Movies Star Wars - The Thread

[kkck]

When will Rebels end actually?

Next couple episodes are the series finale. It's this monday.

 

[Arjuna]

Next couple episodes are the series finale. It's this monday.

Where are you watching it?After Kisscartoon went off air I couldn't see a single episode.

 

[upsurge]

When will Rebels end actually?

Next week. It's a three episode special.

Next couple episodes are the series finale. It's this monday.

The finale is confirmed to be three episodes in one.

Where are you watching it?After Kisscartoon went off air I couldn't see a single episode.

I'll send you links in PM.

 

[M3J]

Yeah, he did it out of selflessness but the dark side corruption he went through absolutely made him a selfish asshole. Do you think he was trying to save padme when he almost choked the life out of her? Anakin at that point was more focused on power than padme. The dark side corrupts people and makes them powerhungry and selfish. The original intention being good does not change that.

What are we arguing here? You're saying his original intention was selfless but he became a selfish asshole, while I'm saying his original intention was selfish, and he stayed selfish up until he saved his son. Hell, I'd even argue that Anakin's been selfish to an extent since Attack of the Clones.

Jacen's intention was good as he went to the dark side for his daughter's sake. He was even willing to kill his entire family for his daughter and ultimately sacrificed himself to make sure his daughter and former lover survived.

Good point on Jacen Solo.

Maul wanted power and vengeance. TCW made that abundantly clear.

Lucas made it clear through the Force Priestesses that acknowledging that one has a Dark Side but not giving into it is what makes true balance. Based on what I remember of the Force Priestesses' teachings, it seems just being in denial of the Dark Side on not addressing it at all is a bad idea.


His fear of loss played a big part. The loss of Qui-Gon (whom he began to see as a father figure) and then the loss of Shmi, and then Ahsoka (a younger sister figure) walking away from him instilled in him a fear of loss.


Yes. Well said.

Ah right, I forgot about the vengeance part, but I didn't know he was after power as well.

Ah, so destroying the old way of the Jedi was a step closer to the balance?

I still see Anakin's intentions as being selfish through and through.

 

[Ice devil slayer]

The last Jedi was really disappointing for me so much wasted potential I swear and I hated how they killed Luke..like give him some respect please lol
Tho kylo Ren is probably my favorite character of this trilogy such an interesting character, he doesn't even feel like a villain and i feel like he would be even more powerful if he was redeemed

Snoke was really wasted in this movie..hope he's still alive he gave me the chills

 

[upsurge]

Ah right, I forgot about the vengeance part, but I didn't know he was after power as well.

Yeah, he wanted power. Hence the whole Shadow Collective business.

Ah, so destroying the old way of the Jedi was a step closer to the balance?

It is hinted as such by the Force Priestesses and Bendu.

I still see Anakin's intentions as being selfish through and through.

I don't doubt that. He does come off as way too "attached" (nicest way to put it) in AOTC and TCW.

 

[kkck]

What are we arguing here? You're saying his original intention was selfless but he became a selfish asshole, while I'm saying his original intention was selfish, and he stayed selfish up until he saved his son. Hell, I'd even argue that Anakin's been selfish to an extent since Attack of the Clones.

Jacen's intention was good as he went to the dark side for his daughter's sake. He was even willing to kill his entire family for his daughter and ultimately sacrificed himself to make sure his daughter and former lover survived.

Anakin's original intention was to save padme. To me it would be a stretch to suggest such a thing was selffish tbh. It's not like anakin placed padme ahead of others early on or anything. At least before he started falling to the dark side anyways. If anything trying to act out on his visions and trying to save her is actually completely reasonable.

 

[M3J]

Yeah, he wanted power. Hence the whole Shadow Collective business.


It is hinted as such by the Force Priestesses and Bendu.


I don't doubt that. He does come off as way too "attached" (nicest way to put it) in AOTC and TCW.

I haven't read more than very few books dealing with Star Wars prior to A New Hope. Anakin comes off as too obsessed with Padme though, if not obsessed. I think one of the few times where he wasn't obsessed was when he wanted to save Obi-Wan after Dooku captured him, and when he and Obi-Wan were trying to save Palpatine.

