Life The MangaHelpers Confessional Thread - Part 2

MiyamotoMusashi · Apr 6, 2013

xi0 said:
I still think it's weird, only because it's a foreign concept for me. But it sounds like it worked out for her, so I have no issue with that sort of thing at all.

The reason arranged marriages even work in most cases is the difference in values of the couple compared to ours. For someone like M3J and Charlie who grew up in a Western society (as far as i know, correct me if i am wrong) which in turn places a huge value on love, freedom and so forth, it is an alien concept. We want to have a loving and caring partner, we want to have a specific amount of children, a steady job, a house and so forth (huge generalization i know but it does not mean it doesn´t apply to most people). In societies in which arranged marriage are a popular option, the emphasis is more on "to be" than "to have". They want to be a couple, they want to be married, they want to be a father/mother which does not completely devalue the importance of who the partner is but still has a different ranking than in Western societies.

xi0 · Apr 6, 2013

MiyamotoMusashi said:
The reason arranged marriages even work in most cases is the difference in values of the couple compared to ours. For someone like M3J and Charlie who grew up in a Western society (as far as i know, correct me if i am wrong) which in turn places a huge value on love, freedom and so forth, it is an alien concept. We want to have a loving and caring partner, we want to have a specific amount of children, a steady job, a house and so forth (huge generalization i know but it does not mean it doesn´t apply to most people). In societies in which arranged marriage are a popular option, the emphasis is more on "to be" than "to have". They want to be a couple, they want to have a marriage, they want to be a father/mother which does not completely devalue the importance of who the partner is but still has a different ranking than in Western societies.

Of course. I said myself that it's foreign to me, and that's meant literally and figuratively.

earthforge · Apr 6, 2013

M3J said:
What I was saying is that your opinions don't seem to be based on facts, but what you think are facts.

But no, the person isn't necessarily stuck with the spouse. It's up to them. Like I said, a friend of mine divorced her husband (love marriage), but she doesn't mention it among family in India since it's a taboo subject.

And then what you write is a saga of how if you divorce in Indian culture, then you are "broken goods" sotospeak. That is incredibly wrong and antiquated. Family also has a duty to support you. If they abandon you to service themselves with their ideal of "culture", without trying to compromise, then fuck them.

My mom's side of the family has a similar view of women. They treated my mom very badly, but then resented my dad for treating her well for the first time. They still resent how my parents have a very stable marriage in comparison to all of them (two of my uncles had ugly divorced, my grandfather is on wife #3, etc.) You know how we deal with it? We never talk with them, because they seek to destroy out of envy.

If you really wanna know how I feel about Indian culture, Pakistani culture, Middle East culture, Hindu, Muslim, and whatnot, then it can be summed up in two words, "fuck it." Far too judgmental and far too disrespectful of the women. I find it hard to accept a culture that at the very least, can't respect women or consider them equals.

I agree. But the concept of arranged marriage stresses the inequality of women and men.

Desperation to get married? I'm talking about Indian culture's point of view. And usually, parents and even aunts and uncles try to get the girl married as soon as possible when she's an adult. Few of my friends are about 21-27, but the family is trying to find husbands for them or encourage them to get married. It's annoying how women have to get married while they're young, and how older generations think that the older the women are, less desirable they become.

That's the culture's fault because they view unmarried women as broken goods. It is in turn the family's fault for refusing to consider a realistic system that considers failure as the woman's fault.

Only issue is that I THINK that your negative views aren't based on facts.

Neither are yours. Both are based on anecdotes.

Watch some Hindi movies if you wanna get a better idea.

Nii · Apr 6, 2013

Hardy said:
No, really, that's adorable

I expected more of such jokes, maybe some people have matured without me noticing :heh

No, really, he just is that cute. Maybe it's because I started working right when he first joined the nursery school. Nowadays I can't come there that often because of school but back then he started crying as soon as I left him for more than one minute. He didn't even sleep without me :XD

my colleagues told me it was really hard for him (and them) when I left the place but he's doing pretty fine now. Probably must have hurt him a lot as he's still so little and definitely couldn't understand why I left and only payed a visit once in a while. Even after all this time he's still happy when I come over to the nursery school and here I thought he would forget about me after some weeks (after all he's barely 2 years old). At first my colleagues were surprised but now they're just joking about it whenever I show up.

