 again. As unbelievable as it'd be to put Yanagi in the same tier as Sanada let alone Yukimura, that's how he's always been introduced as a character. Konomi tried to backpedal on this by saying how Yanagi's true contribution is that he can play doubles with anyone, even if it's the devil, but then he's also not the top doubles player (Marui and Jackal are introduced as the #1 doubles team in Japan) so it's not like he got there by being a doubles specialist.

 

[Hardy]

They are the Rikkai big 3 just because Rikkai was an undefeatbale school for 2 years and they were their 3 best players, it's never said that they share the same tier. Don't talk about Tezuka please, it was said that Tachibana was at his lvl, that every Rikkai was at his lvl, that every National player was at his lvl, etc. People like to talk a lot of crap in PoT.

Konomi tried to backpedal on this by saying how Yanagi's true contribution is that he can play doubles with anyone, even if it's the devil, but then he's also not the top doubles player (Marui and Jackal are introduced as the #1 doubles team in Japan) so it's not like he got there by being a doubles specialist.

Thank you. Champion pair was first introduced as "Rikkai D2" if you remember, and the Tricksters Pair (D1) had to play against the freaking Golden Pair in that final, so at that moment Champion pair wasn't even the best pair in Rikkai. Konomi likes to contradict himself a lot.

You like it or not, Inui is almost as good as Yanagi (or even better).

I dunno why we're discussing this in this thread btw lol

 

[-Ken-]

In the same Kantou match, Renji, whom we learn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Devil Akaya, and probably make Red eyes Akaya run home to his mama, somehow plays in Singles 3 and Ayaka play in Singles 2.

We knows that line-up doesn't really ever present the character true strength. Singles 1 tends to have normally the most powerful player, but even that is not true. Tezuka was stronger than Echizen pre-National Final, yet Echizen always plays in Singles 1 except for their match against Higa. Champion pair being in D2 and Trickster pair being in D1 have no indication of Trickster pair being a stronger team at all. It just means that Rikkai pick to show off their strength by shoving the strongest pair first. Because they're in a hurry to go see Yukimura. They also do the same thing by putting Renji in S3.

I knows there's some Rikkai fanboy saying that Kantou final is a mistake. However, if you're unbiased and look at the long run at this current point until now, it look like Renj/Kirihara really got plot power in their Natioanl Final match.

Kaidoh, in that match, becomes an absolute beast whom stole a game from Renji, the big three, effortlessly. Renji might make a comeback if he can gather more data as the match go on, but then, that's just a might. Even more time go by, they'll probably be more equal.

Moreover, we learn in SPoT that Devil Akaya is a joke compare to Renji. So Kaidoh, whose more rougly equal to Renji is also probably way stronger than Akaya as well. So Akaya escaping and hitting only Inui make complete sense in that regards. We also see in the long run that Inui/Renji are truly roughly equal as stated in their Kantou final, so Devil Akaya even beating Inui in the first place is all just plot power. And even with that power, if the coach wasn't stupid or Inui faint, Devil Kaidoh would probably moped the floor with both Akaya and Renji seeing how much of a boost devil mode give Akaya in his match against Krauser.

 

[Fayte]

Actually, in the order shown by the Top10, the Singles Players > Doubles Players.
In 11-20, Fuwa was obviously the best out of them at No.11 but something I discussed with Kaoz is where we have Fuwa and ability to play with Closed Eyes makes Vanish irrelevant.

Singles players are always better than doubles players. Not just in the top 10 lol. I think it is likely that Fuwa is better than Hakamada.

Hakamada and Vanish makes Prediction impossible meaning Data Tennis can't really work unless you are just godly superior.

Now this, is an assumption. You don't know what would happen if Hakamada played against data tennis. You'll admit that you could be wrong about this, right?

Mitsuya and Akiba could have similar stats but Data Tennis against anybody with similar stats means the death of the opponent. So Mitsuya > Akiba. So really, Hakamada should definitely be better than Yanagi.

