Politics United States Presidential Election Thread

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miyi

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No. That wasn't. I was honestly saying no president has seriously considered striking down the Constitution and starting a dictatorship. I may not like the Bush Administration and think they may be expanding the Executive Branch's power ridiculously but I doubt they are trying to start a military junta. What you just did in fact was take my quote out of context.

I said:

Had that been a sarcastic comment, it would have contradicted the entire meaning of my post. Why would I do that?

Regarding Idell:
That candidates have known about the book since July.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/01/ifills_book_is_no_secret.html

The only reason this is coming up is because Drudge made it his headline. Both parties have had plenty of time to voice concern about this.
my apologies...I mis-read your comment.

as to the Gwen Ifill controversy...hmm, if McCain already expressed his approval, then I guess it's a non-issue. Fair enough.

Besides, I've watched her on PBS before, and she's alright. Too bad I won't be able to see the debates (is it tonight or tomorrow?)...I guess I'll just watch it on C-span.org.

oh and while we're discussing politics, supposedly they'll try to pass the "revised" bailout/rescue (whichever term you want to use) package tonight on the House. I hope they reject it....Wall Street just needs to deal with it being rejected. They need to get a bailout from a non-government source, because I'm not about to pay to save their asses. I heard from one expert that we should expect to pay, per individual, at least $17,000 if this bailout/rescue bill passes. That's absurd!
 
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redcometfm

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Well Im sorry if I feel that Obama could impose and try to transform our democratic-economic systems to mirror socialism, and could bring down our country in terms of power (financially and otherwise). If Im going to witness this man take down our country because its not his vision of a "nice" nation or whatever bullshit he and his wife believe, Im not going to stand by, I will do what I can to get him out of power and re-instate the government. The man is utterly naive and has the power to really fuck things up, its just insanely scary. And it doesnt help that the democrats essentially control congress and can postpone decisions to meet their political grand scheme (ie Obama). Actions and statements by Pelosi and her pals are evidence enough of corruption in the democratic congress. If that extends to our presidency, via Obama, God help this country...

And yes I edited my post because you replied with that asshole retort, something you took whole advantage of and put spin on because my comment happened to be a little vague in its wording. Im sure if you had something similar about Bush (and as badly worded) and someone said that FBI threat to you, I doubt youd act any different.
 

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Well Im sorry if I feel that Obama could impose and try to transform our democratic-economic systems to mirror socialism, and could bring down our country in terms of power (financially and otherwise). If Im going to witness this man take down our country because its not his vision of a "nice" nation or whatever bullshit he and his wife believe, Im not going to stand by, I will do what I can to get him out of power and re-in
And yes I edited my post because you replied with that asshole retort, something you took whole advantage of and put spin on because my comment happened to be a little vague in its wording. Im sure if you had something similar about Bush (and as badly worded) and someone said that FBI threat to you, I doubt youd act any different.
Don't get angry at me, man. 1. I was being obviously sarcastic, pointing out the fact you might want to avoid discussing joining a group to forcefully take Barack Obama out of power. 2. I try to avoid making such statements, because that's where free speech crosses the line into intent to assassinate. And that'll land you in Gitmo. I didn't have to spin your statement at all. There was nothing "vague" about your post at all: you said that you were going to join a group using your Second Amendment rights to take out Barack Obama. That is exactly what you said.

The Second Amendment's exact wording:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
No matter what way you construe the 2nd Amendment, whether it is the right to bear arms (ie own guns) or the right to join a militia, what you said was insane.

All of my posts follow a simple guideline: I don't type anything I wouldn't scream out my window. So I would act different. I would leave the post there.

EDIT: I just noticed you country tag says you live in Portugal. I know that the economic crisis will have international effects, but come on? Are you seriously going to go after a foreign head of state?
 
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redcometfm

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EDIT: I just noticed you country tag says you live in Portugal. I know that the economic crisis will have international effects, but come on? Are you seriously going to go after a foreign head of state?
You know how it is online, sarcasm is hard to read sometimes.

Ill support an effort to remove Obama from office if he becomes president and things get really bad. If I didnt, Id be a lazy, hypocritical European. Unlike some of the rest of us here (cough French cough) Ill actually be pro-active in my political participation. The U.S. market is tied to the Global market like veins and arteries and you just cant let one weaken or the whole system suffers.
 

manu

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I take objection to that, I may have my off days but I think I can stand by 50% of my claims confidently. Not the best of track records but I've only used the Kos once.

