Discussion Theory-baiting: Pudding and Toki

[zetsu banned]

These two characters have plot-altering DF that stand above pretty much all others. They're both Sugar-tier in their insane application possibilities, and both have garnered a fair amount of theories during these two arcs. Do you think the Toki Toki DF is still in circulation and/or Toki will show up in Wano? Or will it be a red herring like the Memo Memo DF and be used solely for an isolated plot purpose?

Oda seems to be refining his theory-baiting skills, and I think these two are especially tantalizing to let the imagination run wild. I for one have predicted that Momo will somehow age up and dragon fight Kaidou since Zou, then lo and behold- his mom has a time travel super power. My expectations are on Toki being isolated to Momo and co.'s backstory, but still.. Thoughts?

 

[nik87]

I really hope not.
Aging Momonosuke and turning him into something capable of fighting the strongest creature in the world sounds weird and as such, being a potential ally for Luffy means that he would be a huge power-up for the alliance and I don't think they will have allies that powerful.
But again, it could go otherwise, Oda rarely brings something in without working on it more...

 

[Takuan]

I never understood why people want Momonosuke to be a fighter that badly. I've never liked him, and the less he's relevant, the better i feel.

 

[afromarco005]

These two characters have plot-altering DF that stand above pretty much all others. They're both Sugar-tier in their insane application possibilities, and both have garnered a fair amount of theories during these two arcs. Do you think the Toki Toki DF is still in circulation and/or Toki will show up in Wano? Or will it be a red herring like the Memo Memo DF and be used solely for an isolated plot purpose?

Oda seems to be refining his theory-baiting skills, and I think these two are especially tantalizing to let the imagination run wild. I for one have predicted that Momo will somehow age up and dragon fight Kaidou since Zou, then lo and behold- his mom has a time travel super power. My expectations are on Toki being isolated to Momo and co.'s backstory, but still.. Thoughts?

Dragon vs dragon fighting in the skies would be quite a spectacle, but if momo is sent to the future or somehow gets older wouldn't that steal all of his childhood and young years from him?
That would be pretty cruel of his mom or whoever the new toki toki no mi user is don't you think?

 

[zetsu banned]

Going through ancient posts and found this gem

I for one have predicted that Momo will somehow age up and dragon fight Kaidou since Zou

Well that certainly aged well.

 

[HereNThere]

Well that certainly aged well.

Different path, but the conclusion ended up being the same. Kudos.

 

[Buulord]

Going through ancient posts and found this gem



Well that certainly aged well.

Ha, congrats. Definitely didn’t see it coming myself.

 

[zetsu banned]

Does anyone remember what moment was the big hint that Kaidou was a dragon? I know the full reveal only happened in Wano, but I know there was a big implication beforehand.

Also just want to point out, Kaidou's introduction is when I started reading so this was one of my first big predictions considering Zou was directly afterward.

 

[Zmsp]

Does anyone remember what moment was the big hint that Kaidou was a dragon? I know the full reveal only happened in Wano, but I know there was a big implication beforehand.

Also just want to point out, Kaidou's introduction is when I started reading so this was one of my first big predictions considering Zou was directly afterward.

Probably Punk Hazard?

First time we saw Momonosuke using his powers, and it was when his fruit was first considered a failure, but different in nature to the other SMILEs. That was crucial to have an inkling that it'd have different implications than the rest of them. I'm not quite sure, but I think the theories started all the way back then.

 

[zetsu banned]

Probably Punk Hazard?

First time we saw Momonosuke using his powers, and it was when his fruit was first considered a failure, but different in nature to the other SMILEs. That was crucial to have an inkling that it'd have different implications than the rest of them. I'm not quite sure, but I think the theories started all the way back then.

I remember that part, but when was the concept of a dragon related to Kaidou specifically? The closest I can think of is Kaidou's introduction chapter when it was mentioned he was captured by the WG, and people immediately linked Momo's artificial fruit to the fact that Vegapunk had time to extract his lineage factor and figure out the dragon DF. But I'm sure there was something else before then... hm.

 

[Zmsp]

I remember that part, but when was the concept of a dragon related to Kaidou specifically? The closest I can think of is Kaidou's introduction chapter when it was mentioned he was captured by the WG, and people immediately linked Momo's artificial fruit to the fact that Vegapunk had time to extract his lineage factor and figure out the dragon DF. But I'm sure there was something else before then... hm.

That's a bit subjective, because I don't think there was a big moment where the theory suddenly got a lot tighter. I really think most of the elements were present at Punk Hazard, and stuff like his captures just gave another layer to it to those that were already invested in the theory. I might be wrong, and I'm not trying to discourage you from finding the panels you want, but if memory serves correctly, most of the arguments that substantiated it were from Punk Hazard, and those were helped by the fact that we already knew that Wano was going to be inspired by Japanese culture.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Does anyone remember what moment was the big hint that Kaidou was a dragon? I know the full reveal only happened in Wano, but I know there was a big implication beforehand.

