Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2018] - Discussion and TOC Talk

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Sir Isley

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On the BC topic, I'm fine with actual criticism since I can provide my opinion but here it's the same 3-4 dudes constantly whining as well as talking about a series that they don't care for. I heavily dislike SnK, Bleach, and Boruto so I never talk about them unless asked. How hard is that to do?
 

shoyoboyo

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Anyone checked out Kimetsu 95 yet? Seems the general reception is divided.
 

101nemesis

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But why should it stop? And above all, why should it have already reached its peak?

I can not understand ... the anime is still there, a game is scheduled, the merchandise is already starting ....
90% of series hit their peak and then go down to either stabilizing at a certain number or constantly reducing to lower levels. Even with an ongoing anime or media franchise. It does not matter. Take any well known series (Toriko, Bleach, SnS, Naruto).

Toriko - Hit it's peak in 2012, I think. But ever since then, the sales always went down, 20k-40k every 2-3 volumes despite the anime still being aired and having a movie, a game(the same year as the movie 2015 or 2016, don't quite remember) and being a good merchandise seller for Toei.
Bleach - Hit its peak of 1.26 million per copy but obviously even with the anime on going, the sales stabilized for a bit and then dropped after some time to around 750-800k before the anime ended. After that, we all know it went down even more every few volumes. The initial drop happened despite having movies, merchs, games, pretty much everything a franchise could have.
SnS - It's an ongoing example right now. The anime's next season is gonna air but the sales hit their peak and are now down from said peak.

There are exceptions obviously. But exceptions are usually something spectacular like One Piece or Kingdom or Shingeki No Kyojin or even Gintama. Despite all these years, Gintama has managed to keep a solid stable number for its sales. And aside from that Gintama's franchise just grew outside of manga and anime.

Of course, it doesn't mean BC's sales will go down. It might just stabilize around the current level until readers or viewers feel the quality dropped.
I don't see it increasing anymore until it animates something that makes people go "woah, that was cool" and generates interest among those who haven't read it or seen it yet. That's why MHA's season 2 helped because the initial arcs up until chapter 100 or something were top notch. That's why I say MHA will grow even more with season 3. But after that, if the mangaka doesn't step up his game to the quality of the previous arcs, it will go down.
This isn't rocket science, man. Just patterns and general trends.

On the BC topic, I'm fine with actual criticism since I can provide my opinion but here it's the same 3-4 dudes constantly whining as well as talking about a series that they don't care for. I heavily dislike SnK, Bleach, and Boruto so I never talk about them unless asked. How hard is that to do?
My discussion is about the sales. Not my fault some feel like they need to defend it even though I'm using facts that were presented few pages ago. If this was TPN instead of BC, I'd still be here discussing it because I like to talk about sales in general. People who've seen me comment on MH forums know how I like to talk about sales.
 

ShenGao

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Anyone checked out Kimetsu 95 yet? Seems the general reception is divided.
Looked at the raws, didn't like anything of it, dropped my enjoyment for Kimetsu pretty hard.
 

Tamil

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Anyone checked out Kimetsu 95 yet? Seems the general reception is divided.
This arc started off brilliant and was shaping up to be the best arc but I think the dragged out fight really harmed the arc. It got really ridiculous with the same/similar cliffhanger so I'm praying the anime fixes it up and makes it better. Who knows, maybe if we got a consistent release of chapters then this fight would've flowed a lot better.

I saw the spoiler and didn't really bother me that much. What's the divide about anyway? The recovery? It looks Tanjirou is showing sympathy just because they share a brother/sister relationship? Didn't we see that in the spider family arc? I don't know but I'm glad it's done with.
 
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De La Croissant

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People must be divided if it was an asspull or not.
 

Franz

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90% of series hit their peak and then go down to either stabilizing at a certain number or constantly reducing to lower levels. Even with an ongoing anime or media franchise. It does not matter. Take any well known series (Toriko, Bleach, SnS, Naruto).

Toriko - Hit it's peak in 2012, I think. But ever since then, the sales always went down, 20k-40k every 2-3 volumes despite the anime still being aired and having a movie, a game(the same year as the movie 2015 or 2016, don't quite remember) and being a good merchandise seller for Toei.
Bleach - Hit its peak of 1.26 million per copy but obviously even with the anime on going, the sales stabilized for a bit and then dropped after some time to around 750-800k before the anime ended. After that, we all know it went down even more every few volumes. The initial drop happened despite having movies, merchs, games, pretty much everything a franchise could have.
Wait a minute, Bleach and Toriko are two series lasting eight and sixteen respectively, while Black Clover lasts only three.

I understand your point of view, but you have chosen the wrong paraphernalia.

Bleach remained the third manga for sales of Jump for years before his collapse while Toriko was pushed only by the time the Jump deers a new replacement for Bleach.

Before the collapse, Bleach had a huge merchandasing behind it that lasted several years, how can you say the same thing about Black Clover if the commercialization has only recently started?

Wait at least a few years.

Otherwise it is not even said that Black Clover becomes the new Big, it could also be just a manga that sells well in the magazine.
 

shoyoboyo

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Yeah people were complaining about it being an asspull.
It seems like one side is arguing that Nezuko's healing powers came out of nowhere and basically removed all major consequences from the arc, while the other side argues that her fire ability that only destroys demon cells is being used to destroy the poison (since it came from a demon).
Personally, I only see it as less of an asspull and more of a plot convenience. We'll have to wait and see if there are truly any consequences post arc.
 

cody

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Every battle shounen is a bunch of asspulls or plot conveniences if you think about it, if you want to think of it that way xD. I'm personally enjoying this Kimetsu arc, I do agree that with an eventual anime, things will flow better, if the anime goes to a competent studio and staff. I also read a chunk of this arc in one go and I didn't really find it to go on for too long.