Economic crisis withstanding, it seems that nobody can predict the future on this one so I'm not going to even bother anymore. Somebody pointed out that the 30 man staff of the Treasury department can spend 700 billion in foreign markets if they deemed fit. This doesn't sound like it will happen but it doesn't sit right with me. From the sounds of it the money may not be too helpful to Americans regardless. Its kind of a tough issue but I will say that I hate the way Americans are being scared into it. I feel like this is the Iraq war all over again and those in position of power are voting in line and only those with nothing to lose politically are opposing the bailout/rescue.

One part of the democrat in me says spend but the other part is in a bind, isn't it redundant to tax the wealthy if we keep giving them money? (attempt in humor)
 

redcometfm

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Funny how they thought the markets would crash if we didnt get 700 billion last sunday and the economy survived, but they still had to press it. We might actually be better off not having it...unless theres a strong delayed reaction of effects happening here.
 

manu

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Uh... biggest single day drop ever. Lower stocks then when Bush was in office. Yeah I would call that a crash, sure we didn't burn as a country but it was still the biggest crash ever. As for delayed reactions... we have to assume that nobody will see it coming but I do expect massive layoffs to happen and its already starting at the banks so just wait for it to hit locally soon.
 

miyi

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Don't get angry at me, man. 1. I was being obviously sarcastic, pointing out the fact you might want to avoid discussing joining a group to forcefully take Barack Obama out of power. 2. I try to avoid making such statements, because that's where free speech crosses the line into intent to assassinate. And that'll land you in Gitmo. I didn't have to spin your statement at all. There was nothing "vague" about your post at all: you said that you were going to join a group using your Second Amendment rights to take out Barack Obama. That is exactly what you said.

The Second Amendment's exact wording:

No matter what way you construe the 2nd Amendment, whether it is the right to bear arms (ie own guns) or the right to join a militia, what you said was insane.

All of my posts follow a simple guideline: I don't type anything I wouldn't scream out my window. So I would act different. I would leave the post there.

EDIT: I just noticed you country tag says you live in Portugal. I know that the economic crisis will have international effects, but come on? Are you seriously going to go after a foreign head of state?
ok, since we're in the business of analyzing other people's quotes, let me add my 2 cents.

what redcometfm said was:

Miyi, its days like these that I truly appreciate and plan on potentially using my 2nd Amendment rights. I will NOT let Obama fuck this country up and Im willing to join a group to stop him if he somehow tries to fight to stay in power. Democratic corruption in our government is insane, almost beyond reproach and enough is enough.
a more objective interpretation of his quote, without taking it out of context, and I'll attempt to paraphrase it, would be this:

If Obama refuses to relinquish power while in office, and have reached a point where he has corrupted government, I am willing to join a group to try to oust him, and use my 2nd Amendment right if necessary.


Nowhere did he actually mention the word "assassinate".

But for argument's sake, let's assume he "implied" the assassination of Obama.

if you want to get really legal here, having made such a comment will not "land [him] on Gitmo".

Read Brandenburg v. Ohio, here:

http://www.answers.com/topic/brandenburg-v-ohio

in laymans term, what it means is that, government cannot regulate an individual's right to "free speech", unless the speech advocates an illegal action that will occur imminently.

the operative word there, is "imminent".

Which is why the KKK are granted free speech rights, so long as they don't incite or advocate any illegal act that will pose harm to someone else, or group of people, in an imminent situation.

Which is why all this political correctness crap....it's a form of social censorship that has no actual power in law.....although it's quite powerful because it can ostracize people, easily.....i.e. Don Imus.


But....seeing how redcometfm lives in Portugal, I don't see why any of this is relevant...unless US law somehow applies in Portugal.

which is why reprimanding him in the first place, is rather silly.

/offtopic



on topic:

here's an excellent article by the LA Times yesterday about the bailout, ridiculing both the GOP and Democrats, I think quite fairly:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-goldberg30-2008sep30,0,2477888.column?track=rss


and I think he makes an important point....the truth is, neither candidates have a clue how to handle the economy.

The only point I disagree with the author with, is in supporting this bailout, which I think is crap.

speaking of which, it's already been passed tonight in the Senate...they'll attempt to try again to pass it in the House, I think this Friday. Chances are, it would get passed, this time.
 