Anakin's original intention was to save padme. To me it would be a stretch to suggest such a thing was selffish tbh. It's not like anakin placed padme ahead of others early on or anything. At least before he started falling to the dark side anyways. If anything trying to act out on his visions and trying to save her is actually completely reasonable.

Did he save Padme for Padme and his child, or did he save Padme because he wanted to be with her and didn't want to lose her?

It is reasonable, but that doesn't make it any less selfish if his reason was because he wanted to be with her. Jacen's motivation was more selfless because he wanted Alana to survive, whether or not he was in her future. Luke's was selfless (though arrogant) because he thought he could be a double agent and destroy Palpatine from the inside, and if it weren't for Leia, Luke would probably have become fully turned. Anakin's first foray into the dark side was selfish because he killed the Tusken Raiders for person reasons, revenge.

 

[FetherMan]

Black Panther beats The Last Jedi for domestic opening, WOWZA!!.

 

[kkck]

Well, I read a few headlines about how episode IX will have something about poe's and leia's relationship... And this is my takeaway: What?

Poe is a moron who cost the resistance about half its fleet due to disobeying orders to destroy a single ship. So what relationship? If this is about anything it should be either about how leia made stupid poe decisions because she found him dreamy or it should be about how she loathed his unlimited capacity to ruin everything he touches.

Gotta say, I watched episode 8 recently and its... Just bad. The movie has no rewatching value. The scene with poe destroying half the resistance forces is beyond asinine. The ships suddenly running out of gas is as stupid as the internet made it out to be. Its not something that you can not notice after its pointed out at least. The movie looks cool at times but subverting expectations for the sake of subverting rather than to tell a good story is not a good move. Its not like other star wars movies are specially strong in this regard but episode 8 is by far the worst in this regard. And this is considering episode 3's explanation for anakin turning to the dark side is mostly nonsense. The entire subplot with searching for the casino guy is actually incredibly boring, there is no payoff and the copout via vinicio del toro is just almost as bad as poe. Hammil's luke performance is great of course but I resent the movie for making luke into a massive failure who wasted the bulk of his life as a jedi. And lets be real... luke was supposedly the most powerful jedi in the galaxy's history.... And we were cheated out of seeing him actually fight. The best thing about this movie is easily the fight between rey-kylo and the red guys. Its easily among the best fights in star wars. Plausibly even the best... It's kind of a shame that even after rewatching the movie I can't remember what rei did in the movie though.

 

[Jammin]

The problem with the subverted expectations stuff is, once you've seen it once, it loses any impact it might have had. And with that movie when you take that away all your really left with is stupidity.

I actually enjoyed The Last Jedi well enough the first time a saw it. But rewatching it is just brutal.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 15, 2019, Original Post Date: Mar 15, 2019 ---

Like it's not just Poe for me. I struggle to understand how they are going to salvage any character.

Finn comes away in the best shape because he just had a terribly written love triangle and seeming like kind of a loser.
Rey became the definition of Mary Sue.
Poe is just kind of a joke of a soldier.
Both the Leia and Luke characters are a complete disaster.

I'd honestly be up for a full wipe. Kill everybody, reveal that a bunch of jedi survived in frozen in carbonite somehwere.

 

[kkck]

The problem with the subverted expectations stuff is, once you've seen it once, it loses any impact it might have had. And with that movie when you take that away all your really left with is stupidity.

I actually enjoyed The Last Jedi well enough the first time a saw it. But rewatching it is just brutal.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 15, 2019, Original Post Date: Mar 15, 2019 ---

Like it's not just Poe for me. I struggle to understand how they are going to salvage any character.

Finn comes away in the best shape because he just had a terribly written love triangle and seeming like kind of a loser.
Rey became the definition of Mary Sue.
Poe is just kind of a joke of a soldier.
Both the Leia and Luke characters are a complete disaster.

I'd honestly be up for a full wipe. Kill everybody, reveal that a bunch of jedi survived in frozen in carbonite somehwere.

Dunno, for me finn is the most solid member of the main cast. Being a stormtrooper and having escaped to join the resistance is an awesome backstory in general. The bit with rose is beyond asinine but its not finn's fault he was thrown into a stupid sidequest that ends with that rose nonsense.


