Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 1

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Drmke

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First rank of Hanasaka Ikkyuu it will be in Issue #31, Ikkyuu started in Jump #23.

31-8=23. The Jump's ranking goes from 1 to 9 and not 0 to 8!
We've had this discussion a million times and the general consenses is that the first ranking happens on chapter 8. Eight weeks ago counting the current chapter.
 

aymrm

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Bleach arc isn't really bad, the problem is the timing, the plot is good but after all the previous badass enemies the new guy is just sucky, but if i remember well kubo talked about 2 arcs left, a shorter one and a longer one, maybe this is just a short filler-like period for ichigo to recover and set a new context, but i don't think some shinigamis can fix the rankings that much
 

xi0

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There's no logical way of stretching out Naruto. The main character himself has reached the peak of the power level cap of the world, and while he could always get stronger with better Kyuubi control, general techniques (sealing, more wind techniques, second element etc) and overall experience, he's already godly powerful. Adding in stronger villains at this point would downgrade the whole Naruto world and especially its leaders (Kages). If the series continues, with a new more powerful villain than Madara and Sasuke, or Sasuke himself continues as the villain, the Kages and basically the whole world except Naruto himself would turn into a cheap copy of the Z fighters of Dragonball. Just useless. It's a good thing that Kishi ends it before Naruto becomes any older (and more powerful). Not to mention that the story is basically closing like you said. The Sasuke plot which is a main foundation for the series is reaching closure "soon" and everything is coming together. Kishi wouldn't dare stretching out the series with a part 3. The only regret I will have is that we will probably only see a chapter or two of Naruto as an adult being Hokage (I want more!). So yeah, it's ending after this plot is over.
Since when did logic figure into stretching out a series or not? If the series is a cash-cow, they'd do whatever it took to extend it. That being said, after the Toriyama debacle, it's entirely plausible that the current editorial department is more sensitive to the desires of the creator. I didn't say it was going to happen, just that it's possible.

Well, I think Jojo was moved to because of low ranking. Stone Ocean (Jojo Part 6) was mostly ranked in bottom 5 (even last place), but it ended naturally because I think the editors don't want to cancel Jojo (even if it is just part of it). So, when it started Steel Ball Run (Jojo Part 7), the editors decide to move to Ultra Jump because now Jojo became too mature series for teenage boys in 2000s.

And other example is Beshari Gurashi. Beshari Gurashi also has been in bottom 5 when it started. So, it was been moved to Young Jump and it is still being serialized.

There are only very limited examples for this issue, but it doesn't mean that the possibility of Bleach being moved to other magazine (like SQ) is zero; there is still slight possibility to be moved.
I see no one mentioned how Bastard!! was moved from Shounen Jump to Ultra Jump.

I can only speculate but I doubt Bleach fits SQ's demographic. The vast majority of SQ readers are 16 or older, I doubt a significant enough portion of Bleach's audience is above 16. ToRa, DGM, and PoT were moved because they're fans fit SQ's profile better than Jump's. JoJo, Beshari, and Captain Tsubasa moved to seinen magazines because they lost most of their teen readers while maintaining a core of adult fans. I doubt Bleach will have that luxury.
I disagree. When DGM was moved I would venture a guess that they took it to keep the series going, to work with Hoshino to make it easier for her and to give the magazine some more attention. There's nothing in Bleach that tells me it couldn't be serialized in SQ. Does SQ even have much of an identity now? I understand the idea of demographics, but the Bleach intellectual property alone would overcome it in my opinion.
 

Negative Syndicate

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I see no one mentioned how Bastard!! was moved from Shounen Jump to Ultra Jump.
I didn't mentioned Bastard!! because it moved to other magazine due to serializing irregularly. The examples that I provided is the series that moved to other magazines because of low ranking.
 

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I disagree. When DGM was moved I would venture a guess that they took it to keep the series going, to work with Hoshino to make it easier for her and to give the magazine some more attention.
It's possible they took Hoshino's condition into consideration, but I don't picture them being so nice. Getting SQ more attention sounds about right. DGM was consistently low in TOC, sold consistently well, and likely appealed to SQ's core audience. The fact that it was instantly SQ's best seller kind of backs that up.