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manu

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I don't mean to de-emphasize the current economic crisis, although I would argue that Democrats have in fact, been blowing it out of proportion, which is actually counter-productive and making people less and less inclined to spend, which in turn hurts the economy.
I said Obama was equating this crisis to the Great Depression, not Democrats....I try hard not to lump people together...from what I understand, there are a lot of Democrats and Republicans against this bailout, for the very same reasons that a lot of American citizens are concerned how it will impact on their taxes.
^Just something that nagged me, both are miyi's quotes and besides the fact you believe he hasn't experienced enough Obama is proving that his intellect is more than enough to lead.

Also you believe McCain has released his medical records but you would be wrong. He released them in 1999. If that is current enough for you and you honestly believe Palin was a choice made with the countries best interest in mind then your faith in this man's well being is truly astounding and very commendable.
 

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^Just something that nagged me, both are miyi's quotes and besides the fact you believe he hasn't experienced enough Obama is proving that his intellect is more than enough to lead.

Also you believe McCain has released his medical records but you would be wrong. He released them in 1999. If that is current enough for you and you honestly believe Palin was a choice made with the countries best interest in mind then your faith in this man's well being is truly astounding and very commendable.
wait, what? I don't get it.

Democrats as in, those in the House and Senate. If you want specifics, I'm referring to people such as Pelosi and Harry Reid.

btw, did you actually go through all my comments just to figure that one out?



as to McCain's age, look...here's how I see it. I'm more comfortable in the fact that McCain, in my opinion, is the President we need at this specific time/period.....that trumps all concerns I have, whether it's his age, or Sarah Palin being potentially second in line to lead, in case McCain doesn't make it.

That's all there is to it.
 

manu

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Funny thing is that I was actually rereading comments to remember your points against Obama. Actually have a journalistic paper due soon so wanted to see what your cases against him were again. So yes i reread but not for that reason. The whole line you had about how we won't be in a depression when now everyone isn't sure to be scared and your line about McCain's medical records being released were just some stuff I caught while rereading that felt out of place in conversation now but I still feel is important.

I don't question McCain's best interest but this isn't a man I trust to follow through on his positions. Only because I have met McCain supporters who expect two very different men for him to be. If you can tell me which McCain would be President maybe then I would be a little less weary. Until then its fun to listen him and Palin frantically try to remember what lines they're being fed.

Obama is an pet project for America, and his supporters aren't denying that they mostly have no idea what to expect. We just expect change and hope it turns out alright but what more can you ask from a politician.
 

miyi

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Funny thing is that I was actually rereading comments to remember your points against Obama. Actually have a journalistic paper due soon so wanted to see what your cases against him were again. So yes i reread but not for that reason. The whole line you had about how we won't be in a depression when now everyone isn't sure to be scared and your line about McCain's medical records being released were just some stuff I caught while rereading that felt out of place in conversation now but I still feel is important.

I don't question McCain's best interest but this isn't a man I trust to follow through on his positions. Only because I have met McCain supporters who expect two very different men for him to be. If you can tell me which McCain would be President maybe then I would be a little less weary. Until then its fun to listen him and Palin frantically try to remember what lines they're being fed.

Obama is an pet project for America, and his supporters aren't denying that they mostly have no idea what to expect. We just expect change and hope it turns out alright but what more can you ask from a politician.
we won't be in a depression, because the only thing that it will affect immediately are those who heavily invested in the subprime mortgage business, a majority of which are banks, and which also means that it will subsequently affect those who rely on "credit".

If you're one of those people who can survive without having to borrow money (i.e. credit card), then you'll be fine.

It will hurt all of us, in varying levels/degree, depends on "who" (like I said, it's those bankers, those Wall Street speculators, etc.)

a lot of people lost money, that's the bottom line, and those screaming and begging for a bailout tends to be those losing this kind of money.

you know what? screw them. That's my opinion.

The reason why the market is crashing as never before, is because we've never had an economy as inflated as it is today, particularly in the housing market.

I won't go into the details since I'm no economics expert. But we still have positive growth in the economy, albeit not very much. We might even expect to go on the negative....very likely.

Lots of people will lose jobs, all of this can be true.

My larger point, that you seem not to get, is that the people in leadership positions, such as Pelosi, Reid, Obama, McCain, or Bush...they're job is not to add fuel to an otherwise flammable situation as it is. In times of panic, leaders are to make us calm, offer possible solutions.....anything but to add more panic.

The only reason why Pelosi and Reid and Obama have blown things out of proportion in recent months, is because it's politically expedient of them to ascribe all the blame on the party in power, which happens to be the GOP, and Pres. Bush.

Keep in mind, these people want to be re-elected (and I believe the Senate and House will be doing that soon).