With rey... I kinda struggle to remember what she has done in any of these movies. Its also kinda BS that she is as powerful as she has been shown to be. Episode 7 could get away with it because talent and whatnot along with kylo having a hole in his stomach but by episode 8 she in fact received literally zero training and was defeating fully trained force users. Luke became insanely powerful very quickly but he at least trained a non zero amount of time. Rey just spent a day with luke and luke didn't teach her shit. He was just there trying to rationalize his own failures.

And ultimately episode 8 tries to literally bury the previous movies.... Why? To whose benefit? That serves no one but whichever jackass wrote the movie. The first 6 movies were about the skywalkers and that is perfectly fine. I'd rather have midichlorians than whatever it is episode 8 did....

 

[upsurge]

After re-watching TLJ a few times, I actually take back everything I said about the film. And I also feel like an idiot for jumping onto the bandwagon of hatred for TLJ.

I also disagree with the notion that Luke was ruined. In fact, now that I sit down and think about it with a clear head, the Luke we got in TLJ was actually far more Jedi-like than Legends Luke, who was an OP as hell and needlessly convoluted character.

All in all, my negative feelings toward the film have mostly subsided. However, I still rank TLJ relatively low on my list of Star Wars films.

My only remaining complaint with the film is about just how badly written the battles were. But I don't even want to get into that right now. That'd make a few essays.

---

And for the love of all that is good, I hope people shut the fuck up this year about Mary Sues and made up agendas this year. It's bad enough being a Star Wars fan right now (what with all the negativity in this fandom) without lies and fake news and boycott calls from the Alt Right being thrown into the mix.

 

[kkck]

After re-watching TLJ a few times, I actually take back everything I said about the film. And I also feel like an idiot for jumping onto the bandwagon of hatred for TLJ.

I also disagree with the notion that Luke was ruined. In fact, now that I sit down and think about it with a clear head, the Luke we got in TLJ was actually far more Jedi-like than Legends Luke, who was an OP as hell and needlessly convoluted character.

All in all, my negative feelings toward the film have mostly subsided. However, I still rank TLJ relatively low on my list of Star Wars films.

My only remaining complaint with the film is about just how badly written the battles were. But I don't even want to get into that right now. That'd make a few essays.

---

And for the love of all that is good, I hope people shut the fuck up this year about Mary Sues and made up agendas this year. It's bad enough being a Star Wars fan right now (what with all the negativity in this fandom) without lies and fake news and boycott calls from the Alt Right being thrown into the mix.

Dunno about the legends stuff but I don't see how like in the last jedi can be characterized as anything but a failure. As of the jedi return luke was supposed to rebuild the jedi order, train jedi, protect the republic. In the force awakens we had luke who had left a map of where to find him. Well, either that or it was just a map of the first jedi temple and people who knew luke thought he went there for reasons. Then in TLJ it turns out he was simply there hidden and waiting to die. So in either scenario luke is too stupid to hide himself because either he left behind a map to his hiding spot OR he went to a place where his close friends and family would pretty much look first. Anyways, then we see he did start his jedi academy.... And blew it. You can make the point it wasn't his fault and all but still, he failed pretty hard. And then instead of being better he proceeded to incompetently exile himself. Without trying to help anyone in his family who needed him. Add to that the republic being destroyed in the force awaken. Which had he been active as a jedi he might have been able to do something about. Of course, rei shows up to the jedi temple and tells luke about leia and he... tells rei to fuck of. I mean, seriously!? That's your fucking sister. Its not merely indifferent, its outright cruel and evil to leave a sibling to die like that. Even if I were to buy this whole disenchanted with the force luke thing, its completely unforgivable that his attitude to his sister was like that. And then the final fight... which didn't even really happen. it looked cool the first time at the movies... But watch it again and all you get is being cheated out of seeing the most powerful jedi in the galaxy's history show his stuff.

There was a line that was something like "What do you think, i am going to grab my laser sword and defeat the first order?".... Of course the question was rhetorical and whatnot but the answer to it is "YES! FUCKING YES! THAT SOUNDS AWESOME!". I have to admit that the line "Everything you just said is wrong" is pretty cool though. it's a bit of a silver lining, too bad it plays into all the pointless subverting thing the movie so stupidly thought was so clever.

