Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[De La Croissant]

I think people just want something familiar, Oda's comment seems like BLack Clover would have never passed the editors roundtable.

Well, BC wanted to be generic and cliche when everyone was trying to be different. That's crazy enough. XD

 

[ChocoBar9]

Oda's advice is on how to definitely sell a lot. The editors are more concerned with series that have selling potential and is interesting. As long as the series meets these requirements then they'll probably serialize any series. Demon's Plan is a good example that probably met thee requirements, though the readers didn't think so. Kimetsu no Yaiba is a good example of Oda's advice. That's something that probably only Gotouge can write and its steadily growing in sales as well. I'm of the opinion that BC is too tame. Had Tabata been much more ambitious in his story in the beginning then the series would have definitely sold more at the beginning rather than waiting for an anime to boost you up. Its template like structure is almost the perfect environment to try all kinds of crazy developments but for the most part, it stuck to standard events. This is enough to get that "This is pretty interesting" response but its not enough in the current industry. As it is right now, BC is losing to "Regarding being reincarnated as a Slime", a Narou born LN and later manga adaptation in sales.

To be fair that was also rejected by readers initially and needed a push from Togashi to get more people interested. Its increase in sales and rankings is thanks to the push but it also has critical reception to back it up unlike BC which just seems to be cuddled by editors leaving its growth potential stilted beyond its own niche.

 

[iceemperor]

To be fair that was also rejected by readers initially and needed a push from Togashi to get more people interested. Its increase in sales and rankings is thanks to the push but it also has critical reception to back it up unlike BC which just seems to be cuddled by editors leaving its growth potential stilted beyond its own niche.

I honestly don't believe Togashi endorsing it gave it much of a push at all. Kubo also endorsed Sumou yet nothing came out of that so a mangaka endorsing a series doesn't have much of an effect. This can also be seen with Hyde, lead singer of L'arc en ciel, a giant in the japanese music industry who performed at Madison Square Garden a few years back and is definitely more famous than Togashi, also endorsed Harekon yet that didn't get much growth. I honestly believe that its growth is due entirely to Gotouge's own skill. Being in Jump already gives you a huge amount of publicity due to the huge amount of people that read it each week. Gotouge was able to capture people with her skill and storytelling and its now blossoming. Many people I've seen on Japanese twitter and 5ch don't really know/care about Togashi's endorsement. Oda is probably the only mangaka that might have some pushing power and even then, his jealousy of Shigatsu was broadcast on TV rather than on an obi or magazine. There's no telling of how it would have done had it been written on the wraparound of a Shigatsu volume instead.

 

[shoyoboyo]

Kubo also endorsed Sumou yet nothing came out of that so a mangaka endorsing a series doesn't have much of an effect.

That might also be because people may value Togashi's opinion more than Kubo's (for obvious reasons). I agree with what you're saying though.

 

[Tamil]

It looks like Oda gave RING a shoutout and it still flopped so I agree that Togashi didnt give it as much as a boost as we expected. The sales were also growing slowly prior to that.

Spoiler

I still think Togashi's shoutout had a boost but not to the extent that we make it out to be. The spider family arc is what probably what made up bulk of the boost.

 

[Tanzo]

 

[Silverblade]

│*25967 (6)│------│------│------│------┃*,*25,967 (**6)┃2016/10｜Kimetsu no Yaiba 3
│*21815 (3)│------│------│------│------┃*,*21,815 (**3)┃2016/12｜Kimetsu no Yaiba 4
│*41476 (3)│*65822│------│------│------┃*,*65,822 (*10)┃2017/03｜Kimetsu no Yaiba 5

Volume 4 which came with Togashi's quote on the obi, sold on par with volume 3. Kimetsu no Yaiba sales started growing from volume 5 on which was the climax of the Spider Family arc. Gotouge earned this herself.

 

[cody]

I guess this is my first post here.

I don't really like the new series from the recent startup.

