Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[nik87]

@King Moe
This is what unbiased look at Sanji and Zoro looks like and if you check comments you can see that majority places Zoro above Sanji.
Even tho my view of their power levels aligns a lot with this guys opinion I am disagreeing about Zoro and Sanji taking on calamities in 1vs1 because they are simply not that level yet and there are too many allies to make 1vs1 type of fights.

 

[King Moe]

@King Moe
This is what unbiased look at Sanji and Zoro looks like and if you check comments you can see that majority places Zoro above Sanji.
Even tho my view of their power levels aligns a lot with this guys opinion I am disagreeing about Zoro and Sanji taking on calamities in 1vs1 because they are simply not that level yet and there are too many allies to make 1vs1 type of fights.

Sawyer not the guy with perfection on unbiased. I don't go to him. Those who are more clear are ForneverWorld, Joy Boy, etc..

I also seen others who put Sanji above Zoro or even equals cause guess what? Oda keep putting them as such. He did with a cover, bounties, and now their future opponents being King and Queen.

No matter what others on their thoughts, the one who working in story is Oda and so far all info pointing to him keeping their rivalry and being back and forth with them.

 

[nik87]

@King Moe Never said his opinion is perfect, there is no perfect opinion. I said that his argument in that video is quite unbiased. Did you watch it?
There are people who put Sanji above Zoro? They have no brain.
You do know that Sanji surpassed Zoro's bounty only because Zoro didnt participate in entire Yonko arc? While Sanji got a default increase of 50mil just for being part of SHs during Dressrosa while Zoro didnt get default increase for the same reason after WCI. You conveniently ignore that.
Sawyer didn't lie about anything in this video, just pointed out what anyone with a healthy sense of logic already knew. His assumption that Sanji and Zoro will solo YC in Wano is a point I disagree with.
Edit: Sanji got 100mil increase for Dressrosa without being part of main crew.

 

[King Moe]

@King Moe Never said his opinion is perfect, there is no perfect opinion. I said that his argument in that video is quite unbiased. Did you watch it?
There are people who put Sanji above Zoro? They have no brain.
You do know that Sanji surpassed Zoro's bounty only because Zoro didnt participate in entire Yonko arc? While Sanji got a default increase of 50mil just for being part of SHs during Dressrosa while Zoro didnt get default increase for the same reason after WCI. You conveniently ignore that.
Sawyer didn't lie about anything in this video, just pointed out what anyone with a healthy sense of logic already knew. His assumption that Sanji and Zoro will solo YC in Wano is a point I disagree with.
Edit: Sanji got 100mil increase for Dressrosa without being part of main crew.

Idk about that, but I will give it a watch when I can.

The comments saying differently and others about in other website like Orojackson saying Sanji doing better than Zoro, so it's not that no brain, it's by performance and so far, Zoro fans have envision things going this way from how they stated "Zoro will cut and slice everything in front of him and take names" and yet he lost to Hawkins and we haven't seen him fighting since then. Just him in his travels while being force to smile by some weird community which heavily hinted on pulling one over Zoro from the looks of it.

Really? Then by that logic, Zoro bounty means nothing either since he came in early than Sanji who came in later in joining the crew. He already had reputation, so of course his bounty will be made before him, so his doesn't count anything either.

Didn't say he lies, but sometimes I heard about him not so unbiased from what I know on others.

As for if Sanji and Zoro can take out YC, it can happen as we all thought Luffy will do nothing to Katakuri and something happens, but he proves to able to overcome him in the end. Plus everyone will be training with 2 weeks granted for something and also preparing for the invasion, so it is possible for it for them especially we never seen Sanji and Zoro on full potential more going in that factor. We just have to wait and see what Oda brings to the fight.

 

[nik87]

The comments saying differently and others about in other website like Orojackson saying Sanji doing better than Zoro

I have seen the Sanji squad in OroJackson first hand... Compared to them you actually seem like quite a reasonable guy and I wouldn't describe your logic as reasonable.

Really? Then by that logic, Zoro bounty means nothing either since he came in early than Sanji who came in later in joining the cre. He already had reputation, so of course his bounty will be made before him, so his doesn't count anything either.

