Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2012] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[HalcyonDigest]

The two series whose ranks I was interested in seeing (Koisome and Sensei) are unranked so I knew the ToC wasn't going to be that interesting for me. I am excited for the Golden Future Cup Oneshots it's always interesting to see which series could work well. Hopefully they get some attention from translators, last year it was a while until we got some of the translations and 2 of them were never translated.

 

[Asgaroth]

As for Kuroko Basket exceptional ranking, aren't you praising to much the effect of the animé. Not so long ago, Kurako was in the bottom five of the TOC several time in a row.

several months - 8 week rule? also the first episode didn't get kuroko right to the number one spot, but the anime lift it up from a constant bottom 5 dweller to a medium/high ranked series. the anime efect is quite obviously visible in the sales, which kicked even bleach out of the top10 for this half year.

naruto had 2 chapters this week, the normal and special one right? sounds like kishi didn't use his absent last time to play around.

 

[Jammin]

I've been observing the Jump Rankings for a few months now, trying to get a handle on the rhyme or reason to the whole thing, and I think it's time for me openly accept that I have absolutely no understanding of the tastes of Weekly Shounen Jump's readership.

I mean, I look at these rankings and I see a grand total of 2 series that I think are even close to of where they deserve to be from my viewpoint (Nisekoi at 3rd and Bleach at 10th seem about right to me)

The one I understand the least is Gintama. Granted I'm a huge fan, and therefor filled to the brim with bias, but it seems to me like it's been so good so consistently for the least few months but the rankings haven't seemed to reflect that in the least.

Medaka Box's ranking is another mystery to me. I've never liked the series until very recently. In the past I couldn't imagine how it could have held on for so long but now it's finally doing things I'm actually somewhat impressed by and the ranking plunges. I just feel confused.

-----------------------------------------

Apparently my tastes are just extremely abnormal when compared to jump voters.

 

[Asgaroth]

I've been observing the Jump Rankings for a few months now, trying to get a handle on the rhyme or reason to the whole thing, and I think it's time for me openly accept that I have absolutely no understanding of the tastes of Weekly Shounen Jump's readership.

japanese love cheerfull and bright happy mangas. (yes there are others, but they expections from the mainstream) amercian/europeans like darker things.

for example (even if it isn't a manga/anime)
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess us: 3.41 --- eur: 1.89 --- jap: 0.60 <- dark
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker us: 2.60 --- eur: 0.99 --- jap: 0.89 <- bright

the same goes for other category like humor or style and so on...

Medaka Box's ranking is another mystery to me. I've never liked the series until very recently. In the past I couldn't imagine how it could have held on for so long but now it's finally doing things I'm actually somewhat impressed by and the ranking plunges. I just feel confused.

i'm actually quite unimpressed by the newest foes. it may be because i'm not japanese and can't udnerstand the importance of kanji and meanings, but they seem to be all the same in regard of ability. i also think that adding females as "grooms" felt forced + the fact that he tries to push so hard for zenkichi besides the fact, that no one is interested in him, clearly visible in the toc.

 

[Kaiten]

As for Kuroko Basket exceptional ranking, aren't you praising to much the effect of the animé. After all, it's only this week that the rank is high for an animé which started for several months now. Not so long ago, Kurako was in the bottom five of the TOC several time in a row. Also, Medaka Box has an animé since spring too and the rank are not that impressive.

There has been a noticeable increase in volume sales since the anime premiered. Last week the latest volume sold within 2000 copies of the new volume of Toriko, something I can not recall happening before. Medaka Box sales have also increased noticeably, first week sales are up by more than 60% since March, the last volume before the anime. Kuroko's first week sales have more than doubled in the same time. Both series have had new volumes released on the same day since March. Both series are represented in the links below:

February 27 - March 5
April 2 - 8
July 2 - 8

Increased tankobon sales should not necessarily correspond to improved rankings. There is no guarantee new fans, attracted by the anime, will bother buying copies of the magazine.

---------- Post added at 05:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------

japanese love cheerfull and bright happy mangas. (yes there are others, but they expections from the mainstream) amercian/europeans like darker things.

for example (even if it isn't a manga/anime)
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess us: 3.41 --- eur: 1.89 --- jap: 0.60 <- dark
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker us: 2.60 --- eur: 0.99 --- jap: 0.89 <- bright

the same goes for other category like humor or style and so on...



i'm actually quite unimpressed by the newest foes. it may be because i'm not japanese and can't udnerstand the importance of kanji and meanings, but they seem to be all the same in regard of ability. i also think that adding females as "grooms" felt forced + the fact that he tries to push so hard for zenkichi besides the fact, that no one is interested in him, clearly visible in the toc.

