Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

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Koi Kage

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I really liked this setup chapter of RxL and we've finally gotten to the point in RxL that'll make or break the series. Here's hoping for a good chapter for next week.
 

G_I_A

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I haven't followed Hunter X Hunter since chapter 340( aka the ending of the series for me and a good one at that). I refuse to wait years for a volume of content then repeat the process.

Anyway who are you guys favourite artists that make anime opening songs. Mine are Nico touches the walls, Asian kung fu generation, Spyair, Flow and Aqua Timez.
All of these plus:

Gran Rodeo, LMC, Back-On,
 

Bigivelfhq

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It only took Jojo 25 years to get a proper one... Jaguar is crying with its 10 years. As is Rokudenashi Blues with its 9, and Rising Impact with its 3.5. And many more... Granted all those series had good sales too, so it has nothing to do with that either.
Jaguar has an anime ->
Rokudenashi Blues had multiple anime movies ->
Rising impact is the only one case that had no anime.
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Rising Impact, Flowers of Keiji, Mr. Fullswing, Muhyo & Roji's, Rookies, Wild Half, Black Angels, Jinnai Ryuujuujutsu Butouden Majima-kun Suttobasu, Astro Kyuudan, Doberman Deka, Outer Zone ...

all of these lasted years in Jump without an anime

if you don't count ovas and movies as anime then the list will be even larger

as I'm writing this I see a lot of them are sport manga, weird how they ignored one of the most popular genres
It has everything to do with the times. In the past the series that would get anime were rarer than what is now. Now, we have the privilege of getting almost all successful series adapted into anime, in the past, nearer even, it wasn't like that.
 

Support

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I'm still really liking R&L too. I like the way they dropped in the golf terminology, as how they teach the sport is generally how I get hooked into sport series. Too much terminology and you might as well get a book, too little and there's literally no reason for it to be a golf or whatever manga. I think it'll do well enough if it keeps this up.

Dr. Stone is weird right now. It's like a super serious, yet stupidly goofy end of the world soap opera. Can't quite pin down the vibe of it so far.

Can't wait for the rankings!
 

Bigivelfhq

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HxH have EVERYTHING to do with the post. The 2011 is clearly one of the best animations lol. Way better than MHA for that matter and you know it =)

But ok... Who backs the dude's comment about MHA best animation ever?
In fact that is simply wrong. Much of 2011 animation is pretty limited even in Sakuga moments. Is pretty debatable if MHA has better animation or not.

But here is an example of HxH 2011 vs 1999 sakuga version(Look at the movement A.K.A Animation and compare) ->
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I don`t think the anime production staff knows more about the series than the author to have the right to change things in a work that is not theirs. Fillers has proved to be very bad and one of the best things that happened when the animation industry shifted from long animes to 12~24 episodes animes was that there is no space for fillers. This is a media adaptation and only things that helps the series be better animated is allowed to be added. The animation staff is there to adapt the manga to anime preserving the vision of the author, not introducing their own vision about it.
Seems like you don't understand what is the heart of an adaptation!

When the industry shifted to 12~24 episodes animes, series got less heart, rushed, and more unstable with their pace(the fact that they have a limited and set amount of episodes to adapt until a certain part of the story).
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I think both Hunter x Hunter adaptations despite their pros are pretty flawed. (typing on a tablet so I can't really go as in depth as I'd like to on this)

99 ruins the atmosphere of the manga by slowing down the pace, over-dramatizing things, and the color pallet. The more boring character designs don't help either.
HxH is supposed to be constantly tone shifting, and it's anti-climatic moments are part of what makes it so well written.
99 still has some incredible direction and animation but the adaptation thoroughly missed the point and made a much more generic feeling series than the manic beautiful mess which is the HxH manga.

