Discussion The Ten Commandments

[LivewireToriko]

I think we have enough to work with to form a bare bones power structure imo.

1. Estarossa(hype).

2. Zeldris(trashed Meliodas).

3. Derrière(broke meliodas arms)

4. Dolor(managed to take several of meliodas attacks).

5. Glox(He said that fake day escanor was stronger than galan, but not himself or dolor(at least from a power level perspective))

6. Gray lord(?)

7. Monspiet(?)

8. Galan(opted to suicide out of fear).

9. Mera(Nearly killed by a soul)

10. Fraudrin/Dreyfus( Dreyfus power level + nearly dead fraudrin power level)

You agree/disagree?

 

[Gallon]

2. Zeldris(trashed Meliodas).

When did that happen?

Besides Monspiet and Gray Lord, who lack many feats, I think the ranking is good. We need more insight on these two.
Still, I'm not a big fan of comparing those who excel at magic with those who excel at physical fighting; we can't really tell whether Merascylla or Galan is stronger, for example, since they are suited for different methods of battle.

 

[Calum]

I think we have enough to work with to form a bare bones power structure imo.

1. Estarossa(hype).

2. Zeldris(trashed Meliodas).

3. Derrière(broke meliodas arms)

4. Dolor(managed to take several of meliodas attacks).

5. Glox(He said that fake day escanor was stronger than galan, but not himself or dolor(at least from a power level perspective))

6. Gray lord(?)

7. Monspiet(?)

8. Galan(opted to suicide out of fear).

9. Mera(Nearly killed by a soul)

10. Fraudrin/Dreyfus( Dreyfus power level + nearly dead fraudrin power level)

You agree/disagree?

It's still too early to say though. We've still seen very little of the commandments actual power, abilities but a good scale so far. You have to take into account that you are comparing different types of fighters. Though i agree with most of it but how exactly did Zeldris wreck meliodas?. I thought it was pretty equal.

 

[Demonspeed]

I won''t rank the brothers but they are probably equal or something. That Demon King statement was not for naught.

I won't rank all the others either but the weakest to me seems to be Gloxinia now though I only think that because he has theoretically the best weapon. Dolor at least didn't show his dance yet fought without a weapon and there are secrets about his eye but he's probably among the weakest Commandments. I say that because he was originally a Giant, there is nothing to really back it up but I believe these kind of Demons are weaker than the true ones.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

I think we have enough to work with to form a bare bones power structure imo.

1. Estarossa(hype).

2. Zeldris(trashed Meliodas).

3. Derrière(broke meliodas arms)

4. Dolor(managed to take several of meliodas attacks).

5. Glox(He said that fake day escanor was stronger than galan, but not himself or dolor(at least from a power level perspective))

6. Gray lord(?)

7. Monspiet(?)

8. Galan(opted to suicide out of fear).

9. Mera(Nearly killed by a soul)

10. Fraudrin/Dreyfus( Dreyfus power level + nearly dead fraudrin power level)

You agree/disagree?

I disagree for the most part. Actually I think I can only be sure that Estarossa and Zeldris are in the top 3, everyone else I don't think there's enough info about them to rank them.

 

[kkck]

I won''t rank the brothers but they are probably equal or something. That Demon King statement was not for naught.

I won't rank all the others either but the weakest to me seems to be Gloxinia now though I only think that because he has theoretically the best weapon. Dolor at least didn't show his dance yet fought without a weapon and there are secrets about his eye but he's probably among the weakest Commandments. I say that because he was originally a Giant, there is nothing to really back it up but I believe these kind of Demons are weaker than the true ones.

I would still think that a weapon for these guys is a non issue. Weapons were relevant early in the manga because they allowed the sins to draw out their true power. However for whatever reason the commandments and certain other fighters don't seem to have issues drawing their true power without a weapon. Matrona does not seem to need one either and even diane did not use her gideon to fight dolor's doll. As for the dance, I do think dolor has used it. We saw him go all out against meliodas as far as we saw. While he has certainly mastered the dance, I don't think of it as something that he needs to "use" in battle for it to be effective. It's effect is already there.

 

[Calum]

Any guesses in how Gray Lords commandment works?. It's been misleading up until now and none of the commandments look at risk of having the decree work of them. I'm curious if it's Gray Lords decree stops his/her from killing or if it's the other way around. This is the unclear part because Denzel's group were under the assumption that the'd fall for his decree if they killed Fraudren. Maybe the commandment doesn't work on on who the user see's as there allies.

