Discussion The Official Relationship/Pairing/Shipping Thread

[Axiomus]

There is none, literally none romantic moments between Na and Lu. None. Natsu being attached to Lucy for me looks like a feeling that (sorry, but Natsu being insanely strong and cool, is dumb like a brick) innocent and dumb kid has to someone that happens to be around him lot of time. There is no love involved, or at least certainly wasn't before author decided: "damn, I should make those 2 a couple. Now how to.... SHOW HIM BOOBS!"

I take everything into consideration. Past has a lot of importance. And on this basis, even NaLi, with Lisanna being utterly trashed and irrelevant character, has better relationship foundation than NaLu. Because it would not be forced, it dates back to their past.

If you want to call it hate, whatever, let it be that way. Valid arguments for NaLu are welcome though.
Because it's not hate. I hate only one shipping in anime/manga I've ever got through and it is pure hate and despise. Sasusaku, Naruto, being worst ship ever. NaLu ridicule is not nearly close to making me so angry.

I fail to see how NaLI has a stronger foundation than NaLu. There is only 1 moment of Natsu and Lisanna's childhood in the entire manga. It was Lisanna joking about how she could become Natsu's bride when they grow up. There was no promise or anything like that, and Lisanna's character isn't mentioned anywhere else except for Mirajane's back story. If NaLi were to become canon right now it would be extremely forced.

Spoiler: Lisanna's childhood interaction with Natsu

Natsu and Lucy have moments of genuine bonding. These are all moments that can easily be interpreted in a romantic fashion. Or at the very least, a lot more meaningful than kids teasing each other.

Spoiler: Lucy thinking that Natsu looks cute when he's asleep

Spoiler: Lucy calling Natsu's name in her sleep

Spoiler: Lucy hugging Natsu for comfort

.

BUt there's no indication that Natsu does like Lucy like that. What he's done for her, he's done for Erza and others as well. The only thing he hasn't done to others is sexually harass them, I mean, as far as we know, Natsu is completely asexual.

But Axiomus, you basically summed up why Lucy would have feelings for Natsu, if not fondness. After all this, it's not hard to believe why she'd fall in love with him, if not be closer to him out of everyone in FT.

Natsu is willing to fight for anyone in the guild. So I have no doubt that he would fight for Erza to save her life. He would do that for just about anyone in the guild. However, Natsu spends time with Lucy outside of missions and he doesn't really do that for Erza. He doesn't really go around trying to cheer Erza up by uprooting the town's sakura tree, or waits at her house waiting for her to come home. It's the times that Natsu spends outside of combat and life threatening situations that differentiates how Natsu treats Lucy and how he treats Erza.

Spoiler: At home

Spoiler: Playing at the guild

 

[Pheromone]

I think it's safe to say that Lucy probably isn't falling for Natsu because of his looks or anything. Natsu's never been established as being particularly handsome.

mfw I read this

I don't care what anyone says, Natsu's always been super attractive to me.

 

[Axiomus]

mfw I read this

I don't what anyone says, Natsu's always been super attractive to me.

I meant within the Fairy Tail world, not IRL tastes.

 

[Schpittfeuer]

And so last question: what constitutes as romance for you? You have already exampled Jerza as good. You also spoke of the one Nali flashback as basically (me paraphrasing) a jumping stone for a Natsu to have a relationship. You have also danced around labeling moments as romantic vs friendship vs fanservice. And that one sided love is not good even though early Gruvia and Nali were both depicted from Juvia and Lisanna's perspective more than Gray or Natsu you had little to no interests beyond close friendship.

I don't really care about Gruvia, they are just kinda there, one sided crush that author will make canon, if Gray developed feelings to her- cool, at least it is not forced down my throat via fanservice and I have to appreciate that.

[/spoiler]
Natsu and Lucy have moments of genuine bonding.
None that would show real love or romantism.

These are all moments that can easily be interpreted in a romantic fashion. Or at the very least, a lot more meaningful than kids teasing each other.
These are all moments that can easily be interpreted as friendship-crush. I have impression that you mistake love and crush. What is more of romantic moment, "HAHA I saw her boobs" or nearly kiss of two people loving each other in situation that literally could be a date? What does show true love more? Which one should be considered as closer to actual relationship?

Spoiler: Lucy thinking that Natsu looks cute when he's asleep

pic

Where is romantism in this? Or sign of love? Literally none.

Spoiler: Lucy calling Natsu's name in her sleep

pic

At best it is one sided crush. It is not romantic situation, it is not love. Or just teammate cheering, being extremely tired.

Spoiler: Lucy hugging Natsu for comfort

pic

.

