Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[Shasha23]

There's honestly too many people on both sides of this confrontation to fully speculate on who Sanji could fight. We got the 9 Red Scabbards, Law and his crew, Drake, Kidd, and Marco coming in sooner or later. The Scabbards and Marco alone could take on Commanders themselves. Sanji could get stuck facing off against some Big Mom Pirates again, which would suck.

That being said, it is likely that the opponent will be stronger than a Headliner, but that isn't really saying much. as there is a large gap between someone like Drake and a Yonkou Commander. I'd love for him to get a shot at a Commander or someone on that level and win though.

Marco is not coming.

 

[HereNThere]

Oh yeah, he's waiting on Weevil. Oh well, still got a decent amount of fighters this arc.

 

[King Moe]

There's honestly too many people on both sides of this confrontation to fully speculate on who Sanji could fight. We got the 9 Red Scabbards, Law and his crew, Drake, Kidd, and Marco coming in sooner or later. The Scabbards and Marco alone could take on Commanders themselves. Sanji could get stuck facing off against some Big Mom Pirates again, which would suck.

That being said, it is likely that the opponent will be stronger than a Headliner, but that isn't really saying much. as there is a large gap between someone like Drake and a Yonkou Commander. I'd love for him to get a shot at a Commander or someone on that level and win though.

Don't think so and Macro isn't coming. Idk why a few hang onto that he still coming when he can't due to Weevil.

Sanji always close to who Luffy face as well can't lose out on Zoro in he is facing. Best bet he is going after a YC being Queen or King. If he easily beaten Page One early and can fight off Drake without RS who are both T6H/Numbers, his next serious opponent would be stronger than them with are only YCs left from where I am looking at.

 

[HereNThere]

Sanji always close to who Luffy face as well can't lose out on Zoro in he is facing. Best bet he is going after a YC being Queen or King. If he easily beaten Page One early and can fight off Drake without RS who are both T6H/Numbers, his next serious opponent would be stronger than them with are only YCs left from where I am looking at.

Like I said, it'd be nice, but it's hard to gauge. Oda's ditched the pre time skip formula for a bit now, so my expectations are low. I'm expecting another Dressrosa situation.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Imo this arc Oda has done something both unique and lazy with Zoro and Sanji and more so with Sanji.

What I mean is that right now Sanji has the RS and seeing how this all is getting set up I'm now 80% confident this suit will play a key role in Sanji gaining a win against someone YC level strong.

Personally don't mind this development, just saying it's a bit lazy on Oda's part. But what can he do, they had so little time before the big battle and needed to get stronger asap.

He mostly focused on Luffy so far, who is actually legitimately training. And less so on Zoro, who is not exactly training but more like getting used to his new blade. As for Enma pretty sure it's a major upgrade for Zoro, not simply a new tool but a better tool in this particular case.

The qualities of Enma definitely give Zoro a significant advantage as compared to Shusui. The reason it's less of a lazy writing is that Zoro is one of the very very very very few people who could potentially tame the problem child that is Enma. And one of the reasons is his long lasting relationship with Wado Ichimonji.

As for Sanji, I have speculated that he might as well have a similar genome to that of his siblings except there would be all of the mutations conflicting with each other which allegedly lead to them being inactive this whole time, something along these lines. And Sanji battling Queen('s viruses) could potentially give Sanji the necessary stress for these genetic enhancements to take place.

I'm leaning towards this way of thinking for a couple of reasons. Overall we see that Judge and his offsprings all use a very similar fighting style. Sanji is a bit of an exception because he was taught not to use hands in battle, but aside from that they all fly, move swiftly, use kicks and elemental or other enhancements on their limbs. Fire for Sanji, electricity for Niji and Judge, explosions for Ichiji...

Sanji even got this surprised expression on his face when he first saw his dad's electrified foot. It could be just him fearing that the attack will injure him... But it felt like he saw similarities in their respective fighting styles.

I can easily see Sanji utilizing electricity, fire and explosions with his current fighting style. One leg on fire and the other is covered with electricity.