 

[Kefka]

Any guesses in how Gray Lords commandment works?. It's been misleading up until now and none of the commandments look at risk of turnrig to stone. I'm curious of it's Gray Lords decree stops hi/her from kulling or if it's the other way around. This is the unclear part because

I think it works like Galan's. Galan "lied" and suffered the consequences of his own commandment. And I think it's the same with Gray Lord. If someone kills in his presence, they will suffer the consequences of his commandment.

 

[Calum]

oup

I think it works like Galan's. Galan "lied" and suffered the consequences of his own commandment. And I think it's the same with Gray Lord. If someone kills in his presence, they will suffer the consequences of his commandment.

Then what are they going to do about Mel?. The commandments wouldn't be around Gray Lord if it's they are constantly at risk of being effected by his commandment. I think think too inconvenient to have so it must just effect the user. Also Gray Lord hasn't used any offensive magic either which is another possible hint.

 

[Demonspeed]

oup

Then what are they going to do about Mel?. The commandments wouldn't be around Gray Lord if it's they are constantly at risk of being effected by his commandment. I think think too inconvenient to have so it must just effect the user. Also Gray Lord hasn't used any offensive magic either which is another possible hint.

Fraudrin might have lied but the previosu chapter showed that Gray Lord's presence was needed. Without him Meliodas would have fled. He might not be able to kill but there are plenty of ways to make your opponent powerless without killing him. Especially for he who seems to be more of a Wizard.

 

[Calum]

Fraudrin might have lied but the previosu chapter showed that Gray Lord's presence was needed. Without him Meliodas would have fled. He might not be able to kill but there are plenty of ways to make your opponent powerless without killing him. Especially for he who seems to be more of a Wizard.

What would Fraudren get out of lying to Denzel's group though?. Gray Lord was going to break him out anyway and Fraudren wouldn't have any trouble fighting Denzel. Gray Lord has to specialize in magic that isn't lethal to his opponents or even defensive magic.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Ugh this talk again.
Gray Lord's commandment will activate when someone DIES as in he gets KILLED. It won't activate when someone simply has the intention to kill.
That explains why it didn't activate when Fraudrin attacked the Pleiades. Since no one died, the commandment didn't activate.

It's like with Galan. Merlin got petrified AFTER she lied, not before when she had the intention to lie. You need to break the commandment by an action, telling a lie for Galan, and killing someone for Gray Lord.

Since no one died at the hands of Fraudrin, he didn't break the commandment. Why you guys have to make things more complicated than what they really are?
Fraudrin didn't lie most likely, because his own life hangs in the balance. If he were to get killed, sure Denzel and Deathpierce would break Gray lord's commandment, but that's the thing his own life hangs in the balance! I don't think he's willing to throw his life away like that. So he told them about the decree, so that he would walk away alive, and Denzel decided not to kill him so be didn't break the decree so everyone wins.
As for Fraudrin possibly dying, well it turned out that the tower was filled with research to help dispose of the demons, so the commandments were wary of it and Denzel would prolly use it to kill them. Sure we haven't seen what it is, but if it's enough to freak out Gray Lord then it must be legit.

--- Double Post Merged, May 22, 2016, Original Post Date: May 22, 2016 ---

oup

Then what are they going to do about Mel?. The commandments wouldn't be around Gray Lord if it's they are constantly at risk of being effected by his commandment. I think think too inconvenient to have so it must just effect the user. Also Gray Lord hasn't used any offensive magic either which is another possible hint.

Do we know for a fact that they want to kill Mel? Gray Lord used "death" between brackets, so it might not be a literal death. We just have to wait and see what they have in store for him, there's plenty of ways to get rid of him without killing him.

 

[Gallon]

Ugh this talk again.
Gray Lord's commandment will activate when someone DIES as in he gets KILLED. It won't activate when someone simply has the intention to kill.
That explains why it didn't activate when Fraudrin attacked the Pleiades. Since no one died, the commandment didn't activate.

It's like with Galan. Merlin got petrified AFTER she lied, not before when she had the intention to lie. You need to break the commandment by an action, telling a lie for Galan, and killing someone for Gray Lord.

