Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2018] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[iceemperor]

I know we saw Toriko's manga sales decline as early as 2012 iirc but what about the TV ratings? The TV ratings weren't anywhere close to DB kai (I know expecting it to be on DB Kai's level is foolish but you get where I'm going with this. My memory with Toriko's TV rating is hazy, it started off like 8% then didn't it drop to like 5-6% quickly then doing like 4% at times? I felt like for a kids anime it would rarely utilize Shimabu's gags and would usually skip it or gloss through it. The anime never felt like a kids adaptation to Toriko, hell it didn't really give me that Toriko vibe, it felt like I was watching a heavily watered down version of One Piece. Basically it never really felt like it had it's own identity. The anime directing was super stale.

Toei could've handled the series a lot better, even when you look at lens of a children audience. Can't you also blame the disconnect with the anime & manga? I mean Toriko's manga was super violent, so maybe parents didn't want their kids buying the volumes? I remember seeing quite a bit of fujoshi art with characters like Toriko x Coco, Coco x Sunny & even Zebra x Komatsu so I don't agree with that. Of course, Toriko x Komatsu is there too and Shimabu would make gags out of that. While the fujoshi presence wasn't anywhere as big as say Haikyuu, it was still there to the point where the mangaka made gags out of it.

People had issues with the content itself when the exploration aspect was put aside during the cooking festival arc and didn't really start till like mid 2013. Toriko's manga sales decline was in 2012. I can't really see the argument for Toriko's content not catching on with people.

I believe that OP vibe as opposed to the distinct Toriko vibe was probably what the producers were going for to begin with. They were trying to sell it as something exciting like OP. That might definitely have backfired.

In regards to not catching on, speaking from an industry standpoint it definitely caught on as it did get to an eventual peak first print of 590k. However, if we look at it from the standpoint of the amount of push it got and the ideal goal of what Jump wanted it to be then we can say it simply failed to do so on its own merits as people were watching the show. Ratings did fall to 4% with an average range of 5-6%, which is good as I think pokemon was also doing in a similar range but those ratings have to transfer to other media mix projects. It did somewhat for the manga, somewhat for a video game but bombed for the movie. My view on ratings is that they're really not an entirely reliable measure of popularity. Heck, Heroaca has higher ratings than Pokemon so far this season but you can't really make an argument that Heroaca is more popular than Pokemon.

It regards to violence, I don't really think there is any problem with the violence. There have been even more violent things in Jump and there are and were complaints for the series in Jump. Heroaca has some crazy moments that are quite scary for kids and yet kids are some of the biggest groups that buy the manga.

 

[Tamil]

Toriko characters in general aren't really relatable though. A few exceptions maybe, big example such as Midora and his love for his mother may attract both genders and have an investment towards that character. When you look at Takeshi's first few chapters, the characters are relatable to elementary school students (both genders) which could explain why it did well. Admittedly, Takeshi's first bunkoban gave me more feels (Takeshi vs Bonchuu fight) than most of the fights in Toriko's entire run. Jump's age demographic changed a lot since those days...

A lot of Shimabu's character writing in Toriko had a lot of missed opportunities. For example, with Ichiryuu's death, we never saw how the heavenly kings were impacted by his death, iirc they didn't really seem to care despite being raised by them. Toriko had his mini-monologue at best probably. Then on the other hand, we get great character writing with someone like Midora. It just felt inconsistent so I didn't know whether to blame the editor or Shimabu (or both).

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 8, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 8, 2018 ---

It regards to violence, I don't really think there is any problem with the violence. There have been even more violent things in Jump and there are and were complaints for the series in Jump. Heroaca has some crazy moments that are quite scary for kids and yet kids are some of the biggest groups that buy the manga.

With Toriko the violence is really consistent. It's consistently super violent. I haven't seen anything in Heroaca being as violent as say Toriko vs Starjun, Tommyrod, Heralces, etc. Toriko's violence is reminiscent of the violence in Jump manga during the 80s like Fist of the north star/JoJo, you even sometimes see eyeballs falling off and/or brains/intestines. Having that sort of violence in the 2010s wont sit well with many parents.