I realized that text makes it look like I'm awfully fixated on him :lmao

M3J said:
...

I shain't say nothing, as I'm sure I'd likely break the ice once and for all or something.

but...

DAFUQ

wtf are you talking about Milly? I only know "Das Eis brechen (to break the ice)" as a german saying here, which means getting to know each other better/to close the emotional distance between two people. I doubt you mean that though....

BBB Banana said:
With your female sex and your avatar and that post. One could swear you were riki

Oh right, we have another educator here! I bet she feels the same as me sometimes :XD

Pat · Apr 6, 2013

As someone who lives in a country where bride prices and forced marriages are still common, I think such marriages result in more harm than good. Since the husband pays a price for his wife, he sees her as a property and oppresses her. The girl, unable to leave his husband in fear of being killed, lives a sorrowful life and endures all the difficulties she faces. The marriage works in the sense that it doesn't end in divorce but it can be hardly called "ideal". Fortunately this practice is getting rarer and the government is encouraging parents to respect the wishes of their children.

Many parents, especially mothers, try to set up their children with potential spouses when they're of age, they want to see their children get married and have kids, such arrangements are probably as common as love marriages here. Under normal circumstances, the parents let the boy and the girl meet and try to get to know each other. The arrangement results in a marriage if and only if both the boy and the girl give consent, the parents don't force their children to get married, everything happens voluntarily.

I guess love marriages are slowly becoming the norm, these marriages are in no way foolproof though and the love can quickly die if you can't adapt to living with another person as husband and wife. Some parents make their children's lives even harder and try to gain control over the young couple which results in the escalation of problems. Financial problems also play an important role in the dissolution of a marriage. IMHO it all boils down to how the spouses treat each other and if they can learn to tolerate their differences.

xi0 · Apr 7, 2013

Miyagi said:
Many parents, especially mothers, try to set up their children with potential spouses when they're of age, they want to see their children get married and have kids, such arrangements are probably as common as love marriages here. Under normal circumstances, the parents let the boy and the girl meet and try to get to know each other. The arrangement results in a marriage if and only if both the boy and the girl give consent, the parents don't force their children to get married, everything happens voluntarily.

Like I said before, this isn't any different than being set up on a date through your parents. Just with a lot more structure to it. At least they have a say in it.

[pat]Oh, yep, I meant to agree with you. :sweat

[/pat]

M3J · Apr 7, 2013

earthforge said:
And then what you write is a saga of how if you divorce in Indian culture, then you are "broken goods" sotospeak. That is incredibly wrong and antiquated. Family also has a duty to support you. If they abandon you to service themselves with their ideal of "culture", without trying to compromise, then fuck them.

We agree here. :verily

My way of thinking is more western, modern, and more respectful towards women, whereas older generations aren't as respectful. My aunts, her daughter who's much older than I, and my mom all think women should be subservient to their men and wait on them, hence why I should choose a brownie. They think a black or white woman will run away or won't do as I ask. You do not know how much I disagree with that, and how much I voiced it.

BUT NO, YOU'D THINK THEY'D UNDERSTAND HOW A WOMAN WOULD FEEL. BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. :arf

I think I'll just marry a white pornstar just to spite my family.

After I'm rich enough to afford condoms. :cookiestare

My mom's side of the family has a similar view of women. They treated my mom very badly, but then resented my dad for treating her well for the first time. They still resent how my parents have a very stable marriage in comparison to all of them (two of my uncles had ugly divorced, my grandfather is on wife #3, etc.) You know how we deal with it? We never talk with them, because they seek to destroy out of envy.

Hmm. I now have more questions about your mom's side of the family.

I agree. But the concept of arranged marriage stresses the inequality of women and men.