But of course I could be just reaching, lol. After all it was part of this whole narrative that Sanji was born human and not super human thanks to his mom.

And yes King Moe, I know that Sanji is getting stronger even without his suit, and his haki must be getting stronger too. That's not what I'm arguing against or anything. Just wanted to say that just in case...

 

[Fox666]

Sanji's mother wanted him to be born with emotions, it wouldn't matter if he was to unlock his physical potential. But personlly I don't think the genetic enhancements are fitting to Sanji's character.

 

[King Moe]

Like I said, it'd be nice, but it's hard to gauge. Oda's ditched the pre time skip formula for a bit now, so my expectations are low. I'm expecting another Dressrosa situation.

I get you, but he didn't ditch the dynamic. They are still going to do stuff and gaps arent that far off from each other especially Sanji and Zoro. We have to see at Fire Festival.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 13, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 13, 2019 ---

Sanji's mother wanted him to be born with emotions, it wouldn't matter if he was to unlock his physical potential. But personlly I don't think the genetic enhancements are fitting to Sanji's character.

It can still happen if he unlocks them, his personality doesn't change. She just didn't want him be emotionless is all. Think it heading the route of unlocking his genes higher lvls and be the greatest of his siblings and 'experiments' too.

 

[HereNThere]

I personally wouldn't care for the genome develop since, as stated, it would take away the narrative that Sanji was the only human among the family.

I get you, but he didn't ditch the dynamic. They are still going to do stuff and gaps arent that far off from each other especially Sanji and Zoro.

That I do agree with. Oda keeping their rivalry up is a good sign.

 

[afromarco005]

Imo this arc Oda has done something both unique and lazy with Zoro and Sanji and more so with Sanji.

As for Sanji, I have speculated that he might as well have a similar genome to that of his siblings except there would be all of the mutations conflicting with each other which allegedly lead to them being inactive this whole time, something along these lines. And Sanji battling Queen('s viruses) could potentially give Sanji the necessary stress for these genetic enhancements to take place.

I love this theory of yours it makes perfect sense!

On the Sanji opponent matter, I think that on a story telling perspective, having sanji fighting a YC1 or2 right now is too soon and makes little sense regarding his evolution.

If as I expect, we get an Elbaf arc and a final mega arc then Sanji winning against a YC1 right now makes no sense unless the matchup is perfect for him.
If he beats King right now and following shounen logic of the heroes always fighting stronger opponents each arc then who will he face in the remaining arcs? Admirals ? Yonko? This doesn't make sense.

Another problem I have is with the raidsuit, Sanji hasn't mastered it at all and having him beating ennemies that pushed luffy to extreme diff fights just last arc the moment he puts on the suit would be poor writing imo.
And if we take the example of his siblings yes the raidsuit gives them a boost in power but it doesn't make them jump from fodder tier to beast tier.

Lastly we saw Sanji perform decently against Daifuku and oven but he felt like he wasnt exactly at their level just yet, with the suit I think that he can defeat this tier of ennemies with a bit of difficulty.

However, if we get a war similar to marineford which looked more like a battle royale, then Sanji (and the others) wont be fighting anyone specific and all of our speculations go down the drain.

 

[King Moe]

I love this theory of yours it makes perfect sense!

On the Sanji opponent matter, I think that on a story telling perspective, having sanji fighting a YC1 or2 right now is too soon and makes little sense regarding his evolution.

If as I expect, we get an Elbaf arc and a final mega arc then Sanji winning against a YC1 right now makes no sense unless the matchup is perfect for him.
If he beats King right now and following shounen logic of the heroes always fighting stronger opponents each arc then who will he face in the remaining arcs? Admirals ? Yonko? This doesn't make sense.

Another problem I have is with the raidsuit, Sanji hasn't mastered it at all and having him beating ennemies that pushed luffy to extreme diff fights just last arc the moment he puts on the suit would be poor writing imo.
And if we take the example of his siblings yes the raidsuit gives them a boost in power but it doesn't make them jump from fodder tier to beast tier.