Could you please stop speaking about things of which you have no fucking clue? Full Metal Alchemist was one of the most popular recent manga in Japan, and it was very dark. Shingeki no Kyojin is a dark, violent manga that outsells Bleach. Gantz is popular. Berserk is popular. Claymore is popular. Billy Bat sells well. All dark manga, all mainstream. Don't stereotype Japanese taste based on your ignorance of manga. Please, with all do respect: get the fuck out, you don't know what the fuck your talking about

What is and is not popular in Japan should not be a mystery. Weekly sales charts are posted to this subforum every week.

Obviously you know next to nothing about American comics. Only the superhero shit that gets made into movies is popular. Dark comics are niche market, at best, as is anything not produced by Marvel or DC. Again: please shut the fuck up about shit you do not know. Don't bother the rest of us with your ignorant ramblings.

 

[k-dom]

There has been a noticeable increase in volume sales since the anime premiered. Last week the latest volume sold within 2000 copies of the new volume of Toriko, something I can not recall happening before. Medaka Box sales have also increased noticeably, first week sales are up by more than 60% since March, the last volume before the anime. Kuroko's first week sales have more than doubled in the same time. Both series have had new volumes released on the same day since March. Both series are represented in the links below:

February 27 - March 5
April 2 - 8
July 2 - 8

Increased tankobon sales should not necessarily correspond to improved rankings. There is no guarantee new fans, attracted by the anime, will bother buying copies of the magazine.

Tankobon is another matter and I can more or less understand how the anime affects them. Based on your links it's quite evident there is a direct effect. As for the TOC position, it seems you agree with me.

 

[Maxy Barnard]

*sniff* Kaiten, you used to be so kind! :P
Although it's worth mentioning that Walking Dead is dark and sells more than anything else in trades (and issue 100 of it just broke sales records for the 21st century) and that one of DC's more popular comics of the last decade was about rape, so... yeah, darkness does have its appeal, so don't get too mad, man. sweeping generalisations are risked when *anyone* does that.

Darkness and light sells pretty well in both respective markets, because tastes and age ranges are always mutable.

 

[ruggia]

japanese love cheerfull and bright happy mangas. (yes there are others, but they expections from the mainstream) amercian/europeans like darker things.

then will you kindly tell me how so many of the highly successful films from Japan are so dark and twisted?
Like Confessions, Battle Royal, Ring, Grudge, Norwegian Wood, etc?

 

[Nii]

As for Kuroko Basket exceptional ranking, aren't you praising to much the effect of the animé. After all, it's only this week that the rank is high for an animé which started for several months now. Not so long ago, Kurako was in the bottom five of the TOC several time in a row. Also, Medaka Box has an animé since spring too and the rank are not that impressive.

First I agree with the things Kait said, nothing to add on that part.
Regarding the TOC ranking it's a bit early to talk about a trend but it's ranked 2nd this week and ranked 5th the week before. I know Kuroko had a good ranking sometimes but as far as I recall it was never for consecutive weeks. If it continues to rank well for the next 2-3 TOC's I'm pretty sure it's thanks to the anime.

And Kuroko's anime is way more well-received than Medaka's counterpart. Please don't just compare random anime, there are enough examples where an anime didn't change much or changed a lot. Ao no Exorcist's anime had a huge effect while Nura's anime barely had one.
Another thing to not is that you can't expect that a few episodes will outright change things, it wasn't the case for AnE and it wasn't the case for Kuroko - both anime managed to gather a vast amount of new fans though. If it will change Kuroko's TOC position permanently is hard to say at this point but my first impression is that it will.

 

[Sayaendo]

I've been observing the Jump Rankings for a few months now, trying to get a handle on the rhyme or reason to the whole thing, and I think it's time for me openly accept that I have absolutely no understanding of the tastes of Weekly Shounen Jump's readership.

I mean, I look at these rankings and I see a grand total of 2 series that I think are even close to of where they deserve to be from my viewpoint (Nisekoi at 3rd and Bleach at 10th seem about right to me)

The one I understand the least is Gintama. Granted I'm a huge fan, and therefor filled to the brim with bias, but it seems to me like it's been so good so consistently for the least few months but the rankings haven't seemed to reflect that in the least.