They didnt have bounties and both defeated a solid opponent during Alabasta, only Zoro got a bounty. His reputation before was only for being a pirate hunter, that's not something you get a bounty for.

As for if Sanji and Zoro can take out YC, it can happen as we all thought Luffy will do nothing to Katakuri and something happens, but he proves to able to overcome him in the end. Plus everyone will be training with 2 weeks granted for something and also preparing for the invasion, so it is possible for it for them especially we never seen Sanji and Zoro on full potential more going in that factor. We just have to wait and see what Oda brings to the fight.

This is what I disagree with most of the OP community. I dont think that Luffy has defeated Katakuri and that's why I dont consider Luffy as YC1.

 

[King Moe]

I have seen the Sanji squad in OroJackson first hand... Compared to them you actually seem like quite a reasonable guy and I wouldn't describe your logic as reasonable.


They didnt have bounties and both defeated a solid opponent during Alabasta, only Zoro got a bounty. His reputation before was only for being a pirate hunter, that's not something you get a bounty for.


This is what I disagree with most of the OP community. I dont think that Luffy has defeated Katakuri and that's why I dont consider Luffy as YC1.

Oh they can be reasonable, but you must be factual about them. I already seen how they reacted to you and your 'comments'. They ate you alive XD lol. Though serious I do think you can be reason with once you don't put Zoro's fanboyism away and talk to me with respectable debate after all.

That contributed to his bounty as he already did stuff as Pirate Hunter and that build up for his bounty, not just Alabasta. A lot of things contribute to raising someone's bounty as mention in the series especially WG themselves. Sanji was known more as a cook as a restaurant and haven't done anything to the seas to hear until joining Luffy's crew. Again, you can't compare them in that rate of bounties either they cane different points, not same time. So if your using the same reason for Zoro not being in WCI, then same with Sanji coming in later to join. Just saying to you.

I admit, it felt more tie to me especially Katakuri let himself be injured to have a 'manly' duel with him, but did got help by Flambe to damage Luffy more, so feel they are evenly match especially near the end on how Katakuri was acting. Though not changing the process that Oda wants Luffy be the one to take Kaido down. I do see him teaming up with Kidd and Law to help him with that, but still see him getting the final blow as he probably gain something from his training out of it. Plus we also the Rayleigh's talk about Haki as well some are saying he could 'Awaken' his DF to help him out against Kaido more which is also possible. So Luffy has potential to what he can produce same as Sanji and Zoro against the YCs. We just have to wait and see.

 

[nik87]

So if your using the same reason for Zoro not being in WCI, then same with Sanji coming in later to join. Just saying to you.

It's not the same and you just explained it yourself lol. You said Sanji back then wasnt known and thus his bounty wasnt there.
That excuse doesnt work now in NW when both are known. Sanji had entire Yonko arc to raise his bounty, Zoro didnt. So, your argument that their bounties present them as equal is on glass legs.

I admit, it felt more tie to me especially Katakuri let himself be injured to have a 'manly' duel with him,

I am very unpleased about that fight and dont even consider it as a tie but that story I have told several times already and wont bother repeating much considering that Luffy is destined to raise above YC tier anyway...

I already seen how they reacted to you and your 'comments'. They ate you alive XD lol.

LoL. How did they eat me alive? By constant trolling? If anything only their flawed logic has shown like in case of that guy saying that "fire doesnt burn and does flaming damage".
I never saw more made up arguments anywhere than on OroJackson and Sanji squad there cant "eat alive" anyone, all they can do is troll so much that anyone with healthy logic doesnt bother arguing with them for too long.

 

[King Moe]

It's not the same and you just explained it yourself lol. You said Sanji back then wasnt known and thus his bounty wasnt there.
That excuse doesnt work now in NW when both are known. Sanji had entire Yonko arc to raise his bounty, Zoro didnt. So, your argument that their bounties present them as equal is on glass legs.


I am very unpleased about that fight and dont even consider it as a tie but that story I have told several times already and wont bother repeating much considering that Luffy is destined to raise above YC tier anyway...