Since no one died at the hands of Fraudrin, he didn't break the commandment. Why you guys have to make things more complicated than what they really are?
Fraudrin didn't lie most likely, because his own life hangs in the balance. If he were to get killed, sure Denzel and Deathpierce would break Gray lord's commandment, but that's the thing his own life hangs in the balance! I don't think he's willing to throw his life away like that. So he told them about the decree, so that he would walk away alive, and Denzel decided not to kill him so be didn't break the decree so everyone wins.

So... Fraudrin went for the kill with the knowledge that he'd fall prey to Graylord's decree?
The way you're making it sound makes no sense whatsoever - he tried to kill them, knowing that he'd be screwed by the decree if he were to... nah.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

So... Fraudrin went for the kill with the knowledge that he'd fall prey to Graylord's decree?
The way you're making it sound makes no sense whatsoever - he tried to kill them, knowing that he'd be screwed by the decree if he were to... nah.

No he didn't try to kill them, a knife to the stomach is not guaranteed to kill you only if it touches an internal organ and you could still survive long enough to receive treatment.
In a manga where magic is accessible it's not impossible to see them recover from such wounds. And the others fled before they got hit by the attack.
And I'm not sure you noticed but the demons left right after the attack so Gray Lord wasn't around anymore if and when someone died.Since no one died then the commandment didn't activate.
It was prolly a gamble on his part, but personally I think he was covering his tracks and he didn't exactly attack with the intention to kill them. His goal was to destroy the research facility.
The intention is not enough, it's just like with Galan. You have to lie in order to break the "Thou shalt not lie" decree, Merlin got petrified after she lied, not because she had the intention to lie.

Does that makes sense to you? I think it's rather clear, if not then I'm sorry but I can't do much for you, and you're free to disagree.

 

[Gallon]

No he didn't try to kill them, a knife to the stomach is not guaranteed to kill you only if it touches an internal organ and you could still survive long enough.
And I'm not sure you noticed but they left right after the attack so Gray Lord wasn't around anymore if and when someone died.

Fraudrin explicitly said: "Why am I leaving you guys alive again? I've become too soft..."
He clearly went for the kill in front of Graylord, and his attack was sufficient to eradicate the Pleiades.
We can't say that for sure. First, Graylord's decree's area of effect has not yet been explained, and the range in which the Pleiades were guaranteed their death had it not been for Dogget's "Boost". Graylord was very close when Fraudrin initiated that attack, which would kill someone on Deldrey's level in an instant.
Fraudrin's not dumb.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Fraudrin explicitly said: "Why am I leaving you guys alive again? I've become too soft..."
He clearly went for the kill in front of Graylord, and his attack was sufficient to eradicate the Pleiades.
We can't say that for sure. First, Graylord's decree's area of effect has not yet been explained, and the range in which the Pleiades were guaranteed their death had it not been for Dogget's "Boost". Graylord was very close when Fraudrin initiated that attack, which would kill someone on Deldrey's level in an instant.
Fraudrin's not dumb.

Which shows that saying "I'll kill someone" or having the intention to kill is not enough to activate the decree.
Someone really needs to die for it to happen. And I've edited my post to explain why Fraudrin did that, I'm not convinced his intention was to kill them for sure, he was more worried about the research facility, and there he was prolly just trying to reassure himself that he's still a demon.

We're not here to discuss ifs, we're here to discuss facts. The fact remains that no one died while Gray Lord is present, and that Fraudrin got away even if he might have had the intention to kill someone which shows that the intention to kill is not enough, and there needs to be an actual death, just like it needed to be an actual lie in before with Galan.
Sure there's a chance Fraudrin would have killed them which is why it was more of a gamble on his part, a gamble that paid off I would say.
If other characters are allowed to make gambles like Mel then I don't see what can stop Fraudrin from doing the same, but I can't tell more since the new chapter isn't out yet.

 

[Gallon]

Which shows that saying "I'll kill someone" or having the intention is not enough to activate the decree.
Someone really need to die. And I've edited my post to explain why Fraudrin did that, I'm not convinced his intention was to kill them for sure, he was more worried about the research facility, and there he was prolly just trying to reassure himself that he's still a demon.

