Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Leoat12]

They would just need to adapt the entirety of the 1st chapter in the 1st episode. And if they thought it would really need more episodes, they should have done a special 1st episode with the length of 2 episodes. Is not the first time that such a thing is done. Fate/Zero and Re:Zero did it.

A long time has passed since I read My Hero Academia first chapter, so I don't remember very well, but I think it was too dense, many things happened at that chapter, I don't know if they would be able to adapt everything in one episode...
It can be done, but it is rare possibly because it is difficult to find a timeslot suitable for it. Re:Zero was absolutely necessary because the events were epic together, My Hero Academia didn't have this kind of impact...

 

[savethecat]

Being well done scenes doesn't mean it can't be done other way. The fact is that they spent a lot of time with the scenes, and that others have spent less time in similar scenes.

Example, How much different in terms of content did the 1st chapter of MHA had in comparison with Naruto, Bleach, One Piece and Hunter x Hunter 1st chapter? They all have around the same content, and both Naruto, One Piece and HxH(1999) were able to adapt the 1st chapter in 1 episode. There is no reason to believe MHA is a different case.

I mean of course it COULD be done, but I'd say MHA's first 2 episodes were better executed than the first episodes of Naruto, Bleach, and I'd argue One Piece(not the quality of the story, but the adaptation itself).

The added material helped the story, and overall I'd say the first 2 episodes are better than the first chapter.
I know it's possible to be done, but I thought it was a near perfect adaptation of the first chapter. I can't see how they could possibly reduce it into 24 minutes and somehow make it better than what they did with 2 episodes.

I agree the pacing should have been sped up else where, but in those 1st 2 episodes the pacing was well done

 

[ChocoBar9]

Naruto 1st episode was in no way rushed. I also don't agree, though will no further discuss, about it being poorly animated and edited.

It was rushed and poorly animated not even sure how you can even argue this because it was Pierrot's first digipaint show and also edited out most of the content from the first chapter

The first HxH TV anime in fact did adapt the entire first chapter, only changing the Gon leaving into the Ship at the main port, to a boat out of the village.

That also had a lot of edits in it then again the first chapter was only 30 or so pages.

The Remake 1 episode adapted the 2 first chapters!

By editing out pretty much everything in those two chapters to get to that point.

They would just need to adapt the entirety of the 1st chapter in the 1st episode. And if they thought it would really need more episodes, they should have done a special 1st episode with the length of 2 episodes. Is not the first time that such a thing is done.

So people would rather a rushed first episode to get to the point than a well-done faithfully adapted one because they feel that the anime did a poor job in hooking new audiences?

Fate/Zero and Re:Zero did it.

Ironically enough the first episodes of both of those shows were lambasted for being exceptionally tedious to watch due to the frequent pauses in exposition and no real payoff.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2017 ---

Being well done scenes doesn't mean it can't be done other way. The fact is that they spent a lot of time with the scenes, and that others have spent less time in similar scenes.

Example, How much different in terms of content did the 1st chapter of MHA had in comparison with Naruto, Bleach, One Piece and Hunter x Hunter 1st chapter? They all have around the same content, and both Naruto, One Piece and HxH(1999) were able to adapt the 1st chapter in 1 episode. There is no reason to believe MHA is a different case.

They edit out and changed a lot of shit in the first episodes of all them. And the first episode of Naruto looked deplorable. The first episode of One Piece didn't even cover the first chapter but started in the second one. Bleach is a better example because it did cover the entirety of the first chapter but not much happened in it to begin with.

 

[Leoat12]

Ironically enough the first episodes of both of those shows were lambasted for being exceptionally tedious to watch due to the frequent pauses in exposition and no real payoff.