LoL. How did they eat me alive? By constant trolling? If anything only their flawed logic has shown like in case of that guy saying that "fire doesnt burn and does flaming damage".
I never saw more made up arguments anywhere than on OroJackson and Sanji squad there cant "eat alive" anyone, all they can do is troll so much that anyone with healthy logic doesnt bother arguing with them for too long.

Talking about doing something to gain your reputation for your bounty. Your countering yourself as your saying reason Zoro didn't get his bounty increase despite apart of the crew is because he wasn't apart of it, but should. Same thing with Sanji as he came in later in the crew and Zoro already have done things in arcs without him, so you cant' count Zoro being stronger at all since he had a head start on things. They are equal and you prove my point as you continue to disagree and not see it despite Oda always put it. Everything is pointing them as equals no matter how you denied over the years in OP.

Ehh...Many see it differently from you, so don't know what to say. Again Oda makes it like that when we all thought Luffy wasn't ready, but prove us wrong. So now anything could happen if Sanji and Zoro go after YC as we thinking they don't have what it takes, but Oda could surprise us again.

Nah, you seem to be the one trolling of your comments and they came at you with facts. Also fire can melt and burn things like Perospero's DF when Sanji freed his family. Again not saying they were all right as every fans of characters have someone who is a bit flawed in logic, but pretty sure they were more right in there end. A member from this website saw the debate and told me how you were against them, so Idk what your saying here is 100% true, but again you can be sensible once you push away your Zoro fan pride. Nah, I seen others like Reddit, Twitter, Youtube, etc.. Sanji's fanbase is bigger and more think that than you think. Just saying don't underestimate them.

 

[Takuan]

and yet he lost to Hawkins

Holy fuck xD
You're pretty much the only one who calls this fight a loss for Zoro dude.

 

[King Moe]

Holy fuck xD
You're pretty much the only one who calls this fight a loss for Zoro dude.

Only one? Have you not seen around the other websites? People doubting Zoro over this, not just me. Though I still feel he can beat Orochi if he is a legit strong character. You got to look around more, Takuan on what people been saying between him and Hawkins as they do count it as bad for Zoro in the end.

 

[nik87]

Only one? Have you not seen around the other websites? People doubting Zoro over this, not just me. Though I still feel he can beat Orochi if he is a legit strong character. You got to look around more, Takuan on what people been saying between him and Hawkins as they do count it as bad for Zoro in the end.

All of you have been right, Zoro is weak and he lost to Hawkins. @Takuan You know nothing Jon Snow.

Regarding OJ, I joined there with one purpose, to troll Sanji squad and point out how ridiculous their arguments are. I triggered one of them way too hard and that got me banned.

 

[King Moe]

All of you have been right, Zoro is weak and he lost to Hawkins. @Takuan You know nothing Jon Snow.

Regarding OJ, I joined there with one purpose, to troll Sanji squad and point out how ridiculous their arguments are. I triggered one of them way too hard and that got me banned.

Coming from same people (Zoro fans) who thought Sanji is weak when Vergo hit his leg when in reality of OP, broken bones means nothing when Usopp and Harjudan won their fights and coming from body switching thanks to Law and Nami. Just been fair as of all things to damage Zoro, nails got him. Mihawk would be disappointed if he saw that. Just saying as a swordsman, but lets end things here and see how Sanji and Zoro do in Wano since again both gave potential to do more which I still believe.

Nah, you simply failed on trolling them with bad facts and got trouble for it when you weren't being serious. Regardlless, you shouldn't try trolling others at all. I know you can be respectable person on your end .

 

[nik87]

since again both gave potential to do more which I still believe.

No, no. Sanji has potential to do more, Zoro is just weak, he lost to nails.

Nah, you simply failed on trolling them with bad facts and got trouble for it when you weren't being serious.

Sanji squad is simply special. From few days being present on OJ i noticed that whatever the general opinion is about anything, Sanji squad comes in and claims the total opposite, it's way too hilarious not to troll them.
This is not targetting Sanji fans with healthy logic but rather the blind Sanji worshippers with 0 common sense.

 

[M3J]

This argument is annoying af, you guys need to stop bringing up other people's opinions, reviews, videos, or whatever shit. People suck, no need to share more BS views. Argue with your own opinions. Doesn't matter how popular Sanji or Zoro is or what others think.