There's nothing in Bleach that tells me it couldn't be serialized in SQ. Does SQ even have much of an identity now? I understand the idea of demographics, but the Bleach intellectual property alone would overcome it in my opinion.
SQ doesn't really seem to do tournament manga. Tegami Bachi is still the model SQ action series; more plot intensive and introspective than WSJ normally handles. Mago would be a good fit, it seems more like an SQ series than a WSJ one anyway. Most of the tournament tropes were purged from DGM when it moved. I can't really picture Bleach serialized alongside Tegami, AnE, Rosario, Kurenai, Claymore, etc. Kubo's art style would work, but not the storytelling. SQ also allows more adult content than WSJ does. To-Love-Ru had fanservice, To-Love-Ru: Darkness has nudity. A lot of nudity, actually. Because of that I can't see a series with a young teen audience moving to SQ. If Bleach's ranking does not recover but sales remain unaffected, I could kind of seeing it moving to V Jump, like Yu-Gi-Oh did. Whatever Bleach's fate is, it has at least a year to recover. If it stays in the bottom five (already a big assumption) they will want to give it at least four tankobon before deciding it's fate.
 

Negative Syndicate

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If Bleach's ranking does not recover but sales remain unaffected, I could kind of seeing it moving to V Jump, like Yu-Gi-Oh did. Whatever Bleach's fate is, it has at least a year to recover. If it stays in the bottom five (already a big assumption) they will want to give it at least four tankobon before deciding it's fate.
I don't think Bleach will fit V Jump either. V Jump is targeted to more younger audience than WSJ, and Bleach is too violent for V Jump audience.

Also, I think Bleach still can be moved to SQ. There is a limit on amount of things that can be do on WSJ (like action and story); many series try to keep the limit and that's why many series seem to fit in WSJ. If Bleach did moved to SQ, Kubo can try things that wasn't permitted in WSJ. So, I think Bleach might can fit into SQ series.

Lastly, in WSJ series, I think the WSJ series that is mostly suitable for SQ is Hunter x Hunter.
 
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Bomber D Rufi

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I don't think Bleach will fit V Jump either. V Jump is targeted to more younger audience than WSJ, and Bleach is too violent for V Jump audience.

Also, I think Bleach still can be moved to SQ. There is a limit on amount of things that can be do on WSJ (like action and story); many series try to keep the limit and that's why many series seem to fit in WSJ. If Bleach did moved to SQ, Kubo can try things that wasn't permitted in WSJ. So, I think Bleach might can fit into SQ series.

Lastly, in WSJ series, I think the WSJ series that is mostly suitable for SQ is Hunter x Hunter.
I agree with HXH in SQ. In fact I've thought that Togashi should seriously consider switching gears to monthly if the weekly pace isn't working out for him. If they're willing to give sales consideration (and to some extent) health consideration to Hoshino to move to SQ, HXH would benefit from this as well. Although to be honest, I just want to see HXH get to it's natural conclusion. (Just finished the YYH manga, and the word infuriating is really kind of me being nice.) 'Course I would like to see HXH end before I expire.

As for Bleach in SQ...I think Kaiten's onto something when he says it doesn't have that 'feel'. I only really read Gekka Bijin and Binbogami in SQ right now, but they both feel much different than WSJ manga. Though do we really want Bleach to move anyway? The problem with the series now is just what I said before. Kubo decided to use a 'band-aid' called a 'time-skip', unlike Oda and Kishimoto who used the time skip to advance their series, he tried to reset things using one. As a writer myself, I know that this has it's advantages, but more or less doing a time skip that way has more setbacks than anything. If he were going to do a new series in this vein, that's fine, but even with that he'd really need to have something happen. Things are happening now, but look how much posturing it took to get to this point. Any series besides Bleach would have been dropped already.

....Though it doesn't matter, cause soon as Rukia shows up, Bleach will be in the top five.
 

xi0

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I didn't mentioned Bastard!! because it moved to other magazine due to serializing irregularly. The examples that I provided is the series that moved to other magazines because of low ranking.
The same thing happened with JoJo, though done in parts treated as separate series. Both manga have been made more mature by being in a Seinen magazine. I know it's a technicality, but PoT ended in WSJ and while it's a continuation of the the first series, it wasn't just moved like DGM was. The same goes for To-LOVE-Ru, a different series than what was in WSJ. To-LOVE-Ru seemed to be a permanent fixture in the bottom five while in WSJ, but was popular enough to get an anime and sell pretty well. PoT had a devoted fanbase too, even if it jumped around in the ToC when it finally came back from a long hiatus.

