Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2015] - Discussion and TOC Talk

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piau9000

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Im quite sure, just like in those cases, people are joking when they hate it and that they actually really love these stories. No one can read something and experience the gnashing of teeth in anger, it makes no sense as there is nothing wrong with BLack Clover, Naruto, or even Fairy Tail. I guess people think its cool to hate good stuff while championing ultraniche failure series.
Yep.
It's cool to be a hipster nowadays. :mono
Just wait until the anime began. They will gonna diss it even more... XD

But Black Clover is pretty cool. It has good characters, has a interesting story, the scenario is cool (that giant skull is amazing), the medieval theme is pretty refreshing for a Shonen Jump manga.
That's the reason of it success (so far).

Naruto is only getting hate now, it only started late on.

When it first came out, it was treated like the second coming of jesus. It exploded and everyone loved it, no hate at all.

(And rightfully so, early Naruto is some of the best manga in existence)
That's because the internet was not that big back then.
There was no such thing like Reddit or MAL to people diss something.
 
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WyldViolet

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Im quite sure, just like in those cases, people are joking when they hate it and that they actually really love these stories. No one can read something and experience the gnashing of teeth in anger, it makes no sense as there is nothing wrong with BLack Clover, Naruto, or even Fairy Tail. I guess people think its cool to hate good stuff while championing ultraniche failure series.
I'm not joking when I say I despise Naruto and Black Clover for their terrible and borderline plageristic writing and I don't think anybody else is either.
I just think that some people don't care as much about or don't judge quality the same way people who dislike Naruto and Black Clover do.
(not getting into a subjectivity vs objectivity shitstorm, just stating my opinion as everybody already knows that I think that quality analysis is objective to a certain point)

---------- Post added at 07:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:58 PM ----------

When it first came out, it was treated like the second coming of jesus. It exploded and everyone loved it, no hate at all.
Not Hunter x Hunter fans, or people who don't care for edginess and angst.
 

Eru13

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The first volume of Souma sold 70k in 4 days, right? Anyway, BC is popular, and 38k in 4 days is very good for a series of an almost unknown author. And had problems with stock too.
HeroAca and Soma had very similar situations and both sold over 70k on their first week...

The true question with BC is whether it can have a significant increase in sales for vol 2 or if it'll stagnate (even if it reaches around 60k next week)
 

Akia999

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Im quite sure, just like in those cases, people are joking when they hate it and that they actually really love these stories. No one can read something and experience the gnashing of teeth in anger
So, does that mean you're joking when you said you hated Lady Justice? All the legit criticism(excessive fanservice) about Lady Justice was just a mere cover up of how much you like the series?
Because that's what your statement is totally implying in general. So, if I write any sort of criticism about Black Clover, I'm just being a tsundere about not liking the series!:derp

, it makes no sense as there is nothing wrong with BLack Clover, Naruto, or even Fairy Tail. I guess people think its cool to hate good stuff while championing ultraniche failure series.
I'm happy that you're enjoying Black Clover and that you want your favourite manga to succeed. When it comes to any sort of criticism, being defensive about it is normal. I'm pretty defensive when other people criticize my favourite series but I accept that people have different taste from me and that my favourite series has flaws.

Let's face it, not everybody like the same thing and nothing is truly perfect. You don't like Lady Justice (you even voiced your criticism about it) but there are other that actually enjoy the series despite the flaws. Likewise, you enjoy Black Clover but there are other who don't. It has nothing to do with "hating on popular series" mentality. People just have different taste.

It's really really really obvious that you like Black Clover. From your POV, any criticism about it is blasphemy. You can be defensive all you want but please don't put down other people opinion as a mere joke or haters. If you disagree with them, just have a discussion with them.

Likewise with Naruto and Fairy Tail, people have voiced out their criticism about it. But it doesn't stop people from enjoying it and debating it regardless.
 

DoctorApollo

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@rica What edginess and angst does early Naruto have? It's just a shonen story about a lonely kid finding hope and growing into a ninja. Seriously. What edginess? It's not GANTZ or Berserk or something, nothing in early Naruto is done for shock value. And angst, I don't know how you define angst, but all of the emotions in early Naruto are proportional and justified, the world they live in is just that shitty.