Now this one would actually be great and romantic moment. But.
1.It is not mutual (natsu's lack of deep feelings)
2.It was not developed before (it's just one moment in sea of nothingness)


Natsu is willing to fight for anyone in the guild. So I have no doubt that he would fight for Erza to save her life. He would do that for just about anyone in the guild. However, Natsu spends time with Lucy outside of missions and he doesn't really do that for Erza.
Because he happened to find perfect person for playing pranks (a part of his weird and tbh shallow personality) on?
Because she literally allows him to do whatever he wants
As I explained before, like dumb kid that finds person that wants to spend time with them. He feels attached.
1 chance to guess why he doesn't sneak up in Erza's room. Or Gray's.
Because it would end in bothersome situation (vs Gray- fight, vs Erza- serious ass whooping). And Lucy is easily tricked fanservice lady. Perfect.


I guess Natsu's inability to express or SHOW deeper emotions is big part of my NaLu bashing. In whole series nothing that could be considered as love appeared between Lu and Na. And definitely No-bloody-thing from Na side.





He doesn't really go around trying to cheer Erza up by uprooting the town's sakura tree, or waits at her house waiting for her to come home. It's the times that Natsu spends outside of combat and life threatening situations that differentiates how Natsu treats Lucy and how he treats Erza.
Because Erza is strong and (for Natsu) intimidating woman. And he'd know she doesn't need shit like this to feel better. And he's afraid of her. Choose freely.
Plus we had that moment of "don't ever throw your life away" in ToH, you know with everyone being "feely", carrying Erza in hands...
According to NaLu argumentation (aka trying to push every moment together as sign of love) I am henceforward starting "Narza" ship.
Why am I not gonna do this for real? Because that's the insane NAKAMA bond Natsu feels with her. This is friendship. This is insane, life-on-the-stake level of friendship. Nothing more. No romance behind, no sign of love (in "relationship" meaning). Sisterly-brotherly love? sure.


Ship is unreasonable when there is no love. There is no love when there is no strong foundation (both sides). And NaLu did barely have anything to call it love yet.

And lastly, this post would be 3x longer and more specific if not accidental deletion of literally whole content, so I had to write it from scratch, but shortened. I have to work tomorrow and cannot spend another 30 min writing post arguing over lack of romantism between characters that aren't real.
Sorry for that. Though you'd probably not read it anyway

--- Double Post Merged, May 8, 2017, Original Post Date: May 8, 2017 ---

mfw I read this

I don't care what anyone says, Natsu's always been super attractive to me.

Natsu is cool, but it is not about personal views on character. In manga or anime there was no "oh man he's so handsome" build up, And that's the point

 

[M3J]

I fail to see how NaLI has a stronger foundation than NaLu. There is only 1 moment of Natsu and Lisanna's childhood in the entire manga. It was Lisanna joking about how she could become Natsu's bride when they grow up. There was no promise or anything like that, and Lisanna's character isn't mentioned anywhere else except for Mirajane's back story. If NaLi were to become canon right now it would be extremely forced.

Spoiler: Lisanna's childhood interaction with Natsu

Natsu and Lucy have moments of genuine bonding. These are all moments that can easily be interpreted in a romantic fashion. Or at the very least, a lot more meaningful than kids teasing each other.

Spoiler: Lucy thinking that Natsu looks cute when he's asleep

Spoiler: Lucy calling Natsu's name in her sleep

Spoiler: Lucy hugging Natsu for comfort

.



Natsu is willing to fight for anyone in the guild. So I have no doubt that he would fight for Erza to save her life. He would do that for just about anyone in the guild. However, Natsu spends time with Lucy outside of missions and he doesn't really do that for Erza. He doesn't really go around trying to cheer Erza up by uprooting the town's sakura tree, or waits at her house waiting for her to come home. It's the times that Natsu spends outside of combat and life threatening situations that differentiates how Natsu treats Lucy and how he treats Erza.

Spoiler: At home

Spoiler: Playing at the guild

WEll, he likely spends more time with Lucy because she's more open and inviting than Erza. Natsu does fear Erza to a degree and likely wouldn't feel as comfortable spending time with her.

In any case, have we seen them spend time in the actual story, or just cover pages and omakes? I only remember Natsu and Happy spending time with each other, with Natsu mainly breaking into Lucy's house or hanging out with her at the guild.

 

[Axiomus]

@Schpittfeuer

Spoiler: That is what we call love

Again, chapter 532 confirmed all the major pairings as forms of love. It's pretty obvious that Lucy has feelings for Natsu. You can say it's a one sided crush on Lucy's part, but that doesn't change the fact that these feelings are still defined as love by the author. Natsu might be a bit dense, but it's not like he's completely oblivious on the subject. How is their situation much different than Levy's feelings for Gajeel during the Tenrou-arc?

Spoiler: An example of Lucy's feelings showing through

WEll, he likely spends more time with Lucy because she's more open and inviting than Erza. Natsu does fear Erza to a degree and likely wouldn't feel as comfortable spending time with her.

