Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2015] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[RubyR91]

It was selling around 700k near its end on volume 42. Possibly more during anime initial boost.

Thank you. That's pretty amazing for 42 volumes.

 

[Asclepius]

Thank you. That's pretty amazing for 42 volumes.

PoT had a circulation of 40 million around volume 40. It did well back then.
Unfortunately, i can't find rankings with sales numbers anymore.
All i get is the manga names and volumes like this one from 2007/2008.

The top ten manga in Japan for the week of March 12th, 2008:

1. One Piece, Volume 49
2. Hunter x Hunter, Volume 25
3. D.Gray-man, Volume 14
4. The Prince of Tennis, Volume 41
5. To Love-Ru, Volume 8
6. Mx0, Volume 8
7. Team Medical Dragon, Volume 16
8. Natsume Yuujinchou, Volume 5
9. Kiniro no Corda, Volume 10
10. Oishimbo, Volume 101

 

[De La Croissant]

I know this.
But from 99 to 2002 it dropped from 1 to 14.
I don't know what happened.

The end of the anime and the hiatus.

HxH was very popular from the start. People often say that if not for the pauses, the series would be the number 2 of the magazine.

 

[SharkBait]

So, does that mean you're joking when you said you hated Lady Justice? All the legit criticism(excessive fanservice) about Lady Justice was just a mere cover up of how much you like the series?
Because that's what your statement is totally implying in general. So, if I write any sort of criticism about Black Clover, I'm just being a tsundere about not liking the series!

Well the difference is that if I don't like a series I drop it. So my criticisms for Lady Justice were reasons that I never even read even a gram of it. It was flawed at the conceptual stage and thus didn't imply to me to even give it any bit of time. Notice that I have not commented about it at all ever since saying its criticisms.

People that seemingly dislike BLack Clover from chapter one still seem to read it weekly, the same as people who criticize Bleach, Fairy Tail, Naruto read it every week still.Clearly there was something they liked about all these series that kept them reading, which is why, it is hard to accept the platform that they hate the series. Yuri manga is like avocados or guacamole to me, I hate avocados and guacamole, and therefore I dont eat them. Since Yuri manga is the same, I dont read Yuri manga.

I'm happy that you're enjoying Black Clover and that you want your favourite manga to succeed. When it comes to any sort of criticism, being defensive about it is normal. I'm pretty defensive when other people criticize my favourite series but I accept that people have different taste from me and that my favourite series has flaws.

Let's face it, not everybody like the same thing and nothing is truly perfect. You don't like Lady Justice (you even voiced your criticism about it) but there are other that actually enjoy the series despite the flaws. Likewise, you enjoy Black Clover but there are other who don't. It has nothing to do with "hating on popular series" mentality. People just have different taste.

It's really really really obvious that you like Black Clover. From your POV, any criticism about it is blasphemy. You can be defensive all you want but please don't put down other people opinion as a mere joke or haters. If you disagree with them, just have a discussion with them.

Likewise with Naruto and Fairy Tail, people have voiced out their criticism about it. But it doesn't stop people from enjoying it and debating it regardless.

I believe I am extremely open minded to people's opinions and value each one as if they were a coveted diamond in the rough. I insert each opinion onto an imaginary scale and weigh them against my own to see if they are similar or different. It is no secret that I value extremely well written, unique, and definitive series focusing on friendship and the grassroots values of action manga and have unfortunately been caught in the rut of being a hardcore fan of literary masterpieces in Jump that have met an unfortunate end (Gakkyu Hotei, Stealth Symphony) and that never had a positive fandom on this site. However, their opinions were contrary to reality in that these were not flawed series but literary masterpieces. The same is true for BLack Clover which is fortunately avoiding an unfortunate end. Im always willing and open to discuss the beauty of these manga.

 

[Bigivelfhq]

I would not say low since it got 1st place on the TOC. Yeah it did not sold so well like BnHA but 38k is pretty empresive for a new series. Just look at the others "newcomers" how much they sold.
I bet even Naruto One Piece sold less than this.

You know that One Piece first volume got a 300k 1st print, right? And that next volumes started getting even bigger print values right? One Piece totally sold more than 38k!

While Naruto got worse rankings than Black Clover at the beginning(it really did?) I don't doubt it sold more than 38k in its first volume.