It's possible they took Hoshino's condition into consideration, but I don't picture them being so nice. Getting SQ more attention sounds about right. DGM was consistently low in TOC, sold consistently well, and likely appealed to SQ's core audience. The fact that it was instantly SQ's best seller kind of backs that up.
How exactly was Hoshino's "condition" not taken into consideration? She supposedly had more assistants than other mangaka (though it's her prerogative obviously), took frequent breaks, only one that was confirmed as being due to illness IIRC. Every time she came back her art style seemed to change. When a series as successful as DGM is there, moving it to SQ was a convenience. I don't think it had anything to do with being nice or not, it was just perfect timing. She's even taken breaks now that DGM is monthly (I know many monthly series have done this, but given her history...). She was willing to continue it, it sold well, and SQ happened to be there.

SQ doesn't really seem to do tournament manga. Tegami Bachi is still the model SQ action series; more plot intensive and introspective than WSJ normally handles. Mago would be a good fit, it seems more like an SQ series than a WSJ one anyway. Most of the tournament tropes were purged from DGM when it moved. I can't really picture Bleach serialized alongside Tegami, AnE, Rosario, Kurenai, Claymore, etc. Kubo's art style would work, but not the storytelling. SQ also allows more adult content than WSJ does. To-Love-Ru had fanservice, To-Love-Ru: Darkness has nudity. A lot of nudity, actually. Because of that I can't see a series with a young teen audience moving to SQ. If Bleach's ranking does not recover but sales remain unaffected, I could kind of seeing it moving to V Jump, like Yu-Gi-Oh did. Whatever Bleach's fate is, it has at least a year to recover. If it stays in the bottom five (already a big assumption) they will want to give it at least four tankobon before deciding it's fate.
If you read a series like Bastard!! for instance, it's much different now than it was when it was in WSJ. I'm not saying Bleach is a perfect fit for SQ necessarily, but I'm just saying there's no way SQ wouldn't take it when it still sells so well. It's one of the more ecchi series in the magazine, as well as having blatant fanservice. It's the Air Gear of WSJ IMO. V-Jump...not really.

I think this debate is kind of pointless though, since comparing it to DGM isn't fair. Bleach is rarely ever on break, and whether Bleach keeps plummeting and never recovers or not...who knows. DGM was moved because the weekly schedule was too much of a rat-race for Hoshino apparently. Kubo at least doesn't have a problem with the schedule, but whether his work suffers because of it or not is up for debate. The pace of the story as a weekly series is pretty bad already. Reading it by the book, the series is more bearable. That doesn't mean he'd magically figure out pacing in a monthly serial either though.
 

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While we're at this discussion again... has there actually ever been a series that was moved while still running and where the author did NOT have any issues besides the series losing popularity with the target audience? Hoshino, Morita, Hagiwara - they all have some serious health problems, which made it (near to) impossible for them to keep up with a weekly schedule.

I think in all the other cases when the series was simply no longer appealing to the target readers it had to come to an end first before it was moved over to another mag. (e.g. JoJo's, Captain Tsubasa, etc.) So if that's the case, I wonder if Shueisha would start pulling something like this with series such as Bleach or Mago? (Both mentioned before in this thread, and we all know they're currently just hypothetical questions and assumptions but... yeah, I'd like to know if you guys think it might even be possible in the first place^^)

Reading it by the book, the series is more bearable.
He knows jack shit about pacing and doesn't really fit into any other magazine (image- and/or audience-wise), so you named the only solution: make him do his stuff directly-to-tankoubon! xD He could probably still leech off of his +500k fans and no one would have to worry about rankings or wasting a slot in some manga anthology. /jk
 
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perroloco

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Kaiten wrote:
If Bleach's ranking does not recover but sales remain unaffected, I could kind of seeing it moving to V Jump, like Yu-Gi-Oh did.
I would LOL, I have to stop comparing BLEACH to Saint Seiya, but IF BLEACH would move to V Jump then I would laugh out loud in the irony, because.. Guess what manga appeared on V Jump Issue 1? Hint: Saint Seiya, it moved from WSJ to V Jump at the end of its serialization.

Nevertheless that was back when V Jump started, and besides its marketed toward little kids and its mangas are more like marketing i.e. Yu-Gi-Oh!... Saint Seiya kinda fitted the bill because it was a toy-seller (Well.. all JUMP manga is to sell toys and merchandise, but SS was more)

---------- Post added at 07:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 PM ----------

I would LOL, I have to stop comparing BLEACH to Saint Seiya, but IF BLEACH would move to V Jump then I would laugh out loud in the irony, because.. Guess what manga appeared on V Jump Issue 1? Hint: Saint Seiya, it moved from WSJ to V Jump at the end of its serialization.

