Discussion Underrated and Overrated

[ChinkyCandie]

Noticed that too.

 

[-Ken-]

I don't understand how can someone be overrated or underrated based on their personality? You mean people like or dislike a certain type of personality too much or too little?

In that case, I'm pretty sure Rikkai is overrated. Their strength is high, yes, so i won't say they're overrated as a tennis team. But there you got someone who enjoy hurting others, who abandon his promise to a friend so he can just beat one guy, and someone who knock someone out in the head (that actually make them faint) on purpose.

 

[ybr99]

Maybe he meant popularity?

 

[felixng2011]

Rikkai did have 7 tezuka level players it was just the tezuka with the injured elbow, which is considerably weaker. And it would not have been a blowout. Inui was able to take 4 games off that level tezuka and with a little BS he can win. Fuji "surpassed" tezuka. Ryoma can't lose so them winning is not that far fetched.

Injured elbow Tezuka is better than everyone on Kanto Rikkaidai except Sanada and maybee Akaya. Inui studied Tezuka for several years in order to have a chance of beating him and if Tezuka started out with Tezuka Zone Inui may have won 0 games.

Fuji surpassing Tezuka is debatable, since its not a guarantee that Akaya could have even beaten Tezuka. Its been stated that Fuji has "surpassed Tezuka" several times but there was never a point where it was conclusive that Fuji surpassed Tezuka (unless you count their match when Tezuka was injured). Fuji would have even loss against the Niou version of Tezuka with a 3-0 handicap lead if he only knew how to use zero shiki drop serve.

So yea I actually don't see much of an argument for Tezuka being overrated because he has actually been downplayed quite a few times.

 

[ybr99]

They are all in the same tier as injured elbow tezuka. Tezuka might be better but not by an overwhelming amount.

 

[Phantron]

Rikkai is overrated as they're most definitely not a school of '7 Tezukas', not even 7 Tezukas with an injured elbow. Let's put it this way, had Seigaku been able to field a team of 7 Tezukas instead, the most likely outcome would be Seigaku 3-0 due to the order they have to play. Sanada can definitely beat Tezuka at that point, and Akaya is probably a 50/50 proposition since he's been training to beat Tezuka, though I think it'd have to be less than 50% because based on the dialogue it seems like Sanada considers him as not quite ready for Tezuka, and if he's supposed to be 50/50 with Tezuka it wouldn't make sense why he has to specially train for Tezuka since Tezuka sure isn't training to defeat any specific opponent in mind. The rest of the Rikkai would likely get blown out against the 5 other Tezukas. Yanagi would run into a standard 'I can't collect Tezuka's data!!!' deal, and there are plenty of examples in POT showing that 2 guys who are strong enough by themselves with minimal coordination (we'll assume Tezuka doesn't gain additional doubles ability for having 2 of himself) compared to 2 inferior guys with excellent coordination. Besides, Tezuka isn't exactly a non-team-player like Ryoma is. Sure Inui just got out of the way in the only doubles game Tezuka played but that's because he's nowhere on Tezuka's league so he didn't want to get in the way, not because Tezuka can't be a team player.

 

[ybr99]

They are slightly overrated. what about niou he tricked everybody and beat the golden pair

 

[-Ken-]

Same tier doesn't necessary mean that a character can beat another character. It's just that the difference between them are not great enough to be worth a tier difference. I don't think Fuwa can beat Mouri based to what we've seen, and they are both in the same tier. Yes, majority of Rikkai will get dominated by Tezuka even with his injured elbow. But if they lose 6-4 or something that's pretty decent in itself.

 

[ybr99]

Yagyuu and jackal i think are one tier below. Laser would be ineffective against tezuka zone 6-0. Jackal even in doubles is not at the same level. 6-1 or maybe 6-2 in doubles.

---------- Post added at 07:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 PM ----------

I think everyone else is same tier.

 

[Fuuji Genichiro]

yeah, just glad we can all agree that chitose loses to momo, that said nobody like's fuuji because we think he's better than anybody, we like him because of they way he plays tennis, we also love fuuji because he can be beaten, what i mean is, he doesnt just randomly get super saiyan powerups because fuckit, im ryoma/tezuka, he loses, and comes back a better fuuji.
Also, i think people take him saying he's gonna stay ahead of tezuka WAAAAY out of context, he wasnt implying tht he was currently better, he was implying that his old ambition was to "catch up" now "catching up" isnt enough for him,, he wants to "surpass him and think bigger" . THAT is what i think he meant, but fuck thinking outside the box. this is why fuuji isnt underrated, he earns his genius title in my opinion.
I agree with him being the best no.2 btw, although he has competition from sanada.

i changed my view about tezuka bieng overated somewhat, because it seems he's finally learned how to play actuall tennis, instead of permanently saccing his career to beat one guy, and ryoma is overrated because the author has gotten somewhat lazy in keeping him interesting, i think by now we can identify a "ryoma moment" stereotype why he goes out all humble looking and people underestimat him, then he looks "cool" beating up some weakling, or we can just reference dragonball to describe his entire character , this is a rare occasion where i can agree with chinky (fuuji rulez :P )

now for the guy who mentioned kenya, he WOULD be a decent character, but kikumaru never made the u14 team so stay forgotten bro

"real men play doubles" - a real man

---------- Post added at 08:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:13 PM ----------

im not a rikkai fanboy, but injured tezuka isnt anybody to beat, the seigaku members (except fuuji )(including ryoma) were just weaklings in the grand scheme of things. I do admit however that seigaku had pretty decent doubles with momo/kaidoh and golden pair. i thought the coach would just spam those two pairs with the big three and walk through the tournment



i guess all POT coaches are bad at picking teams

---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:20 PM ----------

Yagyuu and jackal i think are one tier below. Laser would be ineffective against tezuka zone 6-0. Jackal even in doubles is not at the same level. 6-1 or maybe 6-2 in doubles.