At this point the bar is so low that i just hope it doesn't turn that internet theory about snoke having never been real is correct. Then again, that's not even worst than what we got which is... squat. Honestly, everything about snoke is just so terrible that I can't think of anything they can do about him that I would like. frankly, everything about snoke is not merely bad at this point, its plainly stupid. Add to that us being cheated out of seeing what he could do force wise. I will take acrobatic yodas over these snoke nonsense any time. That said, the scene with yoda and luke is definitely one of the bests in the movie. Its a shame that the payoff from that did not include luke actually completing his mission. now we have to settle for the idiocy of him as a force ghost maybe kinda training rei. Or even worst, him leading rei to a conveniently disgruntled jedi that can train her. I will give the movie props if it has the balls to show a 100 year old maimed mace windu training her though. It's not a good development per say but it beats every single "twist" in TLJ by hundreds of billions of parsecs...

 

[upsurge]

Dunno about the legends stuff but I don't see how like in the last jedi can be characterized as anything but a failure. As of the jedi return luke was supposed to rebuild the jedi order, train jedi, protect the republic. In the force awakens we had luke who had left a map of where to find him. Well, either that or it was just a map of the first jedi temple and people who knew luke thought he went there for reasons. Then in TLJ it turns out he was simply there hidden and waiting to die. So in either scenario luke is too stupid to hide himself because either he left behind a map to his hiding spot OR he went to a place where his close friends and family would pretty much look first. Anyways, then we see he did start his jedi academy.... And blew it. You can make the point it wasn't his fault and all but still, he failed pretty hard. And then instead of being better he proceeded to incompetently exile himself. Without trying to help anyone in his family who needed him. Add to that the republic being destroyed in the force awaken. Which had he been active as a jedi he might have been able to do something about. Of course, rei shows up to the jedi temple and tells luke about leia and he... tells rei to fuck of. I mean, seriously!? That's your fucking sister. Its not merely indifferent, its outright cruel and evil to leave a sibling to die like that. Even if I were to buy this whole disenchanted with the force luke thing, its completely unforgivable that his attitude to his sister was like that. And then the final fight... which didn't even really happen. it looked cool the first time at the movies... But watch it again and all you get is being cheated out of seeing the most powerful jedi in the galaxy's history show his stuff.

There was a line that was something like "What do you think, i am going to grab my laser sword and defeat the first order?".... Of course the question was rhetorical and whatnot but the answer to it is "YES! FUCKING YES! THAT SOUNDS AWESOME!". I have to admit that the line "Everything you just said is wrong" is pretty cool though. it's a bit of a silver lining, too bad it plays into all the pointless subverting thing the movie so stupidly thought was so clever.

Yes. Luke failed. And he was broken. He's only a man, not some Gary Stu who always stays positive and saves the day. And him learning about the hypocrisy and failures of the previous Jedi Order didn't help. Of course he was disillusioned with the flawed Jedi Order and thought it'd be best for them to die out. It makes sense. Disillusionment with your country/religion/ethnicity whatever is a thing. Luke's portrayal in TLJ, like it or not, makes sense.

It's like how I myself became disillusioned with Hinduism and religion in general and turned my back on them.

As I have said before even when I was more negative about TLJ: The people who ask for Luke to be this heroic and OP badass while also criticizing Rey as a Mary Sue are just being hypocritical. It's expecting too much of Luke because of the OP as hell Gary Stu that he was in Legends. Simply put - it's asking too much of him. The Jedi in Canon are not some monstrously powerful broken badasses that can destroy armies with a wave of the hand and move mountains with a thought. It's time to let that shit go.

As HelloGreedo said: Luke sacrificing himself for others and leaving behind a positive legacy is far more Jedi like than just destroying an army with his space magic. The latter is not Jedi like. It's superhero-ish, but not Jedi like.

At this point the bar is so low that i just hope it doesn't turn that internet theory about snoke having never been real is correct. Then again, that's not even worst than what we got which is... squat. Honestly, everything about snoke is just so terrible that I can't think of anything they can do about him that I would like. frankly, everything about snoke is not merely bad at this point, its plainly stupid. Add to that us being cheated out of seeing what he could do force wise. I will take acrobatic yodas over these snoke nonsense any time. That said, the scene with yoda and luke is definitely one of the bests in the movie. Its a shame that the payoff from that did not include luke actually completing his mission. now we have to settle for the idiocy of him as a force ghost maybe kinda training rei. Or even worst, him leading rei to a conveniently disgruntled jedi that can train her. I will give the movie props if it has the balls to show a 100 year old maimed mace windu training her though. It's not a good development per say but it beats every single "twist" in TLJ by hundreds of billions of parsecs...

