Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Jovan]

Still no new series preview? Seriously?

 

[Mammo]

I hope the mangaka for that series returns with a writer next time.

they actually have an ongoing new series rn (although it will end when the anime ends)

MangaDex

Read comics and manga online at MangaDex, with high quality images and support creators and translators!

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and speaking of needing a writer, didn't you guys like their new oneshot? I've seen people spam this on other sites more than you guys spam Galaxy Gangs

MangaDex

Read comics and manga online at MangaDex, with high quality images and support creators and translators!

mangadex.org

 

[Jovan]

and speaking of needing a writer, didn't you guys like their new oneshot? I've seen people spam this on other sites more than you guys spam Galaxy Gangs

MangaDex

Read comics and manga online at MangaDex, with high quality images and support creators and translators!

mangadex.org

A very predictable oneshot, but visually stunning and emotional. Goes a full circle but leaves some space for a possible serialization (which sadly never happened). I find Kimetsu no Aima to be a massive waste of his artistic skills.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Odd thought I've had, Haikyu has, in being so high-quality and popular, inadvertently created a monopoly where it's almost impossible for any new sports manga to successfully compete with it.

 

[Serinox]

That's a bit like saying it is almost impossible for new battle adventure manga to succeed because OP exists. It is not as hard as one might think, but the quality of sports series recently just wasn't that good, combined with HZ also being a sport series and thus meaning a third sport series would need to nail it really good to justify sticking around. Now that HZ is gone, survival might be easier.

 

[101nemesis]

Odd thought I've had, Haikyu has, in being so high-quality and popular, inadvertently created a monopoly where it's almost impossible for any new sports manga to successfully compete with it.

This is such a wrong statement. HQ got popular despite KNB being at its peak. And KNB at its peak was as popular, if not more, as HQ. You just need a well done series that readers can get into.
By this logic, no battle manga should've survived aside from OP because of how well OP did.

Welcome back brother

Not really back. Just gonna be lurking every now and then for the next month.

 

[Jovan]

That's a bit like saying it is almost impossible for new battle adventure manga to succeed because OP exists. It is not as hard as one might think, but the quality of sports series recently just wasn't that good, combined with HZ also being a sport series and thus meaning a third sport series would need to nail it really good to justify sticking around. Now that HZ is gone, survival might be easier.

Yep. I actually hated or found meh every single non-sumo sports manga after Haikyuu (besides Shuudan, which also did the best in sales out of all the sport flops I believe). And Jump recognized that and kept it around a lot, so cant even blame Shueisha there when the magazine readers rejected it.

I am not going to count Cross Manage here because it was a mix of things and too Slice of Life until the last few chapters to be called a sport manga only.

 

[Tamil]

I don't think it will get another boost honestly.

Why?

 

[Stivie]

Yep. I actually hated or found meh every single non-sumo sports manga after Haikyuu (besides Shuudan, which also did the best in sales out of all the sport flops I believe). And Jump recognized that and kept it around a lot, so cant even blame Shueisha there when the magazine readers rejected it.

I am not going to count Cross Manage here because it was a mix of things and too Slice of Life until the last few chapters to be called a sport manga only.

Let's see if there are any known mangaka recommending beast children or Double taisei to see if one of them is saved.

But as has been said, there is no point in blaming shuesha or the editor in chief, as some people do if mangaka can't make a story that appeals to the public.

 

[Scruffy8642]

Yep. I actually hated or found meh every single non-sumo sports manga after Haikyuu (besides Shuudan, which also did the best in sales out of all the sport flops I believe). And Jump recognized that and kept it around a lot, so cant even blame Shueisha there when the magazine readers rejected it.

I am not going to count Cross Manage here because it was a mix of things and too Slice of Life until the last few chapters to be called a sport manga only.

Can honestly say I don’t think we’ve had a single good sports series since HZ in 2014 aside from Yoko’s works (Straighten Up, Shuudan), and it’s probably my favourite genre, so I always give them a good try. They’ve all shot themselves in the foot with poor development of their supporting casts, and its especially a problem with the large-team sports.

The way Haikyu introduced Karasuno was so damn smart in hindsight. Establish a rival to-be teammate and end on a hook in the first chapter, then have a few of the team members missing due to drama to create tension and give the introduced characters time to get established. Then the first year practice match to introduce two more, proper practice match for rivals, then the drama with Noya and Asahi, then getting a coach. Instead of just going “here’s 10 characters who are gonna get ignored until it’s their turn in 20 chapters by which time I’ll be cancelled”, it methodically introduces them all in small groups while hinting at what’s to follow, and not starving you of the sports action despite not jumping straight into a match. We basically have 8 well established characters by the 7th chapter with quite a few more to come in the next 10, by which point the series is now grounded and free to do whatever it wants action or story wise really.