---------- Post added at 07:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 PM ----------

I think everyone else is same tier.

no, you misunderstand, laser KILLS tezuka zone, thats the point of hitting a ball in a straight line and jackal earns my respect for pulling a boomerang vs kaidoh. in fact, it was essentially jackal that wins the games for marui as without such an adept baseliner, kaidoh and momo would simply laugh at marui for sucking at everything else but volleying, maybe so hard they pass out, forfeiting the game. good strategy

 

[ybr99]

First i still think chitose can beat momo but we are way past that.
Second if eiji can return laser tezuka can also and if yagyuu decides to hit it to the the sides and not directly to tezuka than tezuka zone will bring it to tezuka to hit back.
Third jackal is good but not the same level.
Fourth bunta can is a genius at doubles. Jackal rallies it and bunta finishes it.

 

[felixng2011]

They are all in the same tier as injured elbow tezuka. Tezuka might be better but not by an overwhelming amount.

Thats like saying they are the same tier as Atobe which clearly is not the case. The doubles guys frankly are a tier lower quite easily. Now if you are talking about Tezuka who couldn't even raise his shoulder (post Atobe match) then obviously they are Tezuka level +. That version of Tezuka sucked so badly that he got 6-0ed by some scrubs.

 

[ybr99]

Here's how i think it is for rikkai seigaku and atobe.

Sanada
Atobe

Tezuka
Fuji
Ryoma
Renji
Akaya
Niou
Bunta
Inui

Jackal
Yagyuu
Kaidou
Momo
Eiji
Kawamura

Oishi












Horio

 

[Phantron]

As of Kantou, Sanada and Tezuka are supposed to be on another tier compared to Atobe. The only reason Atobe's strategy worked was because Tezuka had a serious injury. Otherwise Tezuka could've beat him even in an endurance match, and of course Sanada is said to have no problem beating Atobe in an endurance match as well. So neither characters even need to have a special plan to beat Atobe at his best type of game. Of course, since Tezuka is perpetually injured I guess you can say he should be lower than Atobe in reality. Still, I see no problem with Tezuka winning 6-3 or even 6-1 range against the so called '7 Tezukas' of Rikkai.

Keep in mind in real life a score like 6-4 6-4 6-4 is pretty dominant because that means the loser probably never broke the winner's serve. It's true that POT doesn't care much for realism, but suppose Konomi told us that Kantou Tezuka played Renji and won 6-3, there's no reason to believe that if they played say 10 more games that the most likely outcome wouldn't be some variation of 6-2/6-3/6-4. Out of Rikkai I only see Akaya and Sanada capable of breaking Tezuka's serve.

 

[ybr99]

Atobe exploits people's weaknesses. So as of kantou atobe is a little better than tezuka.

---------- Post added at 01:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 AM ----------

Tezuka is better than most of rikkai but most of rikkai is on the same tier as him.

 

[ChinkyCandie]

You can be overrated by personality simply because of what they do can piss you off, like what Ken said with Rikkaidai members. Personality alone, I find Momo overrated. You can find personality/popularity to be overrated - basically anything that annoys you.
If you want to be more specific to strength, then the topic should be overestimated vs underestimated.

Another overrated person with personality problems is Horio lol

 

[ybr99]

Back to the momo/chitose part. Quick question.
Is momo's BJK weaker than oni's. I think it is. His power is lower and oni has perfected it so he gets the most power possible out of it. If it is weaker than that would explain why it didn't break 18/19 wrists.

 

[Phantron]

Momoshiro probably isn't strong enough to break people's wrists with BJK but it's at least enough for a racket busting move. In POT it usually looks like people totally change up their game after encountering a racket busting move, probably because unless you're Atobe you can't afford to be losing a racket on every rally and this has an adverse effect on how the game plays out, even if a racket-busting move technically is only one point and shouldn't be any more dangerous than say having a killer serve.

 

[-Ken-]

Back to the momo/chitose part. Quick question.
Is momo's BJK weaker than oni's. I think it is. His power is lower and oni has perfected it so he gets the most power possible out of it. If it is weaker than that would explain why it didn't break 18/19 wrists.

Well, it's quite hard to say. #18-#19 are both probably better than Momoshiro as a tennis player before he start his training. Both of them probably can handle BJK better than Momoshiro at the beginning of the camp. I do think it is likely that Momoshiro BJK is not as good as Oni, if it is I say Chitose chance of winning are 10% at best.

BJK impact isn't only that it breaks racquet though. It also numb the name of the opponents, which can be seen various times in PoT with JK (If JK can numb it, a stronger version of the same move is extremely likely to do the same). A numb hand means less control on a ball. Getting hit by too many BJK, if you don't have enough tech or power to handle it, can be dangerous.

 

[Fuuji Genichiro]

are still on this? unreturnable shots are unreturnable, and keeping momo from hitting the sweet spot will be hard, considering that he can simply spam them after the serve
you will need some atobe/fuuji brilliance or raw toyama like power to beat momoshiro

---------- Post added at 09:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 PM ----------

its sad when POT can matches can be predicted by one sided unreturnable spam when players are roughly equal in skill,
i regret the moment POT became another superpower anime, miss the days when boomerang was THE shit