The 2011 adaptation had some terrible music direction early on (but got better before York Shin), also the narration during the Ant arc just did not work in animation.
Otherwise it's a pretty damn brilliant adaptation.
"... constantly tone shifting, and it's Anti-climatic moments are part of what makes it so well written", WHAT?? O_O, this is like saying "my S**t is part of what makes me smell so well". Is totally a Fallacy, and it seems to me just used for the appearance of sophistication.
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The people who claim the 99 adaptation is superior are the same types of people who try and claim Gon-san was an asspull, or that the series doesn't have deconstruction tendencies.
They clearly aren't reading the same series.

Sure, it has some really nice direction and some pretty animation. Doesn't mean it didnt completely missed/ignore what Togashi was trying to do.
I claim 99 adaptation is superior!
Gon-san was an asspull. The excuse of Nene restrictions providing more power, and its only previous usage, Kurapika, doesn't in any way support what happened in that scene. Basically is the same bullshit that happens in Fairy Tail and the Frienship fight victories, only I would say HxH was worse.

If you knew what deconstruction means, instead of the stupid current popular audience that thinks that doing the opposite and darker theme is a deconstruction. Basically, is the same popular believe that thinks that Gore makes something mature.

Nope, I'm totally reading a different series, and watching. I read the manga, watched the 1999 and the 2011. But certainly I mistakes the name of the series and watched another story.

First, the point is not about missing/ignoring what Togashi was trying to do. This is an adaptation, is not invariably constrained to follow the author. The point is if it was better and better made than the manga and/or the 2011 anime. And the answer is a simple yes. HxH 1999 improved everything in the manga and made a way better story out of it.

Second, it doesn't have some really nice direction. It has a amazing direction. And it doesn't has some pretty animation, it has a pretty dam good animation. And unfortunately it was made in 1997 and not now with the improved techniques and a bigger focus to sakuga.
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Best OP ->
Best Ending ->
 

Leoat12

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Seems like you don't understand what is the heart of an adaptation!

When the industry shifted to 12~24 episodes animes, series got less heart, rushed, and more unstable with their pace(the fact that they have a limited and set amount of episodes to adapt until a certain part of the story).
Say it to One Piece and its bad pace.
Maybe my experience watching animes is too small for your almost divine knowledge, but I dare to say that we are better without long animes.
 

Bomber D Rufi

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In fact that is simply wrong. Much of 2011 animation is pretty limited even in Sakuga moments. Is pretty debatable if MHA has better animation or not.

But here is an example of HxH 2011 vs 1999 sakuga version(Look at the movement A.K.A Animation and compare) ->
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Seems like you don't understand what is the heart of an adaptation!

When the industry shifted to 12~24 episodes animes, series got less heart, rushed, and more unstable with their pace(the fact that they have a limited and set amount of episodes to adapt until a certain part of the story).
--- Double Post Merged, ---


"... constantly tone shifting, and it's Anti-climatic moments are part of what makes it so well written", WHAT?? O_O, this is like saying "my S**t is part of what makes me smell so well". Is totally a Fallacy, and it seems to me just used for the appearance of sophistication.
--- Double Post Merged, ---


I claim 99 adaptation is superior!
Gon-san was an asspull. The excuse of Nene restrictions providing more power, and its only previous usage, Kurapika, doesn't in any way support what happened in that scene. Basically is the same bullshit that happens in Fairy Tail and the Frienship fight victories, only I would say HxH was worse.

If you knew what deconstruction means, instead of the stupid current popular audience that thinks that doing the opposite and darker theme is a deconstruction. Basically, is the same popular believe that thinks that Gore makes something mature.

Nope, I'm totally reading a different series, and watching. I read the manga, watched the 1999 and the 2011. But certainly I mistakes the name of the series and watched another story.

First, the point is not about missing/ignoring what Togashi was trying to do. This is an adaptation, is not invariably constrained to follow the author. The point is if it was better and better made than the manga and/or the 2011 anime. And the answer is a simple yes. HxH 1999 improved everything in the manga and made a way better story out of it.