Akiba was doing to Irie what Atobe couldn't. If you are under the "assumption" that Mitsuya is better than Akiba, then you are saying Mitsuya is better than Atobe, which means (to you) Inui is now better than Atobe. That logic doesn't work.

More importantly Fayte, you are of the belief that Yanagi was better than Inui at Nationals no? So if you say Mitsuya beating Yanagi does not mean he is better than Yanagi, then if you use Yanagi and Inui as an example you must also have changed your belief completely that Yanagi was better than Inui at Nationals.

One of these days you will understand my argument, Airgrimes lol...Until then, I will just keep saying the same things in different ways until the lightbulb turns on.

Data tennis cannot be judged the same as everything else. You can't paint everything with one brush. When it comes to data tennis, a data player can beat another data player, yet lose to someone that data player won against. During the Kantou finals, Inui said himself that there is really no possible way of winning because Rikkaidai is just flat out better. Renji can beat way more people in tennis than Inui can. Renji would have been better than Fuji (a non-data player). Inui wasn't. Yet, Inui was the only one qualified to play against Renji, because his data tennis has the chance of winning. Data tennis gives you a better shot at winning against data tennis.

I am under the belief that Renji was better than Inui in the Nationals AND Kantou, because I believe it is the same Renji in both. Inui beating Renji only tells us one thing...Inui can beat Renji. That does NOT mean Inui is now at the LEVEL of Renji, and can beat all the people Renji can beat. Inui beating Mitsuya does not mean Inui is at Mitsuya's level. It just means Inui can beat Mitsuya. That's it. That's the way Data tennis works against Data tennis. It's a completely different ball game. Now...if Inui beats a NON-Data tennis person that Renji was unable to beat, that would show Inui has reached a level above Renji. But so far the only reference point we have with that, is Renji destroying "the same" Kirihara (it is very important that Kirihara had no improvement since then) who destroyed Inui. That shows Inui is at a lower level.

 

[Hardy]

But so far the only reference point we have with that, is Renji destroying "the same" Kirihara (it is very important that Kirihara had no improvement since then) who destroyed Inui. That shows Inui is at a lower level.

...Why? As Akaya was his "mentee", Yanagi had tons of data about Kirihara. Inui didn't have it. When he finally had it, he collapsed before using it.

So far, Yanagi didn't beat anyone (without having data before the match), that would beat the crap out of Inui (IIRC) .

 

[Ninomiya]

One of these days you will understand my argument, Airgrimes lol...Until then, I will just keep saying the same things in different ways until the lightbulb turns on.

Fayte... You seem to think every theory you come up with is unquestionable don't you...
Yanagi VS Inui is not as simple as you think it is. At ALL.
I'm of the Inui > Yanagi belief. There are those who believe Yanagi > Inui like you and I'd say its pretty even on other forums too.
So cut the crap since its still remains a fact Yanagi got put to sleep by Mitsuya. He didn't slightly lose, he was crushed.

Whilst Yanagi took out Inui at Nationals, its a fact that Konomi had Inui state the data was complete for a specific reason. I think its because Inui had found a way to compete against Kirihara/Yanagi pair before he died on the court. An assumption.

Why are we assuming Inui cannot beat whoever Yanagi can beat at this stage?
Revolution!Inui didn't get wiped and looked rather comfortable after his win against Mitsuya.
Revolution!Yanagi got hammered.
Just explain to me why you think is the best player out of Inui, Mitsuya and Yanagi.
Since you think Mitsuya isn't better than Yanagi and Inui isn't better than Mitsuya or Yanagi.

I am under the belief that Renji was better than Inui in the Nationals AND Kantou, because I believe it is the same Renji in both. Inui beating Renji only tells us one thing...Inui can beat Renji. That does NOT mean Inui is now at the LEVEL of Renji, and can beat all the people Renji can beat. Inui beating Mitsuya does not mean Inui is at Mitsuya's level. It just means Inui can beat Mitsuya. That's it. That's the way Data tennis works against Data tennis. It's a completely different ball game. Now...if Inui beats a NON-Data tennis person that Renji was unable to beat, that would show Inui has reached a level above Renji. But so far the only reference point we have with that, is Renji destroying "the same" Kirihara (it is very important that Kirihara had no improvement since then) who destroyed Inui. That shows Inui is at a lower level.

