The strongest marine

[firework]

1. sengoku
2. Garp
3. Kizaru (his haxed ability puts him ahead of Akainu)
4. Akainu
5. Aokiji
6. Sentoumaru/Smoker/ VA (i really want to put Smoker higher though; i think he will eventually be Admiral level+)
7. Hina
8. captains, commodores and below
9. Coby + fodder

If Magellan counts, then he'd probably be around 5.5, i actually consider his abilities to be on par with admirals

 

[Roarchu]

I don't think the VA's (besides Garp) are all that. I mean, they're really strong, but I don't think they're as strong as Lucci.

In Ennies Lobby where 5 VA's showed up Oda still gave us the vibe that Lucci was a lot more badass than them. look how they talk about Lucci http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/422/03/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/422/09/ (notice the sweat drop!)

who is a VA that is at average VA level? Like imagine Momonga or that dalmatian guy fighting 1 on 1 against Lucci. I really don't see Lucci losing. Momonga and the dalmatian guy use Rokushiki, didn't they make all this fuss about Lucci being such a great master of Rokushiki? I mean, would there have been all this hype about Lucci if his Rokushiki wasn't at least significantly above the VA's (who mainly use Rokushiki)?

So I think Lucci is above average VA, making Luffy above average VA

I remember someone saying "how could that be? that'd mean that beneath Garp, Sengoku and Admirals nobody's competent enough to take on pirates on the New World!" Well yeah that's how it sounds, but don't you guys remember how they talked about the Grand Line being the pirates' graveyard and all that? It was definetely more dangerous than the East Blue, but all the hype that was give to the Grand Line made me think it'd be more dangerous.

 

[goldb]

We haven't seen any of the Vice- Admirals fight enough to compare their strengths and you can't go with that link to say that he is above VA strength. Imo Rob Lucci would be Rear-Admiral level.

 

[Franckie]

1. sengoku
2. Garp
3. Kizaru (his haxed ability puts him ahead of Akainu)
4. Akainu
5. Aokiji
6. Sentoumaru/Smoker/ VA (i really want to put Smoker higher though; i think he will eventually be Admiral level+)
7. Hina
8. captains, commodores and below
9. Coby + fodder

If Magellan counts, then he'd probably be around 5.5, i actually consider his abilities to be on par with admirals

I disagree with Sengoku and Garp being stronger than the 3 Admirals. Sengoku and Garp have gotten old, their current feats don't stack up to what any of the Admirals have shown, and the 3 Admirals have been repeatedly stated to be the strongest marines.

 

[shluffy]

Why are the Gorosei on that list ??? that's a bit strange. A lot of votes for Coby, but even After his brief display I'm gonna go with Sengoku.

Why? If you look at their appearances, 3 of them have scars and one of them carries a samurai. It would seem that they have fighting experience and I would assume that they are REALLY REALLY strong to be at the top of the WG.

 

[BlackHair]

Well going by this thread name, the Gorusaia don't belong into that poll. Since they are not within the marine. They represent a political power not a fighting power. So while I expect them to have some skills, I don't see them with high-tier strength.

Im with Garp as the strongest Marine, slightly behind him Sengoku then the Admirals. While Kiz seems to be the strongest, since his logia is just hax.

 

[The Don Master T]

I voted coby because the ? is who will be the strongest marine not who is the strongest marine

as to my answer to who is the current strongest I would put the fleet admiral and garp on top followed by the admirals because to me had it only been the admirals vs White Beard white beard would have wiped the floor with them as powerful as the admirals were WB was like 5 times stronger then all of them and we didn't get to see garp get serious at all during the battle climax of him was yelling at luffy and wondering if he had made to wrong choice about allowing this to happen to ace sengkou didn't reall get a chance to go all out either but the admirals pull out a huge parian of there power in order to just battle the WB division captions and only got the upper hand because of the div capts be to worried about WB's condition so I put garp and sengkou above them for now

 

[BlackHair]

I voted coby because the ? is who will be the strongest marine not who is the strongest marine

Damn made a mistake there. Well in that case my vote goes also to Coby or maybe Smoker not sure. Anyway it seems though that quite a few ppl made a mistake here xD

 

[Tinori]

Don't care about the rest, Akainu is the strongest marine. We shouldn't assume the others are stronger simply because of rank.

