TV The Television Show Thread

[goldb]

Just like Organizized, I've been saving it for a rainy day (in this case, snowy) after @xi0 mentioned it to me a while ago. I hope it's as good as you guys say, especially if both Ustegius and Jammin like it.

 

[xi0]

It's the best thing on TV right now honestly. The music, cinematography, the high-concept plot. It's just incredible Like, nearly all of the mysteries in the show were solved by people on the series subreddit in advanced, but it didn't even matter in the end, quality-wise. It was executed so masterfully that it didn't even matter if some ended up predicting it. So many episodes were just insanely moving and thought-provoking, resulting in goosebumps on a regular basis. It really puts stuff on network TV to shame.

There are a ton of theories regarding the finale and where the show goes from here, but it'd probably be appropriate to do in it's own thread, since it seems a lot of people here intend on binge-watching it.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 6, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 6, 2016 ---

Honestly, nearly everyone of the main characters deserves Emmy consideration, not even kidding. Hopkins, Harris, Woods, Wright, Newton, etc.

 

[goldb]

If Hopkins, Harris and Woods don't win an Emmy, it's an absolute insult. I binge-watched the first 8 episodes yesterday and the last 2 this morning. I'm really glad I resisted all urges to look online or even read the synopsis. I thoroughly enjoyed this maze of a journey as the story unraveled, characters grew right in front of you. The cast is just amazing, Anthony Hopkins is a genius, if you don't believe me, rewatch this scene; one of my favourites and check out this analysis:


I want to erase my memories and rewatch again.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 8, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 8, 2016 ---

I honestly had no idea if he was a good or bad guy until pretty close to the end but he was riveting the whole time.

You know, this is what got me about the characters in this show. As the show goes on and the characters grow, I don't think it's as clear as to say character x is a villain, character y is a good guy; I think a few of them walked a fine line in between or crossed over. For certain The Man in Black was a villainous character but I think even his motives are understandable by the end. I dunno, maybe I'm not explaining it properly.

 

[Jammin]

You know, this is what got me about the characters in this show. As the show goes on and the characters grow, I don't think it's as clear as to say character x is a villain, character y is a good guy; I think a few of them walked a fine line in between or crossed over. For certain The Man in Black was a villainous character but I think even his motives are understandable by the end. I dunno, maybe I'm not explaining it properly.

I get what your saying and that's what i liked about it too. The way everything is set up you almost can't know whether characters are good or not. Or even if they are trying to do something good.

Spoiler: Westworld S1 spoilers

The prime example was Ed Harris's character. He goes around doing awful things for the entire season but in the end what he wants is for them to be self aware. They seem to be at their closest to that when he's doing something terrible to them; which is a pretty morally complex motivation. But there is the further nuance of whether he wants them to be self aware for their own sake or for the increased satisfaction he may get from torturing them after they can fight back.

We don't really get the answers but what we do get is this very memorable moment where one of them shoots and wounds him and for the first time and he looks so genuinely happy.

 

[goldb]

I get what your saying and that's what i liked about it too. The way everything is set up you almost can't know whether characters are good or not. Or even if they are trying to do something good.

Spoiler: Westworld S1 spoilers

The prime example was Ed Harris's character. He goes around doing awful things for the entire season but in the end what he wants is for them to be self aware. They seem to be at their closest to that when he's doing something terrible to them; which is a pretty morally complex motivation. But there is the further nuance of whether he wants them to be self aware for their own sake or for the increased satisfaction he may get from torturing them after they can fight back.

We don't really get the answers but what we do get is this very memorable moment where one of them shoots and wounds him and for the first time and he looks so genuinely happy.

Spoiler: Season 1

I've just seen a video by Emergency Awesome talking about that last episode and this particular scene. One thing that sort of disappointed me is William being so stuck in his ways and driven to finding the centre of the maze that he ignores what Dolores is going through when they go back to the old town and she's trying to make clear her visions. As Ford mentione earlier, he's so anxious to get to this centre and find whatever he thinks Arnold left there that he doesn't consider other possibilities( especially when being constantly told "the maze isn't mean for you").

 

[xi0]

I want to erase my memories and rewatch again.

What door?

I don't see anything at all

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 9, 2016, Original Post Date: Dec 9, 2016 ---

Spoiler: Westworld S1 spoilers

The prime example was Ed Harris's character. He goes around doing awful things for the entire season but in the end what he wants is for them to be self aware. They seem to be at their closest to that when he's doing something terrible to them; which is a pretty morally complex motivation. But there is the further nuance of whether he wants them to be self aware for their own sake or for the increased satisfaction he may get from torturing them after they can fight back.