*facepalm* 100% Theory.
Fayte. You say Mitsuya beating Yanagi doesn't mean Mitsuya is better than Yanagi just like Yanagi beat Inui at Nationals. Therefore you are saying it doesn't mean Yanagi is better than Inui if you are saying both battles are alike.
Why else would you say they are alike?

So because Mitsuya completely hammered Yanagi it doesn't mean Mitsuya is better.
Inui beat Yanagi and Mitsuya, it doesn't mean he is better than either of them.
Yanagi beat Inui, yet it means he is better than Inui??
Your logic doesn't seem right at all.

Renji can beat way more people in tennis than Inui can. Renji would have been better than Fuji (a non-data player). Inui wasn't. Yet, Inui was the only one qualified to play against Renji, because his data tennis has the chance of winning. Data tennis gives you a better shot at winning against data tennis.

In Bold are your complete assumptions that are just crazy.
Assuming Inui right now is the exact same as he was at Nationals?
That seems unlikely.

Now this, is an assumption. You don't know what would happen if Hakamada played against data tennis. You'll admit that you could be wrong about this, right?

I could be wrong, but
Its the most likely assumption. Tooyama had to produce mass clones and take many swings to hit it back.
This was all even after the Mutsu's VS Oishi/Niou match. Therefore we're looking at roughly 5 games of this or just a really long time since the Oishi mentions how the match will soon end when they are losing to Mutsu's.

Singles players are always better than doubles players. Not just in the top 10 lol. I think it is likely that Fuwa is better than Hakamada.

You've completely misunderstood why I said that.
Date is No.12 yet he has a shot that makes him look better than Akiba who is a Singles player.
Tanegashima is the No.2 yet he is in Doubles. There are many things that are weird about the list which is why I mentioned that.

Akiba was doing to Irie what Atobe couldn't. If you are under the "assumption" that Mitsuya is better than Akiba, then you are saying Mitsuya is better than Atobe, which means (to you) Inui is now better than Atobe. That logic doesn't work.

That's an "assumption" you've made. Its difficult to interpret Irie's efforts against both Atobe and Akiba.
You seem to think the Atobe that got walked over by Irie is the same one as G10!Atobe?
Well, give me a reason why you think the No.20 was better than the No.17?
You seem to be under the "assumption" that Akiba > Mitsuya was the case right?

 

[-Ken-]

I was planning to not read it, but then Hardy and Airgrimes quote some part that look severely lacking in term of argument level, so I read it, and as expect, it's pretty bad.

Singles players are always better than doubles players. Not just in the top 10 lol. I think it is likely that Fuwa is better than Hakamada.

As far as we knows, then, Duke> Shuuji, right? And Akiba>Shuuji, right? You say "always". Fuwa and Hakamada are also both Singles players. Try comparing Hakamada to Ban and Date instead.

Akiba was doing to Irie what Atobe couldn't. If you are under the "assumption" that Mitsuya is better than Akiba, then you are saying Mitsuya is better than Atobe, which means (to you) Inui is now better than Atobe. That logic doesn't work.

Except Irie was admitting to widening his action chop. It means he's acting the entire time. There's no telling if the Irie who was dominating Atobe was stronger or weaker than Irie that was acting and getting dominate by Akiba. If Irie was widening his action chop, it could just means he was trying to act weaker "more". There's nothing that can be draw from that match.

I also found it amusing that you were trying to use the same Atobe versus Atobe that was fighting in G10 match. And you're also using the same Irie too. I remember you saying WoK are different in power now from when they LOST to only 3rd court level, right? Why are you not giving Atobe and Irie the same argument that they might be different level, then?

As for data tennis, it's rather weird that Inui can beat his teacher back in Kantou National, and Renji can't beat his teacher at all. He even try to use the same tech that Inui used back then and fail. Being teacher is hardly excuse that you can't beat it. And well, unless someone quote your response to this, I probably won't be able to see it, so don't bother.