Whereas a recent example like Beast Children only has the MC, and very shallow development of the captain by 10 because it ditched the rival and screwed around. Those 7 chapters in HQ are absolutely packed with content, whereas for BCh I’m not even sure I could recall the first 10 chapters since so little happened. What it probably should have done was condense the first 2 chapters into 1 (let’s be honest, the end of the 2nd chapter shocked a lot of people and would have been a great hook), then have MC join the team’s training session but stay back late with a few of the harder working members or have a small 2v2/3v3 intro thing in the 2nd and 3rd chapters to show off his dashing, further develop those guys in the 4th while introducing the idea of Rugby 7’s, get the remaining members in the 5th, train and develop them in the 6th and 7th, start the match in the 8th and introduce rivals ect ect and bam, you got a solid cast in no time. Instead it’s got practically nothing at double the length. It’s not even a matter of pacing, just not wasting time.

HZ was similar, introducing the main 3 in the first chapter, training, then going on to a quick tournament to show off the action and meet rivals, then introducing a few more before another tournament and even more rivals, and then even more teammates afterwards before returning to old rivals again. It wasn’t until chapter 40-ish that we had the whole main cast introduced, but that was fine because it still had a solid and large enough cast introduced early to keep it going. Recent sport series seem to forget that they’re nothing without their characters. No point highlighting how cool the sport is when there’s no reason for us to care.

 

[Jovan]

Can honestly say I don’t think we’ve had a single good sports series since HZ in 2014 aside from Yoko’s works (Straighten Up, Shuudan), and it’s probably my favourite genre, so I always give them a good try. They’ve all shot themselves in the foot with poor development of their supporting casts, and its especially a problem with the large-team sports.

The way Haikyu introduced Karasuno was so damn smart in hindsight. Establish a rival to-be teammate and end on a hook in the first chapter, then have a few of the team members missing due to drama to create tension and give the introduced characters time to get established. Then the first year practice match to introduce two more, proper practice match for rivals, then the drama with Noya and Asahi, then getting a coach. Instead of just going “here’s 10 characters who are gonna get ignored until it’s their turn in 20 chapters by which time I’ll be cancelled”, it methodically introduces them all in small groups while hinting at what’s to follow, and not starving you of the sports action despite not jumping straight into a match. We basically have 8 well established characters by the 7th chapter with quite a few more to come in the next 10, by which point the series is now grounded and free to do whatever it wants action or story wise really.

Whereas a recent example like Beast Children only has the MC, and very shallow development of the captain by 10 because it ditched the rival and screwed around. Those 7 chapters in HQ are absolutely packed with content, whereas for BCh I’m not even sure I could recall the first 10 chapters since so little happened. What it probably should have done was condense the first 2 chapters into 1 (let’s be honest, the end of the 2nd chapter shocked a lot of people and would have been a great hook), then have MC join the team’s training session but stay back late with a few of the harder working members or have a small 2v2/3v3 intro thing in the 2nd and 3rd chapters to show off his dashing, further develop those guys in the 4th while introducing the idea of Rugby 7’s, get the remaining members in the 5th, train and develop them in the 6th and 7th, start the match in the 8th and introduce rivals ect ect and bam, you got a solid cast in no time. Instead it’s got practically nothing at double the length. It’s not even a matter of pacing, just not wasting time.

HZ was similar, introducing the main 3 in the first chapter, training, then going on to a quick tournament to show off the action and meet rivals, then introducing a few more before another tournament and even more rivals, and then even more teammates afterwards before returning to old rivals again. It wasn’t until chapter 40-ish that we had the whole main cast introduced, but that was fine because it still had a solid and large enough cast introduced early to keep it going. Recent sport series seem to forget that they’re nothing without their characters. No point highlighting how cool the sport is when there’s no reason for us to care.

The Haikyuu analysis is really spot on, and kind of draws parallels to Kiben Gakuha, Yotsuya-senpai no Kaidan (the mangaka's previous work), which relied just on being "fresh" in the detective genre, but it failed in characterization and side characters development.

Also Beast Children's twist was fairly known right away, since in the previews the MC and the rival had different jerseys (which also happened on MangaPlus, only colored). Which is a dumb decision by Shueisha, but hey.

 

[Blink22]

Nak at the wheel

 

[Mammo]

Just curious, do you guys consider Ultra Battle Satellite (or other Baki clones Tough/Kengan Ashura/Kenka Kagyou) a sport manga? I mean it's technically MMA

 

[tirakai]

Personally I consider fighting sport to be their own somewhat separate in-between genre, since they're essentially halfway between sports and battle. Sumo, boxing, MMA, wrestling, are all a bit different in terms of appeal than basketball, volleyball, tennis, etc (except for those parts of Prince of Tennis where they literally just pelt each other with the ball).

