Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[TotalEconomist]

Soma's editor changed again by the way.

Spoiler: author comments

Editor info from 4chan (from a translator of the SnS manga scans)

Oh boy, I can't wait to see which direction the series takes with it's third editor.

And for the record, the Souma chapter ranking is 229, a setup chapter. The most interesting was the Shinomiya reveal at the end.

 

[iceemperor]

This new EiC trying to start a war. Stuff is all over the place.

I'd say its an attempt to revitalize the magazine. Nakano did say he wants to increase the printing of the paper magazine even though digital subscriptions are increasing. The new series are at points where everything is still "fresh" and probably fast paced as well. The Deputy EiC must also have been given some kind of instruction regarding the TOC. While they say the questionnaire results decide everything, no business is going to leave everything to the feelings of readers. A feeling of potential of series has to definitely play a part in keeping series like Seishun which barely sells but does well in the questionnaire results in some demographic, good enough to stay serialized when Marie was cancelled despite selling double the amount.

Heroaca also honestly needs this kick to get back on track. Actual plot points aside the overuse and misplacement of flashbacks, is killing the enjoyment. Horikoshi used to keep his flashbacks to a minimum and now we have one almost every other chapter. The Kirishima chapters completely broke the flow of the final blow and now Eri's flashback also almost breaks the flow. It could have been put after the fact with a few panels maximum to show what is happening and then just show the result. This really makes the rough edges of the manga stand out. I honestly have no idea what Monji is doing okaying all these breaks of flow and excitement. It honestly looks like he'll let anything through. Horikoshi said he helps structure the plot as well but looking at this arc, we have to wonder whether he's actually filtering out ideas or just going along with everything Horikoshi wants to do instead of making sure the overall plot and quirks are being used to their fullest. This arc really brought down Heroaca's chances of being No. 2 in the ranking after OP. With 5 issues left in this circulation year, it needs consistent 1st and 2nd places to get up to the top 5.

Soma, I won't really say anything other than that its new editor has a huge task ahead of him to completely bring the series back on track.

 

[Leoat12]

Supposing that the readers' opinion is losing its values, we cannot say what have to be back on track or not if all rankings are editors' whims. I don't think it is the best way to promote the magazine, putting the will of the editors and a minority over the majority, saving hopeless series in the process.

 

[ChocoBar9]

I call bullshit on Bokuben's ranking because those types of series are well-known to not do good in the rankings. That was a thing with To Love Ru getting low rankings because the readers were to embarrassed to make it known that they were reading that sort of manga so it was always put in the lower position. Nisekoi was also a low to mid ranker through its run until the final stretch had it in he bottom five.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 18, 2017 ---

Heroaca also honestly needs this kick to get back on track. Actual plot points aside the overuse and misplacement of flashbacks, is killing the enjoyment. Horikoshi used to keep his flashbacks to a minimum and now we have one almost every other chapter. The Kirishima chapters completely broke the flow of the final blow and now Eri's flashback also almost breaks the flow. It could have been put after the fact with a few panels maximum to show what is happening and then just show the result. This really makes the rough edges of the manga stand out. I honestly have no idea what Monji is doing okaying all these breaks of flow and excitement. It honestly looks like he'll let anything through. Horikoshi said he helps structure the plot as well but looking at this arc, we have to wonder whether he's actually filtering out ideas or just going along with everything Horikoshi wants to do instead of making sure the overall plot and quirks are being used to their fullest. This arc really brought down Heroaca's chances of being No. 2 in the ranking after OP. With 5 issues left in this circulation year, it needs consistent 1st and 2nd places to get up to the top 5..

You see its really hard to use the ToC as a measurement of quality because there's never any underling consistency towards it especially with the case of One Piece and to a lesser extent Black Clover where a bad chapter will still reach the top of the TOC just due to the status of the series in question, this was also a similar case with Naruto where it always ranked high despite how bad it got. Can anyone say that chapter 151 was worse than everything abve it barring One Piece? If anycase next week will confirm if my theory is correct or not in regards to what's been going on with the ToC because the chapter in question trended on twitter.

 

[UnspokenCoconut]

I call bullshit on Bokuben's ranking because those types of series are well-known to not do good in the rankings.

I"s says hi.

That was a thing with To Love Ru getting low rankings because the readers were to embarrassed to make it known that they were reading that sort of manga so it was always put in the lower position. Nisekoi was also a low to mid ranker through its run until the final stretch had it in he bottom five.