In any case, have we seen them spend time in the actual story, or just cover pages and omakes? I only remember Natsu and Happy spending time with each other, with Natsu mainly breaking into Lucy's house or hanging out with her at the guild.

This shouldn't stop Natsu from spending time with Erza if he really wanted to. If anything, he should be attracted to the prospect of sparring with her. Omakes that fit the timeline are canon. We don't regularly focus on regular missions and day to day activities, because the plot isn't focused on it. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

 

[Globear]

NaLu? What relationship, Globsy... Its just nudity, awkward situations and fanservice, no foundations, no real feelings at all. Most forced ship in this series, which is even worse because it's 2 MCs...

Musings that is truth although have they become closer and had increasingly more romanticish moments?
Perhaps +.+
So yes they have been developed but it's hard to ignore that there is a bit of iffyness

I like the pair, but this is 100% true. Not only that, but people are actually okay with the sexual harassment. It makes sense that Lucy has feelings for Natsu, but Natsu has shown nothing out of the ordinary for Lucy, and fans think there's development or it's canon.

I mean stone age for example, that was toooooo far in my onion anyway

 

[Globear]

The Stone Age omake was all kinds of wrong. Natsu saw Lucy as a object in the Stone Age omake and the Stone Age omake was disgusting.

Yeah =.=

I mean, some class Mashima please =.=

 

[Boomburst]

The Stone Age omake was all kinds of wrong. Natsu saw Lucy as a object in the Stone Age omake and the Stone Age omake was disgusting.

Yeah =.=

I mean, some class Mashima please =.=

I mean...the story was set in prehistoric times, so is Natsu regarding Lucy that way really that ridiculous? And the whole thing wasn't meant to be anything more than mindless fanservice anyways. I'm genuinely surprised there are actually people who take it so seriously

 

[Globear]

I mean...the story was set in prehistoric times, so is Natsu regarding Lucy that way really that ridiculous? And the whole thing wasn't meant to be anything more than mindless fanservice anyways. I'm genuinely surprised there are actually people who take it so seriously

I wouldnt say its ridiculous it is at least a little contextually correct it just comes across a little icky personally anyways +.+

 

[Raven]

@Schpittfeuer
I'm actually a little confused. Do you have a problem nalu because they lack romance? Or because their bond is forced? Or is it because of their characters? Such as you don't like Lucy (or what has become of her character) therefore you don't like Nalu. Or do you find they have better connections with other people?

He have problem with Nalu because he ship Nali and a Lissana fan. Most of Lissana fans thinks Lucy took her place despite that the fact she was only a device to develop Natsu plus many of their moments didn't exist in the manga not to mention that Mashima brought her to the story because of his friend's request. Lissana now is limited to staruss family only she never bothered to think about Natsu or worry about him in times of war like Lucy in this arc.
*

Nalu is better than any ship not because of their fan service but because of their strong bond that they share. Both rely on eachother and care for eachother more than anyone throughout 534 chapters. They have reasons to be a couple, If i were Lucy i would pick Natsu as my husband over than anyone because of the beautiful bond between us. Actually saying that Nalu is forced means your biased against it blinded your enough not to see it coming.

 

[M3J]

@Schpittfeuer

Spoiler: That is what we call love

Again, chapter 532 confirmed all the major pairings as forms of love. It's pretty obvious that Lucy has feelings for Natsu. You can say it's a one sided crush on Lucy's part, but that doesn't change the fact that these feelings are still defined as love by the author. Natsu might be a bit dense, but it's not like he's completely oblivious on the subject. How is their situation much different than Levy's feelings for Gajeel during the Tenrou-arc?

Spoiler: An example of Lucy's feelings showing through

This shouldn't stop Natsu from spending time with Erza if he really wanted to. If anything, he should be attracted to the prospect of sparring with her. Omakes that fit the timeline are canon. We don't regularly focus on regular missions and day to day activities, because the plot isn't focused on it. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

It actually would, especially when Lucy is far too passive and lets Natsu do whatever he wants. And we do see some parts of regular missions and day to day activities, and most of the time it's Natsu with Happy or in the guild with others. The main time he's with Lucy is when he breaks into her home, which she does not like.

Yeah =.=

I mean, some class Mashima please =.=

Mashima made it obvious he has no class when he made a loli dress up like a domantrix or something. <__<

 

[Axiomus]

It actually would, especially when Lucy is far too passive and lets Natsu do whatever he wants. And we do see some parts of regular missions and day to day activities, and most of the time it's Natsu with Happy or in the guild with others. The main time he's with Lucy is when he breaks into her home, which she does not like.

If Natsu really wanted to spend time with Erza, he would do it. It's not like Erza is going to bite his head off for wanting to spend time together. We don't really see them going on regular missions in the main story. We know that Natsu, Happy, and Lucy are a team. I think Lucy goes on most of her missions with Natsu and Happy. Natsu and Happy might go on a few solo missions here and there.