Also, whether you think running away is a loss or not, nowhere did we ever see Zoro be inferior to Hawkins or Hawkins inferior to Zoro. That fight was undecided because while Hawkins had to get Luffy and Zoro (and he himself admitted fighting with integrity was out of the question here), Luffy and Zoro had to get away before they were discovered. This is no way to determine anyone's power. That's like saying Sanji is inferior just because Khalifa beat him; she beat him because he doesn't hurt women whether or not they're enemies. Can we not use this as an argument against Zoro?

 

[Takuan]

Only one? Have you not seen around the other websites? People doubting Zoro over this, not just me. Though I still feel he can beat Orochi if he is a legit strong character. You got to look around more, Takuan on what people been saying between him and Hawkins as they do count it as bad for Zoro in the end.

Alright that's fair, i haven't been in other websites to confirm it. People might be thinking the same as you, i shouldn't have said that.

Regardless, saying Zoro lost against Hawkins is so far from the truth i can't even put an adjective over it without being mean. When Zoro got away with scratches and three sheds of blood spilled (compared to what his pre-timeskip fights looked like, we can't say he tanked massive damage there), Hawkins on the other hand sacrificed how many of his subbordinates? 2, maybe 3 i don't recall. I swear, everytime Hawkins appear on screen, more of his men die and he achieves close to nothing in return. Call that a win for Hawkins or loss for Zoro, i'll disagree any day. No matter what people on other websites say.9

Even if we disregard Hawkins' sacrifice of his own subbordinates, all he managed to do was scratch Zoro at the expense of that massive doll of his, which Zoro one shotted the moment he sent a named slash. That's all we got from the fight. Loss for Zoro really? You gotta be either trolling or delusional to think so.

 

[King Moe]

This argument is annoying af, you guys need to stop bringing up other people's opinions, reviews, videos, or whatever shit. People suck, no need to share more BS views. Argue with your own opinions. Doesn't matter how popular Sanji or Zoro is or what others think.


Also, whether you think running away is a loss or not, nowhere did we ever see Zoro be inferior to Hawkins or Hawkins inferior to Zoro. That fight was undecided because while Hawkins had to get Luffy and Zoro (and he himself admitted fighting with integrity was out of the question here), Luffy and Zoro had to get away before they were discovered. This is no way to determine anyone's power. That's like saying Sanji is inferior just because Khalifa beat him; she beat him because he doesn't hurt women whether or not they're enemies. Can we not use this as an argument against Zoro?

I agree with you, M3J, but be sure to use it against fans of Zoro when they always being more on the attack when it's Sanji-related cause we both know how aggressive they can be with fights and such.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 26, 2019, Original Post Date: Jan 26, 2019 ---

Alright that's fair, i haven't been in other websites to confirm it. People might be thinking the same as you, i shouldn't have said that.

Regardless, saying Zoro lost against Hawkins is so far from the truth i can't even put an adjective over it without being mean. When Zoro got away with scratches and three sheds of blood spilled (compared to what his pre-timeskip fights looked like, we can't say he tanked massive damage there), Hawkins on the other hand sacrificed how many of his subbordinates? 2, maybe 3 i don't recall. I swear, everytime Hawkins appear on screen, more of his men die and he achieves close to nothing in return. Call that a win for Hawkins or loss for Zoro, i'll disagree any day. No matter what people on other websites say.9

Even if we disregard Hawkins' sacrifice of his own subbordinates, all he managed to do was scratch Zoro at the expense of that massive doll of his, which Zoro one shotted the moment he sent a named slash. That's all we got from the fight. Loss for Zoro really? You gotta be either trolling or delusional to think so.

Hawkins doesn't care who he sacrifice to get his objectives. He even use one of his cards to cut down his own men if you remember the chapter. Plus even with his massive doll, that wasn't his best attack. At the end of the day, Zoro is the one leaving bloody and Hawkins is fine. Fine to say it ends in a draw, but to say it's a win for Zoro is quite ignorant (Not saying you are, but to those I seen saying it's a win for him) when Hawkins can create more lives and regenerate his straws. From the beginning, Hawkins was a bad matchup for Zoro and it make sense. There is no sense of accepting a character's faults when he is on a disadvantage instead of always on advantage after all.

