Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

Who will be Sanji's main opponent during the Raid on Onigashima?


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kkck

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Reckless, that's understandable.

They however are reckless or whimsical because they're trying to protect their loved ones.

Sanji's not being reckless, he's simply being selfish because the only thing he's thinking of is women... when they're at war.

The Davy Back fight is a LAW in the world of Pirates. They can't back down. It's something they have to do.

Robbing Skypiea, it's not like they made them impoverished. They just saved the entire nation and defeated Enel. They ended racism and civil war. Brought to tribes together and united the entire Skypiea nation. Their stealing was clearly just an attempt to make them look like real pirates, but the fact is it was literally harmless even in that situation. It's an on-going gag, the SHs try to look like pirates even though they're good people and heroes.

Can't compare that to... disregarding your comrades, endangering them because of lust... during war?

Who said otherwise?

The point is in a war.... he just saw Momonosuke get kidnapped. And his first instinct was to chase after women?

Gag or not, there's no justification when such a stupid code puts others at risk; when has Zoro's alcoholism and Luffy's gluttony been a situation where it was Food vs Comrades or Alcohol vs Comrades, and they chose the former? Not once, they'd always choose comrades over anything, that's the point.

Not at all.

Tell me one time where Luffy had to choose between Meat and saving a nation or his comrades, and chose meat?

There's never been a time where this happened.

There's been gags, but there's never been a time where they let their quirks take precedence over what was truly important when it was with lives at stake.

Not at all.

This is literally the first time where it's been this divisive.

WCI, the Cake was absolutely needed because not quelling her rampage would have destroyed the entire WCI. Granted, he could have even poisoned the cake, but chose not to, he could be somewhat forgiven, but in this arc? There's no silver-lining, it was straight up unjustified perversion.

Sanji can whore all he wants, that's not the problem.

The problem is when a stupid reason is why he's disregarding his comrades and putting everyone in danger.

I'm not even concerned with the battles... this is a war arc... he will likely fight someone formidable. Even if he wins, it won't change the fact he's been a piece of shit.

Caring about Sanji fighting is like having the uncle that rapes, but then pays one's way to school or buys them a nice car. The end result doesn't resolve the main issue nor does it justify forgiveness. Sanji can go on to defeat Kaido, the point is he's still chosen to be selfish at a time where one can't be selfish.

What Sanji's doing is like someone knowing their family member is kidnapped, but decides to go to the massage parlour, the club, the bar and then goes off to a Sauna before going to resolve the issue of the family member being kidnapped. Even if they end up saving their kidnapped family member, the fact they did other unimportant things would suggest they're assholes and don't care much for their family members... that's literally what Sanji is doing here in comparison.

Not necessarily. Just because he can use fire doesn't mean he's strong enough to defeat Perospero. Perospero is a veteran who is capable of using Haki. He defeated 2 SuLong. Strong fighters don't necessarily need their ability to be dangerous, they're still elite fighters without it. Even with flames, Sanji wouldn't be at the advantage because Perospero's ability allows him to create so much candy that flames that Sanji could produce could merely be like flames to a big candle... barely effective.

Unless Sanji's strength is much better than we currently have seen, I doubt he can just beat Perospero. Fire doesn't guarantee victory against Perospero. He's a beast that even Marco acknowledges. He's not going out of his way to fight him, but wanted to even ally because his strength is the real deal.
The davy back fight is a tradition, and one that luffy has to agree to for it to kick in. He could have easily passed, hence why his crewmates told him not to accept. Add to that, there are innumerable situations where the strawhats plainly shoot their own feet.

As for the skypeia bit... Sure, but it was a situation where the strawhats being silly-selfish-assholes hurt them.

This is a war arc... but this IS OP. It's a more serious situation than usual of course but I don't see how it can not be silly. This is a series where the main character's answer to most villains stating facts is "BECAUSE I AM A RUBBER MAN". To me this is ultimately a balancing act. The sillyness balances out with the characters being awesome. Sanji simply hasn't been given the chance to actually balance out his dumber moments. So he only has dumb moments.
 

Hannibal Psyche

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The davy back fight is a tradition, and one that luffy has to agree to for it to kick in. He could have easily passed, hence why his crewmates told him not to accept. Add to that, there are innumerable situations where the strawhats plainly shoot their own feet.


Completely different. Davy Back fights challenges have to be accepted. It's a Pirate thing.

It's like becoming a Rugby or Football player, and not playing be the rules.

Just like there are rules in sport, there are rules in piracy too.

They became Pirates knowing their lives were in danger, but the point is there's a huge difference between disregarding your comrades for women and playing by the rules.

