You can never underestimate anyone, barring the complete noobs like FCN (and even they put up a good fight against Chelsea on Tuesday), such as how APOEL made it to the QFs last year. We saw the same issues in the CL with City last year and it's continuing. City should be down six points to both Madrid and Dortmund, but Dortmund screwed up some chances and ended up with a draw because of a bs home penalty decision.
While people claim that Dortmund doesn't have a good record in European competition, they beat the Zidane-led Juventus side in the 96-97 CL Final 3-1. Paul Lambert, that lamer who managed Norwich and now manages Villa, completely shut down Zidane in that match.
While I know a lot of people look down on the Bundesliga, they are the third highest rated league in Europe, having pipped knocked Italy out of the third spot last year, so now the Bundesliga gets four CL spots, not Italy. Reus, Dortmund's goal scorer tonight, is the player I have rated the highest out of all young players. I think he's more of a threat than Hazard, for example. In the end, I'm not sure if Reus will end up being better than Hazard, but I'm just saying don't sleep on Reus. A lot of the English commentators tend to look down on the Bundesliga and players who don't play for traditionally big teams or aren't linked to traditionally big teams, and I think that that leads to a lot of people being unaware of the talent that exists elsewhere.
Chelsea utterly shut down Juve's midfield, but two poor moments, including that Mikel pass, gifted Juve two soft goals, so nothing's changed. I do think Juve will probably qualify second out of the group, but Shakhtar may still pip them for it.