We don't really get the answers but what we do get is this very memorable moment where one of them shoots and wounds him and for the first time and he looks so genuinely happy.

Spoiler

I think it's safe to assume that he wants them to be self-aware and with full agency for his own gratification. The MiB found his "true self" in the park. To look at it from an RPG perspective, he's a hardcore completionist. The game of Westworld was always set up for him to win. The Maze was something he sought out as the true "hard-mode". I think him finding Dolores back in Sweetwater when he was young and realizing that it wasn't real is what broke him. I no longer think there is a benevolence to his motives with the hosts. Which actually sort of runs contrary to what Ford was attempting to do in the end.

 

[Doughboy]

So excited they'd finally decided to pull their finger out and make this happen ; Young Justice season 3!

Never knew there was thread like this on here. But YOO I'm so happy they're finally doing this. Can't believe it got canceled after season 2. This show is so so good, it has everything people look for in a series nowadays (action, drama, romance) and it gets pretty intense. Can't wait

 

[Jammin]

Spoiler

I think it's safe to assume that he wants them to be self-aware and with full agency for his own gratification. The MiB found his "true self" in the park. To look at it from an RPG perspective, he's a hardcore completionist. The game of Westworld was always set up for him to win. The Maze was something he sought out as the true "hard-mode". I think him finding Dolores back in Sweetwater when he was young and realizing that it wasn't real is what broke him. I no longer think there is a benevolence to his motives with the hosts. Which actually sort of runs contrary to what Ford was attempting to do in the end.

Spoiler

I don't think that is a safe assumption. That's the cool thing about the character. His desire started as something based around Dolorous then shifted to something dark about himself and what happened with that. But in all the evil stuff there is context and inconsistencies that complicate it.

Like how he wanted Dolorous to shoot him and how disappointed he was when she couldn't. That suggests it's less about what he wants for himself and him wanting this imaginary place to become real.

Even most of the evil stuff he's done can actually be framed as a part of that base desire because of what he said early on about how the Hosts are at the most alive when they experience torment. Does he torment them to feed his own sadism or is it to see them be alive?

One impression that could be taken away by the end is that he's basically a sociopath who is obsessed with making this Westworld and it's hosts real. Which wouldn't be benevolence. It would be a clinical kind of fascination. I mean, in hindsight when you look at everything he does it's actually not sadistic so much as coldly practical.

 

[xi0]

Spoiler

I don't think that is a safe assumption. That's the cool thing about the character. His desire started as something based around Dolorous then shifted to something dark about himself and what happened with that. But in all the evil stuff there is context and inconsistencies that complicate it.

Like how he wanted Dolorous to shoot him and how disappointed he was when she couldn't. That suggests it's less about what he wants for himself and him wanting this imaginary place to become real.

Even most of the evil stuff he's done can actually be framed as a part of that base desire because of what he said early on about how the Hosts are at the most alive when they experience torment. Does he torment them to feed his own sadism or is it to see them be alive?

One impression that could be taken away by the end is that he's basically a sociopath who is obsessed with making this Westworld and it's hosts real. Which wouldn't be benevolence. It would be a clinical kind of fascination. I mean, in hindsight when you look at everything he does it's actually not sadistic so much as coldly practical.

Spoiler

Hmm, fair enough. But I still sort of see him as not doing what he's doing for the sake of the hosts. At one time, one would think he would do that for Dolores, but not who he is today. At least, he didn't see them like Arnold saw them, or how Ford eventually came to see them, as their creation or children.

But I still sort of fail to see the difference between what he would have wanted and him wanting the park to become "real". Those are still things he desired, for the stakes to be raised. Does he want this so that he can be with Dolores and love her like his wife? Not likely. That doesn't make him evil, no. But does that make him like Arnold or Ford? Probably not. He took control of the park because of this "quest", one that was never intended for him in the first place. He doesn't even seem to be interested in it from a corporate espionage or militaristic standpoint either, like some unknown Delos board members probably could be, considering the capabilities of this technology.

 

[Jammin]

Spoiler

Hmm, fair enough. But I still sort of see him as not doing what he's doing for the sake of the hosts. At one time, one would think he would do that for Dolores, but not who he is today. At least, he didn't see them like Arnold saw them, or how Ford eventually came to see them, as their creation or children.

But I still sort of fail to see the difference between what he would have wanted and him wanting the park to become "real". Those are still things he desired, for the stakes to be raised. Does he want this so that he can be with Dolores and love her like his wife? Not likely. That doesn't make him evil, no. But does that make him like Arnold or Ford? Probably not. He took control of the park because of this "quest", one that was never intended for him in the first place. He doesn't even seem to be interested in it from a corporate espionage or militaristic standpoint either, like some unknown Delos board members probably could be, considering the capabilities of this technology.

