Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2015] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Avok]

That's the same that has happened with HxH. He's just sick of drawing it, and he seems too stubborn to let other people do the drawings.

 

[conankudo]

Very intersting, where is this from? The last YYH volumen?

The second one is a letter Togashi wrote about why he ended Yu Yu Hakusho early 20 years ago (keep that in mind). Ask kewl0210 he translated that letter a couple of years ago. Im not sure to whom Togashi wrote this letter

 

[WyldViolet]

That's the same that has happened with HxH. He's just sick of drawing it, and he seems too stubborn to let other people do the drawings.

It has nothing to do with being stubborn.
You clearly aren't an artist so you wouldn't understand.
Your art is like your baby, I could never let somebody take one of my films from me and direct it instead. That would just be one of the worst things I can imagine. Artists have very specific ideas for how they want their art to turn out. Having somebody else work on it means that you aren't in complete control, Togashi wants it to be entirely his work.
It's not being stubborn, it's being an artist.

 

[N0R7H]

But being a mangaka is like being a director. The director can do a film by himself, but it won't be as good as if there are more people doing the sfx, the art direction... And the film is under the director's name, not under all the people who worked on it. Also, a mangaka can do the manga by himself, but it won't be as good as if he does the story, and the main drawings, letting the assitants do the backgrounds, shadows and so. The manga will be under the mangaka's name, and the assistants will only appear on the credits, and not always (like in Ao no Exorcist).
I mean, I think he is stubborn because he doesn't want people to help him. He would need much less time to finish the chapters, and would end with a higher quality than it has right now. I'm sure he can't be satisfied doing it by himself and having such a crappy art.

 

[Txapeldun]

Guys, please respect Togashi. He's not your slave.

 

[kewl0210]

He published a doujinshi shortly after YYH ended and it showed up on the (English-speaking) internet in like 2007~2008 when I originally translated it. I'm sure it's been posted here numerous times. This is from 20+ years ago guys (YYH ended in 1994), stop trying to say it's exactly the same as what's going on today. Togashi has 2 kids and he's been drawing manga since 1986. Plus apparently he has back problems. He takes breaks so he can live his life and so he can do the manga the way he wants.

 

[piau9000]

He don't seem to be happy with what he does. He began a new series and then gets bored.
He should start to do things on his own and stop working in Shueisha. This way he can have all the time a freedon that he wants.
Let other artists (more professional ones) do the serializations.

That's why I hate these "artists".
They complain too much but they don't want to change anything.
You don't need to work on a publisher (that have a lot deadlines) to release your art.
You can do the things on your own.

"But I only get money if I work on publisher!"
Then be a professional.


Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that the way the publishers work in Japan are optimal. They suffer a lot.
But they have to do something to change it and stop complaining.

 

[SharkBait]

New live movie for Death Note in 2016 by Shinsuke Satoh.
http://www.animeland.com/news/voir/9515/Death-Note

Glad were getting that from jpn and one from hollywood (please have zac efron as Light, and ashley tisdale as misa misa)

New DN movie sounds great as it seems to bring many fics into canon territory with a now further reconfirmed romantically involved Light x L happening behind the scenes and their offspring being brought to fruition.

---------- Post added at 12:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 AM ----------

 

[Avok]

It has nothing to do with being stubborn.
You clearly aren't an artist so you wouldn't understand.
Your art is like your baby, I could never let somebody take one of my films from me and direct it instead. That would just be one of the worst things I can imagine. Artists have very specific ideas for how they want their art to turn out. Having somebody else work on it means that you aren't in complete control, Togashi wants it to be entirely his work.
It's not being stubborn, it's being an artist.

Okay mister artist.
That's not the case with these manga. They have assistants (I think Togashi doesn't, but still) an editor and an editoral department behind them. They don't have complete freedom on what they can or cannot do with their stories.

He even says it in that interview:
My attempts to deconstruct the characters were, of course, turned down by Jump.