Like how Soma is a essentially a sports manga but also not quite entirely one.

 

[pamuchi]

Man arrested for allegedly illegally uploading popular 'One Piece' on manga-viewing website

A 37-year-old man was arrested Saturday for allegedly engaging in the management of an illegal manga-viewing website that hosted copies of 'One Piece.'

www.japantimes.co.jp

I don't think we will have more tocs in the future. Two days ago some dude uploaded on Twitter spoilers for CSM and kny (seems he was same guy who leaked the toc).

 

[Halloween]

Man arrested for allegedly illegally uploading popular 'One Piece' on manga-viewing website

A 37-year-old man was arrested Saturday for allegedly engaging in the management of an illegal manga-viewing website that hosted copies of 'One Piece.'

www.japantimes.co.jp

I don't think we will have more tocs in the future. Two days ago some dude uploaded on Twitter spoilers for CSM and kny (seems he was same guy who leaked the toc).

People have been arrested in the past. They're always replaced by new leakers, though.

 

[tirakai]

There'll always be leaks and scans earlier than official release, since the magazine needs to be shipped out to shops early so that it can come out on time.

They might manage to make it come out a little later like what's happened before but there'll always be some people who get it early, whether through broken street dates, being friends with delivery drivers, etc.

 

[LuckyJim]

Every time someone gets arrested for uploading manga people say we won't get early releases or ToC leaks anymore, but nothing ever changes. Piracy is like a Hydra, get rid of one, another one pops up.

 

[TheEroSennin]

Can't they just post the leaks on any anonymous website ? Shueisha wont be able to know which store leaked it

 

[Rain Spectre]

Can honestly say I don’t think we’ve had a single good sports series since HZ in 2014 aside from Yoko’s works (Straighten Up, Shuudan), and it’s probably my favourite genre, so I always give them a good try. They’ve all shot themselves in the foot with poor development of their supporting casts, and its especially a problem with the large-team sports.

The way Haikyu introduced Karasuno was so damn smart in hindsight. Establish a rival to-be teammate and end on a hook in the first chapter, then have a few of the team members missing due to drama to create tension and give the introduced characters time to get established. Then the first year practice match to introduce two more, proper practice match for rivals, then the drama with Noya and Asahi, then getting a coach. Instead of just going “here’s 10 characters who are gonna get ignored until it’s their turn in 20 chapters by which time I’ll be cancelled”, it methodically introduces them all in small groups while hinting at what’s to follow, and not starving you of the sports action despite not jumping straight into a match. We basically have 8 well established characters by the 7th chapter with quite a few more to come in the next 10, by which point the series is now grounded and free to do whatever it wants action or story wise really.

Whereas a recent example like Beast Children only has the MC, and very shallow development of the captain by 10 because it ditched the rival and screwed around. Those 7 chapters in HQ are absolutely packed with content, whereas for BCh I’m not even sure I could recall the first 10 chapters since so little happened. What it probably should have done was condense the first 2 chapters into 1 (let’s be honest, the end of the 2nd chapter shocked a lot of people and would have been a great hook), then have MC join the team’s training session but stay back late with a few of the harder working members or have a small 2v2/3v3 intro thing in the 2nd and 3rd chapters to show off his dashing, further develop those guys in the 4th while introducing the idea of Rugby 7’s, get the remaining members in the 5th, train and develop them in the 6th and 7th, start the match in the 8th and introduce rivals ect ect and bam, you got a solid cast in no time. Instead it’s got practically nothing at double the length. It’s not even a matter of pacing, just not wasting time.

HZ was similar, introducing the main 3 in the first chapter, training, then going on to a quick tournament to show off the action and meet rivals, then introducing a few more before another tournament and even more rivals, and then even more teammates afterwards before returning to old rivals again. It wasn’t until chapter 40-ish that we had the whole main cast introduced, but that was fine because it still had a solid and large enough cast introduced early to keep it going. Recent sport series seem to forget that they’re nothing without their characters. No point highlighting how cool the sport is when there’s no reason for us to care.

This was probs the best written deconstruction of why so many modern spoken end up falling flat on their face. Kudos. I will note that the act of using rugby was also going to be an uphill battle with reader acceptance, given how many people you'd need to introduce just to get a full-ish idea of the field.

I think the thing Beast Children should've done is emphasize the "protagonists go to two teams angle". That would've had issues, but at the very least it would've been interesting and enough of a hook that readers would've had a higher chance of paying attention.