Discussion Shanks: Good or evil?

[McNuss]

If shanks choose the world government to stay in power rather to have someone like Blackbeard to be the king of pirates is it count as good or evil?

The World Government isn't that bad actually. Hard to swallow, but yeah it's true:

1. Most member countries are wealthy. They all can chose their form of Government.

2. The Marines offer global protection from the evil Pirates. Most Marines are just and care for the safety of the citizens.

3. International diplomacy is emphasized.


We have seen the Gorosei talk in private many times, there's no reason for them to be lying. They care about the stability of the world.

The Tenryubito are loathed, but not actually for their crimes. Most citizens never get to see a single one of them. They are loathed because the citizens have to pay a tax, but then again, most countries are wealthy.

We as readers mostly loathe them for the genocide of Ohara... But they never planned a genocide, every innocent citizen was supposed to escape, then Sakazuki blew them up on his own accord.

If you compare the WG with the five steady members of the UN security council, the US, Russia (formerly USSR), China, France and Great Britain, or with the past of my own country, Germany, then you'll realize how the WG is actually quite moderate.

Readers of One Piece are purposefully biased toward Piracy but...

Pirates are typically Evil. Oda makes you cheer for Luffy in Drum Island, but the true pirate is Wapol! That's what Pirates are, bad people.

There's one Pirate crew that's actually just romantic dreamers, and it's not the Strawhats, it's the Saruyama Alliance.
Even Luffy's actions almost accidentally caused the annihilation of Fishman Island, Dressrosa, WCI..

And the Revolutionaries? Last time we saw them, they planned and apparently orchestrated a terrorist attack on a diplomatic world council, just to rescue someone who is already dead.

The readers expectation about the end is massively flawed. Luffy is going to destroy the world government... Yeah! And then? Why would someone spend 1200 chapters and three decades for something that has no message and no meaning?

 

[hokageji]

the fact that WG allows slavery for a select few and takes taxes for a hard case to say they aren't evil...
They aren't nice... the navy, sure.... but the WG, no...

 

[McNuss]

the fact that WG allows slavery for a select few and takes taxes for a hard case to say they aren't evil...
They aren't nice... the navy, sure.... but the WG, no...

Good point, but:

All of the Pirate villains presented after the timeskip, are slavers, too. Except for Caesar, who is even worse. Keep in mind, no one is actually free in WCI either.

Again, most of the citizens don't witness any of the Tenryubito's crimes. Based on what the One Piece World presents, the alternative is Pirate's terror dictatorship. I would also rather live in China than under ISIS.

 

[Fox666]

The World Government isn't that bad actually. Hard to swallow, but yeah it's true:

1. Most member countries are wealthy. They all can chose their form of Government.

2. The Marines offer global protection from the evil Pirates. Most Marines are just and care for the safety of the citizens.

3. International diplomacy is emphasized.


We have seen the Gorosei talk in private many times, there's no reason for them to be lying. They care about the stability of the world.

The Tenryubito are loathed, but not actually for their crimes. Most citizens never get to see a single one of them. They are loathed because the citizens have to pay a tax, but then again, most countries are wealthy.

We as readers mostly loathe them for the genocide of Ohara... But they never planned a genocide, every innocent citizen was supposed to escape, then Sakazuki blew them up on his own accord.

If you compare the WG with the five steady members of the UN security council, the US, Russia (formerly USSR), China, France and Great Britain, or with the past of my own country, Germany, then you'll realize how the WG is actually quite moderate.

Readers of One Piece are purposefully biased toward Piracy but...

Pirates are typically Evil. Oda makes you cheer for Luffy in Drum Island, but the true pirate is Wapol! That's what Pirates are, bad people.

There's one Pirate crew that's actually just romantic dreamers, and it's not the Strawhats, it's the Saruyama Alliance.
Even Luffy's actions almost accidentally caused the annihilation of Fishman Island, Dressrosa, WCI..

And the Revolutionaries? Last time we saw them, they planned and apparently orchestrated a terrorist attack on a diplomatic world council, just to rescue someone who is already dead.

The readers expectation about the end is massively flawed. Luffy is going to destroy the world government... Yeah! And then? Why would someone spend 1200 chapters and three decades for something that has no message and no meaning?

One Piece relativizes Luffy's status as a criminal.

Luffy wants to be a pirate because he would be free.

Sure there are evil pirates. But Luffy's not a criminal because he's hurting people, he's a criminal because he wants to be free.

On the other hand, there are evil Marines who are not criminals because they work for the government.

 

[hokageji]

Good point, but:

All of the Pirate villains presented after the timeskip, are slavers, too. Except for Caesar, who is even worse. Keep in mind, no one is actually free in WCI either.

Again, most of the citizens don't witness any of the Tenryubito's crimes. Based on what the One Piece World presents, the alternative is Pirate's terror dictatorship. I would also rather live in China than under ISIS.

Yea, but pirates aren't one wholesome unit... They are individual entities and surely filled with evil pirates all over, i dont disagree with that... Big Mom surely is evil and acts like WG herself.