Please stop quoting Bakuman and present it as a fact.

 

[ChocoBar9]

I"s says hi.

http://pharaodopazoplus.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_12.html
That was a frequent bottom dweller as well. Was also absent a considerable amount.

Please stop quoting Bakuman and present it as a fact.

That was a thing before Bakuman even brought it up.

 

[Akia999]

Oh boy, I can't wait to see which direction the series takes with it's third editor.

And for the record, the Souma chapter ranking is 229, a setup chapter. The most interesting was the Shinomiya reveal at the end.

Hopefully this new editor can at least help the author make a coherent plot...
The TOC ranking is either 7 or 8 chapters behind.
I think it's more likely to be the ranking for chapter 228. The one where the E.10, best chefs in the schools were hit with sudden fatigue...

 

[UnspokenCoconut]

http://pharaodopazoplus.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_12.html
That was a frequent bottom dweller as well. Was also absent a considerable amount.

Check the early ranking of I"s (1997 and 1998) and you'll see what I'm talking about.

That was a thing before Bakuman even brought it up.

Care to give a link to support such claim?

 

[SharkBait]

I call bullshit on Bokuben's ranking because those types of series are well-known to not do good in the rankings. That was a thing with To Love Ru getting low rankings because the readers were to embarrassed to make it known that they were reading that sort of manga so it was always put in the lower position. Nisekoi was also a low to mid ranker through its run until the final stretch had it in he bottom five.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 18, 2017 ---

You see its really hard to use the ToC as a measurement of quality because there's never any underling consistency towards it especially with the case of One Piece and to a lesser extent Black Clover where a bad chapter will still reach the top of the TOC just due to the status of the series in question, this was also a similar case with Naruto where it always ranked high despite how bad it got. Can anyone say that chapter 151 was worse than everything abve it barring One Piece? If anycase next week will confirm if my theory is correct or not in regards to what's been going on with the ToC because the chapter in question trended on twitter.

Just because you and or a vocal minority thought it was "bad" doesnt mean everyone else thought it was "bad".

 

[shoyoboyo]

I don't think the TOC has ever been a measure of quality, but more of a measure of popularity, and an unreliable one at that. I assure you that Black Clover would have been axed in 12 chapters if quality was their main criteria for axing manga. It's only sticking around because it sells decently well (although it should be selling a lot more considering all the pushing it's getting) and Jump probably hopes the anime will make it blow up in popularity. Even Pierrot expects Black Clover to be the "new Naruto".

All of these problems with the TOC would be solved if they released to the public how many votes each manga got. Obviously it won't happen because there would be major backlash from the community. Cue the "why was X axed when it got way more votes than Y" and "the editorial department is retarded" comments. Until we get some results, all we can do is assume that a manga is getting pushed (Clover) or that another doesn't sell well but is popular on the polls (Zumou). They don't even have to release them weekly, they can do it monthly or quarterly. They can keep placing the ToC the way they always do, just give us some damn results.

 

[De La Croissant]

Kimetsu had 26,105 votes in the popularity poll.

Wow! Boku no Hero only had 11k.

 

[ChocoBar9]

Check the early ranking of I"s (1997 and 1998) and you'll see what I'm talking about.

http://www.biwa.ne.jp/~starman/1997/1997jump.htm
Not pure rankings and it doesn't differentiate between cover and color pages outside the debut but it didn't start out as strong as you're exaggerating and it got worse from then on in 1998, 1999 and 200.

Care to give a link to support such claim?

http://pharaodopazoplus.blogspot.com/p/weekly-shonen-jump-pure-rankings-2008.html
Its not exactly hidden that TLR had bad ranking throughout its run. The Bakuman gag came after the distinction.[/quote][/QUOTE]

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 18, 2017 ---

Just because you and or a vocal minority thought it was "bad" doesnt mean everyone else thought it was "bad".

Even people who liked BC hated those chapters. If anything you're in the minority for blindly defending it so much.

 

[xAsum0x]

I'd say its an attempt to revitalize the magazine. Nakano did say he wants to increase the printing of the paper magazine even though digital subscriptions are increasing. The new series are at points where everything is still "fresh" and probably fast paced as well. The Deputy EiC must also have been given some kind of instruction regarding the TOC. While they say the questionnaire results decide everything, no business is going to leave everything to the feelings of readers. A feeling of potential of series has to definitely play a part in keeping series like Seishun which barely sells but does well in the questionnaire results in some demographic, good enough to stay serialized when Marie was cancelled despite selling double the amount.