Also just want to point out, Kaidou's introduction is when I started reading so this was one of my first big predictions considering Zou was directly afterward.

I believe this happened in Punk Hazard and got more confirmation in Dressrosa. Looking back Oda honestly had given a lot of hints in Punk Hazard

Spoiler: Luffy Momo Meet

• Momo tells his story about how he became a dragon
• Momo is not happy about being a dragon
• Luffy references how he is not a zoan (maybe hint towards the Nika reveal)

Spoiler: Momo turns into dragon in front of Kinemon

• Both of them react to the mention of Kaido's name
• Momo turns into a dragon at the same time

I think this was a hint that they are connected to Kaido and that Kaido may be a dragon since we know Momo's fruit is a copy.

I think later on in Dressrosa they mention how they dislike Momo's form since it is a symbol of a hateful creature (guessing from their hatred of kaido)

 

[TitaniumOxide]

Does anyone remember what moment was the big hint that Kaidou was a dragon? I know the full reveal only happened in Wano, but I know there was a big implication beforehand.

Also just want to point out, Kaidou's introduction is when I started reading so this was one of my first big predictions considering Zou was directly afterward.

I'd argue when they introduced the beasts pirates...a crew with probably quite a few Zoans. Their captain must be a topass Zoan. That said any sort of top tiered animal can be inferred from this from Lion to Sharks or a bigass dinosaur. For me, I remember thinking... I bet he is some kind of Serpent (I think at the time I was thinking of the Leviathan). So for me that was hint # 1 because a shark is not cool enough nor is a lion even if it is the king of the jungle. Seriously who the fuck came up with that? Documentaries always show them in the savannah and open areas. No jungles? So no the boss of the beast pirates will not be some cool vicious animal that we all already know exists. Since I was a kid I always wondered where dragons came from. I ended up figuring out that dragons or serpentlike creatures with wings and horns and can breathe fire - no matter the culture where it is from, are just an amalgamation of the creatures that people feared. It has the power to fly, shoot flames, has big sharp claws, got scales, and they're huge. King of beasts for sure. To be the boss of the beasts, you gotta be a dragon.

Around that time I was also thinking of different models of dragon fruits, western vs eastern dragon. I mean come on there is a dude named Dragon so I was positive at the time his fruit would be some kind of dragon (I've since changed the way I felt) and that there'd be different dragons. Little would I know that there would be...its just that they're dinosaurs due to Chinese calligraphy.

 

[zetsu banned]

I believe this happened in Punk Hazard and got more confirmation in Dressrosa. Looking back Oda honestly had given a lot of hints in Punk Hazard

Spoiler: Luffy Momo Meet

• Momo tells his story about how he became a dragon
• Momo is not happy about being a dragon
• Luffy references how he is not a zoan (maybe hint towards the Nika reveal)

Spoiler: Momo turns into dragon in front of Kinemon

• Both of them react to the mention of Kaido's name
• Momo turns into a dragon at the same time

I think this was a hint that they are connected to Kaido and that Kaido may be a dragon since we know Momo's fruit is a copy.

I think later on in Dressrosa they mention how they dislike Momo's form since it is a symbol of a hateful creature (guessing from their hatred of kaido)

That was definitely one of the scenes I was thinking of, where Kin'emon first sees Momo's dragon form. And yeah later on when Momo I think mentions how much he hates having such a form, if anyone can find that page (I agree I think it's in Dressrosa). By that time I'm pretty sure most people were putting it together.

 

[McNuss]

The important part about Toki is obviously that the Amatsuki clan is absent from present Wano.

Prior to Orochi's uprising the Daimyo were:

Flower Capital: Kozuki Sukiyaki
Kuri: Kozuki Oden
Ringo: Shimotsuki Ushimaru
Hakumai: Shimotsuki Yasuie
Kibi: Fugetsu Omusubi
Udon: Uzuki Tempura

Banished: Kurozumi Clan

See, it does not add up!!!!

Where is the Amatsuki clan?

And this has been obvious since early Wano arc. Yet no one talks about it - proof that the community doesn't want to find out anything.

 

[thedude]

Toki died in front of people. She isn't coming back. She made the very clear choice not to live in a time different from her husband. To go back on that would be so dumb and ruin a great moment for her character.

edit: ah, i see, this was an old post. I guess you got it right and wrong. Toki's DF didn't age Momo, it was Shinobu's that did the trick, but still good call!