Your free to think how the fight is, but I wouldn't go around and say "Zoro got the win in that exchange" after how he look. I seen those who said that and get countered harshly. At best it better to say tied or something similar if you don't want to feel like a troll or delusional of what you said on your end. Just saying as fandom on majority side don't see it as a 'positive' on Zoro's end.

 

[nik87]

Hawkins was a bad matchup for Zoro and it make sense.

How is Hawkins bad match-up for Zoro?

 

[hokageji]

Hawkins is actually an excellent matchup for anyone. How do you attack a person when any attack gets transferred to someone else? Besides, we saw Hawkins scratch Zoro already, what if he tagged Zoro with a voodoo doll?

Imagine Zoro's attack on Hawkins being transferred to Zoro already. It will be cool to see Zoro fight and overcome that.

 

[Takuan]

Hawkins doesn't care who he sacrifice to get his objectives. He even use one of his cards to cut down his own men if you remember the chapter.

I agree with that. In that fight though, what did he accomplish? Nothing. He lost two subbordinates, and that resulted in nothing at all. Basically he lost 2 lives, that's all he managed to do there. Did he win in any way? Not in my book.

Plus even with his massive doll, that wasn't his best attack. At the end of the day, Zoro is the one leaving bloody and Hawkins is fine.

He's fine because the damage Zoro dealt was redirected to his dolls; in the end, despite being physically fine himself, he lost 2 lives. If we assume some little amount of Zoro blood weighs more than 2 human lives, then i guess it's a loss for Zoro...
Nah dude. Proportionnally speaking, Hawkins lost way more than Zoro did. We don't know how many lives he can get with his ability, but having lost 2 in mere seconds is a pretty bad showing for only 3 sheds of blood in exchange.

Fine to say it ends in a draw, but to say it's a win for Zoro is quite ignorant (Not saying you are, but to those I seen saying it's a win for him) when Hawkins can create more lives and regenerate his straws.

Isn't that the other way around? It's not about the fight being a win for Zoro, you straight up said it was a loss for Zoro. Which it clearly is not, at all. At best we call it a draw; a loss for Zoro? No.
He can indeed create more lives and regenerate his straws, after the fight though, just like Zoro can heal injuries. That doesn't indicate much.

From the beginning, Hawkins was a bad matchup for Zoro and it make sense. There is no sense of accepting a character's faults when he is on a disadvantage instead of always on advantage after all.

Ehhh, i think Hawkins would be a bad matchup for anyone due to his DF. Though to me, tricky DF or not, he feels pretty mediocre so far; i'm waiting for better feats.

Your free to think how the fight is, but I wouldn't go around and say "Zoro got the win in that exchange" after how he look. I seen those who said that and get countered harshly. At best it better to say tied or something similar if you don't want to feel like a troll or delusional of what you said on your end. Just saying as fandom on majority side don't see it as a 'positive' on Zoro's end.

Again, it's not about saying it's a win for Zoro, YOU said it was a LOSS for Zoro. I clearly disagree with that, hence why i quoted.
So you want to debate on the fandom's opinion as a majority; you're saying the majority doesn't see it as a positive on Zoro's end. It's true that for the first time during post-timeskip, he got injured by someone. I can see why that's a negative compared to his previous showings. However, what does the majority of the fandom (of which you're the representative) think about Hawkins' showings? Is it impressive to have lost 2 lives, sacrificing his own people yet again, to accomplish nothing aside from barely scratching his opponent?

I don't know man. A tie is fine to accept, but there's no way Zoro lost this fight in my eyes. More like, there's no way Hawkins won it.

By the way, that's turning into a Zoro debate when we're in the Sanji thread lol... Feels like it happens quite a lot, can't speaking of one without bringing the other to the table. Though i'll say that i'm not a defender of Zoro in that particular Hawkins vs Zoro fight; it's more about Hawkins being a massive disappointment in my eyes, rather than Zoro being a god or something. Just to clarify on my views about this subject.