 

[susanoo13]

Naruto Volume 6 sold 800K and with the beginning of the anime Naruto has reached the stage that it's at today of 1.2M IIRC. It was posted here a couple of years ago. I would assume it sold around 200K in it's beginning and on another note, DGM which peaked at 750K sale when the anime aired, sold for it's first volume even more than one piece(stated to be the series to reach 1M in sales the fastest ever or second only to Death note)

 

[Bigivelfhq]

(2002)

Volume 8
14. HunterxHunter

Volume 9
13. HunterxHunter

Volume 12
11. HunterxHunter

Volume 16
14. HunterxHunter

Volume 24
14. HunterxHunter



The "oh, so pretty" hxh was not a instant success as some people say it seems...

Hunter x Hunter

Note: This are pure rankings, cover and color pages are still counted

Before Ranking
1st chapter - 1st place
2nd ch - 4th
3rd ch - 8th
4th ch - 5th
5th ch - 9th
6th ch - 7th
7th ch - 6th

Begin Ranking
8th ch - 4th
9th ch - 5th
10th ch - 7th
11th ch - 4th
12th ch - 6th
13th ch - 6th
14th ch - 3rd
15th ch - 5th
16th ch - 6th

 

[WyldViolet]

Well the difference is that if I don't like a series I drop it. So my criticisms for Lady Justice were reasons that I never even read even a gram of it. It was flawed at the conceptual stage and thus didn't imply to me to even give it any bit of time. Notice that I have not commented about it at all ever since saying its criticisms.

People that seemingly dislike BLack Clover from chapter one still seem to read it weekly, the same as people who criticize Bleach, Fairy Tail, Naruto read it every week still.Clearly there was something they liked about all these series that kept them reading, which is why, it is hard to accept the platform that they hate the series. Yuri manga is like avocados or guacamole to me, I hate avocados and guacamole, and therefore I dont eat them. Since Yuri manga is the same, I dont read Yuri manga.



I believe I am extremely open minded to people's opinions and value each one as if they were a coveted diamond in the rough. I insert each opinion onto an imaginary scale and weigh them against my own to see if they are similar or different. It is no secret that I value extremely well written, unique, and definitive series focusing on friendship and the grassroots values of action manga and have unfortunately been caught in the rut of being a hardcore fan of literary masterpieces in Jump that have met an unfortunate end (Gakkyu Hotei, Stealth Symphony) and that never had a positive fandom on this site. However, their opinions were contrary to reality in that these were not flawed series but literary masterpieces. The same is true for BLack Clover which is fortunately avoiding an unfortunate end. Im always willing and open to discuss the beauty of these manga.

You keep saying literary masterpiece but I don't think you know what that means.
An artistic masterpiece is something along the lines of My Night At Maud's by Eric Rohmer, Andrei Rublev by Andrei Tarkovsky, if On A Winters Night A Traveler by Italo Calvino, Spirit They've Gone They've Vanished by Animal Collective, or Tago Mago by Can.
Something that has impeccable everything, embraces experimentation while still being somewhat accessible, and are also incredibly influential or innovative.
Not some silly child's comic book.

 

[susanoo13]

Do in your comment, you claim that there are no mangas whatsoever to be literary masterpieces?

I would admit that I don't know the world of literature well enough yet I can somewhat get a picture of your definition for a litarary masterpiece. The only manga that comes to mind for me would be Slam dunk, that had an impact over a whole country and as of it the entire state of basketball in japan took a leap to the better. The term really does sound hypebolic in relation to manga although it's my favourite medium for fun and inspiring stories.

 

[WyldViolet]

Do in your comment, you claim that there are no mangas whatsoever to be literary masterpieces?

I would admit that I don't know the world of literature well enough yet I can somewhat get a picture of your definition for a litarary masterpiece. The only manga that comes to mind for me would be Slam dunk, that had an impact over a whole country and as of it the entire state of basketball in japan took a leap to the better. The term really does sound hypebolic in relation to manga although it's my favourite medium for fun and inspiring stories.

I don't think there is such a thing as a manga masterpiece (yet) (anime however is a different story) due to it being such a profit driven industry, without any waves of artistic experimentation or innovation like film, music, and literature all have had.
There are things that are very good, like Yotsubato!, and the works of Asano Inio, but being very good is not the same as being a masterpiece.
A masterpiece is something without flaws, and not even the most diehard Naruto or Black Clover fans can claim it is devoid of flaws.