Akainu have shown us how strong he is and he won the war for the marines. He took an everyone and won. He's merciless and no hesitation makes him a scary opponent to go up against. Even if Garp is stronger I feel he is weak because he doesn't have to balls to stand up against the marines or help them in their fight. He simply sits back and does nothing.

Who would scare you more? a guy comes in charging merciless with killing intent or some guy who sits back and talk.

Akainu is strongest marine. He will move up after this war.

 

[Fox666]

Garp would be aside with Sengoku to make sure noone enter the execution platform.

Later when Ace was rescued, there was nothing left for him. And he would not join with Akainu in a killing spree of the remaining Whitebeard pirates.

 

[BlackHair]

Who would scare you more? a guy comes in charging merciless with killing intent or some guy who sits back and talk.

Well this is not about the scariest marine, but the strongest.

Garp wins in power-scaling and Akainu in feats, while Garp hast shown us nothing. I believe Oda is saving him for future plot, just like Mihawk and Flamingo.

Anyway, I believe Kizaru is stronger than Akainu. Since imo Magma is inferior to light.

 

[Franckie]

I don't see how this disproves my earlier post. The term strongest is used for the rank "Admiral", not for AoKiji or any other individual. In that case Garp and Sengoku shouldn't be excluded.

The higher-ups offered the rank "Admiral" to Aokiji, Kizaru, and Akainu because they're considered MHQ's most powerful fighters. What Garp and Sengoku were considered 22+ years ago is irrevelent.

I think it is pretty much clear that Oda is saving him for later. But you are right, he didn't show us anything. Neither his skills or trying and failing. Leaving Luffy vs Garp out.

Oda saving Garp for future plot developments doesn't equate to him being ridiculously powerful. More importantly, it's irrefutable that Garp didn't get any major hype in the past arc as the 3 Admirals did. WB even commented that Garp is a shadow of his former self.

It is hinted that Garp fought him evenly. Roger: "The two of us have killed each other many times. I can't find a better conclusion than evenly.

WB was the only one who could ever stalemate Roger in a fight, which means Garp never fought Roger to a draw. Roger was trying to make Garp think of them as friends when he said that, because he wanted Garp to take care of his kid.

Had to? No that's wrong. By Garp and Sengoku tag-teaming Shiki's loss was guaranteed. With that they won with less effort.

1) Same case with WG Alliance (MHQ + 7 Warlords) vs WB Alliance. The two forces of WG didn't had to fight together to beat the WB pirates. MHQ could have done the job on their own. It's just that by tag-teaming the success rate went up in their favour.

2) The Admirals didn't had to team up together to block one of WB's attack. It's just with three of them, they can do the job easier.

Taking on 2 of MHQ's elites counts as hype for Shiki. True, Shiki lost the battle, but the fact that Garp (who you subscribe as being Roger's equal) and Sengoku were unable to curbstomp him (half of Marineford was destroyed in their fight) gives a clear indication that neither Garp or Sengoku is individually more powerful than Shiki.

1) The "Balance of Power" is composed of armies duking it out with each other. 2vs1 is a different situation altogether.

2) The Admirals blocked WB's attack in order to protect the scaffhold. They wouldn't have bothered blocking the attack if they were engaging WB in a fight. And I shouldn't need to point out that current WB is in no position to take on 2 Admirals at the same time.

Almost every time Luffy's rubber intangibility was bypassed, there was a comment on that. Either from Luffy himself or of any other character.