Lastly we saw Sanji perform decently against Daifuku and oven but he felt like he wasnt exactly at their level just yet, with the suit I think that he can defeat this tier of ennemies with a bit of difficulty.

However, if we get a war similar to marineford which looked more like a battle royale, then Sanji (and the others) wont be fighting anyone specific and all of our speculations go down the drain.

Not really. Luffy is facing an Yonko and moment that was decided, we had a clue who Sanji's and Zoro's opponents would be with either King or Queen especially both enemies has issues and rivalry with each other. Knowing inserts more about it especially those are usually the opponents they face like that with Mr. 1 and Mr. 2, Jabra and Kaku, etc.. They can't afford to fall behind, so great point right here.

Though Zoro is going after Orochi, so makes me wonder who take other YC in this. Probably either Kidd or Law as they need feats as well being Luffy's major rivals, but still Sanji is being bread for YC lvl encounter looking at his progress.

RS only is more so disguise and espionage with uses of durability at best, but unlike his siblings, it doesn't give him elemental or power enhancements. His attack and speed are still his own as shown in fights how he fight with Daifuku and Drake and beating Oven and Page One. He is stronger than he looks and fact is he never went all out in a fight from all of them. He has a lot to show and few missed the point on that and purpose of WCI. He is not done as fighter or stop getting stronger, but actually the opposite as Oda prepping him up to new heights.

I wouldn't be so sure, can still get to designated enemies somehow as Oda will know how to make it work even in a war. Have faith and you will see.

 

[then00b]

The raid suit has accelerators in its heels, and flotation devices on the soles, the latter isn't exactly a huge thing since he can sky walk I guess. But it is a powerup suit for Sanji.

 

[HereNThere]

On the Sanji opponent matter, I think that on a story telling perspective, having sanji fighting a YC1 or2 right now is too soon and makes little sense regarding his evolution.

If as I expect, we get an Elbaf arc and a final mega arc then Sanji winning against a YC1 right now makes no sense unless the matchup is perfect for him.
If he beats King right now and following shounen logic of the heroes always fighting stronger opponents each arc then who will he face in the remaining arcs? Admirals ? Yonko? This doesn't make sense.

I don't think we have many arcs left to be honest. Given the way things are progressing, I feel like we are a hop and a skip away from the endgame and it'll fully kick off with the end of Wano.

Sanji fighting a Yonkou Commander at this point would just put him in a position where he would be able to contend with other high tier threats during the final war, especially if it's a battle royale situation like Marineford. He will have reached the Summit and would be finally capable of hanging around people of that caliber and fight them on even ground, even if they are an Admiral.

As for the Raid Suit, it's highly likely his mastery with the suit is going to be off screened, just like most of his improvements have been in this series. Even with the suit, it doesn't mean he'll have an easy time fighting. He'll still be a step behind Luffy, who's fighting Yonkou now.

Speaking of which, here's how I see the potential ways the RS will be used in the story...

1. It'll be played straight. He'll have it be redesigned as a fashionable suit of some sort and it'll increase his defense and speed as well as give the added bonus of invisibility. A lot of the stuff the RS does, he can already do, so he may find a way to somehow use Diable Jambe to boost the speed even further. Or he'll just use Diable Jambe to mimic the acceleration or something. I don't know.

2. It'll be played as a joke. Having finally gained the power to peep while invisible, Sanji will attempt to use the RS in a fight, only for it to be destroyed. This'll bring us back around to Sanji's flaming rage trait and we'll get more variants of Hell's Memories type abilities.

 

[afromarco005]

Not really. Luffy is facing an Yonko and moment that was decided, we had a clue who Sanji's and Zoro's opponents would be with either King or Queen especially both enemies has issues and rivalry with each other. Knowing inserts more about it especially those are usually the opponents they face like that with Mr. 1 and Mr. 2, Jabra and Kaku, etc.. They can't afford to fall behind, so great point right here.