Golem Hearts just feels like another one of those many attempts to start up a new battle shounen from Jump, you know, in a similar scenario to stuff like U19, Ibitsu no Amalgam, Demon's Plan, Red Sprite, Takuan to Batsu no Nichijou Enmachou, etc. I wanted to say lower effort attempts, but I know most of the mangaka that are doing/did these series are rookies and that they are trying their best, but they simply don't have what it takes to have a running action manga in WSJ, at least not yet. Art is pretty decent for Golem Hearts, as a positive, but I'm not a huge fan of the style. It does have chances of surviving though, let's see what happens, I'll definitely follow its progress and I am willing to revisit it if it manages to survives.

Full Drive also has decent art, but it also feels like it lacks something to really make it stand out enough amongst the other sports series running in the magazine right now. It didn't really leave an impression on me so far, but I'm willing to revisit it in the future if it survives.

And I haven't read the Tomato Dog thing, so I can't really say much about it.

I really like the current state of the magazine right now, I'm loving Kimetsu no Yaiba, BNHA, Dr. Stone, Yuuna, OP(a little bit behind on it), HxH whenever it comes around, Hinomaru Zumo, Yakusoku no Neverland. Other series from the magazine that I only follow in anime form for now are Gintama, Food Wars(I've only seen season 1) and Haikyu, I really enjoy watching all of them, it is a goal of mine to get read their manga as well. I also liked what I read of Robot x Laserbeam, but I need to read more of it to really get a good idea of how much I really like it. I want to get into Saiki eventually, I guess the anime would be the easiest path. The first chapter of Shoodan was great, but I decided not to get into that one so I don't become disappointed if it gets axed. I don't like BC and I'm not a fan of Bokuben either. World Trigger seems to be dead, never tried that one out and I don't care about Boruto in the slightest.

For the most part, the magazine really resonates with my tastes right now, I like how fresh things are. How do you guys feel about the current state of the magazine?

 

[ChocoBar9]

I honestly don't believe Togashi endorsing it gave it much of a push at all. Kubo also endorsed Sumou yet nothing came out of that so a mangaka endorsing a series doesn't have much of an effect. This can also be seen with Hyde, lead singer of L'arc en ciel, a giant in the japanese music industry who performed at Madison Square Garden a few years back and is definitely more famous than Togashi, also endorsed Harekon yet that didn't get much growth. I honestly believe that its growth is due entirely to Gotouge's own skill. Being in Jump already gives you a huge amount of publicity due to the huge amount of people that read it each week. Gotouge was able to capture people with her skill and storytelling and its now blossoming. Many people I've seen on Japanese twitter and 5ch don't really know/care about Togashi's endorsement. Oda is probably the only mangaka that might have some pushing power and even then, his jealousy of Shigatsu was broadcast on TV rather than on an obi or magazine. There's no telling of how it would have done had it been written on the wraparound of a Shigatsu volume instead.

I always believe that good word helps a lot for series with a niche following that's what helped KnY a lot up to this point. Very rarely do series who start in the bottom five rise up outside of it unless they're high sellers and KnY also didn't have the sales to keep it alive until recently. Word of mouth can only go as far if the series is good enough for attention and that's essentially what came about with it even if it wasn't an immediate hit with Jump readers when it first started. So was Gotouge skill what ultimately led to KnY success? Definitely but a word or two from Togashi probably helped a bit especially around manga circles that generally don't keep up with Jump series.

 

[cody]

I think Kimetsu's rise to success was helped by the shoutout it got at the start from Togashi, but in the end Gotouge herself really made the series take off with how distinctive and good it was and then it seems like it quickly became more popular through word of mouth.

 

[ChocoBar9]

│*25967 (6)│------│------│------│------┃*,*25,967 (**6)┃2016/10｜Kimetsu no Yaiba 3
│*21815 (3)│------│------│------│------┃*,*21,815 (**3)┃2016/12｜Kimetsu no Yaiba 4
│*41476 (3)│*65822│------│------│------┃*,*65,822 (*10)┃2017/03｜Kimetsu no Yaiba 5

Volume 4 which came with Togashi's quote on the obi, sold on par with volume 3. Kimetsu no Yaiba sales started growing from volume 5 on which was the climax of the Spider Family arc. Gotouge earned this herself.