BB vs Luffy - commented by Croco
Garp vs Luffy - commented by Sanji
Garp vs Luffy - commented by Luffy
Sento vs Luffy - commented by Chopper
Boa Sister vs Luffy - commented by Luffy
etc

You will have hard time finding comments of bypassing on Nami's hits. Sure as Garp punched Luffy in W7 his wound got big as Nami's, since the scene was for comedy purpose. But the damage of Garp's punch was real. Sanji's comment is proof of that. Without his comment, I would have agreed with you. Anyway, if you don't want to accept this, you will have to at least accept this. On that page, there is no hint of comedy. Garp can use haki, that's proven fact by now. Sengoku can't use haki until said/displayed otherwise.

Fair enough. I'll concede on this particular matter. Still, even if Garp can use Haki, it's still no guarantee that he can defeat an Admiral as evidenced by Rayleigh vs Kizaru and Jozu vs Aokiji.

My argument: Garp should be around WB's equal level. Thus (slightly) stronger than the Admirals. Since none of the Admirals could have defeated WB in a fair 1vs1. Also he can use Haki to bypass intangibility. Anyway, enough off topic from me. Any further discussion will be posted by me in this thread.

My argument: Garp is weaker than WB's current level. Thus weaker than any of the Admirals. Since WB failed hard to pwn or even harm Admirals when he tried attacking them in a fair fight. The one time WB did succeed in harming an Admiral (jumping Akainu from behind and quaking the island in half during that attack), WB still failed hard at inflicting fatal damage on Akainu. Also, Garp using Haki to bypass intangibility will still prove difficult since the Admirals have been shown to be able to defend themselves from Haki.

 

[Ashura_Ichibugin]

WB was the only one who could ever stalemate Roger in a fight, which means Garp never fought Roger to a draw. Roger was trying to make Garp think of them as friends when he said that, because he wanted Garp to take care of his kid.

This does not make sense at all. Let's analyze what the says "The two of us have nearly killed each other so many times".

1) Garp would know if he nearly killed somebody. So, even if Roger tried to trick him, he wouldn't fall for it.

2) Moreover, he wouldn't try to make Garp think of them as friends; because if Roger thinks Garp does not think of them as friends, he wouldn't trust Ace to him.

3) Roger would know if somebody nearly killed him.

4) So many times means it is more than once, probably a lot more. So, it can't be due to some situational disadvantage, it can't be due to luck. They fought more or less equally.

5) Garp and Sengoku being the last line of defence in Ace's execution is an implication of their power levels.

 

[undertoe]

It's been made very clear in One Piece that strength fades very little, if at all, with age. I can't see any reason for people to assume that Sengoku and Garp are significantly weaker than they used to be. Furthermore, it has never been stated that the individual admirals are the strongest marines; it has only been stated that TOGETHER they are the strongest FORCE. Individually, it's possible that none of them is as strong as Garp or Sengoku.

 

[DLord.Van.Buuren]

it has only been stated that TOGETHER they are the strongest FORCE..

it was mentioned actually that aokiji was the strongest admiral at HQ , but was assumed to be a mistake .

 

[BlackHair]

What Garp and Sengoku were considered 22+ years ago is irrevelent.

Until the reason behind Senkous promotion is said, I don't see it as irrelevant.

At that time, Garp was still not a developed character. Only about 4-5 years later, Oda started to develop Garp. Im not saying the Gorusai statement is unacceptable, but it is outdated. We have now new reasons to believe that the Admirals are not necessarily the strongest within the MHQ.

Oda saving Garp for future plot developments doesn't equate to him being ridiculously powerful.

If it was just for saving, then clearly not. Otherwise anyone had the right to claim some random dude to be stronger than the Admirals. But it is not just saving.

• He cornered several times the PK and was said to have near dead matches with him.
• He is a D, refused to become a Admiral and carries the title Hero of the Marine. Going by the reaction of the WB pirates, that title must be linked to his battle and its achievements.