What I can grasp is he isn't happy with the way the manga industry (or atleast Jump) is (deadlines, the editors, not having complete control over his work, etc) and yet he still runs a manga in Shonen Jump, the most strict of the magazines. I think that's being stubborn as he know how the industry work.

I don't even read HxH so it's not like I want him to come back and work. I'm just giving my two cents in the matter.

Btw, weren't you the one who said that manga wasn't art or something like that? lol

 

[perroloco]

I really don´t mean to disrespect Togashi, and I´m happy for him, but he was really stubborn back in YYH if you think about it.
Like is there any other word to describe someone that supposedly suffered hand (and now back) problems and that refuses to hire assistant to do backgrounds, which by the way were basically non-existant in most of the second half of Yu Yu Hakusho?

Like I would understand he is an artist if he drew the backgrounds, but he didn´t.. He should just have hired someone to draw the backgrounds, I think.

Also, I definetly think Togashi is enjoying doing HxH, like maybe back in 1994 Togashi was miserable doing YYH, but now I think he´s just doing HxH at his own peace, which is good.

EDIT: LOOOOL After typing this I googled the doujinshi you guys were talking about and lol Togashi makes fun of this himself, check the page ¨such a gorgeous room. It cant ever be drawn"

 

[Schabrak]

EDIT: LOOOOL After typing this I googled the doujinshi you guys were talking about and lol Togashi makes fun of this himself, check the page ¨such a gorgeous room. It cant ever be drawn"

Our very own [USER]Maxy Barnard[/USER] had a podcast episode about YYH and that special doujinshi IIRC.(It's been a couple years. :P) Give his other episodes a listen too, he's done some great work.

https://friendshipeffortvictory.wordpress.com/2012/11/09/fev03/

Okay mister artist.
That's not the case with these manga. They have assistants (I think Togashi doesn't, but still) an editor and an editoral department behind them. They don't have complete freedom on what they can or cannot do with their stories.

I don't even read HxH so it's not like I want him to come back and work. I'm just giving my two cents in the matter. l

Criticizing a work that you haven't even touched yet, oooooooooooooooooooouch! Had you read the manga, you would know that he often doesn't even need backgrounds, and if he draws them they often have some significance or effect. Many shoujo manga work with white backgrounds for a very good reason too. Kubo Tite uses them sparely too at times. Manga often aren't supposed to be photorealistic, so why would we need backgrounds everywhere?

 

[WyldViolet]

Okay mister artist.
That's not the case with these manga. They have assistants (I think Togashi doesn't, but still) an editor and an editoral department behind them. They don't have complete freedom on what they can or cannot do with their stories.

He even says it in that interview:
My attempts to deconstruct the characters were, of course, turned down by Jump.

What I can grasp is he isn't happy with the way the manga industry (or atleast Jump) is (deadlines, the editors, not having complete control over his work, etc) and yet he still runs a manga in Shonen Jump, the most strict of the magazines. I think that's being stubborn as he know how the industry work.

I don't even read HxH so it's not like I want him to come back and work. I'm just giving my two cents in the matter.

Btw, weren't you the one who said that manga wasn't art or something like that? lol

If you read HxH or were familiar with the situation then you'd realize that Togashi does have complete control over his current series because they were desperate for him to come back to the magazine because he wanted to leave after Level E because of how he was treated with YYH.
That explains the gore, the complete ignoring/deconstruction of typical shonen tropes (which is something he wanted to do in YYH but was not able to at that time but can now), the rough art at times, and the frequent hiatuses.
If you admit to not knowing anything about the series then why bother posting about it?