Spoiler: A bunch of examples

Spoiler: Lucy was happy that Natsu finally felt like going on missions again after the Harvest Festival.

Spoiler: They went on a mission after Lucy's father's death.

Spoiler: Erza happened upon them when she was playing superhero

Spoiler: They went on a mission together during Day of Fateful encounter

Spoiler: They were separated on a mission in the Rave Omake

Spoiler: They worked again as a team in the pre-movie omake

Spoiler: And of course, my personal favorite. I don't know if this was on a mission or not, but they must have found the time to just fall asleep beside eachother

 

[Crescent Jinx]

I don't really care about Gruvia, they are just kinda there, one sided crush that author will make canon, if Gray developed feelings to her- cool, at least it is not forced down my throat via fanservice and I have to appreciate that.


Natsu and Lucy have moments of genuine bonding.
None that would show real love or romantism.

These are all moments that can easily be interpreted in a romantic fashion. Or at the very least, a lot more meaningful than kids teasing each other.
These are all moments that can easily be interpreted as friendship-crush. I have impression that you mistake love and crush. What is more of romantic moment, "HAHA I saw her boobs" or nearly kiss of two people loving each other in situation that literally could be a date? What does show true love more? Which one should be considered as closer to actual relationship?


pic
Where is romantism in this? Or sign of love? Literally none.

pic
At best it is one sided crush. It is not romantic situation, it is not love. Or just teammate cheering, being extremely tired.

pic
.

Now this one would actually be great and romantic moment. But.
1.It is not mutual (natsu's lack of deep feelings)
2.It was not developed before (it's just one moment in sea of nothingness)


Natsu is willing to fight for anyone in the guild. So I have no doubt that he would fight for Erza to save her life. He would do that for just about anyone in the guild. However, Natsu spends time with Lucy outside of missions and he doesn't really do that for Erza.
Because he happened to find perfect person for playing pranks (a part of his weird and tbh shallow personality) on?
Because she literally allows him to do whatever he wants
As I explained before, like dumb kid that finds person that wants to spend time with them. He feels attached.
1 chance to guess why he doesn't sneak up in Erza's room. Or Gray's.
Because it would end in bothersome situation (vs Gray- fight, vs Erza- serious ass whooping). And Lucy is easily tricked fanservice lady. Perfect.


I guess Natsu's inability to express or SHOW deeper emotions is big part of my NaLu bashing. In whole series nothing that could be considered as love appeared between Lu and Na. And definitely No-bloody-thing from Na side.





He doesn't really go around trying to cheer Erza up by uprooting the town's sakura tree, or waits at her house waiting for her to come home. It's the times that Natsu spends outside of combat and life threatening situations that differentiates how Natsu treats Lucy and how he treats Erza.
Because Erza is strong and (for Natsu) intimidating woman. And he'd know she doesn't need shit like this to feel better. And he's afraid of her. Choose freely.
Plus we had that moment of "don't ever throw your life away" in ToH, you know with everyone being "feely", carrying Erza in hands...
According to NaLu argumentation (aka trying to push every moment together as sign of love) I am henceforward starting "Narza" ship.
Why am I not gonna do this for real? Because that's the insane NAKAMA bond Natsu feels with her. This is friendship. This is insane, life-on-the-stake level of friendship. Nothing more. No romance behind, no sign of love (in "relationship" meaning). Sisterly-brotherly love? sure.


Ship is unreasonable when there is no love. There is no love when there is no strong foundation (both sides). And NaLu did barely have anything to call it love yet.

And lastly, this post would be 3x longer and more specific if not accidental deletion of literally whole content, so I had to write it from scratch, but shortened. I have to work tomorrow and cannot spend another 30 min writing post arguing over lack of romantism between characters that aren't real.



Natsu is cool, but it is not about personal views on character. In manga or anime there was no "oh man he's so handsome" build up, And that's the point

Sorry to have to probe you so much. But I was trying to find what you thought as oppose to general comments that have been circulating the fandom for 9+ years.

Going to spoil this so I don't spam

Spoiler

I can't really see these pictures. I know which one you are talking about for the first one. Where Lucy was saying Natsu was cute while he was sleeping.and then she got punched.

Teammate cheering? Not sure about the other one either?

First before arguing anything. I want to just point out this is a relationship created by Mashima. Who had a boy bang a girl in a 12 year old boy after like 3 meetings. So Mashima might not be the most logical guy when it comes to romance. He also had Elle and Haru become canon by Julia stripping Elle (taking off her bra) at a party to get Haru to confess. Then he had Musica and Reina become somewhat canonish by her dying.

It has been established in the manga repeatedly that Lucy cares for Natsu more than a friend.

Now you have pointed this out with the "at best it is a one sided crush."

I can totally see this. It has been my case for most of the series that Lucy has had a crush on Natsu. The problem with the ship is him. He's not completely tsundere to her affections. Plus they are best friends. He is just kind of there, receiving them without encouraging them.