Funnily enough that arc also didn't rank well either though it did better than the previous ones though worse than the ones that came after. The sales bump must have came about after the word of the mouth got people curious. But its really interesting to see KnY raise was largely due to people reading it and spreading the word of how good it was, no editorial manipulation, no appearances on Ame Talk, just people reading it and recommending it which carried over to the sales. For Zumo I honestly think the reason why the series never really exploded is because sumo wrestling isn't popular with kids or the general public like it was during the Showa era s regardless of quality people were turned off because it was focused on what many believed is a "relic sport" that only old people like.

 

[Tamil]

Any predictions on BC's sales? We should get them at the end of the month. It had around 700k in the half year and I haven't been keeping up with the backlog sales.

 

[Silverblade]

Funnily enough that arc also didn't rank well either. The sales bump must have came about after the word of the mouth got people curious.

As often as this gets ignored in these discussion, the fact that different people read the magazine and the volumes still remains. So there isn't always a direct correlation between the assumed magazine rankings and factual sales. And in this age the word of mouth travels at the speed of your internet connection, so the effect can be seen much faster if not immediately.

KnY also didn't have the sales to keep it alive until recently

It has been gradually growing with every new book volume 5 on for all of 2017 which is already half of its lifespan.

So was Gotouge skill what ultimately led to KnY success? Definitely but a word or two from Togashi probably helped a bit especially around manga circles that generally don't keep up with Jump series.

Huh? Why would someone who doesn't keep up with shonen manga listen to a shonen mangaka opinion? Besides, even with all the growth Kimestsu no Yaiba has shown, it is only growing within the target audience and not outside of it where only the most outstanding bestsellers manage to breach.

 

[xAsum0x]

I guess this is my first post here.

I don't really like the new series from the recent startup.

Golem Hearts just feels like another one of those many attempts to start up a new battle shounen from Jump, you know, in a similar scenario to stuff like U19, Ibitsu no Amalgam, Demon's Plan, Red Sprite, Takuan to Batsu no Nichijou Enmachou, etc. I wanted to say lower effort attempts, but I know most of the mangaka that are doing/did these series are rookies and that they are trying their best, but they simply don't have what it takes to have a running action manga in WSJ, at least not yet. Art is pretty decent for Golem Hearts, as a positive, but I'm not a huge fan of the style. It does have chances of surviving though, let's see what happens, I'll definitely follow its progress and I am willing to revisit it if it manages to survives.

Full Drive also has decent art, but it also feels like it lacks something to really make it stand out enough amongst the other sports series running in the magazine right now. It didn't really leave an impression on me so far, but I'm willing to revisit it in the future if it survives.

And I haven't read the Tomato Dog thing, so I can't really say much about it.

I really like the current state of the magazine right now, I'm loving Kimetsu no Yaiba, BNHA, Dr. Stone, Yuuna, OP(a little bit behind on it), HxH whenever it comes around, Hinomaru Zumo, Yakusoku no Neverland. Other series from the magazine that I only follow in anime form for now are Gintama, Food Wars(I've only seen season 1) and Haikyu, I really enjoy watching all of them, it is a goal of mine to get read their manga as well. I also liked what I read of Robot x Laserbeam, but I need to read more of it to really get a good idea of how much I really like it. I want to get into Saiki eventually, I guess the anime would be the easiest path. The first chapter of Shoodan was great, but I decided not to get into that one so I don't become disappointed if it gets axed. I don't like BC and I'm not a fan of Bokuben either. World Trigger seems to be dead, never tried that one out and I don't care about Boruto in the slightest.

For the most part, the magazine really resonates with my tastes right now, I like how fresh things are. How do you guys feel about the current state of the magazine?

Needs more sports series /s. No but it's pretty diverse with genres and that's pretty cool. Probably still for another big hit to replace more of its flagship series.

 

[De La Croissant]

Togashi is famous enough to be known by those who do not read Shonen Jump.

Anyway, I think it was a combination of both: the author has evolved and Togashi's recommendation has helped new readers to realize this.

 

[ChocoBar9]

As often as this gets ignored in these discussion, the fact that different people read the magazine and the volumes still remains. So there isn't always a direct correlation between the assumed magazine rankings and factual sales. And in this age the word of mouth travels at the speed of your internet connection, so the effect can be seen much faster if not immediately.