Also, I believe that manga is mostly not as sophisticated as an art form as say film or music.
If the pinnacle of artistic manga is something like Asano Inio or Junji Ito (which don't get me wrong, are great but not at the same level as other artistic mediums) then they simply can't compare to the best of film like Eric Rohmer, Yasujiro Ozu, Abbas Kiarostami, Terrence Malick, Andrei Tarkovsky, Richard Linklater, Andrew Bujalski, Miroslav Slaboshpitsky.
What's the manga artistic equivalent to the best films of those directors?
How about music, how about Animal Collective, The Residents, Death Grips, Cornelius, Brian Wilson, Silver Apples, Michael Pisaro?
I love manga, I read A LOT of it. However my main loves are film and music because as an artist they are more creatively and emotionally fulfilling. Most manga are just cheap entertainment, there are occasional exceptions, but even Oyasumi Punpun is flawed with needless sideplots and a ridiculous amount of melodrama towards the end where a naturalistic approach would have been more successful.

 

[Schabrak]

...and yet he still runs a manga in Shonen Jump, the most strict of the magazines. I think that's being stubborn as he know how the industry work.

Just think about what kind of massively great deal he must have made after the YYH disaster and their wish to get another big manga from him. Being married to Takeuchi he never had the need to work again to begin with. I can only think of Oda having a better contract right now.

Most manga are just cheap entertainment, there are occasional exceptions, ...

You will have to admit that it's the same case for motion pictures and music too though. The vast majority of music and film productions is for entertainment and little else. You have people from a pool of 7.3 billion people working on those and only 127 million possible candidates in the japanese manga industry. That's not even 2% of the previous total, allowing 50 times more music and films to have been made more artistically pleasing than manga.

 

[WyldViolet]

You will have to admit that it's the same case for motion pictures and music too though. The vast majority of music and film productions is for entertainment and little else.

Of course, but there is still a substantial amount of more sophisticated works out there than there are for manga.

 

[Schabrak]

Sorry edited that into the post a bit too late. :P Maybe it would be great if mangaka would try to work on more short manga, so they won't be hindered by the many problems of long running series, which of course is often their main goal to stay in the industry and gain success.

For example the latest romcom Nisekoi started great, but ended up shitty real fast as soon as Komi started to prolong the series. It was never near being a masterpiece, but it's a recent example of degredation through forced means of the editor or himself to stay in the business. Movies are done being ~60-120 minutes long, albums having ten to twenty songs, It's always a different case with manga, which have no "normal" length. In conclusion, it's harder staying great or becoming honorable considering the manga business model.

 

[Bonefist]

Also, I believe that manga is mostly not as sophisticated as an art form as say film or music.
If the pinnacle of artistic manga is something like Asano Inio or Junji Ito (which don't get me wrong, are great but not at the same level as other artistic mediums) then they simply can't compare to the best of film like Eric Rohmer, Yasujiro Ozu, Abbas Kiarostami, Terrence Malick, Andrei Tarkovsky, Richard Linklater, Andrew Bujalski, Miroslav Slaboshpitsky.
What's the manga artistic equivalent to the best films of those directors?
How about music, how about Animal Collective, The Residents, Death Grips, Cornelius, Brian Wilson, Silver Apples, Michael Pisaro?
I love manga, I read A LOT of it. However my main loves are film and music because as an artist they are more creatively and emotionally fulfilling. Most manga are just cheap entertainment, there are occasional exceptions, but even Oyasumi Punpun is flawed with needless sideplots and a ridiculous amount of melodrama towards the end where a naturalistic approach would have been more successful.

I don't think there's more entertainment in manga than films, books or musics. They're all Art, but different. You can be speechless when you read some gekiga from Hirata, Kamimura or most commonly, Taniguchi. Tezuka and others has done pretty deep things, too. Just like you can be mesmerized with a "simple" draw, and be jaded by an over detailed paint. You're quoting a lot of artists who're underrated for the populace, and what we got from Japan — and what is popular — is only a little piece of what artists did. A lot of manga doesn't pass borders, and at least you can understand, read Japanese and travel there, you'll never hear about these works, even with Edited Mangas.