Then again as you said, there has been more violent things in Jump but I would argue those were different times. In terms of violence I cant think of a lot of post 2000s series that are more violent than Toriko. (factoring how consistent it is as well)

 

[Mori takai]

Jump has changed the layout for the Fan day website

https://shonenjump-ten.com/vol3/fan.html

and the merchandise for 6 of the 12 series that will have fan days have been unlocked Next week will be Naruto,Katekyo Hitman reborn,Death Note,Prince of Tennis,Kuroko no Basket and Haikyu.

(Edit I'm hoping with so much spotlight these titles get into Jump Force)

 

[Mankichi Togawa]

They added Noah's Notes to volume 3 exhibition display.

LIVE!

 

[Mori takai]

I don't think anyone has posted the layout but if you are going to japan this month ( I'm leaving after tomorrow) here is the layout of the exhibition and since Noah's note has it own display, I would assume they would put it somewhere in the left side of the building.

 

[Mankichi Togawa]

I don't think anyone has posted the layout but if you are going to japan this month ( I'm leaving after tomorrow) here is the layout of the exhibition and since Noah's note has it own display, I would assume they would put it somewhere in the left side of the building.

It doesn't have its own room. It just is together with the titles without their own room like To Love-Ru or Mr.Fullswing.

 

[Mori takai]

It doesn't have its own room. It just is together with the titles without their own room like To Love-Ru or Mr.Fullswing.

Oh nvm I read your post wrong my bad I was shocked tho lol I was like "it got its own room ?!"

 

[Franz]

And? So jump will promote newer series with higher potential to find newer audiences as their new big series. This isn't new. We saw this with Toriko as well despite it selling nowhere near Bleach.

It's not an answer.
Haikyuu still remains the second series of Jump for sales ....

Yeah, because despite its decline its still a big franchise for them.

I do not understand, based on what you say then that is in decline?

Toriko was put ahead of Bleach as a pillar from 2011 despite Bleach selling 700k a volume, despite bleach still having its anime running, despite the fact that Bleach got a 5 page extended CP for the start of the final arc and it still being popular.
At the end of the day, all old series will lose sales after hitting their peak.

But this is not the topic, all the series are falling.

The point is that the positions for now are: One Piece, Haykyuu, My Hero Academy.

When Haykyuu is surpassed, then one can speak of decline.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 8, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 8, 2018 ---

The thing is however that a push doesn't kill a series. Toriko's chances of becoming that mega hit Jump wanted it to become weren't held back because of this big push because its TV ratings were quite good. It simply didn't catch on. I think its video game sales were quite good but its movie box office was abysmal. People were watching and reading it but simply didn't want to buy the volumes or go to the movie. Part of it might have to do with the character design as its not something fujoshi can latch onto though its not always true as All Might and Endeavor caught on. Heroaca itself didn't explode until the second season. All I can really say is that the content itself failed to make people catch on. As a fan this is sad to me as it was classic Jump battle shounen. BC can sort of be considered to be in Toriko's vein, which itself was in OP's vein. You can see how series after OP that are written with straight Jump battle shounen tend not to struggle recently. BC itself finally hit 300k in physical sales after 2 cours of the anime.

Toriko, however, lasted 8 years and 43 volumes, I would say that is a nice goal considering that many battle shonen do not reach that figure.

As I admit that the final was rushed and required at least a few more years of publication to make ends meet .....

 

[revo68]

Seems like a Jump related program will air today on NHK BS1 at 22:00 JST

Past manga artists will apparently make an appearance

 

[Tarot]

The Editing drama with Act-age is starting to get annoying. Makes me sad AA has now become a punching bag because some of the people want to spite FA with joke translations after they dropped it.