Thus the issue comes from his lack of acting romantic. So scenes like this are really...

Just pure friendship....

Now Lucy on the other hand has shown more than that. Jealousy is not a friendly emotion. It is a possessive emotion because if you are "just friends" there is no reason for you to get jeaous over your friend looking someone else over.

Lucy has also shown to be more worried about Natsu than other teammates. Like in Edolas, Lucy did not check on Wendy the 12 year old, she ran to Natsu while Gray went to Wendy.

To which in Alvarez, Happy even had to remind her about Juvia and Gray. Sorry Graylu fans.

Lucy rubbing Natsu's back and not Wendy's.

Lucy was unhappy with Natsu for leaving her.

Also she was more depressed by Natsu leaving than other people leaving like Gray and Juvia who also left. And even the guild breaking up did not inspire this level of reaction.

I personally prefer these type of moments that are small, which hint at romance as oppose to over the top displays of affection that lack real romantic feelings.


Now stuff like this is fan service

Now you are completely right about Natsu (or Mashima dropping the ball from Natsu's end).

As for Natsu.....
We don't have many blantly romantic moments for him. The closest moments are things like this...

This moment that was a Natsu intitiated touch to calm Lucy. Could this be friendship? Maybe. Does it lean toward more romance? Maybe. The fact is that Natsu goes out of his way by petting her head (and this wasn't a fanservice moment either). She was questioning why he had not told her about Future Rogue and Gray.

Also this hug from Gmg is lost easily in Mashima's drawings. But it is clear that is Natsu initiated. Everyone is celebrating. And Natsu throws an arm around her to cheer. That is inclusion. Is it friendship? Maybe. Also noted is the only other person doing something like this is Bisca who has an arm around Alzack's.

Also Natsu truly enjoys being around Lucy. As shown when he formed a team with her.

Probably because she jumped out of a cave for him

Honestly Mashima had a good reason for them to be partners. Natsu inviting her to the guild and then (taking responsibility in looking after her) but Mashima never explained it that way. And I (as a Nalu fan) admit that.

The biggest Natsu moment was him giving her his cloak

We don't know why he gave it. We don't even know if she asked for it. We just know that he did not give it to Gray or Erza who were both barely covered.

And we know that in Rescue Macow arc, he did not want her to take his blanket.

I also believe the cherry blossom tree was meant to be taken romantically by Mashima.

Natsu was the one who remembered their fated day.

Speaking of Lucy getting her guildmark. In chapter 2 he acted like he didn't care

but really he was totally aware of Lucy getting her guild mark.

Natsu also kept Lucy's maid costume and made special momentos of his moments with Lucy.

For Natsu to make notes like this. He would have to really find these moments special. Lucy's face clearly says it is something special which is why she cleaned his house.

Thus the main problem I have with Nalu is that Mashima portrays them really caring and cute one second but then kind of comedy/shallowish the next.
Look at this.

This panel from GMG does not really scream romance.

There could be feelings, but Natsu would want to save any friend more than he would want to fight. And also Lucy herself is blushing, but she is doing it in a more "I'm acting trying to poke fun at you way."

Mashima's inconsistency
He has perfect moments he could build on, but he doesn't. Another problem with Nalu is that a lot of good moments are Lucy initiated and we either do not get Natsu's reaction or we have a lack of reaction from Natsu. Which I guess could be tied back into the fact we do not get any building on these moments. SO I will have to agree with you. They get a lot of fanservice moments. They also get a lot of close friendship moments that get taken out of context by fans.

^Moments like this scream romance. And not in that cure "childish crush/playmate" way.

We just have the ball being dropped. Mashima had the perfect opportunity to build from this moment, but Natsu lost his memory of. We have no building of his thoughts and feelings from Lucy "dying." And it was not an issue that got brought up in "Natsu's heart." Mashima does this every arc. Even this arc which is suppose to be the arc Mashima is writing them as "more than friends and less than lovers but it is the same moments (moments initiated by Lucy, fanservice, Lucy worrying over him, reverse back hug, Natsu worried about Lucy) that is shown every arc.

So my argument is not that they don't have romance. You just have pollution of the moments with so many moments that are based for other reasons than showing their bond like the fanservice, the friendship moments, the crushy stuff, Lucy blushing at him.

So mostly as a Nalu shipper, I wait to get Natsu's POV on this.

 

[Star Frost]

Sorry to have to probe you so much. But I was trying to find what you thought as oppose to general comments that have been circulating the fandom for 9+ years.

Going to spoil this so I don't spam

Spoiler

I can't really see these pictures. I know which one you are talking about for the first one. Where Lucy was saying Natsu was cute while he was sleeping.and then she got punched.

Teammate cheering? Not sure about the other one either?