I agree so much. It's another reason why I hate my own culture - even without involving marriage the inequality is apparent. Though I guess women now have a choice in marriage as well.

That's the culture's fault because they view unmarried women as broken goods. It is in turn the family's fault for refusing to consider a realistic system that considers failure as the woman's fault.

Yes. even when it's obvious that's the man's fault.

Neither are yours. Both are based on anecdotes.

I'm not just sharing anecdotes though.

naruto-niichan said:
wtf are you talking about Milly? I only know "Das Eis brechen (to break the ice)" as a german saying here, which means getting to know each other better/to close the emotional distance between two people. I doubt you mean that though....

Nothing, you're too dumb to understand.

Naomi · Apr 7, 2013

M3J said:
Be happy you're not a brown woman or living in Middle East, Pakistan, or India. Appreciate the freedom you have, and the fact that you won't be judged for everything you do. And that in America, and in your culture, you're more likely to get justice if a man ever treats you like shit.

Wow. Don't tell me what to be thankful for. And it's ironic that you tell me to be thankful for not being judged as you judge me. I appreciate the advice, jerk.

M3J · Apr 7, 2013

Where did I judge you? Anyway, you misunderstood what I was trying to get across since I worded it wrong. Wasn't trying to tell you to be thankful, but what the women in those cultures lack.

Didn't know you'd get so uptight about it though. Not shocked though.

Naomi · Apr 7, 2013

Aiight.

xi0 · Apr 7, 2013

M3J said:
Where did I judge you? Anyway, you misunderstood what I was trying to get across since I worded it wrong. Wasn't trying to tell you to be thankful, but what the women in those cultures lack.

Didn't know you'd get so uptight about it though. Not shocked though.

Her point is you're telling her not to be judgmental about her opinions when you're being judgmental yourself. You said her opinions aren't based on facts, but neither are yours. Anecdotes aren't facts. Your opinion is based on your life experiences, just like hers are. And to be honest, you both seem to agree on most things.

But in a topic of this kind of controversy, I'm not sure how you can't be seen as being judgmental by SOMEONE even if it isn't your intention. Me calling arranged marriage "weird" would probably offend someone. Oh well, tough shit.

M3J · Apr 7, 2013

Oh. The opinions not being based on fact isn't the problem here, otherwise I'm being a hypocrite as most of the things I've said weren't facts either. I just had a problem with the severe negative view, but I have problem with any biased views anyway, whether it's for or against something.

Opinions tend to be judgmental though. Humans are quite judgmental.

xi0 · Apr 7, 2013

M3J said:
Oh. The opinions not being based on fact isn't the problem here, otherwise I'm being a hypocrite as most of the things I've said weren't facts either. I just had a problem with the severe negative view, but I have problem with any biased views anyway, whether it's for or against something.

Opinions tend to be judgmental though. Humans are quite judgmental.

Everyone's views are biased. That's why they're also called opinions. :cookiestare

So then everyone should be indifferent to everything? GG :verily

Naomi · Apr 7, 2013

If you have a problem with me or my opinions, Milly just PM over it. I'm sick of talking about it here.

M3J · Apr 7, 2013

xi0 said:
Everyone's views are biased. That's why they're also called opinions.

So then everyone should be indifferent to everything? GG

I know.

I did not say that nor meant to imply that. D: I'm just saying, people should be less biased when talking.

Which is why Minato fans tend to piss me off. At least two in Naruto section dickride him every time, evne when he's not involved. Or when people jumped on me for calling Luffy weak when I in no way didn't.

Or those HxH fans who got defensive. :derp

On April Fool. :derp

Naomidee said:
If you have a problem with me or my opinions, Milly just PM over it. I'm sick of talking about it here.

I don't have a problem with you at all or your opinions, other than what I mentioned above. Even then, it's quite unfair of me, I guess I got too defensive about something that I don't even freakin' like or support. <_<

Anyway, I realized how I was coming across. Not my intention to be a douchebag or act like a know-it-all.