Discussion Sanji Discussion Thread

[Nie Li]

Sanji already proved himself against Page 1 and then by blocking King in the beginning of their clash without losing ground and finally brushing of King's attack. Ichiji was clowned by Katakuri. Sanji facing a similar opponent was at least able to hold his ground in a single clash.

All feats better than anything his brothers have done. And hasn't used anything stronger than Diable Jambe.

But like you said, more feats are clearly needed.

Imagine, Invisible Hell Memories with accelerators activated... thats a Yonko Commander finisher for sure

What you said is true, I'm only on the fence because Katakuri clowned Ichiji through his CoO, that we know is one of the best in the world and allowed him to swiftly exploit the RS weakness without wasting attacks on the suit itself, while King hasn't demonstrated what exactly he's good at, and it's not like Sanji has yet damaged him. I still don't see Sanji enduring a round against Katakuri until I see how more feats from him.

The Page 1 affair isn't much prove in the sense since Page is not near YC1 level and the debate about how much damage dealt him is still open (and please let's not go into that one, it's an unending one).


I know Sanji will surpass all and any Vinsmokes sooner than later, I don't even mention Yonji and Reiju since those two are clearly inferior all-around, and Niji likely is as well.

 

[goldb]

The raid suit conversation is also getting a bit played out if I'm honest. We still need more appearances and feats from it in terms of durability. Heck Sanji reacted to King's attack but also just like a normal base/nameless attack. So let's see if he does use it again and how it fairs in a proper fight scenario.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

He couldn't even touch Sanji in Base when he make comment about needing armor for his body given his durability and stamina issues.

i believe that's called gag scene. Unless we also want to say nami is stronger than sanji because nami always beats sanji everytime he does pervert acts.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 19, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 19, 2020 ---

The raid suit conversation is also getting a bit played out if I'm honest. We still need more appearances and feats from it in terms of durability. Heck Sanji reacted to King's attack but also just like a normal base/nameless attack. So let's see if he does use it again and how it fairs in a proper fight scenario.

yeah i bring the conversation because i want to see how people think on sanji using RS character wise (since i know some people actually think it's ironic for sanji to rely on RS). Too bad some users here just make this topic to be another power level topic. Let's just stop it, i guess.

 

[King Moe]

The raid suit conversation is also getting a bit played out if I'm honest. We still need more appearances and feats from it in terms of durability. Heck Sanji reacted to King's attack but also just like a normal base/nameless attack. So let's see if he does use it again and how it fairs in a proper fight scenario.

All we know is that Sanji easily block's King's attack when he was going to hit him and Momo and then tanked his Full Zoan Attack with Haki and it left no damage on him at all. Oda is clearly pushing him stronger to be able to face an YC lvl opponent and ongoing fight with King given his comment on flying DF users. We shouldn't be surprise if Strawhats get stronger in facing strong foes given this is like Enies Lobby in going to next stage of power for them all. While we get more feats, it's clear to see Sanji is on YC lvl of power if did those feats.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

So, do you think sanji's chivalry a bit too extreme? I feel like there's a difference between beating woman and defending yourself.
Kid sanji was scolded for unnecessary assault on woman customer, but zeff should understand if sanji attacked kalifa in enies lobby

 

[Nie Li]

All we know is that Sanji easily block's King's attack when he was going to hit him and Momo and then tanked his Full Zoan Attack with Haki and it left no damage on him at all. Oda is clearly pushing him stronger to be able to face an YC lvl opponent and ongoing fight with King given his comment on flying DF users. We shouldn't be surprise if Strawhats get stronger in facing strong foes given this is like Enies Lobby in going to next stage of power for them all. While we get more feats, it's clear to see Sanji is on YC lvl of power if did those feats.

Despite Sanji acknowledging in his dialogue that it's the durability of the RS that saved him, you will claim that is was "thanks to using haki" that he tanked the attack?