First before arguing anything. I want to just point out this is a relationship created by Mashima. Who had a boy bang a girl in a 12 year old boy after like 3 meetings. So Mashima might not be the most logical guy when it comes to romance. He also had Elle and Haru become canon by Julia stripping Elle (taking off her bra) at a party to get Haru to confess. Then he had Musica and Reina become somewhat canonish by her dying.

It has been established in the manga repeatedly that Lucy cares for Natsu more than a friend.

Now you have pointed this out with the "at best it is a one sided crush."

I can totally see this. It has been my case for most of the series that Lucy has had a crush on Natsu. The problem with the ship is him. He's not completely tsundere to her affections. Plus they are best friends. He is just kind of there, receiving them without encouraging them.

Thus the issue comes from his lack of acting romantic. So scenes like this are really...

Just pure friendship....

Now Lucy on the other hand has shown more than that. Jealousy is not a friendly emotion. It is a possessive emotion because if you are "just friends" there is no reason for you to get jeaous over your friend looking someone else over.

Lucy has also shown to be more worried about Natsu than other teammates. Like in Edolas, Lucy did not check on Wendy the 12 year old, she ran to Natsu while Gray went to Wendy.

To which in Alvarez, Happy even had to remind her about Juvia and Gray. Sorry Graylu fans.

Lucy rubbing Natsu's back and not Wendy's.

Lucy was unhappy with Natsu for leaving her.

Also she was more depressed by Natsu leaving than other people leaving like Gray and Juvia who also left. And even the guild breaking up did not inspire this level of reaction.

I personally prefer these type of moments that are small, which hint at romance as oppose to over the top displays of affection that lack real romantic feelings.


Now stuff like this is fan service

Now you are completely right about Natsu (or Mashima dropping the ball from Natsu's end).

As for Natsu.....
We don't have many blantly romantic moments for him. The closest moments are things like this...

This moment that was a Natsu intitiated touch to calm Lucy. Could this be friendship? Maybe. Does it lean toward more romance? Maybe. The fact is that Natsu goes out of his way by petting her head (and this wasn't a fanservice moment either). She was questioning why he had not told her about Future Rogue and Gray.

Also this hug from Gmg is lost easily in Mashima's drawings. But it is clear that is Natsu initiated. Everyone is celebrating. And Natsu throws an arm around her to cheer. That is inclusion. Is it friendship? Maybe. Also noted is the only other person doing something like this is Bisca who has an arm around Alzack's.

Also Natsu truly enjoys being around Lucy. As shown when he formed a team with her.

Probably because she jumped out of a cave for him

Honestly Mashima had a good reason for them to be partners. Natsu inviting her to the guild and then (taking responsibility in looking after her) but Mashima never explained it that way. And I (as a Nalu fan) admit that.

The biggest Natsu moment was him giving her his cloak

We don't know why he gave it. We don't even know if she asked for it. We just know that he did not give it to Gray or Erza who were both barely covered.

And we know that in Rescue Macow arc, he did not want her to take his blanket.

I also believe the cherry blossom tree was meant to be taken romantically by Mashima.

Natsu was the one who remembered their fated day.

Speaking of Lucy getting her guildmark. In chapter 2 he acted like he didn't care

but really he was totally aware of Lucy getting her guild mark.

Natsu also kept Lucy's maid costume and made special momentos of his moments with Lucy.

For Natsu to make notes like this. He would have to really find these moments special. Lucy's face clearly says it is something special which is why she cleaned his house.

Thus the main problem I have with Nalu is that Mashima portrays them really caring and cute one second but then kind of comedy/shallowish the next.
Look at this.

This panel from GMG does not really scream romance.

There could be feelings, but Natsu would want to save any friend more than he would want to fight. And also Lucy herself is blushing, but she is doing it in a more "I'm acting trying to poke fun at you way."

Mashima's inconsistency
He has perfect moments he could build on, but he doesn't. Another problem with Nalu is that a lot of good moments are Lucy initiated and we either do not get Natsu's reaction or we have a lack of reaction from Natsu. Which I guess could be tied back into the fact we do not get any building on these moments. SO I will have to agree with you. They get a lot of fanservice moments. They also get a lot of close friendship moments that get taken out of context by fans.

^Moments like this scream romance. And not in that cure "childish crush/playmate" way.

We just have the ball being dropped. Mashima had the perfect opportunity to build from this moment, but Natsu lost his memory of. We have no building of his thoughts and feelings from Lucy "dying." And it was not an issue that got brought up in "Natsu's heart." Mashima does this every arc. Even this arc which is suppose to be the arc Mashima is writing them as "more than friends and less than lovers but it is the same moments (moments initiated by Lucy, fanservice, Lucy worrying over him, reverse back hug, Natsu worried about Lucy) that is shown every arc.

So my argument is not that they don't have romance. You just have pollution of the moments with so many moments that are based for other reasons than showing their bond like the fanservice, the friendship moments, the crushy stuff, Lucy blushing at him.