But you guys are denying that Togashi's word had nothing to do with the sales jumping and that it was solely just Gotouge getting better. While its easy to believe in people going for quality its naive to think that the push it got didn't at least help a bit.

It has been gradually growing with every new book volume 5 on for all of 2017 which is already half of its lifespan.

Volume 5 was released THIS YEAR meaning it didn't do well before March where it go a significant increase in sales so it didn't do well when it first started.

Huh? Why would someone who doesn't keep up with shonen manga listen to a shonen mangaka opinion? Besides, even with all the growth Kimestsu no Yaiba has shown, it is only growing within the target audience and not outside of it where only the most outstanding bestsellers manage to breach.

I believe I stated JUMP manga not shounen manga. There are people who read manga that aren't Jump books and hate their model of practice. I don't believe that Kimetsu has the sam e audience share as something like Black Clover but more like Gintama I believe it appeals to an older demographic.

 

[Halloween]

Didn't Oda recommend TPN?

When are we going to see the sales boost from that? :P

 

[ChocoBar9]

Didn't Oda recommend TPN?

When are we going to see the sales boost from that? :P

Neverland was already a top seller before Oda said anything, it was also on Ame Talk as well. Given that every single volume of Neverland has done better than the last since it started that it managed to beat BC in less than year the push is very much still in effect we just don't know which helped it more.

 

[Silverblade]

But you guys are denying that Togashi's word had nothing to do with the sales jumping and that it was solely just Gotouge getting better. While its easy to believe in people going for quality its naive to think that the push it got didn't at least help a bit.

If the obi recommendation had this presumed little effect, we would have seen in December 2016, especially since the first week of volume 4 lasted only 3 days. The following three months had enough content in the manga itself to generate attention on its own.

Volume 5 was released THIS YEAR meaning it didn't do well before March where it go a significant increase in sales so it didn't do well when it first started.

I am just pointing out that its weak start was short termed and will become ever shorter with time passing.

I believe I stated JUMP manga not shounen manga. There are people who read manga that aren't Jump books and hate their model of practice. I don't believe that Kimetsu has the sam e audience share as something like Black Clover like Gintama I believe it appeals to an older demographic.

Ah, if you put it that way, I won't argue it branching out to different subsets of the same broad shonen manga reading group. But that doesn't answer why would they pay attention to a Jump mangaka being praised by another Jump mangaka, even, um, unique one like Togashi.

 

[ChocoBar9]

If the obi recommendation had this presumed little effect, we would have seen in December 2016, especially since the first week of volume 4 lasted only 3 days. The following three months had enough content in the manga itself to generate attention on its own.

Who's to say that the effect didn't take until after volume 4 was released? The obi is just to show that "this manga is highly recommended by this very popular and celebrated author so you should read it" come next volume the sales doubled because of the recommendation if the obi had no effect than the numbers would have been the same for volume 5 and there would have been no growth whatsoever. Assume that the majority of people who read KnY only follow it by volume instead of reading it through Jump (honestly this is what most people do regardless given the amount of people who were shocked that Sanji was going to get married as promotion for the 84th volume even though the chapter was serialized months prior in Jump) they see the recommendation obi by Togashi and spread the word so that the next volume would get better sales as a result. Its not really a stretch to say this since Jump did this with Samon by putting on the obi that the director of the highly popular anime series Osomatsu-san liked the work and wanted to make an anime out of it but come next volume the sales remained the same.

I am just pointing out that its weak start was short termed and will become ever shorter with time passing.

Yes its very fortunate that it did get better but also bare in mine that poor performing and ranking Jump series don't last for 4 volumes unless it gets saved by the editors.

Ah, if you put it that way, I won't argue it branching out to different subsets of the same broad shonen manga reading group. But that doesn't answer why would they pay attention to a Jump mangaka being praised by another Jump mangaka, even, um, unique one like Togashi.

Whelp you got me there.I just know that Togashi is relevant in circles not related to Jump or shounen but manga in general and that his name does carry relevance when people bring up quality so if a manga is recommended by him they'll most likely go check it out even if his name doesn't carry the same sort of "mainstream" status like Oda or Akira Toriyama