I think it is more than clear that Garp is a extreme powerhouse on his own. He is a fighting power of the MHQ, not a tactician or w/e. So yes, Oda saving him makes me think that he is extremely powerful, same goes for Mihawk, who was also saved for future plot.

WB was the only one who could ever stalemate Roger in a fight, which means Garp never fought Roger to a draw.

That was Buggy's statement. Im not denying it's credibility, but we have new reasons to believe that WB was not the only one.

Garp was said to have cornered Roger. He was also said to have chased Roger on every occasion. Furthermore Roger said he fought him several times to near dead. So from my point of view, you wouldn't fight to draw and run from someone if he is not extremely strong. Anyway, everything vast theories, since it was all Offpanel.

Same case for the Shiki's matter, it was also offpanel. Until we know their ability's (I didn't watch the movie yet) we (I) can't rly come to a conclusion. I mean the damage on the MHQ, could have been easily made by a destructive devil fruit (like Enel's for instance). So it doesn't have to mean anything.

Also I was earlier trying to point out that a tag team doesn't automatically mean Shiki > Sengoku or Garp. To me it just means that both of them together could beat Shiki with less effort, without going into all out mode. Thus the success-rate of the victory was more high. Same case for the two forces against one and three Admirals blocking one attack, I think u misunderstood my intention of those two examples.

Lastly I agree, Roger was trying to play Garp, but just based on that I don't think we can conclude that statement as a lie. If we consider that he cornered him several times and the other facts pointing towards him being strong, I believe Rogers statement was most likely true.

Spoiler: WB vs Admirals

Since WB failed hard to pwn or even harm Admirals when he tried attacking them in a fair fight.

The moment WB stepped down from his ship, nothing was fair anymore. One of his alliance-mate was played and WB ended up with a hole in his chest. I don't need to mention that before the vs Akainu fight, WB was multiple wounded by the marines. While Akainu was fresh, without any signs of damage. That battle was no way in hell fair. To me a fair fight means if both fighter fights on neutral battlefield, without any disadvantage for each and naturally both of them have to be fresh, without damages, exhaustion etc.

Yes Akainu was able to take half of his face, but WB was in a hurry. While for Akainu it was just vs WB, for WB it was more like vs MHQ. He needed to buy time for his crew's escape, while he was holding the entire MHQ. So he couldn't focus only on Akainu.

Now imagine, if it wasn't MHQ but just Akainu, don't you think WB would have jumped on and focused more attacks on him, even after he felled down? So not just 2 hits, but more, way more. I think it is pretty clear that Akainu couldn't fight anymore after the 2nd hit. That's why I can't imagine him surviving further hits, while WB who was shot and stabbed several times, who also lost his face and had a hole in his chest, was still not down.

The way I see it, WB wanted to take down Akainu as fast as possible (reasons: Ace and Crews safty), so he let him take his face, but landed two fast hits. Under normal condition the WB vs Akainu fight would have lasted way longer, WB wouldn't have lost his face in a few seconds and Akainu wouldn't have been defeated so early.

WB vs aynone displayed so far = WB -> the strongest man
WB vs 2 Admirals = Admirals

Anyway, it's not a secret that Im a WB-fanboy, but Im not pulling my arguments out of my ass. He portrayed his superiority, not to mention Oda did not make him lose in a fair 1vs1 fight. So I believe with that infobox labelling him as the strongest, was not a title, but rather a fact.

I can easily see this discussion turning to another WB vs BB debate, I would like to avoid that. Also I believe we are about to start repeating and discussing the same arguments, well I'm at least. Tbh I don't think we are able to change our opinion, no matter what argument we pull. So lets wait for Oda to answer this. With that I will stop posting on this matter, until I see new arguments or if some1 else quotes my posts. On a personal note, thx for ur pm and moving this discussion out of that thread. I dislike to go offtopic.

it was mentioned actually that aokiji was the strongest admiral at HQ , but was assumed to be a mistake .