As to the health records thing....I forgot where I read the article from, and I'm too lazy to dig it up....but I believe they have in fact released it, while McCain is already campaigning for President. Which, if you want to stretch it, is since 2007. Still quite recent.

But you can double check, like I said, it's a non-issue for me.



The case against Barack Obama, in my opinion?

it's simple. Foreign policy.

His idea of foreign policy is so different from mines, just as the gap between pro-choice and pro-lifers.

I believe that world conflict is like a chess game. The goal is to check-mate with as minimum a move as possible.

You usually win from a position of strength.

Obama wants to win from a position of weakness.......because he'll tell you that America is such a bully.

He will grant UN more power than it already has.....have you heard about the World Poverty Act, a legislation he helped write?

He promises to act in a multilateral fashion.

You see, part of the reason why we ignore the Darfur genocide and we don't do anything about it, is because China, Russia, and all these countries in the UN with "veto" power, opposes intervention in Darfur....why? because China, for instance, has a vested interest there. They are selling arms, and have an oil contract in Sudan.

The same was true when they opposed our intervention in Iraq in 2003.....Saddam Hussein all owed Germany, Russia, China and France, a lot of money from weapons sales funded during the Gulf War.

the UN has granted countries like Sudan, seats in "Human Rights Commision"....for crying out loud, a country blatantly guilty of genocide, and you'll give that country a seat in a human rights commision? give me a break!

and so when the UN denounces human rights abuses happening elsewhere in the world, don't be surprised if they skip Sudan.

Obama either does not have a clue, or wants it to happen....to make America subject to the demands of the UN aka world community.

Sorry, but my foreign policy's emphasis is whatever advances our national interest, so long as we do it under international rules as necessary.

Placating the world community is only secondary to my priorities.
 

manu

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Interesting point, in that respect I can understand why somebody isn't completely outraged by this administration. That being said the point I'm picking up is that you prefer if America still acted as if it is, will be now and forever more the one super power and world cop. Unfortunately for us this isn't going to be true very quickly, we are about to enter a world where China is our economic equal with Russia becoming the military power of Cold War era again. Which scenario do you see playing out 4 or 5 years down the road in which President McCain is faced with a disaster we can't handle alone and we need help. Do you see McCain as the right leader in a multipower world? Or is that not an issue for you, maybe I'm missing out in an important secret about how America can regain its glory.

Sorta on topic, my article on Presidential blemishes. I'm supposed to cut this by half and haven't even touched on half the topics I wanted too but I think I'm being objective with this.

Digging the Dirt

November 4th the most influential man is voted into office. John McCain and Barack Obama have both made their case about why they are the best man for the job to lead this country, while undermining the achievement of their opponent.
Each candidate has run on a mantra that is easy to remember, relatable with the public and exactly what we wanted to hear. Obama preaches Change and McCain promises Reform. Both are reputable enough to make such claims yet each has a skeleton’s in the closet that they don’t want the American public to hear about.
The platform of America’s Maverick John McCain is built on reform and accountability. He has challenged corruption and battled for transparency among lawmakers. Quoted directly from JohnMcCain.com, “John McCain has fought the good fight against the practices that alienate the public from their elected leaders. He has fought for public disclosure of those who lobby lawmakers for a living, and to prohibit them from providing gifts to elected officials.”
Additionally they state, “He has fought for an independent ethics office in Congress to help restore the public's faith in the integrity of the legislative branch.” To argue that McCain has made progress in ethic reform would be ludicrous but the real problem with his promise with reform is McCain standards would have put him in a prison cell.
McCain’s view in politics is that as elected officials serving the interest of the American public it is inexcusable to accept campaign contributions, and then take actions to benefit the donator. Doing so would be corrupt. Thankfully for McCain when he was investigated in 1991 by the Senate Select Committee on Ethics for corruption they didn’t hold him up to the same standards.
McCain along with four other senators no longer in office where indicted for accepting payouts from Lincoln Savings & Loan Association and its owner, Charles H. Keating, Jr. and then using their positions to keep their pal Keating out of trouble. This scandal is infamously known as the Keating 5. The investigation began after the Senators used their powers to dissuade Federal Home Loan Bank Board officials from dealing with the inadequate Lincoln bank. These actions led to the collapse of the bank which cost taxpayers millions according to the National Review.
What makes this a stinker for McCain is that in the committee’s final report they accused McCain for acting in Keating special interest because the amount of $56,000 was paid for Senator McCain's two House races in 1982 and 1984, and $54,000 for his 1986 Senate race.
Now Obama would like America to believe he’s different from the eight years of Bush and that McCain would be bringing more of the same. These claims are being challenged by the curious list of donors Obama has though, and for the public some may be appalling.
Obama has been repeatedly tied to terrorism, most of which is malarkey. To the dismay of many followers Obama and radical left Bill Ayers, a man connected with a bombing attacks in the United States, were on Chicago nonprofit the Woods Fund together. To say Obama is corroborating with terrorists is a lie but the fact remains there is one connection.
During his political career Obama has made choice relationships that were not illegal themselves but largely contradictory to the mantra of Change. Rezko is the biggest liability, in which Obama would work with in his career and eventually purchase his house with the help of the now convicted felon.
Thorough investigations have only pointed to campaign contributions and not payoffs so far. The fact the felon is suggested to contribute $100,000 is disturbing. Obama though made the decision after the conviction of Rezko to refund all contributions to charities but the fact remains Obama has been in bed with the corrupt.
So yeah, I'm attempting to make a fair paper yet at the same time put my underlying intentions in their. McCain's part is first and strongly worded. Both candidates have paid off the donations yet I only mention Obama's etc. So yeah I spent all summer reading the liberal media, thought I'd give it a shot.
 