As for the skypeia bit... Sure, but it was a situation where the strawhats being silly-selfish-assholes hurt them.
Absolutely wrong.

They weren't ass-holes by any means, lol.

They just saved a whole bloody nation and ended a war.

It's not like they stole gold and left the country to rot and be destroyed by Enel.

This is a war arc... but this IS OP.
Yeah, pretty sure Marineford was great because of all the silliness.

It's a more serious situation than usual of course but I don't see how it can not be silly. This is a series where the main character's answer to most villains stating facts is "BECAUSE I AM A RUBBER MAN". To me this is ultimately a balancing act. The sillyness balances out with the characters being awesome. Sanji simply hasn't been given the chance to actually balance out his dumber moments. So he only has dumb moments.
Like I said, tell me one moment... where Luffy chose meat when his comrades were in danger?

Never said there are no silly moments, but there's never been a moment where a SH completely disregarded their comrades for absolutely no reason.

Don't think Luffy was out there chasing meat when he knew Ace was in danger. Despite that being the case, even with the silly moments, not of it cut into the fact that his intention to save Ace and protect was the priority.

There's no disgusting moral issues. In this case? There is, you really have no argument, just excuses.

Name one moment where a SH utterly chose some stupid code over their comrade?

Hell, even against Khalifa... we saw him try. He didn't remotely try against Khalifa or even try to create a facade.
 

Hannibal Psyche

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Sanji simply hasn't been given the chance to actually balance out his dumber moments. So he only has dumb moments.
When has a gag had moral ramifications?
 

M3J

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I'd actually love to see Jinbei and Sanji work together to come up with plans. They both know Luffy well and can predict to a degree what he'll do, and Jinbei is good at getting Luffy to listen to plans and reason. The crew isn't as good at planning in the start, but Sanji's ability to think ahead at the end has saved the crew on more than one occasion. Jinbei's great at planning the beginning, so I feel they together could do so much.
 

Hannibal Psyche

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Most actions have moral ramifications, whether good or bad.
Huge difference between doing things with good intentions and ditching your comrade for women.

Luffy might get angry and make the wrong decision (but with good intention)... huge difference from ignoring the fact someone's about to get killed after being kidnapped to find women. There's no justification.

No other strawhat has done this but Sanji.

No SH's action has ever had immoral ramifications whereas Sanji's is pure selfishness and you really can't dispute this.

What excuse is there to be made for leaving a kidnapped comrade to pursue women?
 

Ratrace

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Like I said, tell me one moment... where Luffy chose meat when his comrades were in danger?
I don’t remember but was there ever a time where Luffy had meat(food) in front of him when his comrades were in danger
 

hokageji

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I don’t remember but was there ever a time where Luffy had meat(food) in front of him when his comrades were in danger
dont think there's been one. Probably whiskey peak but there he wasn't aware his nakama were in trouble either... Dont think Luffy has ever done that.
 

King Moe

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Kinda dumb to push Sanji push things to himself over the crew when this is same guy who went to WCI by himself to prevent issues and told in his note to go on without him. Sanji is anything, but selfless and few you are missing the point if your pushing that situation with him unable to fight women means he won't be helpful or wont' do anything. Seems like few you forget what he been like since debut if your conclusion is he is 'useless' and 'selfish' and even ironic to say he is 'gag' character when we know all Strawhats have always been with gags on every one of them even Jimbei is been on gag side recently as well. That's how Oda does even in serious situation, but it's dumb to state they look at each other on not helpful or don't respect them.

Shallowness looks more in comments than actual critique especially the route is similar to Enies Lobby. Sanji can't harm women, but he can harm males and be deciding factor to help things moving, so Idk why everyone think otherwise when it seems more like petty accusations than actual performance on the character.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

None of those are positive. I said what I did with those panels in mind, and Sanji could have avoided Drake and Page One wrecking shops and stalls trying to look for him.
Actually they are positive given it did workout with those moments and he did defeated PO and Drake in the arc and only issue is just him unable harm women at all. Which I got say, it's really stretching from few you to push he is 'bad' when he isn't especially from hannibal and kkck talk which is more biased than factual. You guys are kinda missing the point entirely about his character along with thinking he 'doesn't help' when he been helping throughout the arc all around on many moments and this time he place his trust in others than his own for once when he is unable to face women. Doesn't mean anything compare what your forcing it to be (Not you so much, but Hannibal and Kkck and few others here). If we going by logic on trouble and gags being issue, then everyone on the crew have their own problems on this situation, not Sanji. Nothing so far here been stated as fair critic unless about certain fight issues, but not really on scale on what is being pushed here.