I see you using this argument a lot but King and Queen bickering once does NOT prove that they will be Zoro and Sanji's opponent.

Though Zoro is going after Orochi, so makes me wonder who take other YC in this. Probably either Kidd or Law as they need feats as well being Luffy's major rivals, but still Sanji is being bread for YC lvl encounter looking at his progress.

What evidence do you have for this, you keep pushing this Zoro vs Orochi theory as if it was a fact? The way I see it Orochi will be like Diamante and will lose to someone who has a real grudge against him (scabbard/Momo/Hyori) or will be betrayed by his most trusted followers or killed by the enraged citizen when they learn the truth.

RS only is more so disguise and espionage with uses of durability at best, but unlike his siblings, it doesn't give him elemental or power enhancements. His attack and speed are still his own as shown in fights how he fight with Daifuku and Drake and beating Oven and Page One. He is stronger than he looks and fact is he never went all out in a fight from all of them. He has a lot to show and few missed the point on that and purpose of WCI. He is not done as fighter or stop getting stronger, but actually the opposite as Oda prepping him up to new heights.

Why must you always say stuff that you know isn't true to make a character you like look good? Sanji did never beat Oven, he got one hit in that's it there was never a true fight.
You need to be fair if you consider this a win for sanji, then you must count the time that Daifuku/Big mom angry fighters etc sent Sanji flying as a loss too.

I wouldn't be so sure, can still get to designated enemies somehow as Oda will know how to make it work even in a war. Have faith and you will see.

Fair enough we shall see. I feel like fights in a war are prone to being interrupted by allies of both camps and would make a traditional one on one pretty difficult as seen at marineford.

 

[King Moe]

The raid suit has accelerators in its heels, and flotation devices on the soles, the latter isn't exactly a huge thing since he can sky walk I guess. But it is a powerup suit for Sanji.

It's his attack and speed that make it work for him in the long run while it helps mostly durability at best.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 21, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 21, 2019 ---

I see you using this argument a lot but King and Queen bickering once does NOT prove that they will be Zoro and Sanji's opponent.


What evidence do you have for this, you keep pushing this Zoro vs Orochi theory as if it was a fact? The way I see it Orochi will be like Diamante and will lose to someone who has a real grudge against him (scabbard/Momo/Hyori) or will be betrayed by his most trusted followers or killed by the enraged citizen when they learn the truth.



Why must you always say stuff that you know isn't true to make a character you like look good? Sanji did never beat Oven, he got one hit in that's it there was never a true fight.
You need to be fair if you consider this a win for sanji, then you must count the time that Daifuku/Big mom angry fighters etc sent Sanji flying as a loss too.



Fair enough we shall see. I feel like fights in a war are prone to being interrupted by allies of both camps and would make a traditional one on one pretty difficult as seen at marineford.

It kinda does. Look at Mr. 1 and Mr. 2 and Jabra and Kaku. They are same and look what happened... Sanji and Zoro became their opponents. It's a theme to how Oda put out who they face as for these type of arcs, always the enemies who are rivals on their own side as well. I don't get why not to use it as Oda done it before. We shouldn't put it past him.

Zoro saw Yasu get killed and vows vengeance onto him. Not saying Momo and Hiyori won't try, but Zoro be majority his opponent while thet support him. Also you do know like with Rebecca, she didn't take out Diamante, it was Kyros. So going by that, Zoro can take out Orochi himself too while Momo and Hiyori are on the sidelines. Don't see the issue about it.

Dude why do you always denied something positive when your hypocrite when it's done to other characters you like Zoro that you praise for 'hurting' Hawkins when he didn't at all along with denying he was down by Killer? Sanji show an glimpse of his power and took out Oven. While he wasn't defeated, it shows if they fought, it be more his advantage and power to win.