The term strongest is used for the rank "Admiral", not for AoKiji or any other individual. But note, Garp declined the rank Admiral and Sengoku was promoted from that rank.

 

[undertoe]

it was mentioned actually that aokiji was the strongest admiral at HQ , but was assumed to be a mistake .

Please read the topic before posting so we don't just retread the same material. Akainu addressed this earlier.

 

[Dark God Zeus]

Future divisions within the Marines.

After the destruction of Marineford, the death of whitebeard's rule, and the desolation of Impel Down, the world of One Piece is in greater disarray than anything else we've seen.

The Marines themselves currently have lost several thousands of men, including some lesser vice admirals. Their main base has been destroyed, and a major associated fighting force, the shichibukai, has effectivley been reduced to four.

Obviously within the Marines there are conflicting beliefs of justice.

Sengoku: The current leader of the Marines, Sengoku believes in a utilitarian style of justice, or a consequentalist depending on how you look at it. Sengoku could have continued the war, had a team follow Law/Luffy, fought with the new Blackbeard Pirates, and Red Hair, but chose to end the war to save falling soldiers.

Akainu: A believer in absolute justice, an a current Admiral, Akainu is a relentless dog of the marines. He is possibily symbolic of deontology, or ethics which believe in "your moral duty", in this case, the Marines moral duty to eradicate evil/pirates from this world. Even if it meant sacrificing all of his men, Akainu would undoubtedly continue the war if he were in Sengoku's place.

With these two prominent leaders of the upper echelons, eshewing the other leaders and their hard-to-catagorize beliefs, I could see a future rift in the Marines happening, further causing havok in the world (but also sending a blow to "Justice" and helping the pirates).

On one side I could see Sengoku, Aokiji, Garp, Smoker, Tashigi Coby, and then various other soldiers from VA to ensigns. If the shichibukai had to choose sides too, this would get Mihawk and Boa.

On the other side I could see the gourosei (being the political power that agrees with them), Akainu, Kizaru, several VAs, and then a bunch of other soldiers. And then also Vegapunk, sentomaru, and the pacifistas, most likely from what we've seen. Donflamingo and Kuma PX.

 

[chess4]

Re: Future divisions within the Marines.

i dont think the division will come until later on, when the "GREAT WAR" that will engulf the world takes place. i think aokiji, garp, smoker, tashigi, coby, and helmelppo among others will side together. i think when all that happens, luffy would have found one piece already. i say that because i dont think the one piece is just treasure. it is probably info on what happened in the void century. i think when it is revealed then some of the marines will be disgusted with the government and a mini revolt will take place splitting them up.

the marines are very much still needed, so i cant see them falling apart until the end. i think after the great war the marines will be rebuilt with aokiji as fleet admiral, smoker will be an admiral and maybe koby and another one of the one of the vice admirals

 

[Marche]

Re: Future divisions within the Marines.

i dont think the division will come until later on, when the "GREAT WAR" that will engulf the world takes place. i think aokiji, garp, smoker, tashigi, coby, and helmelppo among others will side together. i think when all that happens, luffy would have found one piece already. i say that because i dont think the one piece is just treasure. it is probably info on what happened in the void century. i think when it is revealed then some of the marines will be disgusted with the government and a mini revolt will take place splitting them up.

the marines are very much still needed, so i cant see them falling apart until the end. i think after the great war the marines will be rebuilt with aokiji as fleet admiral, smoker will be an admiral and maybe koby and another one of the one of the vice admirals

I agree with you, with every thing than you have said.
In fact I think that the One Piece is the "real PG" (reread the chapter in which Robin read the PG on the Sky isle).
I also think than Kizaru is not from "Absolute justice", but anyways I also think than he will stay in that side for some reason (I think than the reason are from the plot of the story).