Medaka Box's ranking is another mystery to me. I've never liked the series until very recently. In the past I couldn't imagine how it could have held on for so long but now it's finally doing things I'm actually somewhat impressed by and the ranking plunges. I just feel confused.

-----------------------------------------

Apparently my tastes are just extremely abnormal when compared to jump voters.

A couple of things to keep in mind:
- The ToCs aren't as precise as it appears you take them. We know that the ToC roughly reflects the polls, but we also know that it's possible that, for example, if Medaka polled 13th and PSI polled 14th, the editors may take several other details into account and switch those two places. I'm willing to bet it happens at least once or twice every ToC
- The Japanese voters vote not only based on the quality of the chapter or the series, but also according to which series they've read before voting. They don't necessarily read all their weekly reads before voting - it changes based on their free time, the order the chapters appear in the mag, how wordy or long the chapters appear, and so on. It's possible some of them only read half of what they want to read before sending in the postcard (that they're probably only sending in for prizes anyway, so there's no point in sending it late).
- The mag features a lot of advertisements for stuff relating to the manga in it, which changes the votes at least on SOME levels, enough to shuffle the series around in the ToC.
- Not the same people vote every week (my pure, 100% assumption). It doesn't make sense that the polls sample the same relative market bubble every week. It's much more probable that the poll sample will skew toward different series every week. The averages attempt to fix this, but the color spreads get in the way.

And lastly, though this one is based on Bakuman so it might not be true:
- The polls sent during the first week of the issue are relatively small in scope, in the hundreds. Such a low number can easily shuffle around based on the above points.

 

[Jammin]

A couple of things to keep in mind:
- The ToCs aren't as precise as it appears you take them. We know that the ToC roughly reflects the polls, but we also know that it's possible that, for example, if Medaka polled 13th and PSI polled 14th, the editors may take several other details into account and switch those two places. I'm willing to bet it happens at least once or twice every ToC
- The Japanese voters vote not only based on the quality of the chapter or the series, but also according to which series they've read before voting. They don't necessarily read all their weekly reads before voting - it changes based on their free time, the order the chapters appear in the mag, how wordy or long the chapters appear, and so on. It's possible some of them only read half of what they want to read before sending in the postcard (that they're probably only sending in for prizes anyway, so there's no point in sending it late).
- The mag features a lot of advertisements for stuff relating to the manga in it, which changes the votes at least on SOME levels, enough to shuffle the series around in the ToC.
- Not the same people vote every week (my pure, 100% assumption). It doesn't make sense that the polls sample the same relative market bubble every week. It's much more probable that the poll sample will skew toward different series every week. The averages attempt to fix this, but the color spreads get in the way.

And lastly, though this one is based on Bakuman so it might not be true:
- The polls sent during the first week of the issue are relatively small in scope, in the hundreds. Such a low number can easily shuffle around based on the above points.

No, I understand that fully and completely. I'm not confused by micro-trends in the rankings. I'm confused by the macro-trends I've seen after 3 months or so of steady observation. That seems like it should be enough of a sample size to smooth out most short term variables.

The Weekly Shounen Jump Rankings are not precise but, as rankings, they are an ordered list of series by popularity among the voters (more or less).

When I first started looking at the rankings I did so because I was interested in how the voters were reacting in some series which I follow in Jump(Specifically Gintama, Naruto, Bleach, Beelzebub, One Piece, Niskoi, and Medaka Box) as I had never really paid attention to that before. It has completely confounded me what I have seen over that period of time.

I've seen bad writing rewarded and good writing seemingly punished. I'm not sure if the rankings function as they are supposed to, and the viewpoint of the voters is just too different form my own for me to really understand, or if something about the voting system just doesn't work like it should.

----------------------------------------

Whatever the cause, the end result is this..... I have come to accept the basic truth that I have no freakin' idea why the voters rank things where they do.

And as of right now I give up trying get my feeble brain to process this madness.

 

[ruggia]

When I first started looking at the rankings I did so because I was interested in how the voters were reacting in some series which I follow in Jump(Specifically Gintama, Naruto, Bleach, Beelzebub, One Piece, Niskoi, and Medaka Box) as I had never really paid attention to that before. It has completely confounded me what I have seen over that period of time.