Second, it doesn't have some really nice direction. It has a amazing direction. And it doesn't has some pretty animation, it has a pretty dam good animation. And unfortunately it was made in 1997 and not now with the improved techniques and a bigger focus to sakuga.
I agree with you on the 12-24 episode thing almost completely, but your opinion on the 1999 series of HXH is subjective. I for one do not believe that changing characterization in a series really makes it "better". Though for the sake of argument, lets say that it did, isn't that a fallacy of an adapation? I mean if for example, your favorite manga got an anime, and then when the anime premiered the characters acted way differently than in the manga that you've gotten used to and love, wouldn't you on some level be a bit disappointed? That's how I feel toward 1999 HXH. It mishandled the the characters and made what was unique very generic and shallow. While I admit I used to hate on 1999 wholesale, I will give it credit that it had much more inspired direction, somewhat better music (I love OP 2 for the TV 1999 run), although what it had in that it lacked in artistic consistency. Some episodes looked great while others looked terrible. 2011 had this too, but to a lesser extent. Fair enough that animation techniques have come a long way since then, but still. I can't forgive the missteps that the 1999 anime had with the character development/treatment, so that's why it'll always be the lesser adaption in my opinion. Why should I settle for a show that's sorta like HXH: The manga in some some ways, when I want to watch something that's closer to the original manga I liked? That's not to say I want something that's 1:1 for every frame, because even Gintama which is a pretty faithful adaption made some changes that did enhance the anime adaption, however it seemed to me that the staff of that had a pretty tacit understanding of how the characters and world of the series tick in opposition to HXH's first adaption that sorta just did it's own thing and by doing so killed a lot of the uniqueness that the manga had. So while you enjoyed it more, and that's totally fine, going in a different direction from the source material is cool if you do it right, which 1999 did not. I basically agree with the sentiment that both adaptions had flaws, but at the very least --tonally inconsistent or not, I feel like 2011 was at least a bit more unique.

And the stuff about Nanika and Mr. Gon or whatever aren't really the fault of 2011 as much as it is Togashi. Even if Furuhashi (who has ruined more than one adaption, lbr.) had somehow been contacted to keep directing stuff after yorkshin, he would have had to follow the same outline as the manga, so you can't say 2011 did a bad job with that when all they did was adapt what was given to them. Also why does no one include the OVA's as a part of the 1999 series? Or are you ? If so, I apologize for assuming things, but it feels like people only talk about the TV run which is only a part of that set of HXH episodes, and if we're gonna compare we should compare everything.

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Say it to One Piece and its bad pace.
Maybe my experience watching animes is too small for your almost divine knowledge, but I dare to say that we are better without long animes.
I think short anime are worse, if not exactly the same, but to each their own. I'd go as far as saying anime has no idea how to pace itself anymore.
 

Leoat12

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Naruto anime just ended and people are already forgetting how bad long animes can be? I have nothing to say.
 

ChocoBar9

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I don't think anyone who advocates the 2011 anime should be criticizing the "characterization" of the 1999 anime when it made a big fuck up in the beginning that winded up biting them in the ass in the Chimera Ant arc due to a lack of foresight. I always find that argument so damn hypocritical.
 

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I don't think anyone who advocates the 2011 anime should be criticizing the "characterization" of the 1999 anime when it made a big fuck up in the beginning that winded up biting them in the ass in the Chimera Ant arc due to a lack of foresight. I always find that argument so damn hypocritical.
If this argument is the one I'm thinking of, I'd like to point out that this huge "fuck-up" almost had no bearing on the story until said arc. I'm almost positive that Togashi forgot about that dude until he needed to have some emotional resonance for the Chimera ant arc and figured "Why not". That being said, even if one allows that, it doesn't change the fact that 1999 also fucked up a lot of things so this is more a moot point than an actual argument in it's favor.
 

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I have to concede that one long anime is good though: Space Brothers.
Faithfully adapted the manga and when they got near of the manga they, guess what? Stopped the anime! It should be obvious, but it was amazing for me.
 

