Chapter Tower of God Chapter 411 Discussion / 412 Predictions

[kkck]

I concede Naruto wasn’t the type, but he had taken on Jiraiya’s legacy and I thought he would take up his dad’s too. Maybe I just wanted to see more of FTG.

I think your statement about Flare Wave is correct, as it did bypass Kallavan’s toughness (and is the best technique vs a rock golem).

When you think about it, this was V’s technique and Zahard is naturally tough, so it seems to be particularly dangerous to Zahard. For Endless Sky bam was using the thorn’s ignition so it’s hard to compare the two. I agree though that Flare Wave is a risky technique which tells me V was really tough or a gutsy guy.

When was it said flare wave was V's technique? it'd be nice but I don't recall that. It makes sense for a signature fug technique to be an anti zahard move. You are right about the thorn ignition though, the comparison is not entirely relevant.

 

[Ripcord]

When was it said flare wave was V's technique? it'd be nice but I don't recall that. It makes sense for a signature fug technique to be an anti zahard move. You are right about the thorn ignition though, the comparison is not entirely relevant.

My guess is that Bam’s shinsoo quality comes from one of his parents. The HF arc training was all about tension and V and the culmination was a Flare Wave that looked like FUG’s symbol. It’s possible that Arlene used that technique but it feels more like something V would do.

 

[**Silver**]

Imagine in ToG Season 5. Baam finally defeats Zahard, he is exhausted and then suddenly Koon stabs him with his knife .

Great chapter. I said before how I found funny to read Jinsung's lines with him talking about evil and stuff while he is from FUG. I wondered if he is self-aware or if he really thinks FUG is a good thing. Since he helped Baam somehow I guess he doens't believe FUG is that good? In the end I think he doesn't care anymore.

I liked reading that line about him thinking about marriage, it implies that he is no longer motivated by revenge.

this is about different view points Jinsung has seen many things in his life, Jinsung even offered peace and solution to retreat without any casualties but both Maschenny and Kallavan refused the offering and instead started war

 

[Jack Van Burace]

My guess is that Bam’s shinsoo quality comes from one of his parents. The HF arc training was all about tension and V and the culmination was a Flare Wave that looked like FUG’s symbol. It’s possible that Arlene used that technique but it feels more like something V would do.

I don't recall It being a Flare Wave (which btw is Hwajepgongpasol, or ''subtlety"). "Flare Wave" is a close range move that disrupts Shinsoo flow inside the target to cause damage. The result of HF training is the Orb, the Shinsoo Cannon and Endless Sky. I think you got lost in translation.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 13, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 13, 2018 ---

Tbh I can't understand why official translation went with Flare Wave. "Subtlety" makes a Lot more sense since every time its used the user simply touches the target, no physical force required. The visual effect is quite stravagant but its quite clear that both Viole and Jinsung barely touch their opponents and no faces are made: its a tranquil move.

It also suits the butterfly theme on 25th Bam style. Butterflies' wings are soft touching but the famous "butterfly effect" is Said to cause earthquakes with the flapping of butterfly wings. I think this is all over SIU's original intentions on the move. Flare Wave seems to me like a commercial option only, Hwajepgongpasol should be called 'Subtlety' instead. It suits even Jinsung's character more.

 

[Ripcord]

I don't recall It being a Flare Wave (which btw is Hwajepgongpasol, or ''subtlety"). "Flare Wave" is a close range move that disrupts Shinsoo flow inside the target to cause damage. The result of HF training is the Orb, the Shinsoo Cannon and Endless Sky. I think you got lost in translation.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 13, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 13, 2018 ---

Tbh I can't understand why official translation went with Flare Wave. "Subtlety" makes a Lot more sense since every time its used the user simply touches the target, no physical force required. The visual effect is quite stravagant but its quite clear that both Viole and Jinsung barely touch their opponents and no faces are made: its a tranquil move.

It also suits the butterfly theme on 25th Bam style. Butterflies' wings are soft touching but the famous "butterfly effect" is Said to cause earthquakes with the flapping of butterfly wings. I think this is all over SIU's original intentions on the move. Flare Wave seems to me like a commercial option only, Hwajepgongpasol should be called 'Subtlety' instead. It suits even Jinsung's character more.

You’re right that Bam did discover the orb but this was just a stepping stone. I find his discovery of his own shinsoo after is rice pot more important, or at least as much as the orb.

When Bam finally decided to bust out that power he chose to use his black shinsoo with the butterfly technique. Without all the training with Eduan, I’m not sure he would have found it.

My point is that Floral Butterfly is already associated as a FUG technique and we know Bam’s parents are related to FUG. Then we see a Floral Butterfly that looks just like the FUG symbol which tells me that the members of FUG have seen that shinsoo before - it is not unique to Bam. More likely the shinsoo is from someone important to them. Because the HF arc is about Bam and V, I associated the black shinsoo with V.

I could be wrong and it’s actually Arlene’s, but as a spell user I would find it more likely that the Black March was V’s and the Rainbow Unidecember inventory was Arlene’s. She held the 13 Great Warriors together on their climb didn’t she?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 13, 2018 ---

I see what you mean - that I said culmination. That word is probably not right. But certainly Bam did use a Floral Butterfly at a pivotal moment, when he decided to fight like himself, or rather use the same shinsoo one of his parents used.