Some of you got learn to have faith, then being 'selective' on moments if this is what your going on over cases that hardly at truth of what Sanji's character is. He also going to face someone stronger in the arc later, so I don't get why you all think him not 'fighting a woman' means he won't face someone strong. Makes me wonder what was everyone's mind when they saw Enies Lobby if that what few you are thinking. Just saying some talk here is more biased than credible if I am being honest.
 

Ramen

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In regards to the poll, Sanji will be lucky to face a commander at this point.
 

King Moe

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In regards to the poll, Sanji will be lucky to face a commander at this point.
Why? The set up is there for him to face one. King or Queen are most likely as Oda does hints with them to where he can go on. Oda doesn't go straight to fights, but zigzags on them, so could go there or he can head up to the Roof to be support like Zoro for Luffy to get Luffy vs Kaido set fight.
 

hokageji

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Why? The set up is there for him to face one. King or Queen are most likely as Oda does hints with them to where he can go on. Oda doesn't go straight to fights, but zigzags on them, so could go there or he can head up to the Roof to be support like Zoro for Luffy to get Luffy vs Kaido set fight.
long time no see Moe kun.... Well Sanji said either or, and that was neither Queen or King right? But yea, the possibility of heading towards Momo and seeing Chopper in danger may pose as a possibility.

I would hate it if Sanji ended up fighting anyone below the flying six at the moment. So if its Queen or King, it will be great.
 

Ramen

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long time no see Moe kun.... Well Sanji said either or, and that was neither Queen or King right? But yea, the possibility of heading towards Momo and seeing Chopper in danger may pose as a possibility.

I would hate it if Sanji ended up fighting anyone below the flying six at the moment. So if its Queen or King, it will be great.
Zoro is fighting Yonkos and Oda turned Sanji into a wimp these last couple chapters. Forget flying 6, it has to be an all star or it's bust.
 

hokageji

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Zoro is fighting Yonkos and Oda turned Sanji into a wimp these last couple chapters. Forget flying 6, it has to be an all star.
I agree... But with Dogstrom telling us that Jack is also in the injured state, i dont want Jack to be the all star he faces. Sure, there is always a possibility of awakening and complete healing with Jack. I mean, we saw the same with Impel Down prisoners. But it won't be a fair fight even in that case...

I would love to see him fight King... calling him a chicken or turkey and all those cooking references will make it an entertaiing battle.. Even with Queen it would be fun,I am not sure how he will reach there and if he ended up going towards Momo and fight Kanjuro, that'll be worse...
 

Ramen

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I agree... But with Dogstrom telling us that Jack is also in the injured state, i dont want Jack to be the all star he faces. Sure, there is always a possibility of awakening and complete healing with Jack. I mean, we saw the same with Impel Down prisoners. But it won't be a fair fight even in that case...
Nah it seems it'll be Jack vs Minks again.

Marco and Sanji vs King and Queen would be awesome.
 

King Moe

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long time no see Moe kun.... Well Sanji said either or, and that was neither Queen or King right? But yea, the possibility of heading towards Momo and seeing Chopper in danger may pose as a possibility.

I would hate it if Sanji ended up fighting anyone below the flying six at the moment. So if its Queen or King, it will be great.
Given Sanji already defeated 2 of T6H with PO and Drake, it doesn't make sense him facing another one again and it's more likely YCs now with King or Queen. I do see him coming into saving someone, but depends. Though feel like could lead to switching or teaming with Macro to King and Queen on it.
Zoro is fighting Yonkos and Oda turned Sanji into a wimp these last couple chapters. Forget flying 6, it has to be an all star or it's bust.
How? Not fighting women has always been that way since pre-timeskip. Don't think you guys should worry that deep when we know route is him facing someone stronger later.

I think Zoro might not really take anyone out on his side if he just support for Luffy. We know he isn't beating Big Mom and Kaido and might be hype tool again. Though think he could have a chance to face YC lvl opponent later if he need someone to fight in 1 vs 1 maybe.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I agree... But with Dogstrom telling us that Jack is also in the injured state, i dont want Jack to be the all star he faces. Sure, there is always a possibility of awakening and complete healing with Jack. I mean, we saw the same with Impel Down prisoners. But it won't be a fair fight even in that case...

I would love to see him fight King... calling him a chicken or turkey and all those cooking references will make it an entertaiing battle.. Even with Queen it would be fun,I am not sure how he will reach there and if he ended up going towards Momo and fight Kanjuro, that'll be worse...
I don't think he face Kanjuro given Scabbards are on their way to Momo and plus it's too personal for them to have Sanji fight to be Kanjuro as doesn't make sense overall why him. I mean Kanjuro is YC lvl like Scabbards, but don't think fight will be with him.
 