@kid goku, it doesnt matter that the Internet was small, my point is that BC's acceptance rate is pretty low (a good percentage of people dislike it), whereas Naruto's acceptance rate was much closer to perfect. Something like OP today, or a newer series like BnHA, the popular opinion is to love those series, Naruto was like that.

@rica again Also, Togashi and Kishimoto are bros, and in the early 2000s I bet you the people who loved HxH and the people who loved Naruto were the same people.

Edit: nvm I just saw the part of your post where you pretty much admitted that you believe your opinion to be fact and that anyone who disagrees must just have lower standards for quality than you do.
I guess there was no point in replying to you in the first place, thank you for informing me that my opinion is wrong. I'm about to eat some chicken, can you please help me and inform me whether chicken is quality food? I don't think my tastebuds can discern quality on their own, and you seem to be the authority on the matter.
 
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WyldViolet

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---------- Post added at 02:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:08 AM ----------

Edit: nvm I just saw the part of your post where you pretty much admitted that you believe your opinion to be fact and that anyone who disagrees must just have lower standards for quality than you do.
I guess there was no point in replying to you in the first place, thank you for informing me that my opinion is wrong. I'm about to eat some chicken, can you please help me and inform me whether chicken is quality food? I don't think my tastebuds can discern quality on their own, and you seem to be the authority on the matter.
I'm not trying to be an asshole, but I'm an avant garde filmmaker as well as musician who is on the cusp of finally receiving public recognition.
I have a very good understanding of what is good and isn't good when it comes to art and I just wish people would accept that already.
I know more about movies and music than most people on this entire planet, yet people act like I'm a complete loon because I'm confident in my knowledge.
It's also hard not to be arrogant about my knowledge when you see things like people praising mediocre directors like Christopher Nolan, yet not even being aware of the existence of incredibly entry level as well as freakishly influential directors like Ingmar Bergman.

Also, no taste is fully subjective, even with food.
Does human feces taste good? No, it objectively does not.
Is Mcdonald's better than a 5 star restaurant? It sure as hell isn't.
Subjectivity exists to a certain degree, but there are objective criteria for which you can judge and analyze anything.
 
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Eru13

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I'm not trying to be an asshole, but I'm an avant garde filmmaker as well as musician who is on the cusp of finally receiving public recognition.
I have a very good understanding of what is good and isn't good when it comes to art and I just wish people would accept that already.
I know more about movies and music than most people on this entire planet, yet people act like I'm a complete loon because I'm confident in my knowledge.
It's also hard not to be arrogant about my knowledge when you see things like people praising mediocre directors like Christopher Nolan, yet not even being aware of the existence of incredibly entry level as well as freakishly influential directors like Ingmar Bergman.

Also, no taste is fully subjective, even with food.
Does human feces taste good? No, it objectively does not.
Is Mcdonald's better than a 5 star restaurant? It sure as hell isn't.
Subjectivity exists to a certain degree, but there are objective criteria for which you can judge and analyze anything.
Man, you're taking things too personal here, you're reaching a point where your argument isn't really logical
You have to remember manga (just like movies, and many other things) is a form of paid entertainment before it's art, and in this particular case, the people who decide whether a manga keeps being serialized or not most likely care more about whether it can become a best-seller than how much they care about its artistical value, I mean, their livelihood depends on that (note that some best-sellers may also have high artistical value), so talking about whether a manga is a good piece of art or not doesn't really matter in terms of whether it'll survive or not

And taste is fully subjective:
Some people like eating human feces and drinking piss, cannibalism is a thing too
McDonalds is better than a 5 star restaurant if you want something cheap and fast, and even talking purely about the flavor, say, you dislike raw fish and love hamburgers and you're told you can go to a super high-class sushi restaurant or to McDonalds...I think what someone like that would choose is obvious, but then again, it all depends on the situation
So yeah, everyone has their own opinions and you have to respect them whether you agree or not with them