If it's thanks to haki that he tanked the hit to the point of not receiving damage at all on his torso, why didn't he also shield his head from hitting the ground with haki? That was a smaller impact than the one on his torso, yet he took damage on his haed and "no damage at all" on his torso.

You're clearly on denial if you claim that the RS was not what allowed Sanji to tank the blow.

 

[King Moe]

Despite Sanji acknowledging in his dialogue that it's the durability of the RS that saved him, you will claim that is was "thanks to using haki" that he tanked the attack?

If it's thanks to haki that he tanked the hit to the point of not receiving damage at all on his torso, why didn't he also shield his head from hitting the ground with haki? That was a smaller impact than the one on his torso, yet he took damage on his haed and "no damage at all" on his torso.

You're clearly on denial if you claim that the RS was not what allowed Sanji to tank the blow.

He is dressed in dark-tone with costume just similar with his black suit attire, so hard to tell if they use Haki, but we know they are capable. Also I know he stated RS is durable, but still doesn't mean his durability without it is lacking given he is same guy who tank Kanjuro's attack and was fine with Full Zoan Drake hitting him. He is durable without and with RS. Just saying.

In 990 chapter show no facial damage, so Idk what you mean he has damage if Oda draws him looking fine around.

I am not in denial, but your picking and choosing what you want to hear in narration again.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

He is dressed in dark-tone with costume just similar with his black suit attire, so hard to tell if they use Haki

so, how can you then be sure that sanji, as in your words, "tanked his Full Zoan Attack with Haki and it left no damage on him at all"?
since it's hard to tell, then it's also possible sanji's haki failed to tank the attack, especially since the end result is him acknowledging the durability of RS

 

[Brandish μ]

When Sanji outright says the suit protected him yet it's still debatable

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 20, 2020 ---

Sanji used CoA in ep 942 of the anime btw.

 

[Pro Ban Corps]

When Sanji outright says the suit protected him yet it's still debatable

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 20, 2020 ---

Sanji used CoA in ep 942 of the anime btw.

Yes as a Sanji fan... getting it confirmed in the anime kinda boring but oh well.
And of course the suit protected him.
I’ll say this again Sanji has been the most vulnerable fighter out of the monster trio.
When Zoro clashed with kyoshiro for eg it was his sword that took the impact. When luffy gets hit by most blunt objects or punches his DF makes him durable but Sanji, he blocks with his body and obviously he’s gonna take some damage and look weaker. This is why I like the RS it gives him the durability buff that he needs.

 

[Nie Li]

He is dressed in dark-tone with costume just similar with his black suit attire, so hard to tell if they use Haki, but we know they are capable. Also I know he stated RS is durable, but still doesn't mean his durability without it is lacking given he is same guy who tank Kanjuro's attack and was fine with Full Zoan Drake hitting him. He is durable without and with RS. Just saying.

In 990 chapter show no facial damage, so Idk what you mean he has damage if Oda draws him looking fine around.

I am not in denial, but your picking and choosing what you want to hear in narration again.

I never said he's unable to use haki, and I never said he's "not durable" without his RS.

Sanji being durable without RS is a fact. He's always been a strong, resilient, fighter, but that point is moot, and not even what we were talking about here. Why is it moot? Because every single fighter on this war is a high level fighter, it's just that there are characters that are stronger than others, and even a strong fighter can get a hole in their stomach from that King attack.

Kanjuro's attack is a pointless feat since we don't know how much damage that attack can actually deal, but Sanji was bruised after he was hit by X-Drake's tail, so it's not like he 100% tanked that one. Just saying.

In 990 chapter Sanji is only in a small panel, and it's clear that Oda forgot to add the bruises because of that. In 989 you can see how his face and head are bruised, so Idk what you mean he has no damage if Oda drawed him looking bruised. Or are you goint to tell me that he drawed those bruises on Sanji's face by mistake on chapter 989 and that he was actually undamaged? Which is more believable? That Oda forgot to draw detail in a panel or that he drew things that weren't there in another panel?