What?! I don't know about Fate Zero, but Re:zero first episode was a huge success! There are always haters, but the majority of the people I know enjoyed it a lot. That was when the anime caught the attention of many people. Then there was Rem to finish the job. XD

 

[ChocoBar9]

A long time has passed since I read My Hero Academia first chapter, so I don't remember very well, but I think it was too dense, many things happened at that chapter, I don't know if they would be able to adapt everything in one episode...
It can be done, but it is rare possibly because it is difficult to find a timeslot suitable for it. Re:Zero was absolutely necessary because the events were epic together, My Hero Academia didn't have this kind of impact...

Which is ironic because people hated that first episode and the series didn't start getting appraisal until 9th episode. once it stopped being repetitious as shit and more focused.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2017 ---

What?! I don't know about Fate Zero, but Re:zero first episode was a huge success! There are always haters, but the majority of the people I know enjoyed it a lot. That was when the anime caught the attention of many people. Then there was Rem to finish the job. XD

No it wasn't. A lot of people did not like that first episode just from looking at nico rankings and reception through most boards citing the same thing
- This is boring
- The MC is terrible
- Why is it mostly talking
It took a while before that show received any sort of praise and it was mostly because of Rem in the second arc hence why its preorder numbers skyrocketed during her episode. Fate/Zero was always going to do well due to how faithful the Type Moon fanbase is but a lot of people agree that the first episode was not a great introduction to newbies.

 

[Nii]

Its traction was nowhere near as big as it was until episode 7, before it was doing the same as any other fujobait show before it like Free and you can even see the jump in preorders after the 7th episode. It was probably always going to do good but no one expected it to do THAT well.


There's a plethora of series that proves this isn't the case one of the most recently ongoing examples is Jojo which gained a huge boost in popularity thanks to the anime and of course there's Hunter X Hunter which got a huge boost in popularity due to the 2011 anime. Of course you can always make the argument that these series were always popular negating the fact that they weren't getting nearly as much traction as they are now but that's another argument entirely.

So by that logic we can expect every company to want every series to be the next One Piece, I'm pretty sure Shuiesha has much more realistic expectations than whatever is being mouthed off here and given that they're only really going to profit off manga sales versus anime discs (Toho) and merchandise (Takara Tomy) we pretty much are just making guessing based on nothing.

Well gimme a link to prove what you said and I will believe you

Are we talking about the japanese or the english fanbase? I didn't see any big increase for either JoJo or HxH in Japan, at least certainly not with the manga volumes sales. If you're talking about merchandise, give me a source. And not anime merchandise, bc obviously they couldn't have bought that before the anime was released xD I'm aware JoJo's BDs are selling pretty well, but it has always been a very popular franchise in Japan, if anything it improved recognition/awareness among young people. Again I don't really follow your "traction" argument, ofc with more material people will talk about it more, but I have yet to see any cold hard numbers that prove your statement.

I'm sure that's what they want yes, expecting it most likely not though.
And considering it's their brand they most likely get a share of everything that's sold, even if they probably get a bigger portion for manga volumes. It's like saying George Lukas became that rich just by selling copies of the Star Wars movies, the vast number of merchandise and games is what made the money flood in, so saying Shueisha only cares for manga sales is kind of weird. Ofc it's all just speculation anyway, but "my guess" is that they were hoping for more. Maybe that's not true, maybe it's not.

 

[Leoat12]

Which is ironic because people hated that first episode and the series didn't start getting appraisal until 9th episode. once it stopped being repetitious as shit and more focused.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2017 ---

No it wasn't. A lot of people did not like that first episode just from looking at nico rankings and reception through most boards citing the same thing
- This is boring
- The MC is terrible
- Why is it mostly talking
It took a while before that show received any sort of praise and it was mostly because of Rem in the second arc hence why its preorder numbers skyrocketed during her episode. Fate/Zero was always going to do well due to how faithful the Type Moon fanbase is but a lot of people agree that the first episode was not a great introduction to newbies.