 

[101nemesis]

It's not an answer.
Haikyuu still remains the second series of Jump for sales ....

I do not understand, based on what you say then that is in decline?

Based on numbers? Second best selling series that's on a downward spiral.
This year, the highest selling Haikyuu!! Volume was 730k. Last year, year halfway, the highest selling volume was 860k. In 2016, halfway year mark, the highest selling volume was 950k. That's more than 200k decline in sales in two years.

But this is not the topic, all the series are falling.

The point is that the positions for now are: One Piece, Haykyuu, My Hero Academy.

When Haykyuu is surpassed, then one can speak of decline.

Haikyuu isn't surpassed by sales (although it's close to being overtaken by MHA but it is surpassed by the buzz generated around MHA and the attention MHA gets from other forms of media. That's nothing against HQ!!. MHA is just newer and therefore still being consumed by new people. So for WSJ, MHA is a more valuable title right now for them to push. That isn't to say HQ isn't gonna be treated well because it will be because its an important franchise that has a core fanbase.

If you still don't understand, then *shrugs*

 

[Franz]

Based on numbers? Second best selling series that's on a downward spiral.
This year, the highest selling Haikyuu!! Volume was 730k. Last year, year halfway, the highest selling volume was 860k. In 2016, halfway year mark, the highest selling volume was 950k. That's more than 200k decline in sales in two years.

It is not a test, now it is clear that because of the digital sales all the manga will sell less than in the past. Despite the decline when he comes out with My Hero Academy is always ahead of him for sales.

Haikyuu isn't surpassed by sales (although it's close to being overtaken by MHA but it is surpassed by the buzz generated around MHA and the attention MHA gets from other forms of media.

As for attention the Jump for now puts them on the same level ....

 

[sakuratt91]

@Ice King
Maybe Kimetsu has better sales than we thought.

Kimetsu sold 1,193,204 copies for 2017
Kimetsu sold 539.086 copies (Half Year 2018 - from Nov.2017 - May.2018)
Kimetsu has 2.500,000 copies sold including digital sales (from 1 month ago)

It seems that its digital sales make up a pretty large proportion (about 30%). I don't usually see other series announced their digital sales like Kimetsu did. The sales data we are following is probably out of date.

I remember Kimetsu had a huge votes in the first popularity poll. Its fan are dedicated. It's likely Kimetsu has good merchandise sales too.
I think EIC said about latest hits, Sorry for my bad English.

 

[Tamil]

@Ice King
Maybe Kimetsu has better sales than we thought.

Kimetsu sold 1,193,204 copies for 2017
Kimetsu sold 539.086 copies (Half Year 2018 - from Nov.2017 - May.2018)
Kimetsu has 2.500,000 copies sold including digital sales (from 1 month ago)

It seems that its digital sales make up a pretty large proportion (about 30%). I don't usually see other series announced their digital sales like Kimetsu did. The sales data we are following is probably out of date.

I remember Kimetsu had a huge votes in the first popularity poll. Its fan are dedicated. It's likely Kimetsu has good merchandise sales too.
I think EIC said about latest hits, Sorry for my bad English.

The fans are certainly dedicated but Kimetsu had one of the newer methods of popularity polls iirc. It used digital downloads as well.

 

[Heiji]

Kimetsu has 2.500,000 copies sold including digital sales (from 1 month ago)

Its 2,500,000 print (with digitial) and its worldwide number.

 

[OtterBrigade]

Its 2,500,000 print (with digitial) and its worldwide number.

aside from Japan where was it released a month ago? The English release was just this past week but I think I saw the French version has been released for a while now.

 

[101nemesis]

It is not a test, now it is clear that because of the digital sales all the manga will sell less than in the past. Despite the decline when he comes out with My Hero Academy is always ahead of him for sales.

I fail to see how an old series will have digital sales suddenly take over. It works for newer series that are building their fan base in the new market atmosphere but people who have been buying physical volumes of an older series wont just suddenly stop and go digital. That isn't how it usually works. You cant just throw in the 30% number in for every manga out there. It's not that easy.