Heroaca also honestly needs this kick to get back on track. Actual plot points aside the overuse and misplacement of flashbacks, is killing the enjoyment. Horikoshi used to keep his flashbacks to a minimum and now we have one almost every other chapter. The Kirishima chapters completely broke the flow of the final blow and now Eri's flashback also almost breaks the flow. It could have been put after the fact with a few panels maximum to show what is happening and then just show the result. This really makes the rough edges of the manga stand out. I honestly have no idea what Monji is doing okaying all these breaks of flow and excitement. It honestly looks like he'll let anything through. Horikoshi said he helps structure the plot as well but looking at this arc, we have to wonder whether he's actually filtering out ideas or just going along with everything Horikoshi wants to do instead of making sure the overall plot and quirks are being used to their fullest. This arc really brought down Heroaca's chances of being No. 2 in the ranking after OP. With 5 issues left in this circulation year, it needs consistent 1st and 2nd places to get up to the top 5.

Soma, I won't really say anything other than that its new editor has a huge task ahead of him to completely bring the series back on track.

The current Academia arc was doing relatively well until the Kirishima chapters. And he's not an unpopular character so.

 

[ChocoBar9]

It don't matter. None of this matters.

 

[De La Croissant]

The current Academia arc was doing relatively well until the Kirishima chapters. And he's not an unpopular character so.

Right? Most of the current arc was in the top positions, when the climax began, the series fell.

 

[UnspokenCoconut]

http://www.biwa.ne.jp/~starman/1997/1997jump.htm
Not pure rankings and it doesn't differentiate between cover and color pages outside the debut but it didn't start out as strong as you're exaggerating and it got worse from then on in 1998, 1999 and 200.

Weekly Shonen Jump #32, 1997
Joker (Cover, Lead CP, New Series)
I"s (Chapter 13)
Sexy Commando Gaiden
Meteor Strike (CP, One-Shot)
Hoshin Engi
Hanasaka Tenshi Tenten-kun
Hareluya II Boy
Wild Half
Kochikame (CP)
Hell Teacher Nube
Midori no Makibao
Wrestling with Momoko
JoJo
Majokko Vivian
Yu-Gi-Oh!
Makuhari
Majima-kun Suttobasu!!
Captain Tsubasa
Merry Wind (END)

Absent:
Bastard!
Rurouni Kenshin

TOC Page:

Spoiler

 

[ChocoBar9]

The current Academia arc was doing relatively well until the Kirishima chapters. And he's not an unpopular character so.

Right? Most of the current arc was in the top positions, when the climax began, the series fell.

People always forget that. If they hated this arc it would have done badly from the beginning. If that unfinished chapter can rank in the top five but a 13 page chapter can drop to twelfth place I don't know what to say. Everything was fine until the 40th issue where everything went out of wack.

 

[De La Croissant]

I'll wait for the infamous Mirio chapter to see if I understand what's going on.

 

[ChocoBar9]

Weekly Shonen Jump #34, 1997
Joker (Cover, Lead CP, New Series)
I"s (Chapter 13)
Sexy Commando Gaiden
Meteor Strike (CP, One-Shot)
Hoshin Engi
Hanasaka Tenshi Tenten-kun
Hareluya II Boy
Wild Half
Kochikame (CP)
Hell Teacher Nube
Midori no Makibao
Wrestling with Momoko
JoJo
Majokko Vivian
Yu-Gi-Oh!
Makuhari
Majima-kun Suttobasu!!
Captain Tsubasa
Merry Wind (END)

Absent:
Bastard!
Rurouni Kenshin

Spoiler

That's that 13th chapter. And you're still ignoring 1998, 1999 and 2000.

Spoiler

Considering I's did worse than Ichigo 100% in its first 30 chapters I don't know why you're pushing this notion that it was an exception to the rule anyways.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 18, 2017 ---

Kimetsu had 26,105 votes in the popularity poll.

Wow! Boku no Hero only had 11k.

Was Kimetsu's poll based on postcards or some other method? I know World Trigger's had a different method that was discontinued due to spamming and Souma's second poll was online only.

 

[De La Croissant]

Was Kimetsu's poll based on postcards or some other method? I know World Trigger's had a different method that was discontinued due to spamming and Souma's second poll was online only.

No idea, but I remember being surprised when I saw that AssClass had received 10k and WT almost 80k.