 

[kkck]

You’re right that Bam did discover the orb but this was just a stepping stone. I find his discovery of his own shinsoo after is rice pot more important, or at least as much as the orb.

When Bam finally decided to bust out that power he chose to use his black shinsoo with the butterfly technique. Without all the training with Eduan, I’m not sure he would have found it.

My point is that Floral Butterfly is already associated as a FUG technique and we know Bam’s parents are related to FUG. Then we see a Floral Butterfly that looks just like the FUG symbol which tells me that the members of FUG have seen that shinsoo before - it is not unique to Bam. More likely the shinsoo is from someone important to them. Because the HF arc is about Bam and V, I associated the black shinsoo with V.

I could be wrong and it’s actually Arlene’s, but as a spell user I would find it more likely that the Black March was V’s and the Rainbow Unidecember inventory was Arlene’s. She held the 13 Great Warriors together on their climb didn’t she?

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 13, 2018 ---

I see what you mean - that I said culmination. That word is probably not right. But certainly Bam did use a Floral Butterfly at a pivotal moment, when he decided to fight like himself, or rather use the same shinsoo one of his parents used.

I think it is too hard to say anything about the black shinsoo in that context. We don't really know what properties it has beyond it being black. In turn the orb is a fully functional weapon whose role in bam's combat is extremely clear.

When bam uses his black shisnoo he seems to use it with all of his techniques. We have even seen him use it within his orb. There is nothing we have seen that suggests special significance in regards to bam using his black shinsoo along with floral butterfly.

Spells are largely an irrelevant skill to shinsoo as far as I can tell. Arlen being good at the does not mean that was her shinsoo specialty. Her shinsoo talents (and also V's) are completely unknown to us. As are V's technically, tension seems like too generic a skill to tell us much of anything.

 

[Ripcord]

I think it is too hard to say anything about the black shinsoo in that context. We don't really know what properties it has beyond it being black. In turn the orb is a fully functional weapon whose role in bam's combat is extremely clear.

When bam uses his black shisnoo he seems to use it with all of his techniques. We have even seen him use it within his orb. There is nothing we have seen that suggests special significance in regards to bam using his black shinsoo along with floral butterfly.

Spells are largely an irrelevant skill to shinsoo as far as I can tell. Arlen being good at the does not mean that was her shinsoo specialty. Her shinsoo talents (and also V's) are completely unknown to us. As are V's technically, tension seems like too generic a skill to tell us much of anything.

I’m telling you the FUG symbol came from that black shinsoo floral butterfly (I mean ALL of us saw the similarity right away). Shinsoo quality runs in families (e.g. electricity in Koons) and since Bam is descended from two Great Warriors he probably did too. I suppose the butterfly could have been Arlene’s but it’s a risky and ruthless technique which doesn’t feel like her character, which was more about harmony and spells than shinsoo.

And FUG made Floral Butterfly their signature technique for a reason. Personally I feel it’s their way of showing Zahard that people still remember Arlene and V, even though Zahard tried to erase them.

And I will argue again about context. When I reread the manwah I see so many cases where SIU thought carefully about the setting and when to introduce things. He chose to reveal Bam’s shinsoo quality in an arc about V (whereas the FoD was more about Arlene).

Mark my words, that Floral Butterfly is a V family technique. You will see.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

I’m telling you the FUG symbol came from that black shinsoo floral butterfly (I mean ALL of us saw the similarity right away). Shinsoo quality runs in families (e.g. electricity in Koons) and since Bam is descended from two Great Warriors he probably did too. I suppose the butterfly could have been Arlene’s but it’s a risky and ruthless technique which doesn’t feel like her character, which was more about harmony and spells than shinsoo.

And FUG made Floral Butterfly their signature technique for a reason. Personally I feel it’s their way of showing Zahard that people still remember Arlene and V, even though Zahard tried to erase them.

And I will argue again about context. When I reread the manwah I see so many cases where SIU thought carefully about the setting and when to introduce things. He chose to reveal Bam’s shinsoo quality in an arc about V (whereas the FoD was more about Arlene).

Mark my words, that Floral Butterfly is a V family technique. You will see.

Well, V had an enormous tension by Edwan's statement, and also by Edwan Orbs are the best tools for people with great tension. If anything, V had to use Orbs as Shinsoo shape. I can only see him having Black Shinsoo as well, his style is all Black clothes and hair. So at least I would expect him to attack preferentially using Black Orbs.

That Black Shinsoo Hwajepgongpasol does look like FUG's symbol tho, and I do agree that FUG should be like a 10 GW family without its Head: a decadent organization that worships a fallen God of yore. So I propose another take on It: V had a frail body and Hwajepgongpasol isn't really his best move, but the way he found out How to compensate for the lack of physical toughness.

Its a gentle move, doesn't require a tough body and Works on melee. Its like a spell for mages to get away with close combat using what they got. So maybe It is a signature move of his, not because It would be his best, but rather his ace in his sleeve.