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Digital_Eon

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Well Im sorry if I feel that Obama could impose and try to transform our democratic-economic systems to mirror socialism, and could bring down our country in terms of power (financially and otherwise).
A bit late, and off-topic, but: what's so bad about socialism again? I've been hearing so many comments (from Americans and Canadians alike - Canadians! What the hell?) about how they don't want to end up living in a socialist state. Considering that any possible reforms at this point are not going to end up making the US into a Communist nation AND the current economic situation... too much fearmongering; not enough common sense.

By that country, do you mean the US? America has already lost power for many reasons; it no longer has the status or power that it used to. If you mean some other country... that's a bit of an overreaction.

I'm barely even close to being as educated as everyone here on these topics, but from what I've been reading (I'll grant that it's "left-wing media" - mostly TIME and the Toronto Star), I'm a bit concerned about McCain. He seems to have discarded the 'maverick' title and gone for the usual attack ads and blatant lies that disappoint me so much in elections. While I'm aware that Obama's campaign is far from innocent on that topic too, it just seems so much worse with McCain; heck, even the VP candidate pick seems to have been for the superficial publicity rather than substance. To me, it's like that campaign is more concerned with McCain becoming President at all costs than doing things fairly, honourably, and heck, being a good President. Again, I know Obama's campaign has done some of the same, although not to that extent.

Considering we have a federal election up here in a few weeks with something of a similar pattern - okay, the Conservatives have a clear advantage compared to the severely weakened Liberals, but the attack-at-all-costs mentality exists here, too - I find it very concerning... even more so that it seems to work. Does anyone else agree on how dirty a technique it seems to be? Is it really worth sinking so low just to gain some votes? Does it hurt a candidate in anyone's eyes to be doing such a thing?
 

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A bit late, and off-topic, but: what's so bad about socialism again? I've been hearing so many comments (from Americans and Canadians alike - Canadians! What the hell?) about how they don't want to end up living in a socialist state. Considering that any possible reforms at this point are not going to end up making the US into a Communist nation AND the current economic situation... too much fearmongering; not enough common sense.

By that country, do you mean the US? America has already lost power for many reasons; it no longer has the status or power that it used to. If you mean some other country... that's a bit of an overreaction.

I'm barely even close to being as educated as everyone here on these topics, but from what I've been reading (I'll grant that it's "left-wing media" - mostly TIME and the Toronto Star), I'm a bit concerned about McCain. He seems to have discarded the 'maverick' title and gone for the usual attack ads and blatant lies that disappoint me so much in elections. While I'm aware that Obama's campaign is far from innocent on that topic too, it just seems so much worse with McCain; heck, even the VP candidate pick seems to have been for the superficial publicity rather than substance. To me, it's like that campaign is more concerned with McCain becoming President at all costs than doing things fairly, honourably, and heck, being a good President. Again, I know Obama's campaign has done some of the same, although not to that extent.

Considering we have a federal election up here in a few weeks with something of a similar pattern - okay, the Conservatives have a clear advantage compared to the severely weakened Liberals, but the attack-at-all-costs mentality exists here, too - I find it very concerning... even more so that it seems to work. Does anyone else agree on how dirty a technique it seems to be? Is it really worth sinking so low just to gain some votes? Does it hurt a candidate in anyone's eyes to be doing such a thing?
You live in a socialist state so of course youre fine with. Youre not used to being a super power or having to protect many other nations and do other things for them through your own people's blood, sweat and money. You have that European-isolationist mentality, and its not productive, but I dont blame you because again your country isnt the one having to worry about the kind of issues the U.S. does.