Ask to Re:zero to stop being "repetitive" (it is not actually repetitive, but it is another matter) is the same as asking to not exist at all since it is the purpose of the series: Subaru returning by death and changing things to avoid the disasters. After the 9th episode it kept "repetitive" as much as the early episodes. XD

Well, in my circle it was well received earlier than that. I can only say what I saw.
As for Subaru, he is more annoying in the anime than he actually is... It is always the same problem with light novels, which are often written in first person, the anime doesn't convey all thoughts of the person who is narrating who is, in Re:zero's case, Subaru.

 

[Bigivelfhq]

1

A long time has passed since I read My Hero Academia first chapter, so I don't remember very well, but I think it was too dense, many things happened at that chapter, I don't know if they would be able to adapt everything in one episode...
It can be done, but it is rare possibly because it is difficult to find a timeslot suitable for it. Re:Zero was absolutely necessary because the events were epic together, My Hero Academia didn't have this kind of impact...

Nope, there was no density to them.
You Have the Deku watching the Newbie Heroes(1), The school(2), The Attack of the Mud Villain(3), Deku Talk with All Might(4), The Second Attack(5), The Resolution(6), The All Might Hero Talk(7).
Just 7 Major Scenes, it was totally doable in 1 episode. And they did just 4 in the 1st episode and 3 in the 2nd episode.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2017 ---

I mean of course it COULD be done, but I'd say MHA's first 2 episodes were better executed than the first episodes of Naruto, Bleach, and I'd argue One Piece(not the quality of the story, but the adaptation itself).

The added material helped the story, and overall I'd say the first 2 episodes are better than the first chapter.
I know it's possible to be done, but I thought it was a near perfect adaptation of the first chapter. I can't see how they could possibly reduce it into 24 minutes and somehow make it better than what they did with 2 episodes.

I agree the pacing should have been sped up else where, but in those 1st 2 episodes the pacing was well done

Not it wasn't better adapted. Specially in the 2nd episode.
I totally don't agree about the adaptation of those 3 being worse than My Hero Academia one.

Is not about make it only 1 episode and making it better, is about making it with around the same level, or with a decrease that is not significant. The fact that the 1st episode ended in such a bad part of the 1st chapter is a major negative point. Don't forget, people had to wait for 1 entire week to watch the 2nd episode. That is more important than "well adapted" and in fact I would say that it makes part of the adaptation, making it not near perfect at all.

 

[Bigivelfhq]

It was rushed and poorly animated not even sure how you can even argue this because it was Pierrot's first digipaint show and also edited out most of the content from the first chapter


That also had a lot of edits in it then again the first chapter was only 30 or so pages.


By editing out pretty much everything in those two chapters to get to that point.

So people would rather a rushed first episode to get to the point than a well-done faithfully adapted one because they feel that the anime did a poor job in hooking new audiences?


Ironically enough the first episodes of both of those shows were lambasted for being exceptionally tedious to watch due to the frequent pauses in exposition and no real payoff.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2017 ---

They edit out and changed a lot of shit in the first episodes of all them. And the first episode of Naruto looked deplorable. The first episode of One Piece didn't even cover the first chapter but started in the second one. Bleach is a better example because it did cover the entirety of the first chapter but not much happened in it to begin with.

Edited most of the content? Naruto 1st episode had all of the content the chapter had, with the exception of showing Naruto actually stealing the scroll from the 3rd Hokage. They even added scenes that added "body" to the episode, like the beginning scene with the Nine Tails, the Hokage and Gamambunta and Naruto as a Baby. And Iruka In Thinking of Naruto problems and his past problems.

Hunter x Hunter 1999 added a lot of stuff to the "barebones" HxH chapters were, adding a lot more Body to the series. That is one of the reasons I prefer the 1999 version to both the remake and the manga.

Yep, I know that the HxH 2011 edited the first 2 chapters. It was a response to you saying that the 1999 rushed and the Remake didn't.

The 1st chapter, 1st episode possible MHA adaptation, ending in a rushed episode is just your claim. You have to justify and show evidences of why that would be the case.
And no Saying that Naruto 1st episode was rushed is another claim. One that you also need to show more justification and evidences for.