You're in denial. Sanji appears bruised in a big panel and then he's unbruised in a small, random one, but you pick the unbruised panel because it suits you. Sanji claims he hates the RS' durability because he himself is surprised the RS was durable enough for him to survive King's attack, but you choose to claim "he tanked the attack through haki". You choose what you want to hear in narration again.



You're talking about how I force some narration again, while you've arrived to a point at which you're ignoring both Sanji's direct words and the manga's drawings.


Edit: I don't even know what narration I'm supposed to be pushing or how my views on One Piece are improved by Sanji having become stronger thanks to his Raid Suit, which is a weapon 24/7 available to use in future fights, and allows him to tank attacks that he himself thought were gonna be fatal. So please tell me, what is this narration I'm trying to force? And how do I force it? Because I believe Sanji's words when he speaks to himself?

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 20, 2020 ---

Switching topic: I want to add something about the past Sanji vs King.

I'm glad Sanji took damage from King's attack and that the clash ended there.

Luffy and Zoro had both taken seemingly high damage from Apoo yet they are now, minutes later, fighting tobi roppos, numbers and other pirates like they were just fine, just to show how unexpectedly superior they actually are to these opponents. Sanji taking damage before the real fights start but pulling through and kicking asses in the coming chapters takes him to their level in a sense. Makes the three of them more "equal" in a sense, even if they are not entirely equally strong. It differenciates them from the rest of the crew in a good sense, in the Monster Trio sense.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Sanji used CoA in ep 942 of the anime btw.

anime also shows batman with CoA

 

[King Moe]

so, how can you then be sure that sanji, as in your words, "tanked his Full Zoan Attack with Haki and it left no damage on him at all"?
since it's hard to tell, then it's also possible sanji's haki failed to tank the attack, especially since the end result is him acknowledging the durability of RS

You have no proof of that to say it fails as if that was the case he would be damage like Katakuri did to Ichiji, but instead he is fully fine and shown next chapter he has no visible injuries. He did tank the attack, so Idk why your forcing debate to demeen it when it's clear Oda pushing him able to withstand YC lvl opponent and keep on fighting.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 20, 2020 ---

I never said he's unable to use haki, and I never said he's "not durable" without his RS.

Sanji being durable without RS is a fact. He's always been a strong, resilient, fighter, but that point is moot, and not even what we were talking about here. Why is it moot? Because every single fighter on this war is a high level fighter, it's just that there are characters that are stronger than others, and even a strong fighter can get a hole in their stomach from that King attack.

Kanjuro's attack is a pointless feat since we don't know how much damage that attack can actually deal, but Sanji was bruised after he was hit by X-Drake's tail, so it's not like he 100% tanked that one. Just saying.

In 990 chapter Sanji is only in a small panel, and it's clear that Oda forgot to add the bruises because of that. In 989 you can see how his face and head are bruised, so Idk what you mean he has no damage if Oda drawed him looking bruised. Or are you goint to tell me that he drawed those bruises on Sanji's face by mistake on chapter 989 and that he was actually undamaged? Which is more believable? That Oda forgot to draw detail in a panel or that he drew things that weren't there in another panel?

You're in denial. Sanji appears bruised in a big panel and then he's unbruised in a small, random one, but you pick the unbruised panel because it suits you. Sanji claims he hates the RS' durability because he himself is surprised the RS was durable enough for him to survive King's attack, but you choose to claim "he tanked the attack through haki". You choose what you want to hear in narration again.



You're talking about how I force some narration again, while you've arrived to a point at which you're ignoring both Sanji's direct words and the manga's drawings.


Edit: I don't even know what narration I'm supposed to be pushing or how my views on One Piece are improved by Sanji having become stronger thanks to his Raid Suit, which is a weapon 24/7 available to use in future fights, and allows him to tank attacks that he himself thought were gonna be fatal. So please tell me, what is this narration I'm trying to force? And how do I force it? Because I believe Sanji's words when he speaks to himself?