@Airgrimes, the part your underline just shows that, if something make a character that I like better, it's valid. Otherwise, it's not.

 

[Kaoz]

Re: DT
I think it's important to remember that Inui didn't outclass Mitsuya, if we are to trust Yanagi's estimate Inui also only had a 33% chance to win the match. Of course that's better than 0%, but it's with the various players having different amounts of data on each other etc., we went over all this before. I think what we can draw from that match is that Mitsuya was stronger than both Inui and Yanagi and we don't get a clear indication on whether Inui is better than Yanagi, whether it's the other way around or whether they're even.

Re: Akiba vs Irie
When you compare the panels we see from that match with the ones we have from Atobe vs Irie, they are incredibly similar. I'd say that at least indicates that Akiba was a step above pre-AK!Atobe. It's difficult to say for afterwards because of the foot injury though.

 

[-Ken-]

The things about the data match is that Renji have 0 excuse for losing other than sucking. Inui was in exact same spot as him and have 50% chance of winning, far better than 0. We also knows that Data Tennis can gather data mid match, and since Mitsuya is so much better than Yanagi, who is list as adaptation type, I don't see much reason why the master of master of data tennis will not be able to do what Inui and Renji is mention to be able to do better than them.

And I do think it's unfair to say Inui is not better than Mitsuya when he beat him.

On Irie, the panel doesn't really shown much. If we take into consideration that Irie is just all acting, there's not telling if he was playing at 10% against Akiba, then raise it to 30%, and finally 100%, or any other number. He could be playing at 10% against Atobe, and then 50%. You can't really tell, since Irie is just acting the entire time in his match with Akiba that we've seen. The only thing that we can indicate from that match is Irie>Akiba. Irie even say he widen his acting chop during that match. So it doesn't show anything.

 

[Kaoz]

The things about the data match is that Renji have 0 excuse for losing other than sucking. Inui was in exact same spot as him and have 50% chance of winning, far better than 0. We also knows that Data Tennis can gather data mid match, and since Mitsuya is so much better than Yanagi, who is list as adaptation type, I don't see much reason why the master of master of data tennis will not be able to do what Inui and Renji is mention to be able to do better than them.

And I do think it's unfair to say Inui is not better than Mitsuya when he beat him.

1. It was 33.1%, not 50%.
2. Inui is in a completely different spot than Yanagi since he has some data on Mitsuya whereas Mitsuya never even heard of Inui. I don't see how you can not acknowledge this.

Yeah you can gather data mid match, but it also takes time to do so. Maybe Mitsuya did get Inui's data in the end but it was too late for him to catch up completely, we don't know since we haven't actually seen their match. What we do know is that Inui didn't have the advantage.

And it's not unfair to say that at all, 33.1% isn't 0%, and you can win one match even if you'd lose seven out of ten times.

---

I can't be bothered to link all the panels, Irie's facial expressions and Atobe's/Akiba's lines are rather similar up to the point where Irie attempts the smash. Atobe is screwed at that point and Akiba just smashes it back. Personally I can see Akiba > pre-AK!Atobe from that, if you can't then oh well, it's not much of an important point.

 

[-Ken-]

1. 50% was referring to a chance Inui and Renji had against one another.

2. Inui was challenging Renji, where he had data on Renji, and Renji had data on him. I don't see why you wouldn't see this. Renji was the same when he challenge Mitsuya, but suck so much in comparison he fail to grasp victory the same way Inui have.

If you were to assume that data can close the gap between strength, Renji is the one who challenge Mitsuya, and so he should be able to gather all the data he want and he himself got some unknown data of his own from mountain training too. Inui succeed when he tried this and got up to 50% chance of victory when he attempt to challenge his own master. Renji, on the other hand, manage to get a amazing percentage of 0%. Bravo. He was even so amazing that Mitsuya seemingly whoop him without even breaking a single sweat, as seen here.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/new_prince_of_tennis/v04/c061/2.html

If Inui were Mitsuya student the same way that Yanagi is, and challenge him in the same way, I expect Inui to get more than 0% chance of winning, as Inui would probably know a lot more of data on Mitsuya than how he act in that single one match.