Eventually, it's just your point of view and your tastes. You're just more attracted by a medium and not by another. But you can't say there are less sophisticated pieces in manga than in another sphere. I found Oyasumi Punpun really boring all along, because it's not my cup of tea. However I can understand that some love Asano's works for his themes, his draws, etc. Just like I don't like american Comics (pleonasm ?), even if it must have a lot of good things in it.

 

[chrisbj]

Glad were getting that from jpn and one from hollywood (please have zac efron as Light, and ashley tisdale as misa misa)

New DN movie sounds great as it seems to bring many fics into canon territory with a now further reconfirmed romantically involved Light x L happening behind the scenes and their offspring being brought to fruition.

---------- Post added at 12:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 AM ----------

Kubo's comment feels a bit ominous, Bleach may be ending sooner than expected......

 

[Soul Soul Brigade]

Shonen Jump+ x Animax Winner announced. Series will be called "Luger Code 1951" premise is "The story centers around the young linguistic genius and university professor Testa. He is introduced by his senior, Sergeant Rossa, to the Allied Cryptanalysis Department. There, he is tasked to break the enemy werewolves' code, which the werewolves are using to encrypt their radio transmissions. Testa is astounded, as the only sound the encrypted code produces is the howling of a wolf. His research yields no results, and he resolves to capture a live werewolf for better cryptanalysis. After exhausting all possible means, he finally finds a female werewolf, Yonaga."
Manga will be coming out within a year and Animax will air the anime (movie/TV special) next year.

Source ANN: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/new...cenario-writing-award-winner-announced/.92907

 

[Avok]

Criticizing a work that you haven't even touched yet, oooooooooooooooooooouch! Had you read the manga, you would know that he often doesn't even need backgrounds, and if he draws them they often have some significance or effect. Many shoujo manga work with white backgrounds for a very good reason too. Kubo Tite uses them sparely too at times. Manga often aren't supposed to be photorealistic, so why would we need backgrounds everywhere?

I'm not criticizing his work, I just don't think his work ethic is right.

If you read HxH or were familiar with the situation then you'd realize that Togashi does have complete control over his current series because they were desperate for him to come back to the magazine because he wanted to leave after Level E because of how he was treated with YYH.
That explains the gore, the complete ignoring/deconstruction of typical shonen tropes (which is something he wanted to do in YYH but was not able to at that time but can now), the rough art at times, and the frequent hiatuses.
If you admit to not knowing anything about the series then why bother posting about it?

Also, I believe that manga is mostly not as sophisticated as an art form as say film or music.
If the pinnacle of artistic manga is something like Asano Inio or Junji Ito (which don't get me wrong, are great but not at the same level as other artistic mediums) then they simply can't compare to the best of film like Eric Rohmer, Yasujiro Ozu, Abbas Kiarostami, Terrence Malick, Andrei Tarkovsky, Richard Linklater, Andrew Bujalski, Miroslav Slaboshpitsky.
What's the manga artistic equivalent to the best films of those directors?
How about music, how about Animal Collective, The Residents, Death Grips, Cornelius, Brian Wilson, Silver Apples, Michael Pisaro?
I love manga, I read A LOT of it. However my main loves are film and music because as an artist they are more creatively and emotionally fulfilling. Most manga are just cheap entertainment, there are occasional exceptions, but even Oyasumi Punpun is flawed with needless sideplots and a ridiculous amount of melodrama towards the end where a naturalistic approach would have been more successful.

I don't know anything plot-related of the series but I know the situation with the hiatuses and all of that.

 

[Schabrak]

I'm not criticizing his work, I just don't think his work ethic is right.

The end product is in direct correlation with his work ethic in this case though, inextricable if we look back to the beginning of his scribble art.. Don't start arguments, if you aren't ready to go through with them?

Going back to your first post, how would you know that he's sick of drawing it? Be careful with those allegations/slander, especially considering how it was him that has gone back from the year long hiatus to draw a dozen chapters beginning a whole new massive arc. See, again you miss stuff because you have no insight into the actual manga.