 

[kkck]

Well, V had an enormous tension by Edwan's statement, and also by Edwan Orbs are the best tools for people with great tension. If anything, V had to use Orbs as Shinsoo shape. I can only see him having Black Shinsoo as well, his style is all Black clothes and hair. So at least I would expect him to attack preferentially using Black Orbs.

That Black Shinsoo Hwajepgongpasol does look like FUG's symbol tho, and I do agree that FUG should be like a 10 GW family without its Head: a decadent organization that worships a fallen God of yore. So I propose another take on It: V had a frail body and Hwajepgongpasol isn't really his best move, but the way he found out How to compensate for the lack of physical toughness.

Its a gentle move, doesn't require a tough body and Works on melee. Its like a spell for mages to get away with close combat using what they got. So maybe It is a signature move of his, not because It would be his best, but rather his ace in his sleeve.

Eduan did say V had the best tension among companions BUT he didn't say orbs are the best tool for people with great tension. He said high tension is needed to make an orb. I doubt tension even is a skill which pertains to a specific shinsoo combat style (as in, fisherman or wave controller). Rather its a general skill which applies to everything.

If tension was a skill which pertained specifically to wave controllers or shinsoo control then logically V would have been the best wave controller among the companions. Also, look at the role tension played during the hidden floor. The gang learned their shinsoo's qualities. Learning them makes shinsoo easier to control and make larger bangs as eduan demonstrated. Which in turn provided a significant power boost to every single regular who mastered this. Aguero, androsi, rak... All got a significant tension boost. And their skills are not necessarily that of a wave controller.

Which fug symbol are you talking about?

Thats the only fug symbol I recall.... Unless that is supposed to be a black orb of sorts? That'd be weird.

That said, the idea that V symbolism and... easter eggs if you will are all around fug makes sense. But there are a few things to consider. The flare wave is a signature of fug but it is taught by jinsung. And jinsung goes all "I AM A SPECIAL HA" when using his ultimate move on kallavan. So which is it? Is this a special ha move or a V move? Both? Does that make sense? Jinsung is incredibly old and has enormous influence within fug as even slayers and elders are wary of him so it would make sense that he was actually the one that introduced the technique. I proposed earlier that the technique was perhaps meant to primarily deal with those who have particularly tough bodies. Which fits pretty well with jinsung as well.

That said, if V was the one who came up with the technique originally it would make sense for fug to adopt it. As everyone within fug would (only in theory) have a technique meant to kill zahard. But as far as killing zahard goes, that goes regardless of who brought that technique to fug.

As a side note, while the technique does not require strength or a tough body I do think those are important for someone who uses the technique. The as explained in the series causes you to lower your guard. It leaves you basically defenseless. If it works you basically succeeded and exploding your enemy from the inside (though data zahard and kallavan somehow survived this). If it doesn't work and you are up against a physically powerful enemy you are probably taking a few hits. So having a tough body that can take punishment is a huge advantage. A tough body significantly compensates for the technique's main risks.

 

[Ripcord]

Eduan did say V had the best tension among companions BUT he didn't say orbs are the best tool for people with great tension. He said high tension is needed to make an orb. I doubt tension even is a skill which pertains to a specific shinsoo combat style (as in, fisherman or wave controller). Rather its a general skill which applies to everything.

If tension was a skill which pertained specifically to wave controllers or shinsoo control then logically V would have been the best wave controller among the companions. Also, look at the role tension played during the hidden floor. The gang learned their shinsoo's qualities. Learning them makes shinsoo easier to control and make larger bangs as eduan demonstrated. Which in turn provided a significant power boost to every single regular who mastered this. Aguero, androsi, rak... All got a significant tension boost. And their skills are not necessarily that of a wave controller.

Which fug symbol are you talking about?

Thats the only fug symbol I recall.... Unless that is supposed to be a black orb of sorts? That'd be weird.

That said, the idea that V symbolism and... easter eggs if you will are all around fug makes sense. But there are a few things to consider. The flare wave is a signature of fug but it is taught by jinsung. And jinsung goes all "I AM A SPECIAL HA" when using his ultimate move on kallavan. So which is it? Is this a special ha move or a V move? Both? Does that make sense? Jinsung is incredibly old and has enormous influence within fug as even slayers and elders are wary of him so it would make sense that he was actually the one that introduced the technique. I proposed earlier that the technique was perhaps meant to primarily deal with those who have particularly tough bodies. Which fits pretty well with jinsung as well.

That said, if V was the one who came up with the technique originally it would make sense for fug to adopt it. As everyone within fug would (only in theory) have a technique meant to kill zahard. But as far as killing zahard goes, that goes regardless of who brought that technique to fug.

As a side note, while the technique does not require strength or a tough body I do think those are important for someone who uses the technique. The as explained in the series causes you to lower your guard. It leaves you basically defenseless. If it works you basically succeeded and exploding your enemy from the inside (though data zahard and kallavan somehow survived this). If it doesn't work and you are up against a physically powerful enemy you are probably taking a few hits. So having a tough body that can take punishment is a huge advantage. A tough body significantly compensates for the technique's main risks.

Bam’s butterfly had a pattern just like the FUG symbol you posted.