America is the superpower. It has not lost its status, despite whatever is going on. Becoming socialist will weaken its power. And with corrupt democratic politicians in power, socialism (with its implied increased government interference) is a dangerous notion. And Ill be damned if I witness it happen and let some corrupt politician abuse it, especially if their name is Pelosi (bitch).

Like you said youre not as educated as us on this and as such, youre not able to form a good opinion (instead regurgitating what TIME and the liberal left-wing biased papers of Canada tell you) so do more research like we do from multiple political perspectives and formulate your thoughts on the matter again.
 

manu

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lol... u theenk ur smrt. dat wuz perty rood.

Seriously though, calm down and think about what you say. You haven't brought anything in the discussion but hate and if you have a recommendation be less condesending about it please.
 

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I had no malice in my words but I also had no bullshit. I prefer honesty. Not politically correct tosh.
 

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You live in a socialist state so of course youre fine with. Youre not used to being a super power or having to protect many other nations and do other things for them through your own people's blood, sweat and money. You have that European-isolationist mentality, and its not productive, but I dont blame you because again your country isnt the one having to worry about the kind of issues the U.S. does.
What? Sorry, last time I checked, it was the US that had an isolationist mentality. What does Canada not have to worry about that the US does that wasn't the result of a conscious choice on their part (ie: wars)? It's the US that doesn't care about the UN... the US where Democratic candidates have to criticize NAFTA to get votes. The US doesn't have to protect anyone.

America is the superpower. It has not lost its status, despite whatever is going on. Becoming socialist will weaken its power. And with corrupt democratic politicians in power, socialism (with its implied increased government interference) is a dangerous notion. And Ill be damned if I witness it happen and let some corrupt politician abuse it, especially if their name is Pelosi (bitch).
How can you not believe the US has not lost its power (or some of it, anyway, and is definitely going to lose more)? Russia and China are showing its weaknesses practically every day. Look at everything the US can't do anymore, or even at the problems within it, and you'll see that there are some serious problems.

...Wait, aren't you the person who talked about exercising Second Amendment rights on Obama? -_-;; Yeah, sure, like I'd trust anything you say on the topic.

What is it with people and a refusal to accept the US's weakening state?

Like you said youre not as educated as us on this and as such, youre not able to form a good opinion (instead regurgitating what TIME and the liberal left-wing biased papers of Canada tell you) so do more research like we do from multiple political perspectives and formulate your thoughts on the matter again.
Oh, sorry, I should correct myself: I'm not as educated as miyi and other intelligent posters here. That was to offset the fact that I'm asking for fact-based posts with answers to my questions and that I'm open to realising I may be wrong on things I don't have all the facts about.
 
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1337Shinigami

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You live in a socialist state so of course youre fine with. Youre not used to being a super power or having to protect many other nations and do other things for them through your own people's blood, sweat and money. You have that European-isolationist mentality, and its not productive, but I dont blame you because again your country isnt the one having to worry about the kind of issues the U.S. does.
Starting a war with a country with "they had ties to terrorist you remember 9-11. They have weapons of mass destruction." Thats how it started but it's now "we are giving them democacy and freedom." Oh, and the UN you know the United Nations is there for a reason not for some nation to decide to invade "protect" what it wants.
 

redcometfm

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@Digital Eon; I dont see the need for insults, I know I didnt use any. And if you think Miyi would say anything different, go and ahead and try him, hell he'll probably give a better argument than me. Thanks for the uncalled for hostility.

The UN is all bark and no bite, its a pretty much useless organization when it comes to conflicts. Poverty, disease, charities, its a perfectly good organization, anything and its useless. Look at Darfur, with China and Russia's invested interests there and their strong veto power.

@1337Shinigami; As Miyi would confirm with evidence, Bush's policy post 9/11 was to go after terrorism and terrorist/terrorism-harboring nations. When Iraq refused to obey the ultimatum to allow inspectors, it lost its sovereignty with the U.N. Again, Miyi provides a far better argument.

And as usual, the typical counter-arguments to these statements are consumed with non-facts, emotional banter and insults since there is nothing else of substance to counter with. Ugh, Im so tired of this shit.
 
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