The reason why Fate/Zero and Re:Zero are lambasted as being tedious(And that is not by everyone, in fact just the minority), has nothing to do with the adaptation.
Or are you saying that if the exact 2 first episodes of My Hero Academia that were shown to us by Bones aired in the same day they would turn to be tedious?

I'm not talking of the 1st episode of One Piece. I'm talking of the episode that adapted the 1st chapter of One Piece.

 

[savethecat]

1


Nope, there was no density to them.
You Have the Deku watching the Newbie Heroes(1), The school(2), The Attack of the Mud Villain(3), Deku Talk with All Might(4), The Second Attack(5), The Resolution(6), The All Might Hero Talk(7).
Just 7 Major Scenes, it was totally doable in 1 episode. And they did just 4 in the 1st episode and 3 in the 2nd episode.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2017 ---

Not it wasn't better adapted. Specially in the 2nd episode.
I totally don't agree about the adaptation of those 3 being worse than My Hero Academia one.

Is not about make it only 1 episode and making it better, is about making it with around the same level, or with a decrease that is not significant. The fact that the 1st episode ended in such a bad part of the 1st chapter is a major negative point. Don't forget, people had to wait for 1 entire week to watch the 2nd episode. That is more important than "well adapted" and in fact I would say that it makes part of the adaptation, making it not near perfect at all.

As far as animation, action, and pacing id say it's better. The first episode of Naruto wasn't all that great. Nor was One Piece. There not bad, but not great enough to justify your case. I'd say out of those 3, Bleach only had the great first episode.

And that is why I said that I'd only suggest that episode 1 and 2 should have aired as a 1 hour premiere rather than a week separation, but obviously they have no control over that.

All and all they adapted everything as it was in the chapter, and the small editions added better transitions between scenes.

Showing Deku running to the fight scene is a smoother transition than cutting right there initiate it after the flashback

Speeding through everything could have been done, but it would have felt too fast, like they were speeding everything just to fit it all in.

I guarantee that if MHA was a anime original with no manga to compare it to, there would be no criticism about episodes 1&2 needing to be together

 

[G_I_A]

Personally I only felt moved during MHA anime at the "ball moment".

And the soundtrack obviously... Oh it's awesome... Even today I still listen to it while working out.

 

[savethecat]

Also MHA's paced very different than Naruto and Bleach in the early chapters.

It reads more like a Marvel comic book where I lot of things are glossed in the first chapter

 

[Avok]

To me the MHA anime was pretty messy in terms of pacing. Obviously Shueisha wanted to get it out ASAP, so that's why we got 13 episodes.

The content itself was pretty meh too.
I hope the second season is as good as people say it'll be.

 

[HIGAN0]

Latest 1-shot in jump
Imawa no Juukurou One Shot by Fushimi Kousuke......... RAW

 

[xzaizenx]

To me the MHA anime was pretty messy in terms of pacing. Obviously Shueisha wanted to get it out ASAP, so that's why we got 13 episodes.

The content itself was pretty meh too.
I hope the second season is as good as people say it'll be.

Well 13 episode wasn't too bad of an idea. I still enjoy World Trigger but they had announced the anime at like chapter 50 and the 73 eps anime turned really bad imo. MHA was certainly good enough to raise the popularity

 

[savethecat]

Latest 1-shot in jump
Imawa no Juukurou One Shot by Fushimi Kousuke......... RAW

How is t? Looks interesting

 

[Divinenega]

Well 13 episode wasn't too bad of an idea. I still enjoy World Trigger but they had announced the anime at like chapter 50 and the 73 eps anime turned really bad imo. MHA was certainly good enough to raise the popularity

Being perfectly honest, between the two I'd actually say World Trigger's anime adaption was much better paced than MHA's for the most part (that first boardroom scene was...a thing). Heck I was actually kind of surprised it wasn't One Piece levels of slow when I first checked it out given there wasn't much manga to run on. The problem was entirely that it looked like dogshit. If not for that it might have been a success.