WG does allows slavery, looks down on other races and worships one like gods, and act and the central villain of the series. Anyways, my point is the marines do all the good there, or atleast most of it while the WG stand for the bad stuff that happens... its also reflected in the RA's aim

 

[slavkovski]

the fact that WG allows slavery for a select few and takes taxes for a hard case to say they aren't evil...
They aren't nice... the navy, sure.... but the WG, no...

So.. If you are a one piece world average people.. Would you rather live in the present day where the WG basically have the power or would you rather live in the world like what Kaido dream of? Where the pirates ruled?

 

[Fox666]

WG does allows slavery, looks down on other races and worships one like gods, and act and the central villain of the series. Anyways, my point is the marines do all the good there, or atleast most of it while the WG stand for the bad stuff that happens... its also reflected in the RA's aim

The Marines are the greatest force of the WG.

If the WG is doing evil, then most of it is through of the Marines.

Compare it to the Nazi Germany, and the soldier who were only following orders.

 

[McNuss]

Yea, but pirates aren't one wholesome unit... They are individual entities and surely filled with evil pirates all over, i dont disagree with that... Big Mom surely is evil and acts like WG herself.

WG does allows slavery, looks down on other races and worships one like gods, and act and the central villain of the series. Anyways, my point is the marines do all the good there, or atleast most of it while the WG stand for the bad stuff that happens... its also reflected in the RA's aim

The member countries of the World Government can choose their own form of government and laws. Slavery is hardly an issue for most people in the One Piece World and Mary Geoise a faraway place.

The racism is not just an issue coming down to the WG.

And the Celestial Dragons are treated as gods but not worshipped as such, as they are barely even present outside of Mary Geoise.

I am not making a case about the World Government being good. It is not. But it's not bad compared to the alternative, and it is not bad entirely. Which is why it is plausible for someone like Shanks to cooperate with them. And which is why the Fishman made such a big deal around finally visiting Levely.

Otohime was right and Tiger was wrong! Yet Oda makes the readers side with extremists without them realizing nor reflecting about it (example Fujitora).

The World Government is a corrupted system that needs to change, but it is also core to a unified world, just like the UN in reality.

Remember IgaraM? As whom was he dressing up again? As the Peacequeen. The one Strawhat Pirate that is actually capable of permanently changing the world for the better.

Compare it to the Nazi Germany, and the soldier who were only following orders.

Then the Marines look actually like saints. The worst Marines, Morgan, Nezumi, Sakazuki, Vergo, they all did the bad stuff on their own accord.

There are other aspects of the WG that come much closer, such as Impel Down or Cipher Pol. The Marines are hardly worse than NATO.

 

[hokageji]

So.. If you are a one piece world average people.. Would you rather live in the present day where the WG basically have the power or would you rather live in the world like what Kaido dream of? Where the pirates ruled?

Sure, i wouldn't mind being an average citizen or for that matter a marine trader, live my life with ease and comfort in the far east blue seas where dangers are relatively limited... But if you consider hte new world or for that matter even paradise, WG control slips.. so that changes things...

And my point still stands... WG is evil cos they have a sense of racial superiority. Any good we've seen in the OP world is from the marines like Smoker and Tashigi who guard the citizens... they have a few bad apples as well, but they dont directly deal with anything we see as evil.. Sure, they take care of people which is what Big Mom does as well....

The Marines are the greatest force of the WG.

If the WG is doing evil, then most of it is through of the Marines.

Compare it to the Nazi Germany, and the soldier who were only following orders.

THat is true, but the operations of slavery, experimentation and all are not something the marines carry on.. THat is independent of them. Marines safeguard the tenryuubito...
Yes, the soldiers who carried on Nazi orders were tried and sentenced, but their sentences were less harsh than the ones who gave those orders, no???

he member countries of the World Government can choose their own form of government and laws. Slavery is hardly an issue for most people in the One Piece World and Mary Geoise a faraway place.

The racism is not just an issue coming down to the WG.

And the Celestial Dragons are treated as gods but not worshipped as such, as they are barely even present outside of Mary Geoise.

I am not making a case about the World Government being good. It is not. But it's not bad compared to the alternative, and it is not bad entirely. Which is why it is plausible for someone like Shanks to cooperate with them. And which is why the Fishman made such a big deal around finally visiting Levely.

Otohime was right and Tiger was wrong! Yet Oda makes the readers side with extremists without them realizing nor reflecting about it (example Fujitora).

The World Government is a corrupted system that needs to change, but it is also core to a unified world, just like the UN in reality.

Remember IgaraM? As whom was he dressing up again? As the Peacequeen. The one Strawhat Pirate that is actually capable of permanently changing the world for the better.

McNuss, overall i agreee with you, you are right. THe bold text is somehting i agree 100% with. My main point is if we are going to WG "isnt evil", that would be inaccurate...

But the WG is more like the colonist than the united nations.