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 20, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 20, 2020 ---

Switching topic: I want to add something about the past Sanji vs King.

I'm glad Sanji took damage from King's attack and that the clash ended there.

Luffy and Zoro had both taken seemingly high damage from Apoo yet they are now, minutes later, fighting tobi roppos, numbers and other pirates like they were just fine, just to show how unexpectedly superior they actually are to these opponents. Sanji taking damage before the real fights start but pulling through and kicking asses in the coming chapters takes him to their level in a sense. Makes the three of them more "equal" in a sense, even if they are not entirely equally strong. It differenciates them from the rest of the crew in a good sense, in the Monster Trio sense.

Nah just you are in denial as your doing it again like many of our debates in your own view when it's not the case. Being a 'strong fighter' doesn't mean you can withstand the attacks of someone greater. Luffy is strong fighter, but was one-shot by Kaido with ease early in the arc. Not everyone can withstand YC lvl opponents attack and take no damage like Sanji did, so it's showing progress on his part not just in RS, but his own capabilities as well is what we talking about.

Kanjuro is at same level as the other Scabbards given trained and been with them for years and can use same form of Haki that was strong enough to pierce Kaido. We saw his Ink Arrows casually destroying the ships around and Sanji tank them without no visible damage without the suit. Kanjuro was no fodder opponent especially having COA which make his attacks more devastating from the result.

If he did forgot about it, don't think he would have continue drawing as he was on clear on drawing his face as well remember making injuries on Zoro in same page. If he truly forgot, Zoro wouldn't have injuries either, so it's odd he remembers on one character, but not the other in same page. It's just showing that was more debris than actual injury as clearly you forget King was aiming to pierce him through his body which he couldn't do at all even in Full Zoan with Haki.

I am not ignoring direct words at all as I know what he said, but your clearly pushing something on your own opinion views when it showing Sanji is more capable than he is without and with RS. That is force narration talk by ignoring the context to say something else that isn't truly shown about on the situation.

RS is not 24/7, it's more stealth missions as shown in the uses in how he fights with it. He doesn't need it to confront enemies in middle of fighting, but will fight with it as situational thing when doing stealth missions. Obviously he will use the suit, but not dependent factor unlike how Germa who can't fight without their suits on any enemy.

The fight isn't over and no damage at all on Sanji you keep pushing on narration when it clearly shows he is fine visible on his body and even his face next page. Also Luffy is fine with his body being an Rubber Man, but Zoro is getting more hurt overall than the 2 given his durability and stamina are not same anymore like pre-timeskip. He is more damage and injury prone given what we seen in many fights as shown in getting injuries from Apoo who was non-serious with him and Gifters looks to left physical injuries on his head or Queen dropping him down from high area. Where is Zoro is equal to Luffy? He was never was as gap between them is very far while he is more Sanji's level or lesser at this point given his durability and stamina shown he isn't doing good in them. They are Monster Trio and always been, so please stop downplaying Sanji and your apparent dislike of the character if you can't be honest about situation and doing things against what manga is showing about it. If your not into a character, that's fine, but don't denied stuff if the manga is showing against your opinion. You been doing that more in talks when someone want give Sanji's praise each time I seen you on it.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 20, 2020 ---

Yes as a Sanji fan... getting it confirmed in the anime kinda boring but oh well.
And of course the suit protected him.
I’ll say this again Sanji has been the most vulnerable fighter out of the monster trio.
When Zoro clashed with kyoshiro for eg it was his sword that took the impact. When luffy gets hit by most blunt objects or punches his DF makes him durable but Sanji, he blocks with his body and obviously he’s gonna take some damage and look weaker. This is why I like the RS it gives him the durability buff that he needs.