So mostly as a Nalu shipper, I wait to get Natsu's POV on this.

What about the first FT movie based on the interviews from both Mashima and the director:

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Crescent Jinx]

What about the first FT movie based on the interviews from both Mashima and the director:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Thanks for the this.

I thought about this but could not remember where it came from (whether I had imagine it or if it was real). I was also taking more from manga examples (even tho I included the omakes).

Natsu's feelings aren't super addressed in the manga but he is always paying attention to Lucy. That's actually something shared by all of Mashima's male characters. They are very aware of the feelings of their ship queen and not so aware of everything else's around them.

I think that's an issue for shonen in general.

So I think that's why we get heavy girl "likes guy" but guy doesn't acknowledge girl until later in shonen. Or guy likes girl and shows it through small actions while girl makes over dramatic actions.

I mean they have two holidays that depict this - Valentine's day and White day. Valentine's day where girls give the guy chocolate and then the guy replies by giving a gift on White day.

So some of the problem with people's outlook on Nalu being "just friends" might be the culture barrier. And that's with Gruvia too. Even Erza was established to have feelings for Jellal back when he was "evil."

Naruto like Sakura but the ships that won in the end were the ones chosen by the female. Hinata like Naruto. Sakura liked Sasuke.

Orihime liked Ichigo.

Keiko like Yusuke. Even tho he had a growing friendship with Botan.

Kagome liked Inuyasha even tho he was more in love with Kikyo.

Kaoru fell for Kenshin. Then him for her.

Even harem based anime/manga. One guy with many girls. He usually gets with the girl who loves him the most as oppose to the one he fits the best with.

 

[darkenedreality]

Chapter 532 basically confirmed all the major ships as being some form of love.

Gruvia's is romantic, literally confirmed by Hiro:

Translation: "Autumn of romantic love"

Spoiler

 

[(⌐■_■)]

The lack of faith in Nalu disgusts me

Here's some nalu fan appreciation to cleanse you're soul

Spoiler

 

[Schpittfeuer]

He have problem with Nalu because he ship Nali and a Lissana fan. Most of Lissana fans thinks Lucy took her place despite that the fact she was only a device to develop Natsu plus many of their moments didn't exist in the manga not to mention that Mashima brought her to the story because of his friend's request. Lissana now is limited to staruss family only she never bothered to think about Natsu or worry about him in times of war like Lucy in this arc.
*

That was not nice at all, why would you do this?

I don't ship NaLi, I am not lisanna fan. This coming from you was unfair and plain bullshit and manipulation.

But I have stated it clearly before, that's the end of NaLi discussion for me, et up to date please and read previous posts.
Unfair
bullshit.

Nalu is better than any ship not because of their fan service but because of their strong bond that they share. Both rely on eachother and care for eachother more than anyone throughout 534 chapters. They have reasons to be a couple, If i were Lucy i would pick Natsu as my husband over than anyone because of the beautiful bond between us.

Na lu is not better than any ship nor their bond is exceptionally strong. It's Lucy who rely on Natsu, with him being all about Nakama, "I won't let you hurm my friends" and inability to express deep emotions in a more elaborate way than "I'm fired up".

Actually saying that Nalu is forced means your biased against it blinded your enough not to see it coming.

Actually saying such line clearly says that you are so deep in NaLu fandom that it's beyond any discussion. Means- biased. Because again, you are not up to date, I never said NaLu won't happen but apparently getting up-to-date by reading WHOLE discussion is too much?
It's better to randomly jump in, throw some accusations and expect rest of NaLu fandom to jump on "bash him" bandwagon.


Seriously, what happened I really thought we are on good terms, but suddenly you start spouting plain lies about me (NaLi fan, Lisanna fan, biased, dont listen to him) and manipulate. I never ever could see that coming. But let it be this way.

Sorry to have to probe you so much. But I was trying to find what you thought as oppose to general comments that have been circulating the fandom for 9+ years.

Going to spoil this so I don't spam

Spoiler

I can't really see these pictures. I know which one you are talking about for the first one. Where Lucy was saying Natsu was cute while he was sleeping.and then she got punched.

Teammate cheering? Not sure about the other one either?

First before arguing anything. I want to just point out this is a relationship created by Mashima. Who had a boy bang a girl in a 12 year old boy after like 3 meetings. So Mashima might not be the most logical guy when it comes to romance.
And he most definitely isn't. But see the simple difference between forcing NaLu on us and presenting the relation that Erza and Jellal have. You don't need to search for specific panel when they appear together, unlike NaLu (you do have whole folder called "NaLu" on your desktop, don't you ). Their love is so obvious, plus they share tragic past, plus the relationship was developing since childchood. Now that is strong foundation, would you agree?





Now you have pointed this out with the "at best it is a one sided crush."