ChocoBar9

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2011 had this too, but to a lesser extent.
No it didn't. The 2011 had a lot of poorly animated sequences particularly whenever an episode got outsourced (which was a lot) it was far from consistent animation wise and the scene to scene comparison between the two makes it look embarrassingly low budget
 

Bomber D Rufi

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No it didn't. The 2011 had a lot of poorly animated sequences particularly whenever an episode got outsourced (which was a lot) it was far from consistent animation wise and the scene to scene comparison between the two makes it look embarrassingly low budget
1999 also had some pretty badly drawn episodes that make the highlights of the series stand out only because the really bad episodes were terrible. It's saved by some pretty good storyboarding, which, I'll admit is it's strong point, but there were some embarrassingly badly drawn episodes in there as well as the constantly washed out color scheme made it look 10 years older than it actually was, and as such it's aged really badly.
 

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If this argument is the one I'm thinking of, I'd like to point out that this huge "fuck-up" almost had no bearing on the story until said arc.
Except it doesn't since they changed the entire motivation of a character and by the time thus scene happens it loses the impact which you can't write off as "it doesn't matter" since its a huge turning point for the character itself, that it more significant than complaining about a character's reaction being different from the source of material like its a huge derailment.
I'm almost positive that Togashi forgot about that dude until he needed to have some emotional resonance for the Chimera ant arc and figured "Why not". That being said, even if one allows that, it doesn't change the fact that 1999 also fucked up a lot of things so this is more a moot point than an actual argument in it's favor.
While a lot of people will disagree with you given the nature of the fanbase to believe Togashi can do no wrong that's still not an excuse considering one adaptation was covering material while it was still being updated versus one being up against years worth of completed material so the change makes no sense.
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1999 also had some pretty badly drawn episodes that make the highlights of the series stand out only because the really bad episodes were terrible. It's saved by some pretty good storyboarding, which, I'll admit is it's strong point, but there were some embarrassingly badly drawn episodes in there as well as the constantly washed out color scheme made it look 10 years older than it actually was, and as such it's aged really badly.
I never said it didn't but I'm not sure what logic dictates that a 138 episode TV series had more consistent animation than a 64 episode one.
 

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Except it doesn't since they changed the entire motivation of a character and by the time thus scene happens it loses the impact which you can't write off as "it doesn't matter" since its a huge turning point for the character itself, that it more significant than complaining about a character's reaction being different from the source of material like its a huge derailment.

While a lot of people will disagree with you given the nature of the fanbase to believe Togashi can do no wrong that's still not an excuse considering one adaptation was covering material while it was still being updated versus one being up against years worth of completed material so the change makes no sense.
And honestly? I agree with you. It doesn't change the fact that Kite didn't do diddly for the entire series whether he was introduced in episode one or 99, so making it sound like it was a huge hole for him not to be in the first episode really is an exaggeration. Yes, it was dumb of them to not include him in the beginning, and yes what they did do was pretty dumb, but frreal? If he were to be written out of the series completely in favor of something else, we'd still get a pretty asspull-ish event in the end since again, he did nothing to contribute to the series other than be in the first chapter/episode of 99 for a few minutes.
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Except it doesn't since they changed the entire motivation of a character and by the time thus scene happens it loses the impact which you can't write off as "it doesn't matter" since its a huge turning point for the character itself, that it more significant than complaining about a character's reaction being different from the source of material like its a huge derailment.

While a lot of people will disagree with you given the nature of the fanbase to believe Togashi can do no wrong that's still not an excuse considering one adaptation was covering material while it was still being updated versus one being up against years worth of completed material so the change makes no sense.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I never said it didn't but I'm not sure what logic dictates that a 138 episode TV series had more consistent animation than a 64 episode one.
I'm not sure what a handful of good scenes over a whole lot of bad ones makes for one series to be better than another either, but here we are.
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I have to concede that one long anime is good though: Space Brothers.
Faithfully adapted the manga and when they got near of the manga they, guess what? Stopped the anime! It should be obvious, but it was amazing for me.
I know you may not be talking to me, but I never said long anime were good, I just said short ones are equally as bad because they too have either very rushed pacing or end before anything happens, and then we don't get sequels for years or at all. So i reiterate that 96% of anime nowadays have shit pacing.
 