We saws in various occasion how having enough data log you a perfect victory. Inui have sealed a lot of victory when he gotten enough data on his opponents, even when he was behind. I don't see why Mitsuya would fail to do the same way and seal Inui when he gotten enough information on Inui, provided there is truly a big gap in their skill like Mitsuya and Renji (0% chance of victory).

Inui even were put into the same spot again during his match against Kirihara and Renji in National Final, and he managed to fix his data at the reasonable point into the game. If he doesn't faint from the damage, he'll probably moped the floor with his opponent. That's my interpretation of what always happen when Inui successfully complete his data, at least. There's really no excuse that Renji fail to fix his data the same way.

Lastly, Yanagi doesn't quite even mention what that 33.1% was. It could be a chance that Inui had at victory. Or it could be Inui chance at surpassing Mitsuya, even.

 

[Fayte]

I think Renji's percentage was more like mine, at 95%....of being misunderstood.

I don't know why people are not understanding my arguments, I am trying to be as clear as possible, yet the responses are sooooo not what I meant. I think Kaoz is the only one who gets it.

So because Mitsuya completely hammered Yanagi it doesn't mean Mitsuya is better.
Inui beat Yanagi and Mitsuya, it doesn't mean he is better than either of them.
Yanagi beat Inui, yet it means he is better than Inui??
Your logic doesn't seem right at all.

Read what I am about to type very carefully, because this will be the last time I try to explain myself. Inui and Renji had a 50% chance of winning against one another within the context of "singles."

When it comes to doubles, the 50% doesn't apply anymore. Inui did not say "any time Renji is on the other side of the court, it will be a 50% chance of victory for me." Inui said when it is just him and Renji playing singles (like their match as kids), it is always 50%. This is why Renji destroyed Inui in doubles. Renji is the better overall doubles player. That's not the question. The question we were all wondering and has been discussed is, "Who is the better singles player?" We already know you cannot judge based upon their singles match because, facing each other, it is at 50%. In order to gauge their singles abilities correctly, you have to look at how they play against other (non-data) players.

That's an "assumption" you've made. Its difficult to interpret Irie's efforts against both Atobe and Akiba.
You seem to think the Atobe that got walked over by Irie is the same one as G10!Atobe?
Well, give me a reason why you think the No.20 was better than the No.17?
You seem to be under the "assumption" that Akiba > Mitsuya was the case right?

It is not difficult to interpret Irie's efforts if you just read the story and not make it into something it isn't. Irie vs Akiba was like what, 3 chapters after the Irie vs Atobe match? The Irie who was toying with Atobe was the exact same Irie toying with Akiba in the exact same way. That. Was. The. Point. Akiba was supposed to be shown to do what Atobe couldn't. Overwhelm troll-mode Irie and force him to be serious. This is simple story progression. Konomi was literally saying to the reader, "Atobe didn't see this, and you have no idea what Irie is capable of." However, by making this statement, Konomi is (at the same time) also saying "Akiba can do what Atobe can't, because these 1st Stringers are kind of a big deal." Akiba is better than the Atobe who played Irie. I have said nothing of G10 Atobe (not like G10 Atobe is that different anyways). My point was, you would say INUI is better than the Atobe who played Irie.

As far as we knows, then, Duke> Shuuji, right? And Akiba>Shuuji, right? You say "always". Fuwa and Hakamada are also both Singles players. Try comparing Hakamada to Ban and Date instead.

No. You just like taking what I say out of context, to make yourself look cool.

 

[-Ken-]

Read what I am about to type very carefully, because this will be the last time I try to explain myself. Inui and Renji had a 50% chance of winning against one another within the context of "singles."

This is just assumption.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/prince_of_tennis/c214/16.html

There's nothing that shows it's just Singles. You can draw assumption that it is, but there's nothing. You can assume that it's Singles, and I'll assume that the 50% comes from their player skill on the court overall. Obviously, there's some other variable in Doubles. If Inui pair up with Horio and Renji pair up with Oni, we knows the result. The pair parter level kinda matter, too (are they golden pair close?).