The problem with the ship is him.
That's exactly what I have.
I may agree that lucy may have feelings Natsu. But it is not love, and it is not presented right. It feels forced, because somewhere at the end Natsu will go "I always loved you", Boom, that's it. And this discussion started by someone stating that NaLu is presented better than Jerza, and that's my main point- it is not.

He is just kind of there, receiving them without encouraging them.
Thus the issue comes from his lack of acting romantic. So scenes like this are really...
Just pure friendship....
And for general lack of romantic moment between THE TWO. It's all Lucy's affection.


Now Lucy on the other hand has shown more than that. Jealousy is not a friendly emotion. It is a possessive emotion because if you are "just friends" there is no reason for you to get jeaous over your friend looking someone else over.

Oh, I'd call it "decency" not jealousy. And unfortunately for NaLu- such moment is a widely used cliche. "You can't look at naked women, you indecent pig" *covers his eyes.


Lucy has also shown to be more worried about Natsu than other teammates. Like in Edolas, Lucy did not check on Wendy the 12 year old, she ran to Natsu while Gray went to Wendy.

To which in Alvarez, Happy even had to remind her about Juvia and Gray.
Sorry Graylu fans. Lucy rubbing Natsu's back and not Wendy's.
Lucy was unhappy with Natsu for leaving her.
And with those you actually make a point, because it bugged me too when I read this. But see the problem with presenting relationship? It's all small and barely noticeable, and all coming from Lucy. It is not "romantic moment.
Unlike Jerza almost kiss by the sunset.


Also she was more depressed by Natsu leaving than other people leaving like Gray and Juvia who also left. And even the guild breaking up did not inspire this level of reaction.

I personally prefer these type of moments that are small, which hint at romance as oppose to over the top displays of affection that lack real romantic feelings.

Small, way too small for me. Make a ratio of fanservice-romantic moments that show love in NaLu. Which ones would you get more?




Now you are completely right about Natsu (or Mashima dropping the ball from Natsu's end).

Sadly.

Let me adress second half of the post after I get back from work

 

[Axiomus]

There is a lot more going for Nalu than any other pairing involving Natsu and Lucy. Like I said before, Lisanna's role in the manga is virtually nonexistent at this point, and her shippable moment within the manga amounted to a single moment of teasing that happened during childhood. Lucy is also a lot closer to Natsu than she is with any other guy, and she doesn't show the same affection that she does with Natsu to other guys.

For the record, I don't think NaLu is better than Jerza, Gruvia, or Gajevy. These are all pairings I ship, and there's no real competition between them. Nobody can deny that Jellal and Erza love each other, and Gajeel and Levy have are confirmed to have kid in the future. However, imo NaLu is right up there with these pairings in terms of its likelihood. Again, Natsu and Lucy's relationship was described as love in chapter 532. You can say that the affection is largely coming from Lucy to Natsu and that it's a one sided crush, but that doesn't change the fact that the author still calls it love.

I will say again that Lucy's reasons for falling for Natsu makes the most sense out of any of the girl's. Again, I'm not trying to criticize Jerza here. However, simply being childhood friends or having a tragic past doesn't mean anything. What actually matters is what Jellal or Erza has done to earn each other's affections. We know that Erza has feelings for Jellal, and those feelings probably originated from the fact that he stood out as a leader for the children during the Tower of Heaven. He was the one who gave her last name. Erza probably likes Jellal because at one point, he genuinely inspired her. The reason why NaLu has this going for them is because we actually get to see the moments in which they affect each other's lives play out in the manga, and it's not just off screened. You can track the moments in which Lucy genuinely becomes touched by Natsu's actions or words.

Natsu was the one who brought Lucy to the guild. When Phantom Lord tried to take Lucy away, Natsu was the one who reassured Lucy that she was at home. We saw Lucy thinking that Natsu looked kind of cool to herself in the aftermath of that battle. Now I'm not saying Lucy fell in love with Natsu right then and there during the Phantom Arc, but that was the point where they started becoming closer. Throughout the course of the series, we see Natsu continue to do more things to inspire or comfort Lucy. We even have moments of Lucy taking note of Natsu's actions like helping Asuka develop confidence. This is the reason I like NaLu. Because it isn't just fanservice. They didn't fall in love at first sight, and it's not really based on lust. Lucy's affections for Natsu are earned.

Spoiler: A bunch of examples

Spoiler: Reassuring Lucy that Fairy Tail is her home

Spoiler: Lucy thinking to herself Natsu was kind of cool

Spoiler: Inspiring Lucy when she's afraid

Spoiler: Encouraging Lucy when she's upset at losing the match

Spoiler: Natsu fighting for Lucy

Spoiler: Lucy thinking that Natsu has a good side

By the time the Tartarus Arc came around, Natsu and Lucy were very close. To the point that it's been confirmed that Natsu was the person Lucy most wanted to see after the timeskip.