What does that have to do with this? He directed "Break" at Deldrey, knowing very well that she'd die from it. Unless he's a diviner, and even if so, that gamble is perfectly unnecessary and dumb.
Whether he intended to destroy the facility is another story, but had it not been for Dogget, they'd all have died. Had it been the facility alone, he could've done it by other means, and even still, Denzel and Deathpierce were inside of it.
No matter how you look at it, he went for the kill.

I read your edited post, and that's definitely how the decree works, but Fraudrin's actions would only be described by "reckless" and "stupid" if he was prone to Graylord'a decree, and like I said, he's nowhere near to being dumb.

 

[Calum]

Ugh this talk again.
Gray Lord's commandment will activate when someone DIES as in he gets KILLED. It won't activate when someone simply has the intention to kill.
That explains why it didn't activate when Fraudrin attacked the Pleiades. Since no one died, the commandment didn't activate.

It's like with Galan. Merlin got petrified AFTER she lied, not before when she had the intention to lie. You need to break the commandment by an action, telling a lie for Galan, and killing someone for Gray Lord.

Since no one died at the hands of Fraudrin, he didn't break the commandment. Why you guys have to make things more complicated than what they really are?
Fraudrin didn't lie most likely, because his own life hangs in the balance. If he were to get killed, sure Denzel and Deathpierce would break Gray lord's commandment, but that's the thing his own life hangs in the balance! I don't think he's willing to throw his life away like that. So he told them about the decree, so that he would walk away alive, and Denzel decided not to kill him so be didn't break the decree so everyone wins.
As for Fraudrin possibly dying, well it turned out that the tower was filled with research to help dispose of the demons, so the commandments were wary of it and Denzel would prolly use it to kill them. Sure we haven't seen what it is, but if it's enough to freak out Gray Lord then it must be legit.

--- Double Post Merged, May 22, 2016, Original Post Date: May 22, 2016 ---

Do we know for a fact that they want to kill Mel? Gray Lord used "death" between brackets, so it might not be a literal death. We just have to wait and see what they have in store for him, there's plenty of ways to get rid of him without killing him.

True there are other ways to get Mel of the way but why wouldn't the commandments want him dead?. They hate hate, he's referred to as a traitor and they've only talked about wanting him dead. The biggest threat to the commandments right now besides Esky is Meliodas and if he's sealed there is always a chance that it can be broken.

 

[The President]

If I were to rank the Commandments (former and current) it would go:

Estarossa

-----Gap------

Melodias
Zeldris

-----Gap-----

Merascylla
Gowther

-----Gap------

Derrierie
Dolor
Gloxinia
Galan
Monspiet

------Gap-----

Fraudrin
Gray Lord

Estarossa is quite obviously the strongest (by a lot mind you). Melodias and Zeldris seem to be equals and are a cut above the rest. I put Mera and Gowther above the others because I value hax over raw power (to an extent of course, as Escanor has shown). Of course current Gowther is probably nowhere near as strong as he once was as a commandment, kinda like Melodias at the start of the arc. Then goes the average commandments who are all more or less as strong as each other (I'd put Derrierie slightly above the others in her grouping though). Then I put Fraudrin and Gray Lord at the very bottom because the former is a stand-in so I am going to assume he is not as strong as the average commandment, of course if feats show otherwise he would go up. The latter is not designed for combat, he's a support type (I anticipate Fraudrin and Gray Lord will fight together to compensate for these shortcomings).

 

[Gallon]

We're not here to discuss ifs, we're here to discuss facts. The fact remains that no one died while Gray Lord is present, and that Fraudrin got away even if he might have had the intention to kill someone which shows that the intention to kill is not enough, and there needs to be an actual death, just like it needed to be an actual lie in before with Galan.
Sure there's a chance Fraudrin would have killed them which is why it was more of a gamble on his part, a gamble that paid off I would say.
If other characters are allowed to make gambles like Mel then I don't see what can stop Fraudrin from doing the same, but I can't tell more since the new chapter isn't out yet.

We're not discussing ifs, we're discussing a misleading concept, and using ifs as support is not against the rules - this thread's topic is the Ten Commandments, and anything regarding those ten is open for discussion.
Fraudrin's intention is not important, his action is: he went for the kill.
Again, it wasn't a smart gamble, and a dumb gamble isn't in Fraudrin's arsenal.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that intending to kill someone is not enough. The issue is that he went for it.