Yeah... This seems less like a complaint about Snoke as a character and more about your fanboy wishes not being fulfilled.

 

[Jammin]

And for the love of all that is good, I hope people shut the fuck up this year about Mary Sues and made up agendas this year. It's bad enough being a Star Wars fan right now (what with all the negativity in this fandom) without lies and fake news and boycott calls from the Alt Right being thrown into the mix.

I agree in spirit. I mean, I think people should just enjoy entertainment for what it is and look for things to love more than things to hate.

That being said the Mary Sue critique isn't a political one, even if that motivates some of the people trumpeting it. A Mary Sue is a very real writing flaw usually found in fan fiction. The male version Gary Stu is the same thing and is just as bad.

It's essentially a character without flaws. Who is always right and important to unrealistic degree. Who even when they seem like their wrong always turns out to be right. And all of it unearned.

Which, unfortunately, is how Rey was written in the Last Jedi. She didn't grow past flaws. She just didn't have them. Which is why the Mary Sue criticism has stuck to her like it has because that's what she was in this movie. As opposed to in the Force Awakens. Where she was this reckless, immature, and slightly clumsy but good hearted person. This version used the "chosen one" idea as an excuse to abandon basic character development concepts.

 

[kkck]

Yes. Luke failed. And he was broken. He's only a man, not some Gary Stu who always stays positive and saves the day. And him learning about the hypocrisy and failures of the previous Jedi Order didn't help. Of course he was disillusioned with the flawed Jedi Order and thought it'd be best for them to die out. It makes sense. Disillusionment with your country/religion/ethnicity whatever is a thing. Luke's portrayal in TLJ, like it or not, makes sense.

It's like how I myself became disillusioned with Hinduism and religion in general and turned my back on them.

As I have said before even when I was more negative about TLJ: The people who ask for Luke to be this heroic and OP badass while also criticizing Rey as a Mary Sue are just being hypocritical. It's expecting too much of Luke because of the OP as hell Gary Stu that he was in Legends. Simply put - it's asking too much of him. The Jedi in Canon are not some monstrously powerful broken badasses that can destroy armies with a wave of the hand and move mountains with a thought. It's time to let that shit go.

As HelloGreedo said: Luke sacrificing himself for others and leaving behind a positive legacy is far more Jedi like than just destroying an army with his space magic. The latter is not Jedi like. It's superhero-ish, but not Jedi like.


Yeah... This seems less like a complaint about Snoke as a character and more about your fanboy wishes not being fulfilled.

I don't really get the mary sue stuff. my biggest complain about rei, if any, would be that if you look back on a movie she is not really doing all that much. she gets her cool scenes of course but... otherwise not much. For the life of me I can't remember what she did in TFA other than fight kylo for instance. And in TLJ it feels like all she did besides the cool lightsaber fight is hearing luke skywalker being a bitch for 24 consecutive hours.

It absolutely does not make sense. that's not who luke was, its not who he became through his own journey. Even mark hammil came out and said this wasn't his luke and then had to take it back. Everything they did with luke in TLJ was nonsense for the sake of subverting.

for me its different, I had a far more possitive view of TLJ and it just went to shit. the movie gets worst every time you watch it. And WTF are you talking about with jedi moving mountains? We've never seen any jedi do anything like that.

Obviously, its both. A movie that does not deliver squat to its fans is by definition a bad movie. TLJ failed to deliver anything we wanted or stuff we didn't know we wanted. Heck, the best TLJ scene is without a doubt the yoda scene... and it was great because it gave fans exactly what they wanted. TLJ ultimately is not a movie that builds on the stuff that happened before, it does not deliver anything and the plot is just a bunch of nonsense. Seriously, how are people not straight up insulted by the vinicio del toro stuff? Finn and fucking rose are sent on a dumb sidequest to search for a guy who apparently lives in a casino and thus can easily be found at any time. And then they don't find him, he dies or some shit and through sheer coincidence run into the only other guy in the galaxy that could help them when getting arrested. What are the odds of this happening? It's a whole galaxy so.... the equivalent of winning the lottery a few times in a row?