 

[Newkerzy]

Which is ironic because people hated that first episode and the series didn't start getting appraisal until 9th episode. once it stopped being repetitious as shit and more focused.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2017 ---

No it wasn't. A lot of people did not like that first episode just from looking at nico rankings and reception through most boards citing the same thing
- This is boring
- The MC is terrible
- Why is it mostly talking
It took a while before that show received any sort of praise and it was mostly because of Rem in the second arc hence why its preorder numbers skyrocketed during her episode. Fate/Zero was always going to do well due to how faithful the Type Moon fanbase is but a lot of people agree that the first episode was not a great introduction to newbies.

Coming from someone who came into Re:Zero on episode 17, I can agree with this. The first episodes were pretty tedious, the first parts of the second arc even felt dragged out, but by the time I got to Rem's episode, I could understand the hype surrounding her but it wasn't enough for me to call it great. It was only when we got into the third arc that I realized it was definitely something different. Episode 15: MIND. BLOWN. Episode 18: Rem is BEST GIRL nuff said. From then onwards, I declared it as anime of the year in my opinion.

 

[ChocoBar9]

Edited most of the content? Naruto 1st episode had all of the content the chapter had, with the exception of showing Naruto actually stealing the scroll from the 3rd Hokage. They even added scenes that added "body" to the episode, like the beginning scene with the Nine Tails, the Hokage and Gamambunta and Naruto as a Baby. And Iruka In Thinking of Naruto problems and his past problems.

There you go again making false claims while never backing them. This is even more pathetic because there's detailed summaries detailing what that episode left out from the first chapter.

Hunter x Hunter 1999 added a lot of stuff to the "barebones" HxH chapters were, adding a lot more Body to the series. That is one of the reasons I prefer the 1999 version to both the remake and the manga.

Yes that's not but it wasn't a complete adaptation of the first chapter of the manga.

The 1st chapter, 1st episode possible MHA adaptation, ending in a rushed episode is just your claim. You have to justify and show evidences of why that would be the case.

How about the fact that you're putting emphasis on mundane scenes "taking up to much time" that was in the manga rather than the stuff they added which were few and far in between if not any at all

The reason why Fate/Zero and Re:Zero are lambasted as being tedious(And that is not by everyone, in fact just the minority), has nothing to do with the adaptation.

Yep you just keep believing that and it has everything to do with the adaptation because that's how they saw fit the best way to transfer the text information from their respective LNs into animated form hence why we have people making jokes about the "walking in circle" scene and how the entirety of the episode was pure exposition granted the reception would improve as the story actually kicked off but they did a poor job of selling the show to newbies. As for Re:Zero I'm not even sure how someone can say with a straight face that the show was welcomed with opened arms before episode 9 considering Subaru ranked 1st in most annoying character of the spring season before then in Japan, it was definitely a show that rewarded those who stayed but it was a bumpy road to see the least.

Or are you saying that if the exact 2 first episodes of My Hero Academia that were shown to us by Bones aired in the same day they would turn to be tedious?

There was nothing wrong with those episodes to begin with infact the majority response is that people loved the pay off in episode 2 so the director must have done something right by not trying to squeeze everything into one episode.

I'm not talking of the 1st episode of One Piece. I'm talking of the episode that adapted the 1st chapter of One Piece.

That kind of defeats the whole point of your argument since Toei was never being faithful to the manga by adapting it out of order and showing Nami much earlier than intended.

 

[James Rye]

Being perfectly honest, between the two I'd actually say World Trigger's anime adaption was much better paced than MHA's for the most part (that first boardroom scene was...a thing). Heck I was actually kind of surprised it wasn't One Piece levels of slow when I first checked it out given there wasn't much manga to run on. The problem was entirely that it looked like dogshit. If not for that it might have been a success.

I loved that like over a minute long yelling in the Invasion arc, it was so obviously overlong that it became good and funny again. xD