Ramen

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How? Not fighting women has always been that way since pre-timeskip. Don't think you guys should worry that deep when we know route is him facing someone stronger later.

I think Zoro might not really take anyone out on his side if he just support for Luffy. We know he isn't beating Big Mom and Kaido and might be hype tool again. Though think he could have a chance to face YC lvl opponent later if he need someone to fight in 1 vs 1 maybe.
Zoro has done more damage to Kaido than anyone else on the rooftop and so far, has been doing the best out of the 5.

But the idea is that I don't care what Zoro does right now, I care about what Sanji does. Sanji is too strong for a flying 6, he deserves an all star or a higher up from BM's crew. He didn't fight a sweet commander during WCI and now, if he fights a F6, it'll be bs.
 

King Moe

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Zoro has done more damage to Kaido than anyone else on the rooftop and so far, has been doing the best out of the 5.

But the idea is that I don't care what Zoro does right now, I care about what Sanji does. Sanji is too strong for a flying 6, he deserves an all star or a higher up from BM's crew. He didn't fight a sweet commander during WCI and now, if he fights a F6, it'll be bs.
Ehh...Kinda pushing it there as Kaido looks fine afterwards and it was Full Zoan. Even Scabbards were doing damage to him, so I wouldn't use that as feat when at this point I feel anyone could push or hurt him in Full Zoan even Luffy before he learn pre-Adv. COA. What he is doing in team fight doesn't mean it he is Yonko lvl if he getting help like asking Law to teleport him to get near him. Apoo is already back up after his Shison Son and isn't weary at all with his fight with Drake, so don't think he doing that major damage unlike Luffy, Kidd, and Law. Killer though is compare to him however since they are there to support their respective captains.

He isn't fighting anyone on BM side since this more on Kaido side and King or Queen looks more likely given hints we get about them with him. He already beaten 2 of T6H being PO and Drake, so don't think Oda thinking that and he going to fight someone YC lvl to show like Zoro in team fight push him in YC lvl territory (Maybe, I have to see what he does in solo fight with someone else).
 

Ramen

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Ehh...Kinda pushing it there as Kaido looks fine afterwards and it was Full Zoan. Even Scabbards were doing damage to him, so I wouldn't use that as feat when at this point I feel anyone could push or hurt him in Full Zoan even Luffy before he learn pre-Adv. COA. What he is doing in team fight doesn't mean it he is Yonko lvl if he getting help like asking Law to teleport him to get near him. Apoo is already back up after his Shison Son and isn't weary at all with his fight with Drake, so don't think he doing that major damage unlike Luffy, Kidd, and Law. Killer though is compare to him however since they are there to support their respective captains.
I'm not pushing anything. Zoro did this:


That's more than the rest or what anyone has actually done. So much so that BM commented on it and Kaido legit said you cut me. If anyone could do that then they would. Scabbards couldn't tickle Kaido and Law, Kidd, and Killer haven't done any damage. They say so themselves.

Zoro in team fight push him in YC lvl territory (Maybe, I have to see what he does in solo fight with someone else).
Zoro isn't fighting a commander. He's with the others fighting the Yonko. He's out of the question.

Either Sanji fights an all-star or an F6.
 

King Moe

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I'm not pushing anything. Zoro did this:


That's more than the rest or what anyone has actually done. So much so that BM commented on it and Kaido legit said you cut me. If anyone could do that then they would. Scabbards couldn't tickle Kaido and Law, Kidd, and Killer haven't done any damage. They say so themselves.



Zoro isn't fighting a commander. He's with the others fighting the Yonko. He's out of the question.

Either Sanji fights an all-star or an F6.
Yeah while Kaido was focus on Luffy and he took his chance to strike at him. Not face to face confrontation. By that logic we should put Franky in this given he attack Big Mom while she wasn't looking at him, so he could harm Kaido the same. What happens in team fight can't be said what will happen in solo fight except maybe Luffy who can be given chance more given he prove himself on fighting by himself.

Yeah, he did, but said it's the sword, not really him. Zoro even comments about Enma on it's abilities, so hard to use it more his feat if Enma has mind of it's own to cut him down. Actually not really as Scabbards did damage to Kaido the same, but got defeated easily one by one. Team fights can't push you on another tier if your getting help for it.

Zoro looks like he be hype tool by Yonkos given we know he isn't defeating neither. He could get push back to facing someone else or just be support only. Have to see. Sanji we know he facing YC lvl opponent given he already proven he beaten T6H already with PO and Drake.
 
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