Not really, we all seen who is most vulnerable and it's clearly more Zoro as he been getting hurt most compare to Sanji. Even with swords, he still using his body to be defensive as it's easily to get around his blades from how his past fights shown. Though both have Haki which helps them be more durable about the situation. However Sanji shown to be able to tank stuff in like with Drake, Kanjuro, and now with King, but Zoro have been having injuries and stamina issues with likes of Hawkins, Kyoshiro, Kamazou, Gyukimaro, Apoo, and Gifters. As of late he seems to be having problems knowing how to use Haki to defend himself in flexible way like Luffy and Sanji do, so think he really lacks being versatile and being flexible on offense and defense as he keeps getting hurt more the most out of everyone in this arc if I being honest.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

You have no proof of that to say it fails as if that was the case he would be damage like Katakuri did to Ichiji, but instead he is fully fine and shown next chapter he has no visible injuries. He did tank the attack, so Idk why your forcing debate to demeen it when it's clear Oda pushing him able to withstand YC lvl opponent and keep on fighting.

sanji does have visible injury

As you said with your own words, i have brought the evidence that he failed to "tank the attack with haki"

 

[King Moe]

sanji does have visible injury

As you said with your own words, i have brought the evidence that he failed to "tank the attack with haki"

Yet Oda draw him like this despite Oda still putting injuries on others (Like Zoro for example). So again stop using past chapter if current and future chapters takes narrative away from that. Either learn to admit fault and stop with ongoing insecurity or hurting your arguments for others to take you seriously .

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Yet Oda draw him like this despite Oda still putting injuries on others (Like Zoro for example). So again stop using past chapter if current and future chapters takes narrative away from that. Either learn to admit fault and stop with ongoing insecurity or hurting your arguments for others to take you seriously .

that just means oda is not consistent in his drawing. This is not a new thing. Oda has done redrawing several times on the one piece volumes, especially when he forgot to draw something. Don't blame this on me, just tell you fact that sanji was definitely injured, as everyone here also told you

 

[Brandish μ]

anime also shows batman with CoA

At least it confirms CoA for Sanji, rather than him having to 'prove' it anymore.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 21, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 21, 2020 ---

I’ll say this again Sanji has been the most vulnerable fighter out of the monster trio.
When Zoro clashed with kyoshiro for eg it was his sword that took the impact. When luffy gets hit by most blunt objects or punches his DF makes him durable but Sanji, he blocks with his body and obviously he’s gonna take some damage and look weaker. This is why I like the RS it gives him the durability buff that he needs.

It'd be much better if his CoA was top tier imo, with 'Black Leg' being no different to Zoro's sword.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

At least it confirms CoA for Sanji, rather than him having to 'prove' it anymore.

 

[Brandish μ]

? I'm not trying to trash Sanji in any way, just that Oda left it to now. He's had it since the TS and we're years past that.

 

[King Moe]

that just means oda is not consistent in his drawing. This is not a new thing. Oda has done redrawing several times on the one piece volumes, especially when he forgot to draw something. Don't blame this on me, just tell you fact that sanji was definitely injured, as everyone here also told you

Oh you can't handle the truth about being wrong when something go against your imagination and have nothing to prove your points. If Oda forgot about injuries even Zoro will not show his, so it push Sanji never got hurt and that was debris, not real injury. If he took damage, he wouldn't be discussing more about it, but he came out still fine and getting back to fighting right away.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 21, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 21, 2020 ---

At least it confirms CoA for Sanji, rather than him having to 'prove' it anymore.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 21, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 21, 2020 ---

It'd be much better if his CoA was top tier imo, with 'Black Leg' being no different to Zoro's sword.

It been confirmed for a long time honestly. Thinking he can't go COA at this point and yet capable of damaging YVs and fighting YC with Basic lvl doesn't make sense at all as it's more color scheme than him unable to do it. Same can be said on King given wearing dark-color suit and flames, so it be hard to see his Haki, but I highly doubt YC like him can't have high lvl of Haki. Are we going to say King doesn't have it due to not seeing it clearly? Honestly that wouldn't make sense at all and think more color scheme, but they both have high level COA for sure.