Nevertheless that was back when V Jump started, and besides its marketed toward little kids and its mangas are more like marketing i.e. Yu-Gi-Oh!... Saint Seiya kinda fitted the bill because it was a toy-seller (Well.. all JUMP manga is to sell toys and merchandise, but SS was more)

EDIT: Also, as Mr. Prince suggest is only natural for a POPULAR manga if its author wants to continue it either gets serialized on other magazine.

There are lots of examples.
Captain Tsubasa Saga, it had 2 other arcs (considered continuations of its manga) on WSJ before being moved to Young Jump, because older readers would recognize Captain Tsubasa. Kinnikuman did too, it ended then its continuation was published in other magazine.
Jojo is a cult-series, it sells well too, it has a stable fan-base that is gonna continue buying its tankoubons, IMO the change was so that Jojo wouldn't use a slot in WSJ. Jojo, while ranked wasn't too much in danger of being canceled, kind of like Kochikame.
Shaman King supposedly was planned to continue in SQ, instead the Kang Zeng Bangs were published with the true (Kinda rushed) ending.
Otokojuku has a continuation.
Hokuto No ken and its spin-offs.
Yu-Gi-Oh! and its spin-offs.
Ring Ni Kakero.
Saint Seiya.
Etc.. etc.. etc..

Recent examples Prince Of tennis, To Love Ru and to a lesser extent D-Gray Man, from WSJ to Jump SQ, although D-Gray Man just moved the other 2 were mangas that ended and continued (Had a continuation manga) on SQ. While PoT could have continued on WSJ it did not because it ranks were falling, TLR could have stayed in WSJ but its audience wanted more ecchi bordering H.

The point is that the manga is changed to appeal to its core audience, i.e Yu-Gi-Oh! spin-offs are moved to V-Jump which is a magazine for kids that has lots of manga that are very marketed oriented (i.e. toy-sellers) like Yu-Gi-Oh! and Digimon. Same way that you wouldn't expect to see Ring Ni Kakero 2 in WSJ, instead it was published on Young Jump.. I mean it fits JUMP perfectly, heck Ring Ni Kakero 2 is what JUMP is all about, but the art-style is
old, the followers to Ringkake (Published in 1980 more or less are probably kids that were born in the 70s so they are 40 years olds .. Heck IIRC one of ONE PIECE's first editors favorite manga was Ring Ni Kakero so that would give us a clue of the demography of such manga.) Thus it was published on Super JUMP.

The difference here is that most of the examples were mangas that had ended and then, years later the authors returned to their franchises.
 

Negative Syndicate

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It looks like Meruhen Ouji Grimm has ended on this week's issue.
 

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St&rs seems interesting

But I'm not ready to invest in it because this has CANCELLED written all over it.
 

Negative Syndicate

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It looks like Horikoshi (author of Oumagadoki Doubutsuen) and Matsui (author of Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro) will bring their new works on upcoming Jump Next.
 

Drmke

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Ooooo Matsui finally returns!! That I'm looking forward to.
 

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It looks like Horikoshi (author of Oumagadoki Doubutsuen) and Matsui (author of Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro) will bring their new works on upcoming Jump Next.
Hell yeah! I love Matsui!! Though I assume these are oneshots? Though wait, Jump Next....so obviously. Still, more Matsui is like a godsend. I just hope he's planning a serial soon.
 

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It looks like Horikoshi (author of Oumagadoki Doubutsuen) and Matsui (author of Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro) will bring their new works on upcoming Jump Next.
Nice!!!

Another Matsui series will be incredible. How often do NEXT oneshots become WSJ series?
 

Maxy Barnard

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St&rs seems interesting

But I'm not ready to invest in it because this has CANCELLED written all over it.
you mean... invest your time? in reading a manga? they're... not really all that time consuming to read. you say invest like it's some sort of risk to get involved with a potentially cancellable series.
 

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you mean... invest your time? in reading a manga? they're... not really all that time consuming to read. you say invest like it's some sort of risk to get involved with a potentially cancellable series.
He means invest emotionally (in a sense). In the chance that you get excited for a new manga, and then it ends, it leaves you feeling sour because you want more but won't get it. Double Arts is a good example of this, it was very much enjoyed throughout the internet, and then the hopes of a number of people was crushed when it was canceled, leaving people jaded about starting to read new series.
 
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