It is not difficult to interpret Irie's efforts if you just read the story and not make it into something it isn't. Irie vs Akiba was like what, 3 chapters after the Irie vs Atobe match? The Irie who was toying with Atobe was the exact same Irie toying with Akiba in the exact same way. That. Was. The. Point. Akiba was supposed to be shown to do what Atobe couldn't. Overwhelm troll-mode Irie and force him to be serious. This is simple story progression. Konomi was literally saying to the reader, "Atobe didn't see this, and you have no idea what Irie is capable of." However, by making this statement, Konomi is (at the same time) also saying "Akiba can do what Atobe can't, because these 1st Stringers are kind of a big deal." Akiba is better than the Atobe who played Irie. I have said nothing of G10 Atobe (not like G10 Atobe is that different anyways). My point was, you would say INUI is better than the Atobe who played Irie.

The number of chapter doesn't really matter. It's the same amount of day that pass as the day WoK pair play the 3rd court pair and lost, yet you would say it's the same Irie and not the same WoK for some reason. So, why the difference? This is yet another assumption.

No. You just like taking what I say out of context, to make yourself look cool.

No. I'm just saying that statement is wrong. That's all. So here's another assumption that you make.

 

[Kaoz]

2. Inui was challenging Renji, where he had data on Renji, and Renji had data on him. I don't see why you wouldn't see this. Renji was the same when he challenge Mitsuya, but suck so much in comparison he fail to grasp victory the same way Inui have.

Is it really the same?

Yanagi: "'If you want to take me on, I won't hold back', is what you're going to say, right?"
Mitsuya: "No, I'm glad to see you again at this camp... Renji."

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/new_prince_of_tennis/v04/c052/8.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/new_prince_of_tennis/v04/c055/4.html

This is the first time Yanagi has ever been wrong with this kind of thing, so maybe he didn't have Mitsuya's data at all. This could be supported by Yanagi not knowing his chance of winning being 0% until a while after the match started.

Either way, we've seen nothing of the match between Inui and Mitsuya, there's no actual reason to assume Yanagi's estimate was incorrect.

The number of chapter doesn't really matter. It's the same amount of day that pass as the day WoK pair play the 3rd court pair and lost, yet you would say it's the same Irie and not the same WoK for some reason. So, why the difference? This is yet another assumption.

If I would have to guess, it's because we got told that WoK already unlocked or are close to unlocking a power up in Moujuu no Synchro whereas that's not the case for anyone else.

 

[-Ken-]

It's the same because Renji was Inui mentor and Mitsuya was Renji mentor.

If Renji had insufficient data, he should be able to fix it mid match like Inui had. Instead, he have for 0% chance of victory. Mitsuya should not have any updated data on Renji either, since Renji just improved from mountain camp training, and we saw in general how much mountain camp training give upgrade to people in general. Renji also have data tennis since before middle school even start, since he teach it to Inui way back then, so that add even more to amount of data Mitsuya should lack on him.

On the other hand, we knows Mitsuya was one of the all Japan Representative who play aboard. Renji should have plenty of chance to watch tv and get necessary data if he wanted to.

The fact that Renji was unable to fix his data the same way Inui does or fail to beat his mentor the way Inui does makes it hard for me to respect him.

With those information in mind, it just shows Renji is so bad he can't even get a 1% chance at Victory. True, Inui chance is only 33.1%. And true, that's after Inui gotten some data already. But if Inui plays first, I find it hard to believe that Inui will have 0% chance at winning (hell, if Inui had even 1%, that would already make Inui better than Renji) and that his opponent will not even have 1 sweat when he beat him. Sure, it's assumption, but I think it's a rather reasonable assumption, seeing that Inui do manage to beat Mitsuya. I highly doubt he'll be able to do that if he can't make him break a sweat pre data. And while we have no reason to guess Renji estimate is incorrect, if Renji estimate were chance of Inui surpassing Mitsuya, (since we never know what the % is), there's chance that Inui is now flat best data player of all three.