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I SAID IT BEFORE AND I'M SAYING IT AGAIN. WE DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT THE TERM ADAPTATION MEANS. MOST WESTERN OTAKUS ARE BABIES IN THIS.

A faithful adaptation can suck pretty bad as a loose one, because if you copy too much shit from the source material, but don't put a twist that makes it more enjoyable, it's also a bad adaptation. Hollywood doesn't care about faithful adaptations of any source material, so they HAVE to change something or most of it. If anime studios worked under the same philosophy, we would have some better series with more realized potential(Fuuka, not from Jump, needed to be changed from the beginning). It's good to respect the author's material, but the copy of the source material can be just as bad in adaptation, so you have to take some liberties to make an enjoyable product.

My Hero's today episode, despite being mostly recap, presented Gran Torino early, and it's a good decision. If out of respect for Horikoshi they copied the manga, Torino's appearance would be like "This guy appeared outta nowhere". In fact, I want to see some additions to this sports arc, given that in the manga is too short.

EDIT>Also, I'm worried about Vento Aureo animated. Unfortunately it will be a faithful adaptation, which means we're gonna see that asspull moment, and the bullshit that is "IT JUST WORKS". With changes in narrative, we could comprehend the storyline, the unexplainable powers and other things that Araki made that are just vague, but alas, it won't be the case, so I don't care much about Vento Aureo.

Now if you hate me for saying this, do it, but it's the damn truth I'm leaving every day, and it's buggin me a lot.
 
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Bomber D Rufi

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I SAID IT BEFORE AND I'M SAYING IT AGAIN. WE DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND WHAT THE TERM ADAPTATION MEANS. MOST WESTERN OTAKUS ARE BABIES IN THIS.

A faithful adaptation can suck pretty bad as a loose one, because if you copy too much shit from the source material, but don't put a twist that makes it more enjoyable, it's also a bad adaptation. Hollywood doesn't care about faithful adaptations of any source material, so they HAVE to change something or most of it. If anime studios worked under the same philosophy, we would have some better series with more realized potential(Fuuka, not from Jump, needed to be changed from the beginning). It's good to respect the author's material, but the copy of the source material can be just as bad in adaptation, so you have to take some liberties to make an enjoyable product.

My Hero's today episode, despite being mostly recap, presented Gran Torino early, and it's a good decision. If out of respect for Horikoshi they copied the manga, Torino's appearance would be like "This guy appeared outta nowhere". In fact, I want to see some additions to this sports arc, given that in the manga is too short.

Now if you hate me for saying this, do it, but it's the damn truth I'm leaving every day, and it's buggin me a lot.
The problem with this is you change one thing, and that leads to changing another thing, and then another, and then another and then it essentially isn't the same product anymore --it's just something that happens to share the same name with the original project. Now am I saying things need to be same all the way around? No, I agree there needs to be some changes, but I really don't think Hollywood is the example we really want to follow. I'll say my example in a previous post again. If there is a game/movie/book/manga/comic you like and they announce an adaption for it, and leading up to that adaption's release everything is looking exactly like the original, and then once it's released it's totally different, are you really telling me you'd be happy with that product that only has maybe flimsy similarities to the original story? No one when seeing that their favorite thing is getting adapted into a different form of media thinks to themselves "Hey I hope they totally remove everything I liked about the original!" Hollywood is known for taking too many liberties in adapting things which is why they're generally reviled in many ways. Making a small change like having one character appear in a different place but still fulfill the same role is fine, but changing character personalities and shirking off parts of the plot stops being an adaption and starts to become a totally different story. Which, hey, if that's what the staff wants, they should announce that from the start --"This is a different story from the original, so keep that in mind" so people know what to expect, rather than dropping that bomb when they're already hyped.
 
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Leoat12

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Fuuka death (I think it is not spoiler anymore, right?) was the best thing that happened in the series, so the anime was pretty bad in this regard. It was like making Death Note anime without killing L, it changes everything! Fuuka will never have a sequel at all because they changed the core of the story with this change, so it is bad news. Making changes on its own accord is dangerous because you never know what the author is planning ahead.
 
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