Spoiler

It's not about good and evil. It's about the element of nuance and mystery present in so many of characters. As much as we know about the William character we still can't be fully certain what drives him; which in his case could be two polar opposite things. To hurt or to help. The difference changes the entire context of what the character says and does. Like when he acts like the hosts are old friends he might actually have meant it... or he might be taunting victims. We can't know. Which is why I was using him as an example, when talking to goldb originally.

The same was true of Anthony Hopkins character Ford this season right? He did a lot of bad things but it wasn't until the end we were completely sure why. And bringing that out is what gave the finale the impact it had. It changes how you view almost everything the Ford character had done.

It's that kind of nuance that made this show so good and so satisfying.

 

[Styx]

I just finished Netflix's "The OA" (yes, "the away"). I thought it was going to be so bad because of the description but it turned out to be so good. It was like Stranger Things in a sense of being "out there" and...well, I'm not sure how else to describe it but it was well worth the ride.

Have any of you guys checked it out yet? If so, what did you think of it? If not, do you plan to?

 

[Riku]

It is next on my list.

I just finished Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency season 1. It was brilliant. I loved every second it. I loved random, crazyness, the humor, the pace, the drama, the characters. It has very little to with the actual original books, but it finds the nature of Douglas Adams' style and humor, and uses that while delivering it own thing.

Brilliant. That's all I can say really. And that everything is connected.

 

[Organizized]

I'm very interested in Dirk Gently, but have also been very skeptical as the first book is one of my all time favorites. Still, I'm going to watch it, and if my Finnish book nut pal says they capture Adams' style well, it soothes my skepticism at least a little.

Can't get over the last attempt at Dirk Gently as a TV series though. That was mediocre at its peaks.

 

[Riku]

I'm very interested in Dirk Gently, but have also been very skeptical as the first book is one of my all time favorites. Still, I'm going to watch it, and if my Finnish book nut pal says they capture Adams' style well, it soothes my skepticism at least a little.

Can't get over the last attempt at Dirk Gently as a TV series though. That was mediocre at its peaks.

Just be prepared, that they are really doing their own thing with Dirk Gently, it parts quite a bit from the books. But it is an brilliant adaptation, the spirit is there.

 

[Styx]

It is next on my list.

I just finished Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency season 1. It was brilliant. I loved every second it. I loved random, crazyness, the humor, the pace, the drama, the characters. It has very little to with the actual original books, but it finds the nature of Douglas Adams' style and humor, and uses that while delivering it own thing.

Brilliant. That's all I can say really. And that everything is connected.

I have never heard of it, but I'm game for any new show. I'll check it out.

 

[Jammin]

I'm completely addicted to Legion on FX now.

It's was such a strange choice for FX to build a show around Legion who is the X-Men's Charles Xaiver's son in the comics. Who is a C-list character at best. Of all the characters to pick from it's mind blowing they would pick him. But they've done a great job making a show around him that's as much psychological horror as it is superhero.

It's like part Inception part Nightmare on Elm St.

 

[Faust]

Currently watching the British sitcom, Black Books

 

[Jammin]

Decided to check out Iron Fist despite the very negative reviews.

At 3 episodes in I really don't see why all the critics were acting like watching this show gave them cancer. It's not great but it's not terrible either. While it may not be anywhere near as good as something like Daredevil so far it's fairly comparable to Luke Cage.

I get people are upset that a white guy is starring in a kung fu show for some reason, meanwhile David Carradine(not even remotely Asian) spent his whole life doing exactly that and nobody ever had a problem with it. People need to relax a little, IMO. Because otherwise they need to be equally mad at Arrow, Dr. Strange, and Christopher Nolan's Batman who all have very similar backstories.

Not saying this is a great show but if critics think this is what a truely bad superhero show looks like they need to go watch Arrow and be reminded how bad they can truely be.

 

[goldb]

Yeah @Jammin, a friend of mine just finished watching it and told me that if I start, I should pace myself.

After binge-watching a ton of its videos, I've decided to watch Archer finally. It seems just like my sort of show, so I'm sure i'll enjoy it...even though I've ruined a lot of spoiler stuff.

 

[Jammin]

Yeah @Jammin, a friend of mine just finished watching it and told me that if I start, I should pace myself.

After binge-watching a ton of its videos, I've decided to watch Archer finally. It seems just like my sort of show, so I'm sure i'll enjoy it...even though I've ruined a lot of spoiler stuff.

Archer is fantastic. The first and second seasons are solid gold.