As for attention the Jump for now puts them on the same level ....

MHA generates more buzz with the anime, with the upcoming movie, with the games etc. you name it. That's what Im talking about. WSJ will obviously put HQ and MHA in the front alongside OP because they are the other top 2 sellers. But this WHOLE conversation started because you couldn't understand why WSJ editor mentioned MHA, TPN and KnY and not HQ as their big series. I'm just giving you reasons why he probably did.

 

[MangAniMY]

Seems like a Jump related program will air today on NHK BS1 at 22:00 JST

Past manga artists will apparently make an appearance

I watched it, don't understand most of it, but it was nice seeing veteran mangaka and editors getting interviewed

there were Go Nagai,
Hiroshi Motomiya[Otoko Ipiki ] ,
Osamu Akimoto[Kochikame],
Takashi Shimada[Kinnikuman], Tsunomaru[Midori no Makibou],
Masanomori Marita[Rookies],
Takeshi Konomi[Prince of Tennis]
Yoshinori Kobayashi[Gomanism sengen], Yoichi Takahashi[Captain Tsubasa],
Yusei Matsui[Assassination Classroom],
Shinji Hiramatsu,
Hisashi Eguchi [Stop hibari-kun],
another mangaka who I missed but he did a comedy manga,
and a special appearance by Keiji Amatsuka finding out his manga [Tanaka Seiji] is getting serialized,


The editor are shown, but the one interviewed(and I know) were Hitoki Goto, Norie Nobuhiko, Kazuhiko Torishima, and Naito... Nakano just got a cameo unless I missed his interview



Viz media was also shown with a few people talking


I got pictures but maybe later

Spoiler: shameless self promotion

I'm making a twitter thread though

Edit: forgot to mention, Bakuman was also used quite a lot

 

[Mankichi Togawa]

I watched it, don't understand most of it, but it was nice seeing veteran mangaka and editors getting interviewed

there were Go Nagai,
Hiroshi Motomiya[Otoko Ipiki ] ,
Osamu Akimoto[Kochikame],
Takashi Shimada[Kinnikuman], Tsunomaru[Midori no Makibou],
Masanomori Marita[Rookies],
Yoshinori Kobayashi[Gomanism sengen], Yoichi Takahashi[Captain Tsubasa],
Yusei Matsui[Assassination Classroom],
Shinji Hiramatsu,
Hisashi Eguchi [Stop hibari-kun],
another mangaka who I missed but he did a comedy mangaka,
and a special appearance by Keiji Amatsuka finding out his manga [Tanaka Seiji] is getting serialized,


The editor are shown, but the one interviewed(and I know) were Hitoki Goto, Norie Nobuhiko, Kazuhiko Torishima, and Naito... Nakano just got a cameo unless I missed his interview



Viz media was also shown with a few people talking


I got pictures but maybe later

Spoiler: shameless self promotion

I'm making a twitter thread though

Edit: forgot to mention, Bakuman was also used quite a lot

The legend Motomiya was there? One of these days I should do the transcription of volume 1. EVERY MANGAKA FROM THAT VOLUME (except Toriyama and Hojo) metioning Motomiya and Otoko Ippiki as their inspiration.

Go Nagai there is also interesting, considering Shueisha always bans Mazinger Z (and Shaman King) from all Jump stuff.

 

[MangAniMY]

The legend Motomiya was there? One of these days I should do the transcription of volume 1. EVERY MANGAKA FROM THAT VOLUME (except Toriyama and Hojo) metioning Motomiya and Otoko Ippiki as their inspiration.

Go Nagai there is also interesting, considering Shueisha always bans Mazinger Z (and Shaman King) from all Jump stuff.

Go Nagai was literally the first mangaka to be interviewed after Hiroki Goto, Jump/Shueisha might have a say in the production, but I think it is mostly up to the producers of the documentary