I've seen bad writing rewarded and good writing seemingly punished. I'm not sure if the rankings function as they are supposed to, and the viewpoint of the voters is just too different form my own for me to really understand, or if something about the voting system just doesn't work like it should.

well, how about we look at it this way:

we've seen even the once high ranking Bleach or Reborn drop in the ranks once the series went on huge slumps, so it certainly shows that the system isn't completely broken.

as for Gintama dropping, I don't read the series and no clue how it is so I can't comment on the content at all, but it could be because ending of its most recent anime wearing away some of the popularity boost it had before. Who knows. It could also be because the editors are favoring promising new series more, which might be pushing its position down more than it will be positioned.

for Medaka's recent ranking, I have seen very few people enjoying the recent development more than the previous arc when Kumagawa was in charge, so it makes sense how Medaka is back down at the bottom. Anime hasn't really given it much boost either, so no question here.

 

[wintercry]

I've seen bad writing rewarded and good writing seemingly punished. I'm not sure if the rankings function as they are supposed to, and the viewpoint of the voters is just too different form my own for me to really understand, or if something about the voting system just doesn't work like it should.

The ToC reflecting the voting system is still questionable. The only fact that can be taken out of the system is that the series around top are advertise in a way to get it be more popular or it deserved that cause. Proof to that is (seemingly) doing well series and or popular in the moment are on top; placed in a spot that can easily gain attention. That is also why the argue of it deserving a spot is always brought up.

 

[xi0]

I'm not sure why anyone would try to paint readership in a broad brush. Sure WSJ comics TEND to have the same general themes, but as for why one is immensely popular and why one is only moderately so? Why would any of us know? Because we don't live in Japan we don't understand the type of presence manga or anime has in a random person's life, whether they're a fan or not. It's like someone being aware of Superman or Batman even though they know next to nothing about them. One Piece has reached that level, Dragonball reached that level. Most other comics just don't achieve that kind of awareness. The people here who are interested in magazine placement, and volume sales represent a very small fraction of the people who would buy the latest edition of One Piece. The overwhelming majority buy it because it's in their face on a regular basis and don't give a shit about reading the entire magazine weekly and don't give a shit why Kuroko or Medaka Box might get or have gotten "undeserved" attention. That's for you guys to argue and geek out about . So stop assuming that they operate like you. And I'm not even talking about tastes here, just the extent of their fandom.

On another topic - What the hell is going on with Hinata on that cover? Is she possessed or something?

 

[TXC]

On another topic - What the hell is going on with Hinata on that cover? Is she possessed or something?

It's kind of creepy seeing her like that...

Nisekoi in third is music for my ears, the series I most enjoy weekly.

 

[Jammin]

About Hinata on the cover......

I'm pretty sure that was an intentionally uncharacteristic drawing. Which I'm guessing has something to do with the movie.

If you look at Kakashi and Guy you'll notice Kakashi is giving Guy's signature goofy thumbs up and Guy has his face in a book like Kakashi always does. I believe Sasuke is posing as Naruto with the grin, the wink, and the 2 finger hand wave. So I suspect Sakura and Hinata are supposed to be doing the same thing. Which is why Sakura is looking shy and Hinata's looking....(?confident?) but it seems like it came across a little bit stranger than was intended. Still...in a way it looks kinda awesome in my opinion.

 

[wintercry]

Hinata despise Naruto in the movie. By perspective I'd say Naruto's life gone polar opposite to how it usually was. Having Sasuke returned to Konoha and his parents being still alive.

 

[Zeromcd]

Haikyuu!! vol.1 and Pajama na Kanojo vol.1 have both been scheduled to get complete reprintings again.

Nisekoi vol.1 was also scheduled to get another complete reprinting again. This is the sixth or seventh time....

 

[meeedoooz]

if the cover is confusing you, take a look at the lead CP of the extra chapter you will see her giving the finger . it's a genjutsu world naruto is trapped in where his parents are alive , that's the plot of the movie.

check out the extra chapter it's really great

 

[crimsonlink310]

if the cover is confusing you, take a look at the lead CP of the extra chapter you will see her giving the finger . it's a genjutsu world naruto is trapped in where his parents are alive , that's the plot of the movie.

check out the extra chapter it's really great

It felt more like a filler chapter of what Naruto and his friends do in their spare time. So no I disagree with you that its "really great". Funny maybe, but thats pretty much it besides setting up for the movie.