Also, even though we've seen nothing of the match between Inui and Mitsuya, we do knows that Inui was in a much better shape after the match is over. He is holding Renji who got his ass whoop and faint after the match after all.

If we were to assume the current trend of 3 set match, Renji suddenly become a failure as a tennis player. Mitsuya even beat him up without breaking a single sweat. Regardless of data and skill, if you go all out and your skill are close enough, that simply shouldn't happen, at all. Yukimura had more sweat when he 7-1 Sanada.

As for Inui, he was standing up, so he can at least play another game if he have to. Inui also have a lot of stamina because we saw him doing some training, so that's another plus for him in 3 set match environment that we're in now.

---------- Post added at 02:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:42 AM ----------

If I would have to guess, it's because we got told that WoK already unlocked or are close to unlocking a power up in Moujuu no Synchro whereas that's not the case for anyone else.

Where was this mention? I might miss it. If you mean the WoK wanting to get up for a match against G10, it doesn't really matter. Silver pair and Golden pair were getting ready to stand up, too. But we knows golden pair are weaker than no 15-16 of 1st stringer (unless Kikumaru somehow got higher base stat than Niou. But that'll be huge for tier list thread, if you want to go there), and silver pair are just sad compare to golden pair, because they can't even syncho. I don't see a reason to assume they got stronger just because of that. Just because they are standing up doesn't mean they stand a chance. I won't put them above 3rd court level pair until any real confirmation that they can control Beast Syncho.

 

[Phantron]

For data tennis, having data trumps all so if you have two guys to pick against an unknown opponent, you'd always have your best player first because he is the one who can get more data for the next guy to continue off of. Data tennis isn't Saiki. It's rare to see any data tennis quoted as 100%, so even though Yanagi can collect data for himself in mid game, if you're already facing triple match points and you figured you've a 50% chance to win any point from this point forward, well you're still going lose at least 87.5% of the time just because you're facing triple match point.

I got the feeling it was only 50/50 between Yanagi and Inui because like Sanada said, Yanagi has too much personal interest in the game, which implies if Yanagi wasn't fixated on his past history he'd be doing better than 50%. Given Rikkidai's 'boss team' status, it's safe to assume Yanagi ought to outclass Inui in physical stats and he could've pushed that as an advantage. Instead that game was a pure data versus data, which may indeed be 50%.

 

[Fayte]

This is just assumption.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/prince_of_tennis/c214/16.html

There's nothing that shows it's just Singles. You can draw assumption that it is, but there's nothing. You can assume that it's Singles, and I'll assume that the 50% comes from their player skill on the court overall. Obviously, there's some other variable in Doubles.

Yeah, obviously there's some other variables in doubles...you're absolutely right. WHICH IS WHY IT IS NOT 50% ANYMORE. Yeah there is nothing that shows it is just singles...except the fact they were...y'know...playing singles when that was said. Anybody who knows anything about basic rules of literature would know, that is called "context." I am not assuming anything, BY DEFINITION. The context was singles, Inui says they (against one another) are at 50%. Therefore, the 50% applies to singles. That is the context. No assuming necessary. The assumption comes into play when you say "Yeah well, that applies to doubles too." Assumption.

Not only are you failing to prove me wrong based on context, you are failing to prove me wrong by Inui's own argument:
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/prince_of_tennis/c355/11.html

Anybody could see that the other people on the court makes data prediction totally different than a singles match. It isn't 50% in doubles. I'm sorry.

The number of chapter doesn't really matter. It's the same amount of day that pass as the day WoK pair play the 3rd court pair and lost, yet you would say it's the same Irie and not the same WoK for some reason. So, why the difference? This is yet another assumption.

Irie made no improvement since his last match with Atobe. So obviously, if he begins another match shortly after, he is the same Irie. And obviously, if he plays the exact same way against Akiba as he did against Atobe, it is the same Irie. I mean, I can't believe I need to spell this stuff out for you. I don't know what you're talking about when it comes to WoK, but okay. They really have nothing to do with anything right now.