So, let's just accept the facts as they are, whether people like it or not, BC has had a pretty good reception by the audience that really matters so far and that's it.
It might flop like many other series before it did or it might rise to become one of the pillars of Jump, no one can know that for sure, because hey, if someone did, he/she'd probably be some manga magazine's editor in chief by now XD
 

piau9000

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it doesnt matter that the Internet was small, my point is that BC's acceptance rate is pretty low (a good percentage of people dislike it), whereas Naruto's acceptance rate was much closer to perfect. Something like OP today, or a newer series like BnHA, the popular opinion is to love those series, Naruto was like that.
I would not say low since it got 1st place on the TOC. Yeah it did not sold so well like BnHA but 38k is pretty empresive for a new series. Just look at the others "newcomers" how much they sold.
I bet even Naruto or One Piece sold less than this.

And Naruto ranked worse than Black Clover in the beggining. Just look at the ranks.
It took some time to it get a 1st place. Most of the time it stayed at the 5/6 mark.
http://pharaodopazoplus.blogspot.co.uk/p/blog-page_12.html
 

WyldViolet

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I would not say low since it got 1st place on the TOC. Yeah it did not sold so well like BnHA but 38k is pretty empresive for a new series. Just look at the others "newcomers" how much they sold.
I bet even Naruto or One Piece sold less than this.

And Naruto ranked worse than Black Clover in the beggining. Just look at the ranks.
It took some time to it get a 1st place. Most of the time it stayed at the 5/6 mark.
http://pharaodopazoplus.blogspot.co.uk/p/blog-page_12.html
Wow, that's a fasinating website.
Looking through it, I had no idea that Gintama was a bottom dweller when it started, and that Shaman King was so low in the rankings for so many years.

What's also interesting, given Kagamigami's current situation, is that Gintama dwelled in the bottom for a while, before oddly receiving a color page and immediately after that it began ranking stronger.
Maybe Kagamigami's color page is a sign that it's finally starting to catch on?
Probably doubtful due to how the series is obviously wrapping up in story, but it's neat to think about.
 
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Mammo

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I'm not surprised by Naruto early rankings, I'm surprised Rising Impact was so popular

makes me wonder why did Suzuki leave Jump
 

WyldViolet

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I'm not surprised by Naruto early rankings, I'm surprised Rising Impact was so popular

makes me wonder why did Suzuki leave Jump
Probably because Ultra Red was a failure.
 

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And to think such a long discussion started because, once more, people took Sharkbait's comment too seriously...

Tengu Keisatsu oneshot color page:

 

Mammo

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the one shot looks like something out of Illegal Rare

anyone know what is it about?
 

piau9000

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(2002)

Volume 8
14. HunterxHunter

Volume 9
13. HunterxHunter

Volume 12
11. HunterxHunter

Volume 16
14. HunterxHunter

Volume 24
14. HunterxHunter



The "oh, so pretty" hxh was not a instant success as some people say it seems...
 

Mammo

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hxh started 1998 not 2002

it got the wsj cover 3 times in the same year of its debut

if that not indication for its popularity i don't know what is
 

piau9000

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hxh started 1998 not 2002

it got the wsj cover 3 times in the same year of its debut

if that not indication for its popularity i don't know what is
I know this.
But from 99 to 2002 it dropped from 1 to 14.
I don't know what happened.
 

vampire killer

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Togashi got lazy thats what happend.
 

Mammo

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I know this.
But from 99 to 2002 it dropped from 1 to 14.
I don't know what happened.
ok, but that wasn't what you said

you said it wasn't an "instant hit" by judging its rankings after 4 years of serialization

that was wrong

instant ≠ 4 years later

& also you can't judge if a series is a hit by its ranking only, you should consider the volumes sales too
 

RubyR91

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I wonder how big Prince of Tennis in its prime was compared to recent sports series like Haikyu and Kuroko.
 

Asclepius

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I wonder how big Prince of Tennis in its prime was compared to recent sports series like Haikyu and Kuroko.
It was selling around 700k near its end on volume 42. Possibly more during anime initial boost.
 
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