I haven't checked the spoilers for Kimetsu since I'm a chapter behind.
 

Tamil

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Every battle shounen is a bunch of asspulls or plot conveniences if you think about it, if you want to think of it that way xD. I'm personally enjoying this Kimetsu arc, I do agree that with an eventual anime, things will flow better, if the anime goes to a competent studio and staff. I also read a chunk of this arc in one go and I didn't really find it to go on for too long.

I haven't checked the spoilers for Kimetsu since I'm a chapter behind.
Toriko didn't have a bunch of asspulls, in fact it was very little or none since the mangaka foreshadows and takes the time to explain abilities. Anyway even if you're right that doesn't mean Kimetsu should get a pass.
 
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Mawara

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Did that interview even happen? I found it on the wiki page a long time ago and remembered that the sources didn't seem that credible.
... sure. It happened, if you BELIEVE that it happened!:cheez

Yeah, until you brought this up, I never thought about its credibility in this regard. I've read it many years in a german One PIece forum, and trusted the guy who put it online. So I wouldnt bet any money about its authenticity.
But my point still stands:
If anyone wants to create their own story, read/play/watch as much as possible!

And regarding Kimetsu no Yaiba:
*Put hands on her eyes*
I HAVENT READ THE LATEST CHAPTER YET!
 

Mankichi Togawa

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There was an interview to Toriyama this number, wasn't it?
 

cody

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Toriko didn't have a bunch of asspulls, in fact it was very little or none since the mangaka foreshadows. Anyway even if you're right that doesn't mean Kimetsu should get a pass.
I haven't read Toriko so I can't comment on that, but I find it hard to believe. I'm not saying anything should get a pass or anything, it was just an idea that popped up in my head.

Maybe I meant the asspull aspect as a general thing, since pretty much any battle shounen has a power system or some kinds of powers right off the bat and that's where the asspull aspect starts off and it's a continuous spiral, in my eyes. Does it prevent me from enjoying manga? not really, since it is manga.
 

De La Croissant

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I don't care about asspull as long as the dramatic context in which it is inserted is interesting. If you're going to cheat, at least do it in style. Now, when it's just a brief excuse to end a conflict, communicated through exposition or some shit like that, I get pissed.
 

101nemesis

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Wait a minute, Bleach and Toriko are two series lasting eight and sixteen respectively, while Black Clover lasts only three.

I understand your point of view, but you have chosen the wrong paraphernalia.

Bleach remained the third manga for sales of Jump for years before his collapse while Toriko was pushed only by the time the Jump deers a new replacement for Bleach.

Before the collapse, Bleach had a huge merchandasing behind it that lasted several years, how can you say the same thing about Black Clover if the commercialization has only recently started?

Wait at least a few years.

Otherwise it is not even said that Black Clover becomes the new Big, it could also be just a manga that sells well in the magazine.
Number of years is irrelevant.
The following is the usual pattern;
1. Manga starts
2. Gets popular and gets decent to good rank consistently
3. Magazine push (CPs, marketing, Vomic, Drama CV etc.) helps volume sales peak without anime
4. Anime announced which leads to some interest in the series
5. Anime airs and the series sales picks up. Number of years in this is irrelevant.
6. Anime constantly airs but series sales will not increase further or increase is very minimal meaning peak sales has been obtained. Number of years in this is irrelevant.
7. Anime continues but sales either remain constant for some more time or start dipping if the quality of the arcs start dipping. Number of years in this is irrelevant.
8. The manga could end here but many times, the anime ends first (No more new seasons)
9. Sales keep dipping if manga keeps going and then eventually manga either ends on its own or is cancelled

There are obvious exceptions to this but GENERALLY this is how it goes.

Step 6 is where BC is at right now. There was an increase in sales of around 30-50k which was visible clearly. But the sales increase is almost non-existent now. Look at the increase TPN is getting past month. THAT's a notable increase and it's still there. It's still impacting the volume sales.
Can BC increase more? Sure, plausible. But that would mean it needs to pull something really good outta its rear to generate more buzz. I don't see that happening. Unless you tell me there was something amazing that could be animated this season which will generate great buzz, I don't see another increase coming.
 

De La Croissant

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Just remembering that the buzz that made Neverland sales increase was not directly generated by the story. So, I think the series fits the group of exceptions you mentioned earlier.

Anyway, maybe with a movie, BC might improve. Who knows. If they want it to be the new Naruto, they will not give up so easily.
 

cody

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Just remembering that the buzz that made Neverland sales increase was not directly generated by the story. So, I think the series fits the group of exceptions you mentioned earlier.

Anyway, maybe with a movie, BC might improve. Who knows. If they want it to be the new Naruto, they will not give up so easily.
Yeah, I feel like they won't give up yet. They'll probably go at it for only one more year in full force though. They might have a season two planned already. A movie seems possible, but Pierrot might focus on Boruto movies instead, since they probably are more profitable.
 

ChocoBar9

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They're definitely not going to give up on BC. Its not a complete flop like Beelzebub or Medaka Box which did nothing to increase sales of their respective manga and its too young to pull the plug on it I mean it took Toriko three years for them to realized it wasn't meeting expectations but let's not repeat this discussion every time its sales get brought up.
 
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