 

[upsurge]

I agree in spirit. I mean, I think people should just enjoy entertainment for what it is and look for things to love more than things to hate.

That being said the Mary Sue critique isn't a political one, even if that motivates some of the people trumpeting it. A Mary Sue is a very real writing flaw usually found in fan fiction. The male version Gary Stu is the same thing and is just as bad.

It's essentially a character without flaws. Who is always right and important to unrealistic degree. Who even when they seem like their wrong always turns out to be right. And all of it unearned.

Which, unfortunately, is how Rey was written in the Last Jedi. She didn't grow past flaws. She just didn't have them. Which is why the Mary Sue criticism has stuck to her like it has because that's what she was in this movie. As opposed to in the Force Awakens. Where she was this reckless, immature, and slightly clumsy but good hearted person. This version used the "chosen one" idea as an excuse to abandon basic character development concepts.

Rey is flawed though. She had a terribly unhealthy attachment to her traumatic and pathetic past throhghout most of TFA and even TLJ, bet everything on being able to turn Ben back (in her hubris) and failed miserably, couldn't actually bring Luke back with her (which would have been truly cliche). If she was an actual Mary Sue, things would have likely gone a lot smoother.

I also don't understand why people try to read so much into Rey's writing quality. I truly doubt if it was the same character but male, the scrutiny would be as harsh. Don't get me wrong, she isn't the best written character in Star Wars. But the scrutiny and criticism she has received is just too damn much.

Well, it's at least comfroting to know that it's like less than 1% of the fandom that is guilty of this.

And I must once again stress my point about power fantasies (which I made months ago). The same people who want Luke to be a male power fantasy are the ones complaining about Rey being a female power fantasy. It's just hypocrisy.

I don't really get the mary sue stuff. my biggest complain about rei, if any, would be that if you look back on a movie she is not really doing all that much. she gets her cool scenes of course but... otherwise not much. For the life of me I can't remember what she did in TFA other than fight kylo for instance. And in TLJ it feels like all she did besides the cool lightsaber fight is hearing luke skywalker being a bitch for 24 consecutive hours.

It absolutely does not make sense. that's not who luke was, its not who he became through his own journey. Even mark hammil came out and said this wasn't his luke and then had to take it back. Everything they did with luke in TLJ was nonsense for the sake of subverting.

Yes. It does make sense. People get disillusioned, depressed, and wish to die - even the best of us. It's a fact of life.

And you go on and on about TLJ stupidly subverting expectations, but never address the real problem: That of a tiny but vocal minority of Star Wars fans having expectations that are too ridiculous to meet being subverted, and then whining endlessly about it like a bunch pf petulant brats. And do note that this isn't a dig at you. I am also guilty of this. It was the reason I came out of TLJ mostly with mixed feelings after the first viewing.

But it's time to grow up and move past the hatred. Just how salty can you be over a movie franchise for 12 year olds? I realized this and moves on. You should too, for the sake of your mental health. Either that or drop this franchise.

for me its different, I had a far more possitive view of TLJ and it just went to shit. the movie gets worst every time you watch it. And WTF are you talking about with jedi moving mountains? We've never seen any jedi do anything like that.

Legends: We see Luke demolish and move a 3 km high and wide palace and has indeed uplifted a mountain, Luke and Kyp Durron manipulate a black hole (albeit an artificial one), Darth Bane affected the orbit of a moon with his Force power, Palpatine can unleash Force Storms capable of destroying the surface of an entire planet, Darth Nihilus life-wiped a planet and razed its surface just by speaking, Abeloth melted a city and caused a planet to quake violently with a Force Scream.

Canon: Yoda blocked a blow from and also sent a multi-kilometer tall living mountain flying with his telekinesis in the Yoda's Secret War arc of the canon Marvel Star Wars comics.