What loss? Sanji was never sent flying or defeated by them. He able to hold hus own with Daifuku especially in second encounter and are you seriously using Yonko Group attacking him while he was protecting Luffy in his arms? Are you serious -.-?...Do You know when there is a time to fight and when there isn't. You expect him dropped his already injured captain on the ground to fight off Yonko Group? That's not a loss. He is going to save and escape with Luffy while protecting him. Please get your facts straights instead of lying out to make him look bad.

You never know as Oda can make it one on one somehow like for example I can see Sanji vs King fighting in a sky fight as only them can fly and thus can battle it out with no interference. There are ways to take advantage and Oda knows how.

 

[TitaniumOxide]

Hmm idk if I have ever posted here before. But you guys discussing, bickering, and down right breaking down every aspect that is Sanji makes me think about his future battles.

With whom he will fight, I cannot say but if Sanji the opponent is strong enough he will don the raid suit like when he fought PO. The thing is, there will be opponents stronger. I love seeing Zoro fight but if Sanji fights a baddie and after he wins his raidsuit breaks...that's some rare irreplaceable shit. It's not a sword lol.

But what I actually want to get at is if the suit breaks and someone like Usopp or Franky fixes and subsequently upgrades it, that will piss me off. I hope Sanji's future powerups is not just suit upgrade. I mean it isn't a bad idea. That's why Tony Stark kept enhancing his fleet of armors but it is because he himself is a just a normal albiet smart human. If Sanji gets stronger in the future it should be a combination of his suit and his natural abilities. If Franky can mod the suit to let Hells memories or Diable Jambe attacks power the suit even further that'd be great.

 

[Brandish μ]

I'm not a big fan of the suit because of the design. A guy kicking the shiz out of people in a tux and smoking is stylish.

Obviously the suit can help him fight, though. I think it's a nice upgrade for speed, and that's as far as it goes. His kicks should take focus, backed up by improved haki (that he should get) and using the suit to best enhance everything.

Wasn't there some Vinsmoke genetics that haven't kicked in for Sanji?

 

[HereNThere]

I'm also seriously hoping for a haki upgrade. That's another reason I actually don't care for the suit. Everything else seems to be folded into haki, so I'm waiting for the same to be done for Diable Jambe.

It's really a bizarre addition to him. Seems like something that Nami, Usopp, and even Chopper, need more than him. I'm half hoping that he just has Franky and Usopp reverse engineer it for them, while he just keeps the invisibility for himself.

 

[King Moe]

Sanji was so cool at start of the series. Hes not having as much cool moments he deserves better but wano is zoros arc and elbaf for usopp and luffy.

He was so cool at baratie and in little garden being mr prince.

He does have his cool moments still, the issue is he need more fighting moments. He getting that with PO and Drake so far. Expect more in Wano, but wouldn't call it Zoro's arc as seems others got more shine than him. Even as we return to Reverie views boosted a lot more. Oda giving a lot of spotlight around for others.

 

[King Moe]

I'm also seriously hoping for a haki upgrade. That's another reason I actually don't care for the suit. Everything else seems to be folded into haki, so I'm waiting for the same to be done for Diable Jambe.

It's really a bizarre addition to him. Seems like something that Nami, Usopp, and even Chopper, need more than him. I'm half hoping that he just has Franky and Usopp reverse engineer it for them, while he just keeps the invisibility for himself.

I don't see Sanji helpless and rely on suit to fight every time. As shown wit fighting Drake without it, he can handle himself. Oda wouldn't make him rely on it for poemwer as stayed as he still train and get stronger on his own without it. Plus do think genetics factor do play a role as maybe using RS unlocks them more and he won't rely on it to use certain features anymore while wearing it.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 21, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 21, 2019 ---

Yeah but zoro will get the moments. Its clearly building up to that. Main moments for luffy as always but zoro will get some.

He does, but overall it been space around as Zoro isn't overshadowing everyone. We seen a lot from Sanji, Law, and others as much. If course Luffy naturally get spotlight, so it's all space out around.

 

[Fox666]

Yeah the suit looks stupid. But I guess that's true to all Germa brothers. :/