Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

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Leoat12

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Did they announce the release dates for the DVD/BDs? They usually list all of them at once with the content of each one, giving a good grasp of how many episodes there is.
 

Tamil

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2 cour would be much better. I didn't like that MHA got 1 cour for it's first season too and I hope that doesn't become a trend. I think it's a placeholder.
 

Sir Isley

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Unpopular opinion time.

Black Clover handles it's women better than both Naruto and My Hero Academia.
 

Leoat12

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It doesn't really matter in Jump, girls are not the focal point in battle shounen.
 

Nakura

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Black Clover handles it's women better than both Naruto and My Hero Academia.
Can you explain why? I'm not arguing against you, I'm just curious as to why you think so.
 

Tamil

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Not the focal point unless it's part 6/Stone Ocean. Now that has some of the best females.
 

ChocoBar9

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Unpopular opinion time.

Black Clover handles it's women better than both Naruto and My Hero Academia.
That would be an unpopular opinion because no one in their right mind would come to that conclusion mainly because in BC if you're not Asta you're either worthless, a non-entity, or a love interest.

It doesn't really matter in Jump, girls are not the focal point in battle shounen.
Smartest thing I've heard all day. It feels like people don't seems to know the difference between a good female character and an active one its easy to insert a female character into a battle and have her participate but then what? Does that actively make her a better character as a result or are you just satisfied she gets to do something? Same thing with male characters. Fairy Tail had female character participate in battles all the time but they were still poorly written hell one of the main characters is helmed as the strongest one in the manga yet she's a terrible character and all her battles are poorly done consisting of asspull after asspull with the only explanation given is that "she's Erza" but I'm guessing she constitutes as the "strong female character" in the eyes of many. Then there's Rukia who a lot of people like as a character due to her personality and compelling backstory but her actual accomplishments in the story is minimal hell she was actually a damsel in distress needing to be saved at one point which was essentially the most development she gained in the entire manga then gets pushed to the backseat to only take out the weakest enemies and then job immediately when a stronger one surfaces and despite being the main heroine doesn't even participate in the final battle yet people love her to death in spite of her not being this badass who participates in every battle to show how strong girls can be. In the end I don't take how female characters are treated in consideration of shounen manga I mean one of the best shounen manga HxH doesn't even have a female lead or even an abundant of female presence the ones showcased are strong but they're not really important.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
There's no way Black Clover will be any less than 2 cours. This is Pierrot and a WSJ manga we're talking about here.
Then again Eldive was 13 episodes
--- Double Post Merged, ---
Tabata commented on the anime Yami vs. Licht fight. There's no way it's only 13 episodes.
Well this is Pierrot and as Tokyo Ghoul, Twin Star Exorcist and Kingdom fans can tell you they are known for skipping material in their adaptations
 

Leoat12

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People tends to treat female characters as if they are a special kind of character in battle shounen and go on and on about their representativeness in shounen manga, we already discussed it here many times. Mangas here, specially here I should say, don't have to have a greatly participative (participative = good, it seems) female character for the series to be considered a manga that handles female characters well. Like any other character, they have to be good characters when they are in the spotlight. Battle Shounen, particularly, have almost all of them, male protagonists for obvious reasons, they are the ones that must be participative, the rest of the characters, male or female, will have less screen time, there is no question about that. When they have the spotlight, however, they have to be well developed, I think that My Hero Academia does this well, for example, Uraraka x Bakugo battle is still the best battle I read in the series so far. Shokugeki no Soma also has good examples, I think that Megumi is a good female character, Erina as well, although a bit below and others. They are not the focal point, but when they are in the spotlight the plot is well constructed, therefore I'm satisfied.
 

Sir Isley

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Can you explain why? I'm not arguing against you, I'm just curious as to why you think so.
Creator for Naruto can't write decent women to save his life. In MHA, he can write decent women except the issue is, they get limited panel time. When they do get panel time, there's no progression of their character(yet), Ochako is still stuck on her crush for Deku, and poor Mina is never gonna be doing anything it seems.