 

[King Moe]

I agree with that. In that fight though, what did he accomplish? Nothing. He lost two subbordinates, and that resulted in nothing at all. Basically he lost 2 lives, that's all he managed to do there. Did he win in any way? Not in my book.


He's fine because the damage Zoro dealt was redirected to his dolls; in the end, despite being physically fine himself, he lost 2 lives. If we assume some little amount of Zoro blood weighs more than 2 human lives, then i guess it's a loss for Zoro...
Nah dude. Proportionnally speaking, Hawkins lost way more than Zoro did. We don't know how many lives he can get with his ability, but having lost 2 in mere seconds is a pretty bad showing for only 3 sheds of blood in exchange.


Isn't that the other way around? It's not about the fight being a win for Zoro, you straight up said it was a loss for Zoro. Which it clearly is not, at all. At best we call it a draw; a loss for Zoro? No.
He can indeed create more lives and regenerate his straws, after the fight though, just like Zoro can heal injuries. That doesn't indicate much.


Ehhh, i think Hawkins would be a bad matchup for anyone due to his DF. Though to me, tricky DF or not, he feels pretty mediocre so far; i'm waiting for better feats.


Again, it's not about saying it's a win for Zoro, YOU said it was a LOSS for Zoro. I clearly disagree with that, hence why i quoted.
So you want to debate on the fandom's opinion as a majority; you're saying the majority doesn't see it as a positive on Zoro's end. It's true that for the first time during post-timeskip, he got injured by someone. I can see why that's a negative compared to his previous showings. However, what does the majority of the fandom (of which you're the representative) think about Hawkins' showings? Is it impressive to have lost 2 lives, sacrificing his own people yet again, to accomplish nothing aside from barely scratching his opponent?

I don't know man. A tie is fine to accept, but there's no way Zoro lost this fight in my eyes. More like, there's no way Hawkins won it.

By the way, that's turning into a Zoro debate when we're in the Sanji thread lol... Feels like it happens quite a lot, can't speaking of one without bringing the other to the table. Though i'll say that i'm not a defender of Zoro in that particular Hawkins vs Zoro fight; it's more about Hawkins being a massive disappointment in my eyes, rather than Zoro being a god or something. Just to clarify on my views about this subject.

Still gave chase and didn't stop what he was doing until by cards, not because he was inadequate, so I don't think you can say he was really focus more on mission compare to his card predicting as that how he always roles.

Lives he can get more of and 2 men is his big lost? Nah, Hawkins can get majority of his crew and Beast Pirates for lives and it's not shown he felt bad on losing them one bit, so again I don't see it lost for him as for Zoro on his side. If it was really that bad, why continue on when he soon face off with Law and took another of his lives. He doesn't care and see it as no lost factor as he can always get more and make more. So to say it's more Zoro's favor is still not right attitude.

I said for others, not me. I still think of it as a lost, but others are free to think on what they think. Though just saying those who said it's in good favors of Zoro get countered harshly since that chapter, so I am just letting you know in case you try spreading in that fashion on other websites as not many would think your way of thinking.

Law can get around him due to his own DF can countered his, Sanji can do so as well since his fire can burn the straws and damage faster, and Usopp might have a chance with him as well due to having explosions and fire ammo in hand too, and so on. Don't think he give everyone a problem as there can be others to counter him, but Zoro with him cutting him down doesn't see right idea especially isn't there a saying it's better to burn straws than cut them? Plus he has bad history dealing with tricky opponents for awhile, so again not best person he can fight in the bigger perspective.

Actually second time he bleed. He was injured before by Fujitora which is why many also don't think he was Admiral level much and plus Fujitora show more in fights with Sabo and Luffy. Though back onto the debate at hand, again I feel it's a lost, but others are free to think on it. Though from fandom's point it is not in good spirits for Zoro in the end. As for Hawkins showing, I haven't seen bad stuff about him doing poorly, mostly they underestimate him and see Hawkins stronger than they realize after 2 years timeskip. There are few who said he 'lost' out of it, but again got countered on their end on the thoughts.

Didn't know your felt that strongly on Hawkins' performance, but doubt it be the last we seen in fight though. Also I agree with how you feel though and glad we have a reasonable talk, so lets end this now since it's getting off topic like you said since this is Sanji's thread after all.