 

[Buulord]

Look, the world government in theory isnt a bad idea. The tenryuubito is a bad idea plain and simple. The world pays them taxes for literally no reason other than they created the world government 800 years ago and set themselves up as permanently in charge. The nobles weve seen besides the elder stars have all been lazy, entitled, monsters who abuse their privilege for their hedonistic pleasures and cruelty towards others. On top of all that, they can and have done whatever they want for their own benefit.

The fact that Shanks associates with them at all makes me think he’s a little less good than I had hoped. Not an evil man by any means but willing to work with evil isn’t a good look either. But who knows, maybe he’s just trying to give them a heads up on something big that would be especially bad if the WG failed on.

 

[Gryphon]

I think he is good guy who do bad things sometimes...

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Hmmm I think shanks is good tho
Wanting to stop ace
Prevent the war
I do think he’s ruthless and a pirate but overall still a good guy
Maybe he believes in maintaining the balance as it is to prevent a wholescale war
It’d be weird for shanks to inherit Rogers will then pass it to luffy then suddenly be a villain

 

[HereSince2010]

I think Shanks intentions are pure but he is what you’ll call an informant/snitch. He wants to keep balance but I think that’s what will make him and Luffy dissagree with each other. Luffy will want to beat up someone in the WG, Shanks will attempt to stop it like with WB and Kaido & Luffy will beat shanks then Blackbeard. Shanks wanted poster I think is also a hint from Oda that he’s shady, the looking to the side is what most untrustworthy people do, mark my words.

 

[Gryphon]

I think Shanks intentions are pure but he is what you’ll call an informant/snitch. He wants to keep balance but I think that’s what will make him and Luffy dissagree with each other. Luffy will want to beat up someone in the WG, Shanks will attempt to stop it like with WB and Kaido & Luffy will beat shanks then Blackbeard. Shanks wanted poster I think is also a hint from Oda that he’s shady, the looking to the side is what most untrustworthy people do, mark my words.

Zoro looking to the side too in his wanted poster.

 

[HereSince2010]

Zoro looking to the side too in his wanted poster.

True but Zoro has an expression in his ( like he’s arguing with Sanji) Shanks looks more emotionless in his. Also if we’re saying Shanks is similar to zoro in any sense, imagine someone like zoro going to speak to the WG, doesnt sound very Zoro-like, I feel like Zoro just wouldn’t care

 

[Fox666]

I don't think looking to the side must have a meaning.

Overall, the wanted posters give away the most important traits of a character. Luffy is smiling, Zoro is serious, Whitebeard is fierce, Kaido is pissed, etc.

 

[HereSince2010]

I don't think looking to the side must have a meaning.

Overall, the wanted posters give away the most important traits of a character. Luffy is smiling, Zoro is serious, Whitebeard is fierce, Kaido is pissed, etc.

What I also think

I don't think looking to the side must have a meaning.

Overall, the wanted posters give away the most important traits of a character. Luffy is smiling, Zoro is serious, Whitebeard is fierce, Kaido is pissed, etc.

What would you say Shanks wanted poster is giving away?

 

[Fox666]

What would you say Shanks wanted poster is giving away?

On his poster, Shanks seems to be thinking about something

It means either that he knows some secrets, or that he's a tactician

 

[grey matter]

Shanks gave his arm for Luffy.

He's the man who inherited Roger's will (hat)

Whitebeard had tremendous respect for him.

Stopped the war, bailed out rest of WB pirates and Luffy, and secured corpses of the dead pirates.

I fail to see how he could be a bad guy.

It's pretty clear that he knows a lot and is hiding something. (Like him stealing the most important DF from the world govt, meeting with Gorosei casually etc)
But I doubt he has any ill intentions

 

[Wurstkuche]

Yea, I agree Grey Matter. I had concerns too but on top of that something else that won me over was his tears for Roger when he announced that he was leaving the crew. That moment was intense IMO. And finally, I just dont think I could handle the mindfck of him being evil lol

That being said, the one thing that doesnt check out for me is the mystery behind why Shanks didnt go to LaughTale. What made him not pursue the Onepiece himself self even though we know he wanted to go on his own since he stayed behind to take care of Buggy. Does he know enough to believe that fate will work out for this prophesied individual (luffy) so he waits for him to develop get all the road poneglyphs from the other yonkou and then swoop in and take the scrubbings? And with that being the plan he decided to focus mainly on establishing himself as powerful individual and acquiring crew members were exceptional even among other yonkou crews to ensure theyd be able to overwhelm luffy and his crew when he became a great pirate. I honestly think this is a stretch but just trying to consider all possibilities.

I do think shanks and his crew are a bit more savage and edgy than the image they've been portrayed in so far in the story. I was pretty shocked when Kidd said that Shanks took his arm. You cant tell me shanks didnt do that just to be funny since they both had red hair. Like after he cut off his arm he probably made a joke about being like him and then threw his arm in the water while him and his crew just laughed at this man. So he probably has at least some dark humor but ultimately im leaning towards still being a good guy.