With BC's Noelle, she has her crush on Asta however, it doesn't stop her in her tracks during something important, she has or had bigger issues than just that.

That would be an unpopular opinion because no one in their right mind would come to that conclusion mainly because in BC if you're not Asta you're either worthless, a non-entity, or a love interest.
I don't know what series you've read or what memory file you deleted since I can clearly recall otherwise.
 

ChocoBar9

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When they do get panel time, there's no progression of their character(yet), Ochako is still stuck on her crush for Deku, and poor Mina is never gonna be doing anything it seems.
She literally brought up the issue and resolved it in the same arc also Mina got some development in the recent arc during the Red Riot chapters.
With BC's Noelle, she has her crush on Asta however, it doesn't stop her in her tracks during something important, she has or had bigger issues than just that.
I don't know what series you've read or what memory file you deleted since I can clearly recall otherwise.
See? That right there. You didn't even bother to explain what made her good just that she has issues going on with her. Who cares especially when they're not even a focal point of the manga thus far . And last time I check BC had more female characters in the roster.
 

xAsum0x

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The only reason the heroes could find the League of Villians hideout was because Momo thought up on the spot a plan to put a tracker on the Noumu (and doing stuff like that was her main weakness, showcasing her development). Don't understand how you can look at that alone and say Black Clover has done a better job with its female cast. The females aren't just there to be there lol
 

TM2

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Out of all the female character's in Black Clover I still think Noelle is the most well developed. Though she may shine the brightest because most of the other women in the series are still fairly one-note. The Knight-Captain whatshername and her lackey are particular clunkers of flat characterization.

Personal opinion here. On the subject of limited panel time for the female characters of MHA that may be a inherent issue of having many characters. Though given what we got so far I honestly think describing them as just decent is a bit of an understatement. I still remember Deku's mother and her interactions with her son and All Might. Ochako pretty much put her crush aside for the sake of becoming a hero and her fight against Bakugou and her relationship with her family honestly made me tear up. Heck Ochako is the reason Deku even is in UA right now. Mina saved her classmates and helped defined Kirishima. Even All Might's teacher inspired the story's "Symbol of Peace" to smile in the face of adversity.

These are just a couple example but just calling these characters decent because of a lack of screentime is not something I agree with.
 

Sir Isley

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She literally brought up the issue and resolved it in the same arc also Mina got some development in the recent arc during the Red Riot chapters.


See? That right there. You didn't even bother to explain what made her good just that she has issues going on with her. Who cares especially when they're not even a focal point of the manga thus far . And last time I check BC had more female characters in the roster.
1. On Mina, I wouldn't call that anything major.

2. Noelle's inability to control her power due to family problems WAS a focal point.

Personal opinion here. On the subject of limited panel time for the female characters of MHA that may be a inherent issue of having many characters. Though given what we got so far I honestly think describing them as just decent is a bit of an understatement. I still remember Deku's mother and her interactions with her son and All Might. Ochako pretty much put her crush aside for the sake of becoming a hero and her fight against Bakugou and her relationship with her family honestly made me tear up. Heck Ochako is the reason Deku even is in UA right now. Mina saved her classmates and helped defined Kirishima. Even All Might's teacher inspired the story's "Symbol of Peace" to smile in the face of adversity.

These are just a couple example but just calling these characters decent because of a lack of screentime is not something I agree with.
I like this. I'm likely bias due to being a major Claymore fan.
 

xAsum0x

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1. On Mina, I wouldn't call that anything major.

2. Noelle's inability to control her power due to family problems WAS a focal point.



I like this. I'm likely bias due to being a major Claymore fan.
So it's only a major thing when you consider it one? You accuse them of lack of screen time and when she saves 2 students from being killed and helps aide Kirishimas development it's not a major thing?
 

ChocoBar9

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Out of all the female character's in Black Clover I still think Noelle is the most well developed. Though she may shine the brightest because most of the other women in the series are still fairly one-note. The Knight-Captain whatshername and her lackey are particular clunkers of flat characterization.