Also, I'm not trying to claim that all childrens works are incapable of being masterpieces. (Pixar made Toy Story, Wall*E, Up, Disney also made Snow White, Fantasia, and Bambi) just that most aren't and never will be because they are written for children and children don't care about quality.

 

[SharkBait]

You keep saying literary masterpiece but I don't think you know what that means.
An artistic masterpiece is something along the lines of My Night At Maud's by Eric Rohmer, Andrei Rublev by Andrei Tarkovsky, if On A Winters Night A Traveler by Italo Calvino, Spirit They've Gone They've Vanished by Animal Collective, or Tago Mago by Can.
Something that has impeccable everything, embraces experimentation while still being somewhat accessible, and are also incredibly influential or innovative.
Not some silly child's comic book.

Why cant something targeting children be a masterpiece. Should Watership Down, a true literary masterpiece, be downgraded to some silly novel because it is read by children?

It's also hard not to be arrogant about my knowledge when you see things like people praising mediocre directors like Christopher Nolan, yet not even being aware of the existence of incredibly entry level as well as freakishly influential directors like Ingmar Bergman.

I wish Michael Bay got more love instead of Nolan. Mr. Bay always makes movies such exciting and visceral affairs pushing the limits on sound technology and visual effects. His mechas movies make me drool from the extensive details to mechs on screen (and Shia).

 

[WyldViolet]

Why cant something targeting children be a masterpiece. Should Watership Down, a true literary masterpiece, be downgraded to some silly novel because it is read by children?





I wish Michael Bay got more love instead of Nolan. Mr. Bay always makes movies such exciting and visceral affairs pushing the limits on sound technology and visual effects. His mechas movies make me drool from the extensive details to mechs on screen (and Shia).

1. Read the rest of my posts on the page. I clearly said that works aimed at children CAN be masterpieces, but most aren't.
2. Michael Bay? The guy is not comparable to Nolan at all. Nolan is a pretentious hack who has no understanding of proper exposition, pacing, or plotting and makes popcorn movies that pretend to be high art (he's a counterfeit asshole). Meanwhile Bay is just a stylistic action movie director who makes incredibly poorly written but flashy movies.
Their movies aren't comparable in the slightest.

Also, the fact that you are defending Bay makes me feel like you really do just want to be a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian.

 

[vinceled]

The end of the anime and the hiatus.

HxH was very popular from the start. People often say that if not for the pauses, the series would be the number 2 of the magazine.

Back when v.32 was published in 2012, it sold more than the volume of Naruto published at the same time.

 

[WyldViolet]

HxH totally isn't a pillar of Jump, no way.

 

[conankudo]

HxH totally isn't a pillar of Jump, no way.

Not anymore, even though it is on of the Top 10 best selling Shonen Jump Titles. However HxH is a pillar of Shueisha. The readership of Jump is changing every 5 years - so most of the readers do not know HxH through Jump at all unless they read the volumes

 

[De La Croissant]

Yes, he is no longer a pillar, but, as I said, could easily have been. In other words, bleach was an intruder. XD

 

[DeidaraGrimmjow]

Yes, he is no longer a pillar, but, as I said, could easily have been. In other words, bleach was an intruder. XD

There's no rule that there has to be only three pillars. Bleach could have just been the fourth. 4 makes for more appropriate number than 3 anyway if you're talking about "pillars."

 

[piau9000]

You know that One Piece first volume got a 300k 1st print, right? And that next volumes started getting even bigger print values right? One Piece totally sold more than 38k!

While Naruto got worse rankings than Black Clover at the beginning(it really did?) I don't doubt it sold more than 38k in its first volume.

Source?
I can't find any official source that states the amount of sales on the "first week" of One Piece or even Naruto.
Is there a place where you can find this kind of information.

And Naruto DID started worse than BC. You can see clearly in the ranks.
Even the HxH ranks that you posted show that it ranked worse than BC too. Completely opposite of what everyone says.

Does this make Black Clover a instant classic too?

I can't foretell what will happen in the future but Black Clover can pretty much fall to the last position and get cancelled in the next issues.
Or it can get bigger than Naruto.
But given the good start I believe more in the later.

 

[De La Croissant]

There's no rule that there has to be only three pillars. Bleach could have just been the fourth. 4 makes for more appropriate number than 3 anyway if you're talking about "pillars."

Just kidding. What about the old work of Shimabukuro? I heard it was well famous and that was to get an anime, but the author was arrested.

 

[xi0]

Admin Notice:
Yeah, let's try to stay on-topic please~ xi0