Obviously, its both. A movie that does not deliver squat to its fans is by definition a bad movie. TLJ failed to deliver anything we wanted or stuff we didn't know we wanted. Heck, the best TLJ scene is without a doubt the yoda scene... and it was great because it gave fans exactly what they wanted. TLJ ultimately is not a movie that builds on the stuff that happened before, it does not deliver anything and the plot is just a bunch of nonsense. Seriously, how are people not straight up insulted by the vinicio del toro stuff? Finn and fucking rose are sent on a dumb sidequest to search for a guy who apparently lives in a casino and thus can easily be found at any time. And then they don't find him, he dies or some shit and through sheer coincidence run into the only other guy in the galaxy that could help them when getting arrested. What are the odds of this happening? It's a whole galaxy so.... the equivalent of winning the lottery a few times in a row?

It's like less than 1% of the fandom that is bitching endlessly about TLJ. And that 1% does not speak for the whole fandom. They're a vocal minority that everyone is sick of. And it's this vocal minority that once killed Star Wars and is trying to kill it again. Lucasfilm is under no obligation to satisfy our ridiculous expectations. At the end of the day, the movies are for the 99% sane fans and to make money. And TLJ succeeded at that. And it succeeded gloriously.

The movie has more than a few flaws and doesn't rank highly in my list of Star Wars films. But the hatred it has received is too damn much.

 

[xi0]

I also don't understand why people try to read so much into Rey's writing quality. I truly doubt if it was the same character but male, the scrutiny would be as harsh. Don't get me wrong, she isn't the best written character in Star Wars. But the scrutiny and criticism she has received is just too damn much.

I get what you're saying but Anakin was male and that didn't protect him or Hayden Christensen from scrutiny. It happens to characters that are the focal points of disappointing movies.

It's like less than 1% of the fandom that is bitching endlessly about TLJ. And that 1% does not speak for the whole fandom. They're a vocal minority that everyone is sick of. And it's this vocal minority that once killed Star Wars and is trying to kill it again. Lucasfilm is under no obligation to satisfy our ridiculous expectations. At the end of the day, the movies are for the 99% sane fans and to make money. And TLJ succeeded at that. And it succeeded gloriously.

The movie has more than a few flaws and doesn't rank highly in my list of Star Wars films. But the hatred it has received is too damn much.

Less than 1% that is bitching about it? Dunno, that seems like a gross mischaracterization to me. I would say the majority of people I know who saw TLJ left feeling mixed or underwhelmed by it. TFA didn't reinvent the wheel, but I still really enjoyed it. I was not against having my expectations subverted. I was even ready for a more "gray" Luke... But sadly the film overall was executed rather poorly IMO.

 

[Jammin]

Rey is flawed though. She had a terribly unhealthy attachment to her traumatic and pathetic past throhghout most of TFA and even TLJ, bet everything on being able to turn Ben back (in her hubris) and failed miserably, couldn't actually bring Luke back with her (which would have been truly cliche). If she was an actual Mary Sue, things would have likely gone a lot smoother.

I also don't understand why people try to read so much into Rey's writing quality. I truly doubt if it was the same character but male, the scrutiny would be as harsh. Don't get me wrong, she isn't the best written character in Star Wars. But the scrutiny and criticism she has received is just too damn much.

Well, it's at least comfroting to know that it's like less than 1% of the fandom that is guilty of this.

And I must once again stress my point about power fantasies (which I made months ago). The same people who want Luke to be a male power fantasy are the ones complaining about Rey being a female power fantasy. It's just hypocrisy.

Why wouldn't we consider how Rey was written in the movie? And what does male and female have to do with anything? For someone who hopes the political side of this dies, your sure are hung up on that. I just got done saying how I thought Poe and Finn were bad too for different reasons. And almost nobody had any problem with Rey in the Force Awakens because, as I literally just said, she was written just fine in that movie.

Attachment to her past is not a "flaw" unless it actually results in something bad. Which it didn't.

"Mary Sue" doesn't mean everything works out either. In fact in the actual story that the term comes from the character dies and everybody is at her memorial service talking about how wonderful she was. What it refers to is when characters don't work for their gains and therefor are not empathetic. That was not the case with Luke or even Rey in the The Force Awakens.

And Star Wars is not a power fantasy. There is nothing wrong with power fantasies that's just not what Star Wars is (outside of like videogames). Luke didn't defeat the Emperor. Darth Vader does. That alone would be enough to disqualify it. The movie Commando is power a fantasy. Star Wars at it's core is basically Coming of Age fantasy in Sci-Fi setting. Even the Last Jedi is still trying to be that. It's just failed it, IMO.