Personal opinion here. On the subject of limited panel time for the female characters of MHA that may be a inherent issue of having many characters. Though given what we got so far I honestly think describing them as just decent is a bit of an understatement. I still remember Deku's mother and her interactions with her son and All Might. Ochako pretty much put her crush aside for the sake of becoming a hero and her fight against Bakugou and her relationship with her family honestly made me tear up. Heck Ochako is the reason Deku even is in UA right now. Mina saved her classmates and helped defined Kirishima. Even All Might's teacher inspired the story's "Symbol of Peace" to smile in the face of adversity.

These are just a couple example but just calling these characters decent because of a lack of screentime is not something I agree with.
Yeah Hori tends to rush a lot of things and outright skip panel time for the cast which the anime seems to be picking up the slack on his end so it has nothing to do with the characters being female just him not being able to get everything he wants done in an arc which he seems to acknowledge given the focus on the extended cast this arc. I know a lot of people are worried that Ochako and Tsuyu's fight this arc will be skipped given Hori's nasty habbit but I don't find it a determent if we don't see it since that's not the focal point of this arc.
 

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Erza's popularity comes from being strong and cute, as well as men cowering in fear of her. But her fights are terrible and require plotbending to win which is why I mainly dislike her and her character. Ultear is FT's best female character, just not much wrong with her in my eyes so I can't say at all the females are all poorly written. Rukia is a clear example of a character being built up to be great and enticing personality but just castes in the shadows when it comes to major moments, I thought the critcism was overblown that she barely did shit in the final arc but it was accurate. It's sad to see but Ochako is teetering towards Sakura territory, she took care of her crush of Deku but she and the girl group haven't even gotten any screentime since they split up and when I mean screentime not 2 chapters. I like her character but she's already fallen behind Tsuyu, Momo, even Toga big time to me.

I dig MHA's girls though. Mina just got some character development so hopefully we see her involved in the next arc before it fades in the back of our minds. It's so many factors that go into being a good character which hits even harder for heroines being things aren't geared towards them. Do you get screentime when major story plot lines are happening? Do you develop every arc? What's your backstory and how does it define you in the present? Are you more than just being a love interest?
 

ChocoBar9

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1. On Mina, I wouldn't call that anything major.

2. Noelle's inability to control her power due to family problems WAS a focal point.
All while bringing up Noelle's issues as if its a major aspect of the plot.
 

Sir Isley

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So it's only a major thing when you consider it one? You accuse them of lack of screen time and when she saves 2 students from being killed and helps aide Kirishimas development it's not a major thing?
I honestly can't remember that. I'd like for her to get some development not aide someone else.
 

ChocoBar9

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Erza's popularity comes from being strong and cute, as well as men cowering in fear of her. But her fights are terrible and require plotbending to win which is why I mainly dislike her and her character. Ultear is FT's best female character, just not much wrong with her in my eyes so I can't say at all the females are all poorly written. Rukia is a clear example of a character being built up to be great and enticing personality but just castes in the shadows when it comes to major moments, I thought the critcism was overblown that she barely did shit in the final arc but it was accurate. It's sad to see but Ochako is teetering towards Sakura territory, she took care of her crush of Deku but she and the girl group haven't even gotten any screentime since they split up and when I mean screentime not 2 chapters. I like her character but she's already fallen behind Tsuyu, Momo, even Toga big time to me.
Kishimoto didn't even know what the hell to do with Sakura since even after her big character moment she stagnated and didn't really do anything afterwards until the timeskip where the forgone conclusion was to make her have super strength and be a medic but her character regressed eve further down the pipe drain thanks to her infatuation with Sasuke and didn't really improve as a result. I don't think Ochako is anywhere near close to that territory but its been nothing but set up since her fight with Bakugou with her improving herself and gaining her own adversary, Toga, in the process now all that's left is to see where it goes.
 

shoyoboyo

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Female characters in shounen manga are just difficult to handle. In battle shounen, a lot of development happens during the fights, but since females rarely fight, they hardly get any development. There's also the whole deal with boys can't hit girls for some reason which pretty much limits most of the villains to being male. Toga so far is the only female villain and she hasn't even had any conflict yet.
 
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